DP174 - DP177 Discussion - The Grand Festival! (Japanese Spoilers!)

[Jorah]

Wow, I was so annoyed at Dawn losing. I really thought she was going to win. Urgh, there really was no point in seeing her do contests as well as May, then. :/ And she lost to *Zoey* as well, I thought the whole point was going to be that Zoey helped her out the whole way through, and then Dawn grew and became better than her :( She lost to Zoey in her first contest as well. >_<

[Tachibana Azumi]

What?! And you guys (writers) give her an ending like that?

Man, I really, REALLY thought/hoped she would win this, because she had the best character development out of all characters. She started her contest conquest, fell in the process but stood back up, and she eventually came to the final stage. And THEN you let Zoey win?

Oh please, writers, let Dawn stay! D:

[chaos11011]

These episodes gave me a love for contests ussualy i just skip them and proceed to the next episode.I feel bad for Kenny though for that Whirlpool mishap.Jesse's Performance didn't realy wow me,i mean every one of her stunts causes her to be be attacked and that's not very contest like.I forgot how Nando's performance At the moment unfortuanatly.Zoey's was "Marvalous" (pun intended)Ursula brought the very first evolve in contest scenario (I think the evolve in battle was taken by grovyle and loudred if I recall corectly)Dawn's rollercoaster bit was weird I guess but the finale was spectacular.For the battles I really liked the showing of Loppuny and with Krickatune's Bug Buzz combo added more plesure.Zoey's Leafeon made it 3 Eeveelutions in the matter of 2 or 3 episodes.Also best Contest battle i've seen yet.Dual Double team was pretty epic to.Dawn vs Ursula (Mamo and Pachi vs Booster and Gabite) was rigged.Counter Pachi's Discharge with gabite and Dawn didn't lose points.Being hit "over nine thousand" (to the bare minimum) times and yet she still didnt lose any points..Really Unfair if I have say.But keeping it unbaised dawn did good with the hamster ball technique.Finaly the Zoey vs Dawn was breath taking.I didnt know when what was going to happen.It was nice to see both of there main pokemon clash.Gallade was really powerful clashing agaist Piplup and togekiss at the same time at the end (with boost with glameow) None the Less Zoey deserved it (even though Dawn did really well to but that's how the cookie crumbles)One more thing,Fantina talking English = Appualling i knew she can but it was halarious when she babled English right after Ursula's Booster was sent out.

[matt0044]

You read the thread title right. I think a main character on the Pokemon Anime should've won a regional tournament.

When I learned that Dawn lost to Zoey, I was devastated that, once again, the main character has lost and actually watching DP 177 didn't help much either. I really wish that she won.

Before any of you reply to say how Dawn shouldn't have won, read the following to see my responses to what you might say. These reasons come from the users on Serebii Forums.

1. If Dawn won, she wouldn't want to continue her journey.

Response: In Pokemon Special, Red won the Indigo League against Blue (Green) becoming the champion. Afterwords, he continued to hone his skills. He didn't travel to other regions until three years later as Gold And Silver hadn't been made until after volume 5 (if I'm correct). He didn't think that his training was over, especially after his run-in with the Elite Four. The point is that even if Dawn won the Sinnoh GF, she'd know that she'd have to travel to other regions to compete in their contests if she wanted to truly become the top co-oridinator. Also if she didn't want to continue her journey, then that would've been fine as she won't be the main character for Best Wishes. Sorry, Dawn lovers, but it's the truth. Also Zoey's continuing her quest too.

2. Dawn could not have won her first Grand Festival.

Response: This is an odd reason as it was Zoey's first Grand Festival too. Going by that logic, Zoey shouldn't have won either. And just because Ash hasn't won a league since the Orange Islands doesn't mean other main characters shouldn't win a different regional tournament, especially if they're temporary for only one series.

3. Winning the GF would've made Dawn a Mary Sue.

Response: A Mary Sue is a character that represents what the author always wished to be and is perfect in every way. Google "Mary Sue Tropes" for more information. Dawn is far from perfection and winning the Grand Festival would not have made her perfect or a Mary Sue. She lost some contests, then won some, then lost some and won again. So Dawn being a Mary Sue is out of the question.

4. Zoey was better than Dawn.

Response: While it's your opinion on who's the better character, Zoey didn't overpower Dawn as Piplup and Togekiss had NOT fainted nor did Gallade and Glameow. In fact, Dawn and Zoey were equal in strength and Zoey won due to a 1% point difference when time ran out. So Dawn's loss seems like the writers wanted her to win but changed everything at the last minute. Also while Zoey does seem more experienced, in Red and Blue your rival's always one step ahead of you and you defeat him in the end at the league. Why can't this apply to the Anime (well, it does for Ash and Paul)?

5. May didn't win so why should Dawn?

Response: Because Dawn is NOT May. That is all.

I would go on but I think you all get the picture.

I can understand if you didn't like Dawn that much and/or liked Zoey better as a character but the reasons I stated up above don't really make much sense.

Finally, I'd like to ask: is it wrong to root for your main heroes in the Pokemon Anime and actually expect them to win? We watched Dawn make so much progression in the series alongside Ash that it'd be only natural to cheer her on. It's like the one thing that's holding them back is their status as a main character. The writers may as well have said that Ash was going to lose the Sinnoh league to us.

Feel free to reply however you want. Just take what you just read into consideration please.

Thank you
-matt0044 (Call me Matt)

[Vernikova]

I also thought she should've won if not just to have defeated Zoey at least once. It's too bad the writers are afraid to have a main character win their big tournament.

[PearlShipper4Life]

Your that person that keeps posting this on Bulbagarden and Serebii forums aren't youXD
Let me say this, I think she should have at least won a battle with Zoey, could have been in a fake contest or a real one some where she should have. I don't feel she should have won the Grand Festival, she improved with her skills since the begining yes. She's still a newbie and still needs to know how to use other Pokemon besides Pipulp.

[Hiiro]

Merged your thread, matt0044 since episode discussion threads are an exception to the 30-day rule.

When I heard Dawn was battling Zoey in the finals, I really thought the writers were doing a good thing for the first time and going to have a main character win their main competition. Turns out, that wasn't the case. :\ Still, I find it a poor excuse to have Dawn lose, especially since they've shown character development in her since her first contest back in Jubilife City. Not to mention, Dawn didn't get one moment to defeat her main rival, which was a downer in her case.

[matt0044]

You know, I have to ask this: Why is the Anime going through the trouble of showing a character from beginning to end and their struggles if they're just going to lose in the end? What message are they sending to the kids? That if you believe in yourself and try your hardest, you're going to fail in the end? Isn't that a great lesson (not)? It's this that caused me to lose interest in Ash.

Not to mention that kids want to see their heroes win regardless. They root for Ash (not Paul or Takuto) and Dawn (not Zoey or Kenny).

[matt0044]

One other thing that people complain about is how Dawn's contest victories are due to luck.

I can semi-agree with this as seeing our heroes strategically get themselves out of a tight spot shows that they're smarter than we think.

However, contest battles are different from a trainer battle or a Gym Battle as there's a time limit and you start out with a full set of points that will go down depending on how much damage your Pokemon take or how good your opponent's moves are. You could either win due to your Pokemon defeat your opponent's before time runs out (resulting in all your points dropping at once) or time runs out and you just so happen to have a few or more points than your opponent. Either way, you win. And a victory's a victory, no matter how cheap it seems.

The second way of victory is how Zoey won against Dawn in the finals. So why aren't people complaining about Zoey's victory if they hate cheap victories. Oh right! Dawn's a main character and doesn't deserve to win.

And if Dawn did win due to a cheap victory, the writers would've had her acknowledge her lucky win and would've had her say that she wants to get more stronger so that she doesn't rely on luck alone.

[Vernikova]

They wouldn't have to acknowledge anything. They could just as easily have Dawn leave because she can become stronger and leave it at that.