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Pokemon is a disgusting universe...

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Oryx

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kylio_27 said:
You brought up stockholm syndrome before. How did the pokemon get to a conditioned state of compliance(for the most part)? They were living free, were captured, and then all of a sudden enjoy fighting?

And the true point in all of this, is that pokemon promotes senseless violence. If a "trainer" really cared for his/her pokemon, he wouldn't even expose them to such things.
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Once again, you're assuming that the Pokemon don't want to fight, or are incapable of making that choice themselves. They have been shown as capable, and you can only assume they don't want to fight if you assume they are identical to beings in our universe, which isn't a fair assumption to make considering they're a fantasy creature.

In addition, you could say "if a parent really cared for their child, they would never expose the child to crossing the street because it could be dangerous", or any other activity that may beat them up such as a contact sport. However, part of caring about a friend or caring for a dependent is that you allow them to a certain point to make their own decisions. There are times when trainers do recall a Pokemon when the Pokemon still wants to fight, because any further damage is irreparable. But they're not capturing the Pokemon to keep them away from fighting if that's what they want to do.
 

kylio_27

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In the world of Pokemon there are trainers people who battle with them, breeders people who train them and raises their Pokemon, abusers ones who try to harm pokemon (team rocket for example) and trainers who don't even battle their pokemon. So not all people battle their pokemon. The poke ball isn't bad for a pokemon it actually gives it time to rest. If you watched the anime than you will notice that when they are battling trainers will return their pokemon back to their pokeball if they are getting destroyed by another trainers pokemon. Sometimes they will forfeit because they don't wanna harm their pokemon anymore. Also, explain why everytime a trainer sends out a Pokemon it looks happy? They aren't forced to battle. In some of the earlier episodes Ash's pikachu wouldn't battle. If the pokemon didn't wanna battle then it wouldn't battle.
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Capturing pokemon is an initiation of force. Promoting pokemon fights is thoughtless and disgusting.

If you're gonna' domesticate a pokemon, fine, but most pokemon don't seem like the type to do so(or want to, considering they fight in defence of their freedom).
 

Oryx

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kylio_27 said:
Capturing pokemon is an initiation of force. Promoting pokemon fights is thoughtless and disgusting.

If you're gonna' domesticate a pokemon, fine, but most pokemon don't seem like the type to do so(or want to, considering they fight in defence of their freedom).
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Or they fight to test the mettle of the Trainer that wants to capture them, because Pokemon inherently enjoy fighting as part of their nature and expect for that to be utilized if they are defeated.

There's a whole storyline in the B/W manga where White doesn't allow her Tepig to battle and it's shown that the Tepig desperately wants to battle even though she's banned it because she's afraid of harming it. She eventually lets it battle and it's so much happier than when it wasn't fighting.
 

Skitty1

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kylio_27 said:
And the true point in all of this, is that pokemon promotes senseless violence. If a "trainer" really cared for his/her pokemon, he wouldn't even expose them to such things.
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Skitty1 said:
The trainer can't walk in grass without the risk of getting attacked so the trainers Pokemon partner doubles as his protection (like a dog or other companion). You would have known this if you actually played the game(s) or read a wiki or whatever.
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You have completely avoided what I just said. What I typed was true and you still refuse to listen to my sound argument.
 

kylio_27

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The trainer can't walk in grass without the risk of getting attacked so the trainers Pokemon partner doubles as his protection (like a dog or other companion).
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Perhaps those wild pokemon attack because they know the motives of these trainers, which is to capture them.

Even then, why capture them? Defend yourself from a pokemon(or animal) all you want, but why the need to take them?

In addition, you could say "if a parent really cared for their child, they would never expose the child to crossing the street because it could be dangerous", or any other activity that may beat them up such as a contact sport.
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Parents don't capture their children. Stupid comparison.
 
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Skitty1

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kylio_27 said:
Perhaps those wild pokemon attack because they know the motives of these trainers, which is to capture them.

Even then, why capture them? Defend yourself from a pokemon(or animal) all you want, but why the need to take them?
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Real animals attack without even being provoked it is instinct to them not due to any past experience. Remember the Crocodile Hunter? he was killed by a sting ray or some other damn fish but the sting ray had nothing against him it was just out of instinct.

The player is normally though to be 10 or 11 - what the hell do you expect them to do? buy a gun or some sword and shoot or mutilate Pokemon? come on.
 
ShinyUmbreon189

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? you make no sense and seem to not get what anybody is saying here. If you watch the anime some Pokemon free willingly go inside the Pokeball when they first see the trainer. A wild Pokemon battles a trainers Pokemon to see if the trainer is worth making a bond with. It's simple. If the trainer can't beat the wild pokemon than the Pokemon doesn't wanna battle for that trainer. If the trainer beats the Pokemon then they capture the pokemon and train it. Where are you getting they are forced to be caught. They wanna get caught and go on journeys with people. If I was a Pokemon I would want to battle Pokemon too. Also, when the trainer catches that Pokemon they take out their other Pokemon and send out the new Pokemon and POOF the pokemon is happy and playing with the other Pokemon and the trainer. The Pokemon want's to be with that trainer because the Pokemon knows the trainer is worthy of being the trainer of that Pokemon. If they didn't wanna be caught they would just run away or just attack the trainer. Your arguing over the same thing and nobody is agreeing with anything you are saying.
 

Oryx

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kylio_27 said:
Parents don't capture their children. Stupid comparison.
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Parents legally own their child until 18. If a child tries to run away and is found, they're forced to live with their parents unless the parent gives them the choice to leave. So it's not as different as you think, and watch your insults please.

In addition, that wasn't even the point of the comparison. The point is that parents can shelter children from everything the child wants to do because it may harm them, but they don't and it's not because they don't care. So to say trainers only expose Pokemon to fighting because they don't care is a fallacy, since that isn't even accurate in our universe, let alone another universe.

Edit: Umbreon makes a very valid point. Many of the Pokemon Ash owns choose to go with him, reject every other trainer and stand still and allow Ash to capture them. Because it's not slavery, it's companionship.
 

kylio_27

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Or they fight to test the mettle of the Trainer that wants to capture them, because Pokemon inherently enjoy fighting as part of their nature and expect for that to be utilized if they are defeated.
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So what you're implying is that pokemon are inherently willing to lose their freedom to be prize fighters for these trainers, so fight back to test them and not to defend their freedom? Sounds like we have a pokemon apologist on our hands, folks.

But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
 

Oryx

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kylio_27 said:
So what you're implying is that pokemon are inherently willing to lose their freedom to be prize fighters for these trainers, so fight back to test them and not to defend their freedom? Sounds like we have a pokemon apologist on our hands, folks.

But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
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Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer. Considering they have the power to escape easily and they choose not to.

As far as violence promotion, no Pokemon die in the games, and there's no instances of children hurting their animals due to Pokemon that I know about. Do you know of any? Do you know of any dogfighters who took their inspiration from Pokemon?
 

Skitty1

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kylio_27 said:
But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
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If it means that much to you then why are you complaining on a forum - rather than holding a sign outside of a Nintendo office?
 

kylio_27

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A wild Pokemon battles a trainers Pokemon to see if the trainer is worth making a bond with.
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Why not stop capturing pokemon and using them as tools for violent fight promotions? Let them be.

Also its in Pokemon's nature to battle.
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It's an animal's nature to fight and be violent in the wild, that doesn't mean we must institutionalize such violence and promote it as entertainment.
 
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ShinyUmbreon189

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Pokemon fighting isn't even violence. You wan't violence? Killers. The pokemon don't bleed, die, stab, shoot, kill, or anything of that such. So how is it violence? Their simply doing attacks based on their type. Like fire, water, grass, electric, rock, flying, ground, psychic, steel, dark, ghost, etc. The Pokemon only get's minorly injured but brought back to normal health as soon as the trainer get's it to a Pokemon center.

Thank you Skitty! Don't bring it here if your worried about it talk to GameFreak.
 
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kylio_27

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So to say trainers only expose Pokemon to fighting because they don't care is a fallacy, since that isn't even accurate in our universe, let alone another universe.
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I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
 

Skitty1

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Also a Pokemon never dies it only faints.

kylio_27 said:
I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
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^What in the bloody hell do you think humans have been doing since we existed?!

We [humans] have always fought, murdered, cheated and etc. to advance and that is stupid and destructive.
 
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Oryx

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I think we need to clarify your actual stance here, kylio.

Are you speaking from inside the Pokemon universe, that the universe itself is immoral and should be changed?

Or are you speaking from outside the Pokemon universe, that the affect the franchise has on the real world is negative and the franchise should change?
 
ShinyUmbreon189

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You don't see Pokemon walking around with weapons and explosives. So how are they violent and destructive. THE POKEMON WANTS TO BATTLE, WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT. THE TRAINER TAKES THE POKEMON TO A POKEMON CENTER AND IT'S STILL HAPPY.
 

kylio_27

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Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer.
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Boxers aren't captured, and conditioned into this career, they choose it. Pokemon are essentially wild animals(regardless of intelligence), so just let them live in the wild. Let them apply their "nature" naturally.

Promoting violence for entertainment, whether it is boxing, or pokemon, is morally reprehensible, and immature.

Pokemon fighting isn't even violence.
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Fighting IS violence. It is the initiation of force on another individual. The pokemon world promotes this violent nature for entertainment.
 
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