The Syrian Civil War Thread

"Limited scope intervention," my left ass cheek.

You throw missiles at a country, it's an act of war, nothing more or less. The U.S. should definitely heed the UN's warning about escalation of violence.

By limited I suppose an oversimplified but accurate-enough picture would be the US making a mess and not cleaning it up. I guess Ban calculated that it was pretty clear nobody is going to bother with cleaning Syria up, so there's no point adding more fuel to the fire.

So, apparently we need to bomb the hell out of Syria to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on Assads chemical weapons.

We are not putting troops on the ground. We are going to be bombing them from range, be it up in the sky or floating at sea. I'm sure that Assad is protecting his stockpiles. The Rebels are being supported by Al-Quaeda. We don't intend to attack the Rebels.

Assad knows these weapons are powerful, he's going to have his military guarding them. We go in and bomb his military, then who will guard those weapons to ensure terrorists don't get them? The Rebels? They are being supported by the terrorists, so can we honestly expect them not to pass some their way in gratitude for their help?

Mr. X said:

So, apparently we need to bomb the hell out of Syria to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on Assads chemical weapons.

We are not putting troops on the ground. We are going to be bombing them from range, be it up in the sky or floating at sea. I'm sure that Assad is protecting his stockpiles. The Rebels are being supported by Al-Quaeda. We don't intend to attack the Rebels.

Assad knows these weapons are powerful, he's going to have his military guarding them. We go in and bomb his military, then who will guard those weapons to ensure terrorists don't get them? The Rebels? They are being supported by the terrorists, so can we honestly expect them not to pass some their way in gratitude for their help?

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in a nutshell...

honestly why should america interfere with other countries problems they will be the reason for next world war I tell ya'

chuckleslucifer said:

in a nutshell...

honestly why should america interfere with other countries problems they will be the reason for next world war I tell ya'

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I feel the same way. We should stay out of it. I know there's bloodshed right now but if we try to step in militarily it could cause more in the long term I feel. The terrorists supporting the rebels will grab a hold of the Chemical weapons that weren't blown up in the chaos and use them against each other after Assad is taken out if not against Europe, Israel, and the United States itself (likely Israel as it's their closest target). Actually I think it's suicidal of Israel to be supporting these airstrikes... they will be attacked either by Assad's force as retribution, or by the Al Qaeda affiliated rebels at a later date...either way I don't see a win for them if this is to happen.
Now Russia is also an issue, as an attack on Syria could cause them to attack at us for hitting their ally...remember Syria is to Russia as Israel is the US.

Magmaruby and Aquasapphire said:

I feel the same way. We should stay out of it. I know there's bloodshed right now but if we try to step in militarily it could cause more in the long term I feel. The terrorists supporting the rebels will grab a hold of the Chemical weapons that weren't blown up in the chaos and use them against each other after Assad is taken out if not against Europe, Israel, and the United States itself (likely Israel as it's their closest target). Actually I think it's suicidal of Israel to be supporting these airstrikes... they will be attacked either by Assad's force as retribution, or by the Al Qaeda affiliated rebels at a later date...either way I don't see a win for them if this is to happen.
Now Russia is also an issue, as an attack on Syria could cause them to attack at us for hitting their ally...remember Syria is to Russia as Israel is the US.

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Yeah and by another military jumping into the fray only more will die troops shooting civilians because they were "armed" and "threatening" them by waving their hands screaming for help but they cant take "chances" and it was a "mistake" and all that other crap soldiers are robots they are told to shoot when to shoot not to question when ordered and to feel no remorse at the time even if they no full well what or who they are shooting.

~Peace

The odd's of Russia attacking are slim, however Putin has said he'd be sending AA systems to Syria should we attack. He could end up sending more equipment as well.

And people think the cold war ended a couple decades ago. It hasn't, some players just changed and a few more got added.

Edit - Fox News right now, Cruz says that we should force a UN vote, and if China and Russia vote No then we should move to sell F-16's to Taiwan and start work on establishing missile defense systems in Europe. Brilliant idea - Provoke them, give them reason to throw even more support to Syria.

Mr. X said:

The odd's of Russia attacking are slim, however Putin has said he'd be sending AA systems to Syria should we attack. He could end up sending more equipment as well.

And people think the cold war ended a couple decades ago. It hasn't, some players just changed and a few more got added.

Edit - Fox News right now, Cruz says that we should force a UN vote, and if China and Russia vote No then we should move to sell F-16's to Taiwan and start work on establishing missile defense systems in Europe. Brilliant idea - Provoke them, give them reason to throw even more support to Syria.

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Which is why Ted Cruz is a looney. We'd be staring down WWIII if he were president.

I, personally, have been war weary for many years now. And am against the whole idea of throwing gasoline into the fire. Yes it's abhorrent that chemical weapons were used. But conventional weapons used at the outset kills just as well and gruesome, yet we didn't try to mediate any transition or diplomacy.

Still the idea going through congress is more of a half-measure than anything. Even then nobody talks about the huge refugee crisis that resulted from this civil war which already is showing signs of destabilizing Lebanon, and Jordanian infrastructure starting to get stretched to its limits absorbing the Syrian refugees.

So yeah, if the resolution passes (which at best will limit the engagement to 60-90 days of no fly zones and firing cruise missiles) we get dragged in, look meddling in an already complicated conflict and basically don't alter much of the stalemate between the two sides.

Sad part is that Kerry meant that comment as a joke. He didn't think anyone would take it seriously, but Russia decided to do so and turn it into a legitimate proposal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/michelle-obama-syria_n_3896436.html


HAHAHA, oh man, even Obama's own wife thinks it's a bad idea.

I suppose Russia strong-armed Syria into opening talks about giving up their chemical weapons. Maybe Russia is going on a big PR offensive in preparation for the Olympics or they didn't want to see one of their trading partner fall to a US-lead military attack and made a deal to sell Syria more conventional weapons (which, let's face it, are just as deadly to civilians as sarin) so that the West would be satisfied.

Or maybe Russia wanted to stop the violence and unnecessary killing and help bring peace to the Middle East. Haha, I'm such a joker.

The regime /is/ one of Russia's biggest arms clients. But the PR offensive for the Olympics is an interesting point for me. I wonder if there are other things Russia might be doing along that line?

But perhaps this is Russia reasserting its influence in the Middle East? Perhaps not - Russia doesn't seem to have a coherent policy concerning that. Some analysts say that Russia sees Syria as being vital to its Mediterranean policy, providing a naval base for oil exports. This makes sense. They also want to control oil pipelines to several Mediterranean countries, and so supporting the regime that they know is friendly to them and has been doing business with them for decades should be part of the mix as well.

When Russia says something like "the Syrian question should be answered by Syrians", we would be wiser than to take that with a grain of salt. Not everybody supports the rebels, and apparently not the urban commercial class in Syria's big cities. It's easy to see why they would fear a rebel victory, although I don't see why they'd shy away from a political compromise that protects their interests. Big business is an important part of civil society, and is important to the support of any regime, even our own. Assad and the Baath Party are not working alone, bending everybody to their will.

They're probably calculating what would be more stable at this stage - keeping the regime as is (through a victory maybe) after all this turmoil, or a political resolution. Assad isn't important in and of himself. If Russia can get what they want without him being there, he can leave the picture.

The following are very good articles that informed this post. The first one is especially refreshing in the midst of whitewashing by Western (American) public sentiment and Americentrism.

http://carnegie.ru/2013/05/30/russia-s-middle-east-gambit/g7ml
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/05/20/for-russia-syria-is-not-in-the-middle-east/


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To lighten the mood somewhat:

I think it's obvious now that part of Putin's plan is to take a jab at the Obama Administration. The administration builds up the naval presence in the Mediterranean. Check. Obama asks for congressional approval to begin a swift bombing campaign of vital targets to Assad's Government. Check. France/Hollande is on board for intervention in Syria, to quote-unquote "punish Syria".

Essentially, they're an inch away from war, and Putin swoops in at the eleventh hour to change up the entire situation by adding the proposal allowing the UN investigators to confiscate the alleged chemical weapons in order to avert a strike, which now shifts a lot of the heat to the Obama administration. I can almost hear the "Obama gave in to the soviets" chants from the far-right wing. It could very very damning for Obama's foreign policy, depending on what we do now, and it makes John Kerry look bad/even worse in the eyes of the public.

Putin is a BAMF isn't he XD Dang, statesmanship at its finest. Speeding up the erosion of American influence one step at a time. But in the spirit of multilateralism, he did do the right thing, as Syria only trusts Russia to carry out such a plan and we'd expect the great powers to be on the same page. Very well played.

BlahISuck said:

Putin is a BAMF isn't he XD Dang, statesmanship at its finest. Speeding up the erosion of American influence one step at a time. But in the spirit of multilateralism, he did do the right thing, as Syria only trusts Russia to carry out such a plan and we'd expect the great powers to be on the same page. Very well played.

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And Kerry/Obama/The UN played right into the whole thing, hook, line, and sinker. So the Kremlin is totally secure and on the offensive whereas Washington barely has a clue about what the next plan of action is. Oy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html?hp&_r=2&

You. Putin is speaking to you.

Edit: Ouch. That last paragraph.

BlahISuck said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html?hp&_r=2&

You. Putin is speaking to you.

Edit: Ouch. That last paragraph.

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Hahahahaha oh the irony of Putin dropping the "we're all created equal" bit there at the end.

With regards to the policy on Syria though, Putin did throw in some tidbits, especially about the future of the United Nations, and how to make sure that it doesn't go the way of the League Of Nations. The process needs to be honored, and he basically warned/took a shot at Kerry & Obama in the process. I do honestly think Obama and Putin could really work together to thaw some of the ice on our mutual relationship, and start acting like allies again. I liked the bit about how the United States & Russia worked together to defeat the Nazis. We are better together as allies than we ever were separately.