Black People in Pokemon

Firstly, this thread is getting alot of comments. I'm off for two seconds and there are 10 more posts.

Secondly, PiPVoda I never said it was racist I said it was CLOSE to Racist. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNYTp0I14b8
Now don't tell me you saw that coming. Most people would have assumed that. It's because those sort of things have been imprinted into our minds by society.

^You were gone for like an hour there bud...and what is the problem with a thread having many posts? That's just people doing what they're supposed to on a forum -Posting their opinions and discussing ideas.

But yeah, let's try and get back on topic:

Was there a Hispanic person in Pokemon? xD

ChrisTom said:

Firstly, this thread is getting alot of comments. I'm off for two seconds and there are 10 more posts.

Secondly, PiPVoda I never said it was racist I said it was CLOSE to Racist. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNYTp0I14b8
Now don't tell me you saw that coming. Most people would have assumed that. It's because those sort of things have been imprinted into our minds by society.

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Sadly, you're right.

In a way, I'm kind of glad that we don't have black character in the games. I doubt that Sugimori could design a black character without it either looking like a palette-swap of a white character or like some kind of offensive caricature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BleuVII
Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects.

And the best way to handle the subject is to not use the terminology at all. A black person living in America is an American. Even immigrants should be refered to as Americans.

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I agree with you. Even if Sugimori wanted to put a black person in the pokemon games, it just wouldn't come out right more than likely.

and all blacks in America are American like you said. That's the term I use and it's the term others should use too.

Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects. And this thread just proves it. It almost always devolves into battles about which terms to use, rather than actually discussing the topic. Be careful of that.

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We were barely discussing which terms to use. In fact it only just popped up a few posts before yours. Actually, I don't even know why this thread is still continuing!

@ .EJ: no I don't think so, and if there was he/she wouldn't be called 'hispanic' because that is a term only used in the USA (if I'm right).

.EJ said:

Was there a Hispanic person in Pokemon? xD

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Juan is the only one that I can recall that is remotely Hispanic. Though it's mostly because of his English name.

Ludicolo is a Hispanic Pokemon though.

I've just assumed like what most people are saying because the game is made in Japan, most characters are Japanese based.
I assume that if the game was made in a country where there are a lot of African people, then there would be more African based characters?
That's all I'm saying.

Yusshin said:

The Japanese are huge nationalists. If you're not Japanese, they look at you scornfully as if you're inferior. The funny thing is, a lot of them try to look more occidental with operations and hair dye, contact lenses, etc. 1/2 of them don't know what they want lol

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Captain Riolu said:

Most characters in anime seem Caucasian. The way Sugimori's art is, it's also hard to portray them as Asian without looking somewhat stereotypical (like Brock).

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I'm white, American, and I lived in Japan. I had maybe 5 or 6 bad experiences there in a year. The Japanese people I met were flattered I came to their country and wanted to learn about it or curious about me and my country or just indifferent. Most were indifferent. But, as I said, I'm white and American and those made it a lot easier for me.

Young people in Japan are a lot more open and accepting than some, I repeat, some of the older population. They don't look down on other people. They're not overly racist or xenophobic. It's just that the ones who are (like the ultra-nationalists) are very vocal about it.

Also, the people in Pokemon are supposed to be Asian. It's just that people from white-majority areas think they look white because that's their cultural context. When they want a character in Pokemon (or elsewhere) to look white they usually do something to make them stand out like give them a more squarish jaw or blond hair. Japanese people don't portray themselves as squinty eyed or whatever stereotype people in the West associate with them.

PiPVoda said:

@ .EJ: no I don't think so, and if there was he/she wouldn't be called 'hispanic' because that is a term only used in the USA (if I'm right).

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And what would you rather call us?

Spanish? That refers to somebody from Spain. There are diverse countries that speak Spanish, collectively the people are called Hispanics. The only thing that comes to mind is "latino".

Scarf said:

Also, the people in Pokemon are supposed to be Asian. It's just that people from white-majority areas think they look white because that's their cultural context. When they want a character in Pokemon (or elsewhere) to look white they usually do something to make them stand out like give them a more squarish jaw or blond hair. Japanese people don't portray themselves as squinty eyed or whatever stereotype people in the West associate with them.

Spoiler:

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Squinty eyed, no. But there is no doubt that (alot of) Asian people have thinner eyes than other races.

You say Westerners stereotype, yet you give an example of Japanese stereotypes of Westerners (Lt. Surge). Not a good argument.

And they may not portray themselves as the stereotype, they sure are aware of it. Which is why Brock was replaced by Tracy.

And Fantina is a bad example. She is foreign only due to her habit of speaking English. She looks no "whiter" than Misty or Gardenia

The Pokémon world is based on Japanese regions, but it should be made clear that the Pokémon world is still a fictional world. There is no America, Africa, Asia, Minnesota (lol) or Japan for that matter. Just Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh, and therefore, these discussions on races are moot, since the only people who can say what races should exist in the story are the creators of this orginal, fictional world. A world of which we've only seen such a small part of, really, so it's not unreasonable for the people to be mostly the same color.

That said, the most basic reasons for the lack of diversity would be because it is based on Japan (even though it isn't technically Japan), and the fact that the focus of the franchise is the Pokémon themselves, and not the aspects that make up the human population.

Going into these issues just complicates things, and in all honesty, if the creators made the conscious decision to include more people of other colors/races, we'd see much more discussions on the reasons why they did so, as well as why they chose to portray one race/color a certain way. It's all just so irrelevant to the much more preferred discussions on what our favorite Pokémon are, and what Pokémon are good for competitive battling...

The only racist people in this topic are the people who think this topic is racist just because it's a question about black people in Pokemon games. You are judging this topic differently than other topic that don't involve black people. That boys and girls, is racism.

So maybe you should all look at yourselves first before accusing other people of racism just because the topic involves black people.

And Black, colored, African whatever, I'll call them whatever the hell the want, like how anyone can call me white, Italian, or non colored.

OMG Super Mario Bros is racist because they don't have any mexican/afro-american/chinese character!!!
Blast haha, Pokemon is based in pokemons not in trainers, or Gold has protect Thyplosion for being attacked with Hydro Pump? The characters are only for the good sake of the games and really doesn't matter if they are from a specify coountry or group of people. Is a game and you should have fun with it, not think of it as a racist game. And yeah, Pokemon doesn't have black people because the programers don't do it, but that fact don't prevent that all people around the world enjoy their adventures with the Pocket Monsters and i think that the problem with Jynx color was stupid, is like if i protest because Ludicolo has a mexican hat :laugh:

PiPVoda said:

Lol, I use to think so too! But yeah the chances of a black person being in pkmn....ehh slim to zero. Remember Pokemon is from Japan, and there aren't any black people there, nor do I think most Japanese game developers would even put a black person in a game..(well excluding Sazh Katzroy from FFXIII). Though the color..or race of the people in pokemon don't matter to me! I'm black and in the games the player I'm playing doesn't cross my mind that often.. Who knows..maybe there will be a black person in pkmn black :D

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Sazh isn't the only Black guy in FF but yeah xD Pokemon White and Black now sound like a fight for slavery or something now thanks to this post xD Pokemon Black would be anti slavery and Pokemon White would be pro slavery xD weird image. Thanks.

ChrisTom said:

Wow. I didn't have a problem with this thread until I saw that. That is very close to racist.

That's like saying there aren't any Mexican people in England, or that there aren't any Japanese people in Canada.

That is just stupid. The only reason thay haven't put an African American (A term I hope you use more often) is because of the demographics. Most people in Japan are very light skinned just like most people in Canada and America are light skinned. This DOESN'T mean that all people there are like that PiPVoda. And there have been other races in the games (many people in the Sevii Islands were Polynesian-looking).

Anyways, interesting question. If I'm not mistaken there was an episode in the Anime that centered an African American.

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Ah. 13 year olds. Always fun. Black is socially acceptable and mostly used. Most Blacks prefer Black to African American actually. There are few Blacks and Mexicans in Japan and a little more Whites than Blacks and Mexicans. Japan surprisingly has more Japanese than anything (Shocker!) If you told me only 2 Black people total live in Japan I wouldn't doubt it...

Narcissus Secret said:

Actually, the point the raised is exactly why there are not Black people in Japan. Also, African American doesn't suffice, because there is a difference between that and what would be African Japanese. African American would only be referring to those in "America." Pokemon, however, is produced in Japan, where they don't really have that much black people(if any, really)

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Exactly African Americans are Blacks....but not all Blacks are African Americans....Can't put it better than this...

On subject does it really matter what color the skin of the characters are? Ash looks White but is Japanese (Asian), Brock looks Mexican/Black but is Japanese...Their are some that are French and what not I'm guessing they are White...But it doesn't matter really...It would be hard for artist to switch skin colors for every character and not mess something up...Whatever I'm done with this post.

ChrisTom said:

Wow. I didn't have a problem with this thread until I saw that. That is very close to racist.

That's like saying there aren't any Mexican people in England, or that there aren't any Japanese people in Canada.

That is just stupid. The only reason thay haven't put an African American (A term I hope you use more often) is because of the demographics. Most people in Japan are very light skinned just like most people in Canada and America are light skinned. This DOESN'T mean that all people there are like that PiPVoda. And there have been other races in the games (many people in the Sevii Islands were Polynesian-looking).

Anyways, interesting question. If I'm not mistaken there was an episode in the Anime that centered an African American.

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Please define the term racist.

If generalizing a country's population (in terms of colour) is considered racism for you, you're pretty soft. I'm sorry.

A term you hope I'll use more often? No. I'm sorry, black people are black, white people are white, asians are asians, rocks are rocks, grass is green. I'm not going to waste my time, stepping on glass for people who can't accept what they are. If it seems crude, you just have to learn to get over it. It's not like anyone's branding you with any offensive term.

So you're saying, the reason black people aren't in japanese games is because the majority of the population of Japan - where the game was initially directed - were light skinned? First, tell me why they didn't change their minds once they released later versions of Pokemon, knowingly releasing it to other countries of other races. Second, are you implying that just because characters from a game doesn't reflect a certain population, the game is bound for failure?

Polynesian looking? To me they looked like trainers. Seriously, it's a game, stop trying to fan it out to please everyone. There'll always be some bumps, but there'll always be smooth parts. If we can't get over the bumps, we won't have time to enjoy the good part.

Okay cool, so there was an episode of Pokemon with a black person in it. Yay, time to jump for joy! The colour of the person doesn't affect anything.

ChrisTom said:

I never said it was racist BleuVII. I said that saying "There are no Black people in Japan" sounded very close to being racist. I have looked it up in the CIA World Factbook, and about 0.5% of the people in Japan are African American. There ARE African Americans in Japan, just like there are Icelandic people in America. In fact I think there are a few Tobians in America too (look it up).

Anyways, this is about the games and Anime. I think the simple reason is because of simple Demographics. There is no sense aiming towards a demographic that isn't your key audience. I'm not saying that Pokemon is not meant for African Americans, but it was originally intended for young Japanese children, and the majority of Japan is Japanese.

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Hi I'm McDonalds. My target audience is everyone. Throughout my business, I've noticed certain areas are especially interested in my services. In that case, I'll just cut off every other restaurant in my chain except for the ones in these special areas, because people here love it the most. Tell me, does that statement make sense? You're saying the only reason the creators of the games cram in only Japanese people is because that's where the most economic success lies, and it's what their audience can relate to?

It may have initially been intended for Japanese children, but it's pretty damn clear that Pokemon is worldwide. With this, they obviously have the knowledge of other races playing their Japanese-oriented games.

Stop trying to fluff it up, saying the reason they don't include certain races is because Japan is where it counts the most.

ChrisTom said:

Firstly, I know it's not a big deal but can we call them Black or something like that? I understand if you have a friend and you refer to them as "African American" (like in Teletubbies) but we are talking about a Game.

Secondly, Jolene that statistic is accurate and what you just said was a bit silly. That's like saying because they moved to America from Mexico that there are no Mexicans in America. There are plenty of African Americans who moved to Japan from where ever, and had children who would then be official Japanese citizens.

I've seen Black people portrayed in Manga and Anime before (If I'm not mistaken there is a character from Hinata Hotel who is Black). I am almost positive there are a few episodes in the Pokemon Anime with that demographic. My note: Stop taking notice of such insignificant trivia. You really must have time to go out of your way, just to research whether Japanese people use a brown pencil crayon once in a while.


EDIT: I just saw your post Porygon-Z and I have to agree. They aren't meant to be Caucasian, but Asian. The fact of the matter is there are very few Black people in Japan, so they are going to show very few in the Pokemon series. Said and Done.

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Bolded and corrected your mistakes. Stop referring to all black people as "African American". First of all, not everyone is from America. Second of all, not every person of colour emigrated from Africa.

The pokemon creators are racist!!!!!!!

*Charizard* said:

The pokemon creators are racist!!!!!!!

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This Charizard below doesn't agree with you.

DarkAlucard said:

OMG Super Mario Bros is racist because they don't have any mexican/afro-american/chinese character!!!
Blast haha, Pokemon is based in pokemons not in trainers, or Gold has protect Thyplosion for being attacked with Hydro Pump? The characters are only for the good sake of the games and really doesn't matter if they are from a specify coountry or group of people. Is a game and you should have fun with it, not think of it as a racist game. And yeah, Pokemon doesn't have black people because the programers don't do it, but that fact don't prevent that all people around the world enjoy their adventures with the Pocket Monsters and i think that the problem with Jynx color was stupid, is like if i protest because Ludicolo has a mexican hat :laugh:

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Count my signature there!
the jynx problem was FAR MORE than just stupid
Y´see im Brazilian and I COULD NOT WATCH THE EPISODE WHERE BROCK IS KISSED BY A JYNX.......................I wish i could have the pleasure of laughting out loud out of that one, just to imagine....

BUT just think, the guy i just mentioned has in fact a little difference in ethnicity
Brock i mean, and just for the record, He´s a frickin´ gym leader OF KANTO aaaaand has an important part in both Red/Green/Blue/Yellow Gold/Silver/Crystal arc manga volumes and the anime itself, in wich he is one of the main caracters.

Coolboyman said:

This Charizard below doesn't agree with you.

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You, sir, are win.

I'd like to raise the point that, as the Pokémon world is fictional, it is perfectly possible that there is a different amount of diversity in skin colour. Hell, if you can have giant, fire breathing lizards, why is "no people of a particular racial origin" so unlikely?

Coolboyman said:

This Charizard below doesn't agree with you.

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And That´s Today´s Double Win!!!!
Coming Next in Fail Sportz....

Johtomasterandlover said:

Count my signature there!
the jynx problem was FAR MORE than just stupid
Y´see im Brazilian and I COULD NOT WATCH THE EPISODE WHERE BROCK IS KISSED BY A JYNX.......................I wish i could have the pleasure of laughting out loud out of that one, just to imagine....

BUT just think, the guy i just mentioned has in fact a little difference in ethnicity
Brock i mean, and just for the record, He´s a frickin´ gym leader OF KANTO aaaaand has an important part in both Red/Green/Blue/Yellow Gold/Silver/Crystal arc manga volumes and the anime itself, in wich he is one of the main caracters.

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I'm mexican but my skin tone is white, and because i'm not like all mexican stereotypes (more-like-brown-skin-tone) all call me "gringo or guero" (words here in Mexico to refer the people in USA). But i don't feel discriminated, i think that all has to be with the person himself, we come in all tones of colors and i don't discriminate anyone (i've a lot of friends and we never discusses about etnicies) but if you can laugh of yourself (i'm white so always i say that i'm a vampire with anemia haha) then you're lost, when Ludicolo comes in R/S/E all my friends say: What!!! They're making fun of us, a pokemon like a mexican dude come on. I, really laugh at it and say: Ey, a Mariachi Pokemon haha, that's the reason i think Jynx color was irrelevant, what's the problem for being black? I think that that's not a offense to anybody (of course, if you accept yourself).