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  #1    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (12:46 PM). Edited November 4th, 2009 by hashtag.
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ROM Hacking Discussions


ROM Hacking is something that needs to be discussed, and on a daily basis. The place to freely do that without spamming is Visitor Messages, Private Messages and the chat. But why not make a whole thread where ROM hackers can discuss, well ROM hacking? Whether it is discussing a hack, showcasing new skills or just general ROM hacking talk, it can be done here! This thread can also be used as a screenshot showcase, for people who don't have a thread for their hacks.
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  • Discuss ROM Hacking topics only.
  • Discussions about a ROM Hack go to its thread if there is one.
  • No asking for help. For help, go to the Simple Questions or Script Help threads.
  • Map discussions go to the Map Rating/Review thread.
  • Shiny Gold discussion will be considered as off topic.
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  #2    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (12:55 PM).
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My intro ftw . Anyways, what shall we discuss? Shiny Gold? Well, I was thinking of finally doing some work on Shinite, any ideas on what we should do first?
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  #3    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (01:00 PM).
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Mm, good idea. This will probably clear up a bunch of threads in the main ROM Hacking forum that can be answered in a single post.
Let's see, what to talk about...
Oh yes! How 'bout why people don't like hacking Emerald? They claim it's "unstable" but I haven't seen any proof of that. I've been working with it for a little while now and I think it's great! Animated battle sprites, larger secondary tilesets (as opposed to FR/LG), more map "folders", all R/S/E and FR/LG music plus select tracks from G/S and even Crystal. I mean, what's not to love?
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  #4    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (01:09 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
Mm, good idea. This will probably clear up a bunch of threads in the main ROM Hacking forum that can be answered in a single post.
Let's see, what to talk about...
Oh yes! How 'bout why people don't like hacking Emerald? They claim it's "unstable" but I haven't seen any proof of that. I've been working with it for a little while now and I think it's great! Animated battle sprites, larger secondary tilesets (as opposed to FR/LG), more map "folders", all R/S/E and FR/LG music plus select tracks from G/S and even Crystal. I mean, what's not to love?
I think the idea that Emerald is unstable stems from the fact that people are told that it's unstable in tutorials for Fire Red or Ruby. I'll admit I was once part of that ignorance that it was unstable. I guess people think it's unstable because of when they try to use a program with it, the program uses different pointers for different versions and therefore messes up the ROM.

I didn't realize there was so much space on Emerald. How much larger are the secondary tilesets? And I was also unaware of all the music choices. I'll have to experiment with Emerald. ^_^

EDIT:

As much as I hate to go off-topic, why are lengthy reviews that don't have number ratings in them being deleted in the Map Rating thread? Those lengthy reviews are more constructive, a lot more well though out than posts that say things such as, "THIS MAP IS AMAZING 10/10!". Yet those posts are not deleted while good constructive posts are. I fail to see the logic and reasoning behind this.
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  #5    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (01:17 PM). Edited July 14th, 2009 by colcolstyles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
I think the idea that Emerald is unstable stems from the fact that people are told that it's unstable in tutorials for Fire Red or Ruby. I'll admit I was once part of that ignorance that it was unstable. I guess people think it's unstable because of when they try to use a program with it, the program uses different pointers for different versions and therefore messes up the ROM.
Yeah unfortunately people think it's unstable because, well, they think it's unstable. I think we need to somehow abolish that rumor. Hacking Emerald only causes problems when you overwrite existing data, as far as I know, or somehow mess with things too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
I didn't realize there was so much space on Emerald. How much larger are the secondary tilesets? And I was also unaware of all the music choices. I'll have to experiment with Emerald.
Oh yeah, you gotta at least give it a try. The music is amazing! It gives you so much more freedom and it also helps in scripts because there's a track to go along with pretty much every situation you can think of
The thing with the tilesets is that the primary tileset is smaller but all of the secondary tilesets are larger. For me, personally, this is great because I always find I'm running out of room in the secondary tilesets. Not only that, you also get more blocks as well (as opposed to tiles) which is great for lots of block edits. Also, the primary indoors tileset (Tileset 20? Or is it 12? I'm not sure) is empty (except for a few PCs and random items) and all the palettes are blank as well. All indoor maps in R/S/E use the secondary tileset for all of their tiles/blocks, which gives you the option of filling the primary tileset with whatever you want!
Another thing: Emerald also comes along with all of the benefits of Ruby & Sapphire, including RTC (giving you the option of a Day/Night system), berries, Pokénav, tons more OWs, the list goes on and on. Be careful when you're experimenting with it though. It's very easy to get hooked

Ooh, I forgot! And whenever you enter a town/route/city/underwater or whatever, the box that the name is displayed in changes, depending on the location!

More stuff: R/S/E tilesets hold up 512 tiles and can accommodate up to 512 blocks as well (512 == 0x1FF by the way).
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  #6    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (01:37 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
Oh yeah, you gotta at least give it a try. The music is amazing! It gives you so much more freedom and it also helps in scripts because there's a track to go along with pretty much every situation you can think of^^
The thing with the tilesets is that the primary tileset is smaller but all of the secondary tilesets are larger. For me, personally, this is great because I always find I'm running out of room in the secondary tilesets. Not only that, you also get more blocks as well (as opposed to tiles) which is great for lots of block edits. Also, the primary indoors tileset (Tileset 20? Or is it 12? I'm not sure) is empty (except for a few PCs and random items) and all the palettes are blank as well. All indoor maps in R/S/E use the secondary tileset for all of their tiles/blocks, which gives you the option of filling the primary tileset with whatever you want!
Another thing: Emerald also comes along with all of the benefits of Ruby & Sapphire, including RTC (giving you the option of a Day/Night system), berries, Pokénav, tons more OWs, the list goes on and on. Be careful when you're experimenting with it though. It's very easy to get hooked ^^

Ooh, I forgot! And whenever you enter a town/route/city/underwater or whatever, the box that the name is displayed in changes, depending on the location!

More stuff: R/S/E tilesets hold up 512 tiles and can accommodate up to 512 blocks as well (512 == 0x1FF by the way).
Just wondering, is there more overworld palettes? And I knew about the box thing with routes showing like a wooden drop down. More blocks = more block edits = better maps. ^_^ I'm liking the sound of this already. It just sounds so much more powerful than Fire Red.

And a lot of room for new indoor tilesets interests me and sounds amazing. Now I'm really wishing I didn't have to leave for work now. I just want to try this stuff out, haha.
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  #7    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (01:48 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
Just wondering, is there more overworld palettes? And I knew about the box thing with routes showing like a wooden drop down. More blocks = more block edits = better maps. I'm liking the sound of this already. It just sounds so much more powerful than Fire Red.

And a lot of room for new indoor tilesets interests me and sounds amazing. Now I'm really wishing I didn't have to leave for work now. I just want to try this stuff out, haha.
I don't know about the overworld palettes, nor am I in a position to confirm that. Still, that's a good question. I'll have to look into it when I get the chance.
And on the topic of those drop-down box things, here's a little tip that I discovered just this morning: setting the flag "0x4000" will prevent the boxes from coming down. The flag is set in one of the early events, I believe, and I couldn't figure out why the boxes weren't showing up. I thought that it had something to do with the fact that I had changed the name of the town, which led me on a wild goose chase, looking through AdvanceMap, XSE, and even unLZ trying to find the problem
So just remember to "clearflag 0x4000" if they're not showing up.

As for the indoor primary tileset, I'm thinking of porting a lot of FR/LG indoor tiles, along with their respective palettes, to the empty tileset. If I ever do get around to it (which is highly unlikely), I'll probably post a patch in the ROM Hacking Resources thread.
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  #8    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (05:25 PM).
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Concerning Emerald's overworld palettes, I counted twenty five palettes whereas Fire Red only has nine and Ruby has seventeen. So inserting new overworlds will be quite easy in Emerald. Much more overworld diversity can be shown using Emerald. I'm actually surprised at how little Fire Red has.

And concerning the Fire Red interior tiles on Emerald, if anyone wants a patch I can do that fairly quickly. It will mostly be block editing to match the Fire Red blocks, but I'm sure that won't take that long.
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  #9    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (05:37 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirno View Post

Rules

  • Shiny Gold discussion will be considered as off topic.
Epic rule is epic.

Wow. I might just take a little break from FR and take a look at Emerald. I mean, seriously, it has almost as many OW palettes as Ruby and FireRed do combined, which is awesome.

Lots of music sounds really nice, too; especially since I have plenty of music I want to insert. xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d
And concerning the Fire Red interior tiles on Emerald, if anyone wants a patch I can do that fairly quickly. It will mostly be block editing to match the Fire Red blocks, but I'm sure that won't take that long.
That would be nice. ^^
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  #10    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (06:57 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
Concerning Emerald's overworld palettes, I counted twenty five palettes whereas Fire Red only has nine and Ruby has seventeen. So inserting new overworlds will be quite easy in Emerald. Much more overworld diversity can be shown using Emerald. I'm actually surprised at how little Fire Red has.

And concerning the Fire Red interior tiles on Emerald, if anyone wants a patch I can do that fairly quickly. It will mostly be block editing to match the Fire Red blocks, but I'm sure that won't take that long.
Yeah maybe there will be more Emerald Hacks... That would be nice to see, as well as some tools that can be used to edit emerald data (with the right offsets lol). Speaking of which, is anybody making an attempt to create some tools to "stabalize", if you will, Emerald ROMs?

I need some help on shiny gold. I am at the *shot*
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  #11    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (07:03 PM). Edited July 14th, 2009 by sasquatchd00d.
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Am I doing something wrong or what? x_x

I already encountered problems trying to insert Fire Red indoor tiles into Emerald. For some reason the marts use tiles from the primary tileset even though they have their own secondary tileset. x_x
I'm pretty sure I could just remap them with the secondary tileset to fix this, but I'm lazy. I guess the only problem here is just my laziness. Whatever. I'll do it sometime soon.

Someone will probably point out an easier way to do this after I do it or something and I'll be like, *facepalm*.

EDIT:

Okay, maybe it's my ROM but when I block edit tiles from tileset 16, it block edits them automatically in tileset 17. Are they connected or what?

EDIT2:

*facepalm* on my part. I checked the tileset offsets in the header tab and they're nearly identical. I'm fairly certain I could fix this problem just by moving one of the tileset's data to a free offset.
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  #12    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (07:19 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
Am I doing something wrong or what? x_x

I already encountered problems trying to insert Fire Red indoor tiles into Emerald. For some reason the marts use tiles from the primary tileset even though they have their own secondary tileset. x_x
I'm pretty sure I could just remap them with the secondary tileset to fix this, but I'm lazy. I guess the only problem here is just my laziness. Whatever. I'll do it sometime soon.

Someone will probably point out an easier way to do this after I do it or something and I'll be like, *facepalm*.

EDIT:

Okay, maybe it's my ROM but when I block edit tiles from tileset 16, it block edits them automatically in tileset 17. Are they connected or what?

EDIT2:

*facepalm* on my part. I checked the tileset offsets in the header tab and they're nearly identical. I'm fairly certain I could fix this problem just by moving one of the tileset's data to a free offset.
Unfortunately, the computer which I hack with doesn't have internet access so it's either hack or go on PC. Therefore, I can't really actively help you out on this one. Though I will experiment later and put any interesting findings up here later.

Well it's good to see I could convince a few people to give Emerald hacking a shot
Though I'm serious: if you already have another project (especially one on the FR/LG code base), you may want to stay away from Emerald, else you'll never go back
I've already discovered a few nifty tricks that you can only do in Emerald but, again, all my hacking stuff is on another computer. I'll post them later if anyone's interested.
Good luck with the tileset project!
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  #13    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (07:26 PM).
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Does anyone know why I'm not able to change a tileset offset in the professional header tab of advance map? x_x

Quote:
Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
I've already discovered a few nifty tricks that you can only do in Emerald but, again, all my hacking stuff is on another computer. I'll post them later if anyone's interested.
Yeah, that'd be great.
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Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (08:08 PM).
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ughhh.... uR really making me want to switch to Emerald XD
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Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (08:30 PM).
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ughhh.... uR really making me want to switch to Emerald XD
Your hack is titled Emerald Thunder, haha. :3
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  #16    
Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (08:41 PM).
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I know... XD.

------------------------------------------------------
The one thing that i think should be discussed though are all those pointless tuts out there. I know that some of them are good, but the rest of them are just copies or "translated" into noob-speak. This may be a little dumb, but i think they should split the tuts into Two sections. One for easy and one for hard tuts. Or at least make an approval process, similar to teAM Ddiscussions, so we dont have a lot of, dare me say it, half-assed tutorials.
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Old Posted July 14th, 2009 (08:49 PM).
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I may be wrong but I believe that threads submitted to Documents/Tutorials section are already on approval. Though I agree that a lot of tutorials cover the exact same thing, over and over again.
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Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (02:47 AM).
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RSE uses 2-tile door animations.
A way to fix this is, if you are inserting a FR styled door, don't do the upper tile, just fill it with the background color.
I hope this helps to nayone that could understand.
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Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (02:53 AM).
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Whoo, RSE is awesome.

So, uhm, I don't think that was very helpful.

But yeah.
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Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (07:06 AM).
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For anyone who's interested, I've just submitted a 'tool' to go in the Toolbox. Actually, it's technically an RMXP game with gameplay replaced by the ability to edit ROMs
I've only added one feature so far, which is a Pokémon icon editor; it's based on the scripts I used to insert every single D/P Pokémon icon for the '65535 Pokémon' project. Unlike IconED, it can actually import image files :O I'll add more features later; if inserting new Pokémon is your thing, then check it out when it gets approved.

Also, I made it compatible with the Pokémon Essentials icon naming scheme and image format, so you can technically import icons copied directly from there. The only problem is that I haven't implemented a numbering system converter yet, so you'll have to rename the images if you want to do that.
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Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (07:28 AM).
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Woot! That's awesome, Wichu. I hope the interface also doesn't require to click to change every... single... last... bloody... pixel...

Well, I have hacked a little into Emerald and I quite agree with most of the other people's opinions here - it's really not all that much unstable, unless you're a complete idiot/n00b/idon00b and don't know what the hell you're doing. Heck, if you can find the tables, you can make any program work with it. The only thing I don't feel comfortable with Emerald is the fact that it has a lot less freespace (which to me, is a bit of a cozy blanket), but ROMs can be expanded to suit the needs (even though LIPS won't work with it after that)

...Am I the only person here who gets bored sometimes and removes stuff out of the rom just to see what it glitches up? It's a good way to learn what things do and where they are located.
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Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (09:37 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon the Ferryman View Post
but ROMs can be expanded to suit the needs (even though LIPS won't work with it after that)
Isn't that what UPS patching is for? I never really understood the difference between the two; does UPS patching allow for expanded ROMs, or what? If someone would explain, that'd be nice. ;3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon the Ferryman View Post
...Am I the only person here who gets bored sometimes and removes stuff out of the rom just to see what it glitches up? It's a good way to learn what things do and where they are located.
No, I don't, but it sounds like a good idea. How exactly do you remove stuff? Just like open it up in a hex editor and replace some stuff with free space?
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  #23    
Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (12:24 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon the Ferryman View Post
The only thing I don't feel comfortable with Emerald is the fact that it has a lot less freespace
True, but if necessary you can just decompile a bunch of the original scripts with XSE and use it's cleaning preprocessing directives. It might take a while but it's probably a lot more convenient that expanding your ROM. I'm reluctant to try ROM expansion because doing so would require a different type of patch (according to some people) and I'd rather stick with the more commonplace method.
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  #24    
Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (12:26 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
True, but if necessary you can just decompile a bunch of the original scripts with XSE and use it's cleaning preprocessing directives. It might take a while but it's probably a lot more convenient that expanding your ROM. I'm reluctant to try ROM expansion because doing so would require a different type of patch (according to some people) and I'd rather stick with the more commonplace method.
yea, you have to use UPS, but its pretty easy.
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  #25    
Old Posted July 15th, 2009 (12:32 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BananasGoMoo View Post
yea, you have to use UPS, but its pretty easy.
Oh I think I can handle it. I'm not worried about that. I just don't want to have to explain to other people how to patch :p
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