Fanfiction Lounge

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?
Most of the time I stick to the original design, but I might add a few buildings or feature ones that might be a possible building but not shown (in the anime at least). For instance, the History Museum in NE. It could actually be a possible building in the Pokemon anime, but it didn't. Considering Jubilife City is huge in the anime, I see no harm in featuring that building.

Redstar said:

Because there is a definite difference. There is no "slightly different" and "entirely different"... A difference is a difference, and I didn't find it necessary to specify the extent of that difference, just that there is one and how it is defined.

And no, I'm not narrowing down to blue entries because, as I said, I didn't even look at the page.

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You're missing my point. The point was that you were narrowing down your definitions to only one or the other and then saying that your definitions agreed with the page and what I was saying when both it and I were trying to tell you to think broader. But because this is a point I keep trying to restate, I'm just going to leave it at that.

I'm not changing my definition. Are you honestly saying that I have to be weaselly about my words to win a petty argument?

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It wouldn't be the first time someone's done that in a debate with me, and all I'm saying is that it seems like that's what you're doing.

I feel like I'm defending myself because you simply felt like you wanted to target someone today,

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Excuse me? The reason why I'm talking to you about it is because you said something that didn't sound right in my mind. You could have been anyone else, and I still would have pulled up your post and said the lengthier equivalent of, "WTF, mate?" So, please don't try to say, "OMG, you're ganging up on me."

You said you wouldn't be breaking rules until someone broke out calling the other an "idiot". Well, to a writer calling my post "badly-worded" is even worse.

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What? "Badly-worded" isn't saying "omg you can't write." It's saying, "That may not be what you meant, but it's what you said." I'm not calling you stupid or a bad writer. I'm saying that a possible misinterpretation of your initial post can't entirely be my fault. It's the fault of a post that says something other than what you're actually trying to say. I've called my own posts badly-worded on occasion because that's the simple definition of what happens to people sometimes.

Moreover, it's still on-topic because it's about writing, and it's not like it's a closed discussion if anyone else wants to pitch in anything. That and it's not the first time I've ever had a debate with someone about literature here, and I'm not actually insulting you. You're simply interpreting that I'm trying to do so when there's nothing there.

No, I can't keep saying this, but I meant the whole package.

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That's not what you said earlier, which is my point. Your first post was narrowing things down too much, whether you meant to or not.

but I do consider Valentine my equal so I wont back down when I feel like I know what I'm saying and I'm being picked on for it

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If you're my equal, don't play the victim card. It implies you don't know me that well.

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?
The first part of TCNG is set in an altered Rustboro and a Modernized Hoenn.

Valentine said:

You're missing my point. The point was that you were narrowing down your definitions to only one or the other and then saying that your definitions agreed with the page and what I was saying when both it and I were trying to tell you to think broader. But because this is a point I keep trying to restate, I'm just going to leave it at that.

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I narrowed my definitions down to a three-paragraph post because it was a spur-of-the-moment issue that I put my two-cents into and people started to move on... I could have written 20 posts if I wanted, but it wasn't a big deal. It isn't a big deal.

Valentine said:

It wouldn't be the first time someone's done that in a debate with me, and all I'm saying is that it seems like that's what you're doing.

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Well I'm not. I said what I meant, I continue to say what I mean, and in the end even if I was being weaselly, I'm still saying I'm agreeing with you... If that's the issue, are you claiming that I gave myself congratulation when I didn't deserve it?

Valentine said:

Excuse me? The reason why I'm talking to you about it is because you said something that didn't sound right in my mind. You could have been anyone else, and I still would have pulled up your post and said the lengthier equivalent of, "WTF, mate?" So, please don't try to say, "OMG, you're ganging up on me."

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Hey, you say I'm being weaselly. I say you're picking on me. A matter of perception, kid

Valentine said:

What? "Badly-worded" isn't saying "omg you can't write." It's saying, "That may not be what you meant, but it's what you said." I'm not calling you stupid or a bad writer. I'm saying that a possible misinterpretation of your initial post can't entirely be my fault. It's the fault of a post that says something other than what you're actually trying to say. I've called my own posts badly-worded on occasion because that's the simple definition of what happens to people on occasion.

Moreover, it's still on-topic because it's about writing, and it's not like it's a closed discussion if anyone else wants to pitch in anything. That and it's not the first time I've ever had a debate with someone about literature here, and I'm not actually insulting you. You're simply interpreting that I'm trying to do so.

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Whether it was intentional or not, I'd rather you have called me an idiot to say my post was badly-worded. I try to make things clear, so if I haven't done the right thing with my words it's going to irk me.

Valentine said:

That's not what you said earlier, which is my point. Your first post was narrowing things down too much, whether you meant to or not.

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I was narrowing things down too much? Like I said before, I could have made a 20-paragraph post... I opted for three. I'm not going to write a thesis on the inherent and applied differences and similarities between literary elements, literary device, literary technique, and literary whatever.

I said what needed to be said and no one got an entirely wrong impression of what the terms mean.

Valentine said:

If you're my equal, don't play the victim card. It really ticks me off.

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I'm not playing the victim card. I feel you're needlessly antagonizing me, and I don't like it. There are several ways you could have gone about disagreeing with me, but instead you blindsided me and started this whole thing.

All we are saying is



[/SARCASM]

Redstar said:

Hey, you say I'm being weaselly. I say you're picking on me. A matter of perception, kid

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1. Don't call me a kid if you also call me an equal. I'm not insulted by it, but it's more or less an insult to you.
2. It's not actually a matter of perception if I keep motioning to proof and logical analysis of one of your posts, and you've pointed to something that isn't actually there. My tone may be annoyed, but it's always cynical in this thread, if you'd like to go back through my earlier posts here.

Whether it was intentional or not, I'd rather you have called me an idiot to say my post was badly-worded.

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Last I checked, idiot was a clear, personal insult. Badly-worded was constructive criticism about your actual post -- not even your actual writing style.

If you're going to be a writer, you're going to have to realize (not saying you already don't, although this discussion seems to imply it) that not everything you say is going to be straightforward because you're human. However, as a result, someone else is going to look at something that seems off and question it because it's the internet. You have to have the kind of skin that enables you to face the fact that what you say isn't always perfect and that you're going to have to explain, refine, or apologize for it later.

Also, you claim that you're a writer. That's great, but if you are, then post something. Then, I can decide about your actual writing style. I consider it to be separate from posts. I know you don't; I'm simply saying that I was, in no way, insinuating anything about your abilities as a writer so much as a conversationalist.

I was narrowing things down too much? Like I said before, I could have made a 20-paragraph post... I opted for three. I'm not going to write a thesis on the inherent and applied differences and similarities between literary elements, literary device, literary technique, and literary whatever.

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I'm not asking you to do so. I'm telling you that if you didn't mean what I say you meant in your first post, all you had to do was add a few lines and change the wording of the ones that are already there in order to clarify what you were saying.

I said what needed to be said and no one got an entirely wrong impression of what the terms mean.

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Because no one other than me actually responded to your post.

I'm not playing the victim card. I feel you're needlessly antagonizing me, and I don't like it.

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Which is the victim card because there's no proof that I am, considering it's not actually new. (Why any vets are thinking that it is beyond me.) It's just the first real time with you, and you're not really realizing that this isn't the first time I've had this kind of debate.

(For some reason I feel like I'm interrupting someone's dinner)

Sorry if this has been addressed before or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm new to this part of the forums and this thread is so huge as to be practically unnavigable.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?
Nope. Well, not yet, anyways. I like to keep the settings as close to canon as possible, though I do have an idea for Celadon City and that means I'm going to really alter it later. Regions, on the other hand, I don't touch unless I want to randomly add a town or something (which I would just take from the anime).

EDIT:

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.

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It really depends on someone's opinion. Some people like reading about original Pokemon and some just really dislike it for some reason. I'd say go for it if the Pokemon are fleshed out.

Scarf said:

(For some reason I feel like I'm interrupting someone's dinner)

Sorry if this has been addressed before or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm new to this part of the forums and this thread is so huge as to be practically unnavigable.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.

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You're talking about Kanto, 150 originaL? I'd say that would work, as long as like you said it was well written and fleshed out, you'd probably want to reveal more of what your thoughts are on your own fic idea though.

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?

Well, in terms of the whole island, I do tweak perhaps an area or two, but I'd keep the destination the same. Like oh route 100 to Bob's house, or that special cave. I suppose that would be somewhat similar to the anime anyway.

You're talking about Kanto, 150 originaL? I'd say that would work, as long as like you said it was well written and fleshed out, you'd probably want to reveal more of what your thoughts are on your own fic idea though.

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Ah, sorry, not one of the original Pokemon, but a completely new, home-made Pokemon of my own creation. Sorry for the mix-up.

The fic idea isn't particularly special, an emotionally lost young person is given a Pokemon by a shady character who wants to corrupt her and as she wises up she has to deal with this guy as well as her estranged friends who still think she's going down the wrong path. I know it could work without adding new Pokemon, but if there's no good reason stopping me I don't see why I shouldn't.

Holy crap, I wrote a lenghty reply and now it's all gone. I hate it when this happens!

First of all, hi Jax! I've been pretty absent myself lately, so I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on... But I missed you! Glad to see you're alive and well.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?

I've seen plenty of fics with made-up Pokémon, if that's what you mean, but I've never read any, so I can't really say. My advice to you, however, is to go for it. If you feel that you can plan your Pokémon sufficiently and then describe them in a way that's neither inadequate nor interrupts the flow of the story, then sure, go for it. You just have to understand that it's going to be quite a challenge compared to writing with the Pokémon already described in the canon. Also, you should never resort to simply showing your readers pictures of the original Pokémon.

Then again, writing is always a challenge in its own right... If you don't mind the additional difficulties, then you should definitely go for it. Don't ask if people are going to like it, make them like it! That's how it should be done ^-^

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?

I rarely use any canon region, but I definitely wouldn't modify it. Okay, well, when going by game canon I would definitely have more houses in a village than three, but that's not really modifying the region, is it? In my opinion, you shouldn't modify what already excists (i.e. Goldenrod City can't suddenly move to Sinnoh or change its place in Johto), but you can find the holes the canon has and slip through them in a discreet way. You know, there could be a hidden temple in the forests of Sinnoh, but it would be a bit iffy to have a new city suddenly spawn out of nowhere.

But that's just my opinion.

Scarf said:

Ah, sorry, not one of the original Pokemon, but a completely new, home-made Pokemon of my own creation. Sorry for the mix-up.

The fic idea isn't particularly special, an emotionally lost young person is given a Pokemon by a shady character who wants to corrupt her and as she wises up she has to deal with this guy as well as her estranged friends who still think she's going down the wrong path. I know it could work without adding new Pokemon, but if there's no good reason stopping me I don't see why I shouldn't.

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Ah I see. No that does work. People commonly use new Pokemon (aka Fakemon), as well as new regions.

So at one point it is evident to her friends that she is going down the wrong path? (would be the only question I have for the fic idea), otherwise it sounds like it does have potential. :)

Aurincha said:

If you don't mind the additional difficulties, then you should definitely go for it. Don't ask if people are going to like it, make them like it! That's how it should be done ^-^

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My new personal mantra.

Feign said:

Ah I see. No that does work. People commonly use new Pokemon (aka Fakemon), as well as new regions.

So at one point it is evident to her friends that she is going down the wrong path? (would be the only question I have for the fic idea), otherwise it sounds like it does have potential. :)

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Well, I seem to have my answer. Thanks. And to answer your question, the protagonist becomes alienated once she gets that Pokemon and the friends learn where she got it.

Valentine said:

1. Don't call me a kid if you also call me an equal. I'm not insulted by it, but it's more or less an insult to you.
2. It's not actually a matter of perception if I keep motioning to proof and logical analysis of one of your posts, and you've pointed to something that isn't actually there. My tone may be annoyed, but it's always cynical in this thread, if you'd like to go back through my earlier posts here.

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I called you a 'kid' because I was attempting to make the conversation more light and personal to overcome the animosity between us. I could have opted for my original choice of 'babe', if you prefer.

Repeatedly stating that I'm lying and that I didn't say what I said isn't logical.

Valentine said:

Last I checked, idiot was a clear, personal insult. Badly-worded was constructive criticism about your actual post -- not even your actual writing style.

If you're going to be a writer, you're going to have to realize (not saying you already don't, although this discussion seems to imply it) that not everything you say is going to be straightforward because you're human. However, as a result, someone else is going to look at something that seems off and question it because it's the internet. You have to have the kind of skin that enables you to face the fact that what you say isn't always perfect and that you're going to have to explain, refine, or apologize for it later.

Also, you claim that you're a writer. That's great, but if you are, then post something. Then, I can decide about your actual writing style. I consider it to be separate from posts. I know you don't; I'm simply saying that I was, in no way, insinuating anything about your abilities as a writer so much as a conversationalist.

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You may have been offering constructive criticism, but from the very subject I can tell you weren't. You implied that the fault was entirely on me, that I was unclear and I should acknowledge that. You didn't suggest the possibility that maybe you simply misinterpreted or didn't understand my post. If it's all my fault, then it's an insult.

Wow, really? I "claim" I'm a writer? I don't see why I should have to present credentials of my past and present work to prove I have relevant input. But if it pleases you, I have been working on a chapter-by-chapter original trainer fic that I plan on posting sometime soon, and participated in the Small Writing Contest which should be posted within two weeks. You're welcome to offer constructive criticism and thoughts then.

Valentine said:

I'm not asking you to do so. I'm telling you that if you didn't mean what I say you meant in your first post, all you had to do was add a few lines and change the wording of the ones that are already there in order to clarify what you were saying.

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You say "if didn't mean what [you] say meant...", I should edit my post. Well, I didn't mean at all what you say I meant, I meant what I meant.

I stand by my original post and shouldn't have to edit it. I've clarified myself many times over.

Valentine said:

Because no one other than me actually responded to your post.

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Fine. For anyone that was involved in that discussion, was my post in the least bit helpful? Or was it just confusing? And after this conversation between Val and me, has your opinion changed in either direction? You're welcome to speak for yourself, Val, but don't speak for them.

Valentine said:

Which is the victim card because there's no proof that I am, considering it's not actually new. (Why any vets are thinking that it is beyond me.) It's just the first real time with you, and you're not really realizing that this isn't the first time I've had this kind of debate.

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A feeling is a feeling. I don't need proof to feel like you're antagonizing me.

You're welcome to your personality. You're welcome to be cynical and debate. But when you do so about something that was never a topic of contention, I can only assume you're trolling and simply looking for something to argue over. I'd be glad to participate in discussions that warrant it and would be more than one-sided, but this simply isn't one of them.

I'm done. I've said my piece and anyone can take from it what they want, and the same towards your comments. I can only hope that in the future our discussions are more mutually enjoyable.

Scarf said:

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.

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I'd like that. Original Pokemon have a certain nostalgia-factor to them, since most people had that hobby when they were younger. I would love to get a glimpse into your personal take on Pocket Monsters, and a fic is the best way to go about doing that.

Well, I picked a "Bad Day" to sleep late. Missed spending time with Awesome! ;;

Now to drag things up again.

Shrike Flamestar said:

I'm no mod but I'm sure I'm channeling Astinus here when I say that if you must debate, could you perhaps do it someplace else? The lounge is supposed to be a happy place! Happy and full of crazy, fun times! Debating is not happy. It is ugly. And bad. And evil.

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The Lounge isn't always happy fun times. Sorry, but it's not.

Mizan Nix Zamnie said:

Basically [not trying to minimod], make peace or bring it to the VM arena

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That is mini-modding.

And yeah, you know, I said this earlier this month. I'm fine with people posting in the Lounge. Just as long as it pertains to writing, I don't care if people talk about what size underwear their characters wear, or whether the correct definition of a literary term is used. And the latter, which is seen here, is on-topic with what the Lounge is about.

Now, guys, could you just remember one thing? I'm the moderator. I have the shiny badge that says "Moderator" on it, the name that goes with it, and the power. I've been entrusted by the higher staff to uphold this section's rules, and so I should know what I'm talking about when I say it. And so Val's right when if it ain't Ze Great Astinus with her mod stick saying "Stop posting", she ain't gotta listen. Because, yeah, I have the powers behind me to prove that I'm the one she (and everyone) has gotta listen to. So you can say "Stop posting!" and she's fine unless I say "Stop posting."

Now, this argument ain't going anywhere, so it's best just to stop before repetition happens again.

Will answer bold topics later.

Duly noted, Astinus. The argument may have dragged on longer than it needed, but I feel I stopped myself (and hopefully Val will in turn) at a decent time. I just hope it wasn't entirely unbecoming of a new regular. =D

Redstar said:

(and hopefully Val will in turn)

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I've taken it to VMs because, frankly, now I'm fully offended. That and it's not on topic anymore.

But hello to the newbie. Don't worry. I only bite if I think you look tasty. Your fic looks interesting, and there's really nothing stopping you from using fakemon, as Feign and others had said. Just describe it with enough detail to let the reader figure out what it is, and you're good to go.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?
I'm fine with a fic with original Pokémon. They must be described in enough detail, though. Although you can get away with brief descriptions of canonical Pokémon, it's far more difficult to do it with original ones, because the reader doesn't already know what they look like. I think, though, a fic with entirely original Pokémon would be difficult to swallow, personally, and one with original and canonical ones weaved in together would probably be better. The Quest for the Legends does this well, I think.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?
I don't mind Fakemon and sometimes they can be very fun to read. However, I prefer to read about canon Pokemon since I'm aware of them already. With Fakemon, I'm not exactly sure of their appearance. Even when the writer describes their appearance well, it might vary from person to person, unlike the canon Pokemon where the designs of them are already set in stone and everyone sees them. Also, not sure about their living habits, their attacks, their types, etc. True, it might come naturally during the story, but you probably would have to put the info on the Pokmeon throughout the story, unlike the canon ones where we already know the attacks they can learn and such.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?

Here's my take on fakemon. If there's already a pokémon that would suit your needs, use it. If there absolutely positively isn't (the fact that there is no dolphin pokémon readily springs to mind), then I'm cool with fakemon.

The thing is, fakemon are a lot harder for a reader to get acquainted with and tougher for a writer to implement. Plus, you're writing pokémon fanfiction. What's the point if you're not using pokémon? You might as well write a fully original story. Just keep those things in mind while you go.