Hacking evolution - Take Two

[Argent Crusader]

Hello people! You might remember me, or you might not. Anyways, Kike-Scott here, brand new name.
I'm just taking a look at this section of the forums after a long break (I'm not working on anything before you guys ask).
I came specially to check if there's any advance in DPPt hacking. And as I thought, there's almost nothing significative.
This is really interesting, because the games are out since September 2007, almost two years, and what? Almost nothing.
I'm not seeing a DPPt hack. And with hack I mean a complete overhaul of graphics, maps, plot and scripts.
No one has done tools yet, it's not like I'm asking them, but I remember some users complaining about others that just wanted tools and didn't wanted to help develop them, don't wanted to understand the game deeply.
I'm just here to post my concern and to see if everyone thinks that the Pokémon Rom-hacking will stick with Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf Green and Emerald forever, or maybe there's a small chance to fully developed generation four hacks appear.

[colcolstyles]

I'd be careful talking about the accomplishments (or supposedly the lack thereof) of the people who work hard researching the possibilities of hacking D/P/Pt. I'm not one of them but they might take offense at that.

Anyways, I personally have no interest in hacking 4th generation games so I'm not so bummed about the lack of progress. Post-R/S/E pokémon really piss me off due to the lack of creativity put into them and I'd much rather prefer hacking a game I played through than something I've never experienced firsthand.
Still, that's not to say that there hasn't been progress towards hacking 4th gen games. Yes, there isn't much but people have made some discoveries (I'm sure they could go into a lot more detail about them than I could) and there a few tools out there, although I haven't tried them. As long as there is a demand for 4th generation hacking tools, people will continue researching. I say we just let them take their time with it

[~Teh Panda~]

Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P

[Darthatron]

When those new Gold/Silver remakes are released I'll be dedicating most of my free time to hacking them. Until then...

*Darthatron is AFK*

[Argent Crusader]

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~

Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P

Oh, good! I didn't see this. Still, no hacks so far.
But, still no one has managed to heavy edit maps, wich I think are the base to do a better game.
With this PPRE tool I've seen a good progress, let's see what happens next...

And I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just want to know the thougths of the community.

[SCV]

Originally Posted by Argent Crusader

Hello people! You might remember me, or you might not. Anyways, Kike-Scott here, brand new name.
I'm just taking a look at this section of the forums after a long break (I'm not working on anything before you guys ask).
I came specially to check if there's any advance in DPPt hacking. And as I thought, there's almost nothing significative.
This is really interesting, because the games are out since September 2007, almost two years, and what? Almost nothing.
I'm not seeing a DPPt hack. And with hack I mean a complete overhaul of graphics, maps, plot and scripts.
No one has done tools yet, it's not like I'm asking them, but I remember some users complaining about others that just wanted tools and didn't wanted to help develop them, don't wanted to understand the game deeply.
I'm just here to post my concern and to see if everyone thinks that the Pokémon Rom-hacking will stick with Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf Green and Emerald forever, or maybe there's a small chance to fully developed generation four hacks appear.

There is a good chance we'll see fully developed 4th gen edits. But it will take a while to get there, especially since the number of people working towards getting the knowledge required is very small (due to a variety or reasons).

Originally Posted by colcolstyles

As long as there is a demand for 4th generation hacking tools, people will continue researching. I say we just let them take their time with it

Well, the thing is there is not much real "demand". But either way, personally, demand does not affect me in developing DPP editing. Having demand influence would be bad, IMO, it must be personal interest that motivates the researcher or programmer.

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~

Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P

Nice that that is noticed. Just out of curiosity, why is my name in quotes?

Originally Posted by Darthatron

When those new Gold/Silver remakes are released I'll be dedicating most of my free time to hacking them. Until then...

*Darthatron is AFK*

What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

Of course, when you work on it it your choice

Originally Posted by Argent Crusader

Oh, good! I didn't see this. Still, no hacks so far.

Well part of it is that most people don't want an editor that requires them to understand hex. There was a bug in the first versions of the script editor that was not noticed until about a month ago, which made making bigger scripts impossible.

But, still no one has managed to heavy edit maps, wich I think are the base to do a better game.

Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.

[Argent Crusader]

Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.

You are right. You can do that.
I just hate reusing old maps, for me hacking is related very closely with the idea of a new world :D

[gamefreakfatty]

In my opinion you should be able to make a very good hack using the same maps. If you're creative enough you should be able to make up an entirely new storyline and make it work with the old maps while still making it interesting to play. On the other hand, editing maps would be nice, but at this point it is very complicated and few people have even been able to make them show up in 3D display programs properly.

[E-Bag]

At this point SCV is really the only good hacker working on D/P/P.

I'm going to say something that I've said before (I think). If you want to hack a game, then hack it, no one's stopping you. D/P is wide open, not even a checksum. Instead of wondering WHY it's not hacked, go for it and hack it.

[~Teh Panda~]

Originally Posted by SCV

There is a good chance we'll see fully developed 4th gen edits. But it will take a while to get there, especially since the number of people working towards getting the knowledge required is very small (due to a variety or reasons).

Well, the thing is there is not much real "demand". But either way, personally, demand does not affect me in developing DPP editing. Having demand influence would be bad, IMO, it must be personal interest that motivates the researcher or programmer.

Nice that that is noticed. Just out of curiosity, why is my name in quotes?

What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

Of course, when you work on it it your choice
Well part of it is that most people don't want an editor that requires them to understand hex. There was a bug in the first versions of the script editor that was not noticed until about a month ago, which made making bigger scripts impossible.

Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.

Your special :D, lol...

But really...
So he knows your names only SCV. "SCV"

@e-bag:
That is true, if you want to hack it and are determined maybe you could find your own method

[Darthatron]

Originally Posted by SCV

What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

Of course, when you work on it it your choice

I do not have any interest in D/P/P, so hacking it is more like a chore. However, once the new games come out I will enjoy hacking them and will want to hack.

Thanks for caring.

[SCV]

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~

So he knows your names only SCV. "SCV"

Ah, ok.

Originally Posted by Darthatron

I do not have any interest in D/P/P, so hacking it is more like a chore. However, once the new games come out I will enjoy hacking them and will want to hack.

Thanks for caring.

I think that this ties in very well into the evolution of Pokemon ROM Editing. Or rather the lack thereof. There is no such thing as hacking DPP vs hacking HG/SS. There is only DS Pokemon game hacking.

However, this only works if the right approach is taken, which hasn't been done except in very few cases. There is a considerable number of DP Editing tools. However, almost none of them works for platinum and the makers of those programs have not made them compatible with platinum. Why? Because they were not made as DS Pokemon Game Editors. The idea that editing any one of the DS Pokemon Games is the same as any other has not caught on. That is something that has to happen before more people start developing DS hacking (Saying DPPHGSS Hacking will be too long).

Yes, I will like HG/SS more than DPP but I know what when it comes out all I have to do is edit a few numbers and names and PPRE will work for HG/SS as well.

[Argent Crusader]

Originally Posted by E-Bag

At this point SCV is really the only good hacker working on D/P/P.

I'm going to say something that I've said before (I think). If you want to hack a game, then hack it, no one's stopping you. D/P is wide open, not even a checksum. Instead of wondering WHY it's not hacked, go for it and hack it.

I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.

[SCV]

Originally Posted by Argent Crusader

I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.

The lack of progress is because most people are like you. You don't want to do it. That's how most people feel. Sure once the tools are out, they'll use them. But actually hack? Of course people don't want to do that.

[Alpha de Splash]

Originally Posted by SCV

The lack of progress is because most people are like you. You don't want to do it. That's how most people feel. Sure once the tools are out, they'll use them. But actually hack? Of course people don't want to do that.

Of course there are also people like me. Those who know massive amounts of information, but i don't know exactly how i should share all of it. i am not so active in the hacking forums, though i have read through many times and have answers to many questions asked. so for now, i just leave some stuff in my albums.

[SCV]

Originally Posted by pokesplash

Of course there are also people like me. Those who know massive amounts of information, but i don't know exactly how i should share all of it. i am not so active in the hacking forums, though i have read through many times and have answers to many questions asked. so for now, i just leave some stuff in my albums.

Well and easy way to share info is to write a program that uses it and provide the source. For example, when loadingNOW figured out text the way he shared was by making a program to extract text and providing the source.

Are you planing to make any programs? If you are feel free to contact me, I can clarify some things about models to make it easier.

Also what exactly is "massive"?

[E-Bag]

Originally Posted by Argent Crusader

I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.

I was saying you as to the hacking community in general, I'm sorry if it came across as sounding somewhat harsh and pointed.

I think there's no question as to why it's not happening. There's a lack of interest, and even when there is interest there is a lack of motivation.

I'd like to step back a few months to when I was hacking Diamond and Pearl. I was a completely stuck up idiot. The way I behaved during the time of PokeSpam was totally unacceptable. I was some stupid "noob" who learned how to press CTRL+F in a hex editor and tell when he found something. I don't want the hacking community to become anything close to what I was.

The best thing for the future of hacking would be to have some open collection of research (A Wiki maybe) where people who want to contribute can look over the data collected by other hackers and jump right into the middle of the scene.

The only thing that can save the hacking community at this point is to be much more open and active. If people are unwilling to do that then the hacking community is most likely doomed to go without fourth generation hacking.

[SCV]

Originally Posted by E-Bag

I was saying you as to the hacking community in general, I'm sorry if it came across as sounding somewhat harsh and pointed.

I think there's no question as to why it's not happening. There's a lack of interest, and even when there is interest there is a lack of motivation.

I'd like to step back a few months to when I was hacking Diamond and Pearl. I was a completely stuck up idiot. The way I behaved during the time of PokeSpam was totally unacceptable. I was some stupid "noob" who learned how to press CTRL+F in a hex editor and tell when he found something. I don't want the hacking community to become anything close to what I was.

The best thing for the future of hacking would be to have some open collection of research (A Wiki maybe) where people who want to contribute can look over the data collected by other hackers and jump right into the middle of the scene.

The only thing that can save the hacking community at this point is to be much more open and active. If people are unwilling to do that then the hacking community is most likely doomed to go without fourth generation hacking.

Well we have in fact set up a wiki and me an pichu2001 have been adding to it for a while now. Not many people know about it though. But for anyone interested I put a link in my sig. There are many things missing and we took a break from making pages and updating because we were working on the script decompiler. But we mostly finished it this week, so pichu2001 is going to add more to the command list. I am now working on the script compiler.

I have always believed in open development and that's why PPTE was open source and PPRE is open source. Partly because I am grateful that there were those who provided open source programs that helped me get started in DS ROM Hacking. In particular loadingNOW's PokeDSPic was my first excursion into ROM hacking and not only did it help me get started with ROM hacking but also with learning C#. If it had not been for that, I might not be where I am right now.

I think open source is useful if at least for updating program for new releases. If PokeDSPic had not been open source people would probably have been stuck with not being able to edit Platinum sprites.

Also there is also the issue of some people not having enough time, due to work, school, etc. Which is the reason at least three people who would be working hard on DS Hacking are not at the moment.

[DJ91990]

You want demand for dpp/ss/hg map hacks!?
I DEMAND 4TH GEN MAP HACK NOW PLZ!

Main reason is because I want to remake Pokemon Sapphire!
POKEMON SAPPHIRE SEA Version 2009-2010 DJ-Games.

I use a hex edior and I would be intrested in helping with the hacking of 4th Gen Pokemon!
Anything to help speed up the process of a 4th Gen Pokemon Map Editor. You help me, I help you.
I know no programing knowledge but if some one would help me then I would be more than happy to contribute.

[E-Bag]

Originally Posted by DJ91990

You want demand for dpp/ss/hg map hacks!?
I DEMAND 4TH GEN MAP HACK NOW PLZ!

Main reason is because I want to remake Pokemon Sapphire!
POKEMON SAPPHIRE SEA Version 2009-2010 DJ-Games.

I use a hex edior and I would be intrested in helping with the hacking of 4th Gen Pokemon!
Anything to help speed up the process of a 4th Gen Pokemon Map Editor. You help me, I help you.
I know no programing knowledge but if some one would help me then I would be more than happy to contribute.

If you want a map editor then make one. If you're THAT desperate then learn to research and program.

[Pokepal17]

Like people have been saying, we need to work on DS support on DP supprt. At the end of the day they're the same gam engine. That's why GBA hacking is so good, because tools support GBA not only RSE. The only was we can work is if we do what Coolboyman did and start hacking the DS with a hex editor and learn about what's there.