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Reload this Page Threats in OU gen 5 (WIP) (Updated 7/6/11)

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Old January 3rd, 2011 (07:23 PM). Edited June 5th, 2011 by Dark Azelf.
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
Dream Evil.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,041
(508 110 135 60 50 65 88 Ground/Steel)

---Excadrill---

Excadrill is arguable the biggest threat of all the new gen 5 Pokemon. Its typing, stats, pseudo bulk and ability to beat most of its ground counters with a Air Balloon just give it that edge over most of the metagame. Even before we get onto its fantastic ability that grants it +2 speed when the ever common Sandstorm is present, which totally nulls revenge killing that is not priority. Its a "must beat" threat for certain. Its movepool maybe shallow but it has all it needs to shine. Forgo countering or checking this powerful mole at your peril.

Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Return / Rapid Spin / X-Scissor

This is the standard Swords Dance Excadrill set. Get Tyranitar or Hippowdon as a partner to activate Sand Rush and Swords Dance on switches and watch bodies fly around as you smack things with that wonderful base 135 Attack. Earthquake is its massively powerful STAB move capable of OHKOing many things after a boost. Rock Slide complements it coverage wise and is useful to hit flying foes, its a shame it doesnt get Stone Edge but Rock Slides flinch rate is very useful. The last slot is up to you, Excadrill is probably the best offensive spinner in the game, not only does it wreck every ghost after a boost apart from Cohagrigus, but its also immune to all residual damage bar the 3% it takes from Stealth Rock with a Air Balloon attached and none of the Spikers threaten it apart from Ferrothorn. X-Scissor hits things like Cress and Latias and is your best option vs Bronzong, whilst Return is your most powerful option vs Gliscor, Breloom and Rotom-W.

Countering Excadrill may or may not be difficult based on how your team is layed out. Defensive Pokemon with Earthquake like Hippowdon are at the top of the list but lose to Air Balloon variants (the most common), however without Air Balloon they work well. Defensive Gliscor can still win even with Air Balloon if it has a move to pop the Air Balloon like Facade/Aerial Ace so is arguable the most solid Excadrill counter. Rotom-W is a good counter as it can take any boosted hit and use Hydro Pump for a OHKO, beware the shaky accuracy though. Azumarril, Conkeldurr, Technitop and Breloom can all check it with priority. Bronzong can take anything it throws out, Gyro Ball then Earthquake to KO. Skarmory can check it, by popping the Air Balloon and blow it away to make it vulnerable to ground attacks. Slowbro and Suicune can both take boosted Earthquakes and even X-Scissors in Slowbro's case and is a reliable counter with Regenerator and Surf/Scald. Impish Gyarados isnt KO'd by anything Air Balloon Dory throws out even after a boost, even Rock Slide (factoring Intimidate and Stealth Rock damage) and can KO with Waterfall. Changing the weather to anything not Sand makes Dory easier to deal with and Scarf Politoed and Abomasnow are great for this purpose, and both outspeed and KO. Drought Ninetales can check too but fears EQ's. Max HP and Defense Hitmontop is a good counter thanks to Intimidate and so are bulky Air Balloon users, for example Terrakion, Magnezone and Heatran. Weezing can also counter Excadrill with its fire moves or Will-O-Wisp. Whimsicott can Encore it into Swords Dance or Earthquakes and Sub Seed it to death. As far as blocking its Rapid Spin, Eviolite Dusclops and Cohagrigus are the best bet.

Excadrill @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk) / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Return

(505 105 140 95 55 65 45 Fighting)

---Conkeldurr---

Conkeldurr is another exceedingly powerful gen 5 Pokemon. Its bulk, immense power and Mach Punch for revenge killing things like Excadrill and Terrakion are clear reasons enough why its on ALOT of teams and top 10 in usage. After a Bulk Up you wont be breaking through this Pokemon at all with physical attacks and it can heal too with its very powerful Drain Punch which actually lets it outstall standard Hippowdon without Roar aka the best physical wall in the game. Not only that but if it gets Guts boost hardly anything will stop it sweeping.

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Stone Edge / Payback

This is the Conkeldurr set you will see most often, the Bulk Up set. Send it in on something like Ferrothorn and then Bulk Up on the switch and Drain Punch to heal off damage. Mach Punch is for some quick kills as well picking off frail Scarfers like Heatran. It also allows you to revenge kill some massive threats like Excadrill, Heatran, Terrakion and Hydreigon. The last slot is what you want to hit, Stone Edge is probably the better option as it hits flying types and Payback was nerfed to only 50 power on switch ins this gen. However, it does let you beat things like Jellicent 1vs1 and Latias and it hits Golurk who resists your whole set otherwise.

Specially based psychics are at the top of the counters list, for example; Lati@s, Espeon, Slowbro, Reflect Cresselia, Reflect Celebi and Reuniclus all work and can OHKO with either Draco Meteor or Psychic respectively. Claydol and Sheer Force Nidoqueen can both beat it 1vs1 with Psychic and Earth Power and take little damage. Gyarados wins without Stone Edge and can Roar it away or DD up, Taunt to stop Bulk Ups and then Bounce for heavy damage. Conkeldurr also has problems with Cohagrigus who can use Shadow Ball and tank hits with its awesome base 145 Defense and Haze away any boosts. Weezing can do similar things. Just dont burn Conkeldurr with either. LO Chandelure can check it and can OHKO most of the time with a LO Fire Blast. Salamence can switch in and Intimidate and OHKO with LO/Choice Specs Draco Meteor's. Whimsicott can switch in on Bulk Up and Encore to laugh at it too. Both Defensive Aerial Ace and offensive Toxic Orb, Fling + Acrobatics Gliscor beats this set 1vs1. Both sets can also Taunt Bulk Ups too, which is recommended to make the match up easier. Checking (or revenging) this set with special attackers who are not weak to Mach Punch if all else fails as they are the most foolproof way to beat it.

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Substitute
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Payback / Stone Edge

Sub Punch Conkeldurr is useful as it packs noticeable immediate power over the first set. Its a basic set, Substitute on switches and forces something to take a Focus Punch from base 140 Attack. Mach Punch is still here to pick off weakened things and still maintain the revenge killing utility and the last slot is what you want to hit again, fliers or ghosts and psychics. Payback has a little more use on this set because on the turn your sub is broken it has base 100 power. Substitute also lessens the need for prediction.

Most of the same checks work here but frail faster ghosts and Psychics will be slaughtered with Payback should they come in on a Sub. Reuniclus still works though as its slower than Conkeldurr so is only hit by a 50 power Payback. Slowbro is also an excellent counter for the same reason. Celebi and Cresselia can also tank hits with Reflect in play which both can set up. Again Gyarados and Salamence cause issues with no Stone Edge and Golurk without Payback. Nidoqueen and Weezing beats this set too handily. Whimsicott is a pain in the ass should it Encore Substitute. Gliscor is probably the most reliable and useful counter though. Revenge killing works when you break its Sub, special based hard hitters are preferable hitting its lower defensive stat.

Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hammer Arm / SuperPower / Drain Punch
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
- Payback

Choice Band Conkeldurr is for even MORE immediate power. Hammer Are and SuperPower rip into anything that doesn't resist them, 2hkoing things like Skarmory and Hippowdon. Stone Edge and Payback are both present so you can hurt common switch ins which threaten Conkeldurr and you still maintain Mach Punch which is very powerful with this set.

The same counters and checks as mentioned before work here but if Conkeldurr predicts correctly you will be in for a world of hurt. Bulky Psychics are still its #1 counters. Reuniclus, Cresselia, Celebi, Slowbro etc, they all work and take little damage. Skarmory can check this set and nail Conkeldurr with Brave Bird but will die if it is locked into one of the STAB moves on the first slot. Claydol, Weezing and Nidoqueen are all great counters counter again too. Gliscor walls this set easily and can hit back with Acrobatics or Aerial Ace. Gyarados, Salamence and Lati@s serve as decent checks. Conkeldurr is also very easy to revenge kill so anything faster that can hit hard works.

Dream World : Iron Fist

(600 92 105 90 125 90 98 Dragon/Dark)

---Hydreigon---

Hydreigon is a great new Pokemon. It has all the essentials to be a top tier threat, which is exactly what it is, good typing, stats, Levitate, a fantastic movepool, bulk and great offenses. Hydreigon even has numerous advantages over things like Salamence who he is often compared with. Its able to scout with U-Turn, Taunt, use Cheer Up even Thunderwave and not lose 25% of its health each time it switches into SR and even has 15 more base special attack than Salamence. Its also not Pursuit weak like the Lati twins and can actually use its physical offense. Hydreigon can do many many things and do all of them well and it should always be accounted for during team building it has the potential to severely cripple ANY team be it stall or offense.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- U-Turn / Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse

These are Hydreigon's most common and destructive sets, as a choice user. It has the coverage, speed and typing to keep switching in and out and putting massive holes in things. Draco Meteor smashes through anything not named Blissey and very bulky steels with Surf and Fire Blast hitting all the said steel for hard damage. Focus Blast is an option too to OHKO Tyranitar, especially bulky versions which are becoming more common. The last slot is up to preference. U-Turn allows it to scout counters whilst Dark Pulse nails psychic and ghost types types who think they can wall it like Cresselia and Jellicent. Dragon Pulse is an option for late game sweeps, especially on the Specs set. Timid is needed on the Scarfer so it can revenge kill things like Haxorus after a Dragon Dance amongst other things.

Blissey, Snorlax and Eviolite Chansey and Porygon2 are the best counters to this set as nothing this set does is going to get past them. Steels can take Draco Meteors well and can threaten to KO, such as Ferrothorn. Specially defensive Emploeon gets a honorary mention as it walls this set completely without the very rare Focus Blast. Specially defensive Tyranitar can take anything this set does apart from Focus Blasts. Revenge killing and checking is alot easier as Hydreigon is very at risk from that. Sp.Def Conkeldurr can come in on the scarfer and threaten with Drain Punch or Mach Punch, Lucario can threaten with Vacuum Wave, Scizor can U-Turn and can take a Draco Meteor or two. Scarfers like Jirachi can check it with their superior speed. ScarfChomp and Scarf Terrakion can revenge kill with ease, ScarfTar can switch into anything bar Surf and KO with SuperPower. Bulky waters like Milotic, Suicune and Tentacruel wall the scarfer.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast / U-Turn
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse

This is Hydreigon's Life Orb set. With this set Hydreigon attempts to abuse its fantastic coverage to punish the majority of the OU metagame and function as a psuedo wall breaker of sorts as hardly anything is going to want to wall this apart from very dedicated special sponges and this set may very well rip apart slower teams because of that. Life Orb also remedy's the previous sets problems of opposing players using resistances to deal with a Choice locked Hydreigon.

All of the counters mentioned previously still work here their attacks + LO recoil will quickly wear down Hydreigon. Blissey, Eviolite Porygon2 and Chansey with Ice Beam or Seismic Toss respectively. Bulky waters struggle taking boosted Draco Meteors now Hydreigon holds a Life Orb though so they must be careful. Steel types can still take Draco Meteors well. Sp.Def Cresselia with Ice Beam can check it reasonably. Scarf Tyranitar also messes this version of Hydreigon up, its not Ko'd by anything and outspeeds and Ko's with SuperPower. Sandstream also makes it die fast with Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock. Base 98 Speed also isnt the best so its very easy to revenge kill. Snorlax once again also a good way to deal with it though repeated Focus Blasts may sting.

(550 85 60 65 135 105 100 Fire/Bug)

---Volcarona---

As fas as special sweeping goes, Volcarona is a top draw special attacker in B/W. Not only is it able to actually get past bulky water counters with the amazing move Quiver Dance, which actually makes every special one set up fodder but it also has base 100 speed and the stats to abuse that with. Bug and Fire have phenomenal coverage and one would do well not to underestimate this VERY powerful bug. Volcarona does have its drawbacks though, namely that crippling 4x Stealth Rock weakness, but then again that can be avoided easier this gen with more ways than ever to stop Stealth Rock going up, namely the Magic Bounce ability. Drought is also a good addition to OU to support Volcarona's sweeping, which lets it 2hko even Blissey after a boost with Fire Blast. Drought also lets Morning Sun be a good healing move. It also resists all priority apart from the rare Extremespeed and Aqua Jet, though neither will KO it in the sun. Some very scary prospect indeed for those facing this moth.

Volcarona @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, - Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Flame Dance / Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Rock/Ground] / Morning Sun / Rest

This is the standard Quiver Dance Volcarona set. Late game, when all the scarfers are gone, Quiver Dance to get +1 SAtk, +1 SpD, +1 Spd and watch as things struggle to deal with you. Bug Buzz and Flame Dance are your STAB moves, the latter of which is Volcarona's signature move. Its a base 80 Fire move which raises Volcarona's special attack stat by +1, making it even scarier. Fire Blast is an option though for sheer power, it can even KO things like Salamence after a single boost with Life Orb. The last slot is all a matter of preference on what you want to hit. Hidden Power Rock hits Salamence and Gyarados and gives you neutral coverage on Heatran who cant do anything to you after a boost. Hidden Power Ground hits Terrakion who otherwise resists the whole moveset, beware of Air Balloons however. Morning Sun (used with the bulkier spread and leftovers) lets it set up and heal on counters better, like bulky waters, its also great to abuse with Flame Body as most physical attacks wont OHKO unless they're booster or Super Effective. Rest works in a similar vein with Chesto Berry which lets you set up on status too.

This set doesn't have that many counters or checks. Poliwrath is at the top of the list with Keldeo as they resist basically everything this set does. Poliwrath is also a physical water, something this set hates and can even PHaze with Overhead Throw. Eviolite Chansey and Blissey are next on the list but need Toxic or Thunderwave to prevail however both fail to the Chesto Rest set. Defensive Gyarados and Salamence/Dragonite also works extremely well. High special defensive or Bug/Fire resistant Thick Fat Pokemon like Snorlax and Hariyama are a massive issue which Volcarona really cannot deal with well. Specially Defensive Politoed serves as a good check as it brings in the rain and can Toxic, Haze, Encore to mess Volcarona up or just Surf for heavy damage. Faster Scarfers like Terrakion and Garchomp serve as awesome checks as they can even beat it speed wise after a Quiver Dance and OHKO with Stone Edge.

(489 74 94 131 54 116 20 Steel/Grass)


---Ferrothorn---

When most people think of gen 5 they think of "wow this sweeper hits so hard" and the "power creep". Ferrothorn is a Pokemon who goes completely against this track of thought and is the polar opposite. Black and White didn't introduce many good defensive threats but Ferrothorn is hands down the greatest defensive addition and arguably the best Pokemon defensively in the game. It has resistances coming out of its rear end, a fantastic ability which punishes physical sweepers, stellar defensive stats and typing and a movepool to match with things like Thunderwave and Spikes. It is one of the few Pokemon who single handedly massacres most rain dance teams and will not go down unless its met with fire or fighting moves, even then it will not go down without a fight. If you don't pack super effective moves for this thorny Pokemon, chances are Ferrothorn is going to outstall and set up on your whole team. Even if you do have super effective hits you will most likely be met with Ferrothorn's partner in crime, Jellicent to take said hits. Take special note to counter both Ferrothorn and the combo it forms with Jellicent when building a team.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Ivs: 0 Speed
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball / Thunderwave / Protect

This is THE set for Ferrothorn and the best thing it does. Anything ranging from DD Kingdra to Suicune and even Metagross and Haxorus isnt getting past this defensive behemoth. It can also choose to take hits from either side of the spectrum with ease additionally. The way it plays is rather simple, switch in on one of the many, many things that cannot hurt it, set up Spikes to punish switch ins, stall every things brains out with Leech Seed and counter many of the metagames top threats. Its no slouch offensively with its very good base 94 attack so Power Whip and especially Gyro Ball (due to base 20 speed) sting. Stealth Rock is an option though too when it cannot be added elsewhere on the team. Protect can be used to help stall and rack up Leech Seed damage whilst Thunderwave cripples sweepers.

Countering Ferrothorn isnt difficult really, what makes it deadly is the long list of which it can set up on. Rapid Spinners stop it doing its job which is to set up entry hazards. Forretress makes a decent counter as its one of the few things that can spin which doesn't fear it, though beware of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed as they will wear down Forry. Hitmontop can use Foresight to bypass spin blockers too and doesn't fear anything Ferrothorn can do and can also hit it with its fighting STAB. Bulky Grass types with Hidden Power Fire make good counters, like Celebi. Heatran and Magnezone are top of the list counters as they take near nothing from anything it does, the latter even traps it making it unable to escape. Conkeldurr and Machamp make it run for the hills as does any powerful fighting type such as Lucario, though Gyro Ball hurts the latter alot despite the resistance. Infernape is in a similar position too. Volcarona can use it as set up fodder as can Chandelure. Scizor makes a good counter as it can U-Turn away from Leech Seeds and resists both of Ferrothorn's STAB movies and can either Swords Dance or just hit it with a SuperPower. Xatu and Espeon get a special mention as they turn all spiking efforts against Ferrothorn with their ability Magic Bounce and both immune to Leech Seed. Espeon is frailer so cant take hits but if it gets in it can maim Ferrothorn with Hidden Power Fire. Xatu can do the same but isnt as frail and can Roost and set up Reflect to make Ferrothorn useless against it.

(580 91 129 90 72 90 108 Rock/Fighting)

---Terrakion---

Terrakion is one of the scariest physical sweepers in the game for both stall and offense. Its rather bulky and makes excellent use of items like the Air Balloon. Its ability to increase both its speed AND attack make it so hard to deal with outrunning scarfers and anything bulky is dealt with by Swords Dance. Still Terrakion is weak to nearly all forms of priority and there are a select few Pokemon who it cant really hurt well but still overlook this beast and it will make quick work of you with its amazing coverage and STAB combination. Beware when spamming dark moves too as Terrakion picks up a +1 Attack boost when hit with them making it hit even harder.

Terrakion @ Life Orb / Air Balloon
Trait: Justified
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat / Sacred Sword
- Stone Edge

The "Double Dance" set is Terrakions most poplar and deadliest set. Rock Polish manhandles offensive teams and takes it to levels of Speed that even Excadrill cannot touch whilst Swords Dance rips through stall. If you get both boosts in you might aswell say "GG" because nothing apart from priority and a VERY select few Pokemon beat it then. Close Combat and Stone Edge are its powerful STAB combination which have very few resists indeed which makes it even harder to wall. Sacred Sword is mainly useful for stat boosters like Snorlax who get cocky and have a couple of Curses as it bypasses stat boosts which could change the game. Earthquake is sometimes used over a stat boosting move, but it doesn't offer good additional coverage.

Countering this set is quite difficult due to the phenomenal coverage. Golurk and Claydol make good counters and resist both its STABS. Bulky psychics like Slowbro, Celebi and Cresselia work very well. Nidoqueen is a fantastic counter. If it hasnt Rock Polished things like ScarfChomp work. Priority is Terrakions downfall though, Scizors Bullet Punch, Lucario's Vacuum Wave, Aqua Jet etc all hit it for Super Effective. Bulkier walls like Hippowdon can KO as long as the Air Balloon is popped. Gliscor can work to an extent too, though boosted Stone Edges really hurt it and Air Balloon hampers it too.

Terrakion @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Sacred Sword / Quick Attack
- X-Scissor

Choice Terrakion is more prediction based than its other sets but it makes a very effective wall breaker and revenge killer with a scarf due to its awesome base 108 speed and sheer power, it is capable of 2hkoing most of the metagame. The two slots are again its amazing coverage STAB moves whilst the last two slots are mainly fillers. Earthquake is an option to hit Metagross and Jirachi but other than that offer semi redundant coverage so Sacred Sword is once again an option. Quick Attack (only to be used on the Choice Bander) to hit faster foes. X-Scissor fills the last slot to hit those pesky psychics hard.

Most of the same counters work here, though X-Scissor makes psychic's life difficult but they can all check it well. Golurk and Nidoqueen are the best overall counters. Things like Gliscor can switch in on anything apart from Stone Edfe. Priority and revenge killing are there as always and this set is alot easier to revenge kill due to it not boosting its speed. Predicting around it with resistances is usually best though. The scarf set is weak so any physical wall not weak to its moves like Hippowdon, Skarmory and the like works.

(600 89 125 90 115 80 101 Ground/Flying)

---Landorus---

With all the hype surrounding Excadrill and its abilities in Sandstorm, many people forget about Landorus and what this genie can do in the sand too. Landorus is one of the most powerful Pokemon in the game and has the most powerful Earthquake too in said sand thanks to its ability Sand Force which gives a 1.3 boost to Rock, Ground and Steel moves during Sandstorm. This means it gets pseudo STAB on Stone Edge making nearly all levitating and flying Pokemon take massive damage from the move. Its movepool maybe a little shallow but it really has more than enough to KO nearly all of its "counters" which it has a distinct lack of. Landorus can also raise its speed and attack to ridiculous levels in the blink of an eye. Its speed is also no let down either with a base 101 speed stat which lets it outspeed arguably the most important benchmark in Pokemon. Landorus is a threat every single team should take note of, i cannot emphasize this enough. If you dont cover this terrifying genie extremely well with something faster and/or an EarthEdge resist it WILL go through your team like a hot knife through butter.

Landorus @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Substitute / U-Turn

This is Landorus's most common set, the Swords Dancer. In sandy conditions nothing is going to want to wall this monster apart from a very select few Pokemon. Earthquake is horribly powerful on this set OHKOing things like Suicune, Swampert and all its other bulky water and ground checks after a boost. Even Hippowdon is OHKO'd with a Life Orb. Stone Edge rips into Skarmory and Gliscor, doing around 70% to both after a boost. The last slot is essentially a filler, because all it needs is the first 3 moves. Substitute does let it set up easier and guards against status and Ice Shard users/revenge killers whilst U-Turn helps wear down checks such as bulky grass types and psychic types and hopefully pop a few Air Balloon users Air Balloons looking to get in on EQ.

Not many things "counter" this set at all. However the best counter is Bronzong as it resists everything and doesn't fear anything this set can do and can 2HKO back with Gyro Ball, though it needs ALOT of defense evs and Relaxed to avoid being 2hko'd by SD LO Stone Edge. Next on the list is Cresselia though that doesnt really like boosted U-Turns. Claydol walls it totally without U-Turn and can hit back with Ice Beam. Regenerator Tangrowth is very large obstacle for Landorus as it can keep healing off the damage easily. Revenge killing and checking is alot easier though, foe Scarf Landorus with HP Ice, Latias and Starmie can all accomplish this task. Ice Shard users drive Landorus away and so do alot of powerful Aqua Jet users and Landorus doesn't exactly like Scizor's CB Bullet Punches. Scarfers are quite a pain too if they are powerful, such as Scarf Politoed who cuts off the sand and brings Landorus's power back down to a more manageable level. Scarf Abomasnow can do the same and can take an Earthquake. Another scarfer/check that annoys this set is Hydreigon. Virizion with HP Ice resists rock and ground and can OHKO Landorus with ease.

Landorus @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Rock Polish Landorus attempts to fix the last one major downfall, revenge killing. After a Rock Polish Landorus's speed rockets up to 660 outspeeding everything in the game. Earthquake and Stone Edge are still here due to their ridiculous power and Hidden Power Ice occupies the last slot to hit the things you can no longer Swords Dance on and overwhelm with Sheer Power, like Gliscor.

This set is ALOT easier to wall. Skarmory wins against this set now it doesnt have Swords Dance and so does Bronzong still. Bulky waters work too like Suicune and Slowbro. Cresselia beats this set and so does Claydol. Tangrowth doesn't really like Hidden Power Ices but that works if it has some special defence Evs. Celebi works with HP Ice or Reflect as do most other bulky grass types which resist Earthquake. Generally this set dislikes physically defensive Pokemon or things that it cant OHKO like bulky levitating scarfers which are neutral or dont take much damage from HP Ice see: Hydreigon. Ice Shard, Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet are still annoying too. HP Ice Virizion also beats this set rather easily and it can tank even HP Ice thanks to its massive special defense.

Landorus @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hammer Arm

Landorus also makes a good choice user thanks to its decent but limited movepool and awesome ability which make Stone Edge and Earthquake monsterously powerful, still 2hkoing most physical walls like Skarmory and Hippowdon respectively with a Choice Band. U-Turn is an option here as it allows you to scout checks and hopefully wear them down. The last slot is a filler basically. Hammer Arm lets you beat Air Balloon users such as Excadrill. Hidden Power Ice lets you destroy Giscor, Flygon, Garchomp, Salamence and the like.

Most of the same counters as before apply here though its easier to predict accordingly and get in on an immunity or resist with this set as Landorus is locked in thanks to the choice item. Bronzong, Skarmory, Tangrowth, Virizion etc all work. Revenge killing works against the Choice Bander and the Scarfer generally doesn't pack as much power as the first 2 sets so Bulky waters wall it to heck and back, along with Hippowdon. Both sets struggle against Gliscor but Hp Ice will mess it up badly. Lati@s can come in on anything not called U-Turn and threaten it. Revenge killing with super effective move, priority or a Scarfer is a good bet too.

(520 60 55 90 145 90 80 Ghost/Fire)



---Chandelure---

Chandelure is massively hyped thanks to its Dream World ability, Shadow Tag and rightly so as its a horrible powerful threat capable of eliminating what ever the user wishes at will. However, that isnt technically legal yet so Chandelure has to stick to other ways to be a threat which it doesn't find problems doing. Flash Fire also gives it another immunity so all is not lost. With base 145 special attack very little wants to take anything Chandelure wants to dish out as it is massively powerful. It also has some of the best STAB moves in the game and a fantastic movepool. Its only real let down is its Stealth Rock weak (which isnt as important as in past gens as its easier to avoid) and its rather mediocre speed, its also vulnerable to Pursuit and that is an issue as Tyranitar resists both of its STAB moves. The fact that Chandelure has quite a few exploitable weaknesses to some common types such as water due to Drizzle Politoeds rise in usage hurts, still Chandelure can a pest if you cannot handle it well and don't have something specially bulky or resistant to its stab moves.

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball

Chandelure is a pretty good choice user as it has alot of coverage with this set to put dents in things and with a Scarf, revenge kill some prominent threats like Lucario. Whilst its not as effective without Shadow Tag, it still gets the job done but requires more prediction to use, rather than the foe just not being able to switch. Shadow Ball and Overheat are the main STAB moves and really destroy anything that isn't either resistant or very specially bulky. Hidden Power Fighting hits the things that don't take much damage from its mian STAB attacks, namely Heatran and Tyranitar. The last slot is essentially a filler but it does have some useful moves to fill it out with. Flamethrower and Fire Blast are for late game sweeps and dont have the nasty -2 sp.att drawback that Overheat does. Energy Ball on the other hand messes with bulky waters like Suicune and Milotic thinking they can wall your attacks.

Blissey is this sets biggest counter along with Snorlax. Tyranitar can switch in on anything that isnt Hidden Power Fighting and Pursuit it. Scizor can also Pursuit it if its locked in on Hidden Power Fighting or Shadow Ball. Heatran resists both its STAB moves and so does Hydreigon so can be huge pains to this set, bear in mind both are weak to Hidden Power Fighting though. Bulky waters like Tentacruel, Milotic and Suicune make good counters as they wall everything apart from Specs Shadow Balls and Energy Balls. Garchomp and Terrakion are also a nasty for for Chandelure as they can easily come in, can take any hit from anything really, outspeed and Ko, especially if Scarfed. Politoed and the rest of rain teams really nerf Chandelure's fire moves too. Excadrill can revenge kill additionally.

Chandelure @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) or Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Substitute

Chandelure is one of the only ghosts to get Calm Mind so it can make a useful sweeper too. Calm Mind late game when everything faster is gone and then watch as hardly anything can wall you as even most waters cannot do acceptable damage with a boost. Flamethrower and Shadow Ball are the STAB moves of choice again for Chandelure whilst the last slot is for what you want to beat. Hidden Power Fighting lets you beat Tyranitar and Heatran whilst Substitute lets you scout and set up on Blissey and status.

The exact same counters and checks work here really as before to Chandelure apart from Scizor and Blissey. Bulky waters work, Milotic can Haze or Dragon Tail away boosts, Suicune can Calm Mind with you or Roar to rack up Stealth Rock damage. Snorlax can Crunch, Earthquake or Whirlwind it. Physical Scarfers are in an even better position to beat this set too as Chandelure is slower and thus easier to revenge kill and bypass its CM boosts, such as Garchomp and Terrakion. Excadrill can revenge kill without a Sub. Politoed has the option of being Scarfed or specially defensive neither of which Chandelure likes. Heatran can Roar and resists the whole moveset if Chandelure is not packing HP Fighting.

Chandelure @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Substitute
- Pain Split / Hidden Power Fighting

This set is a balance between offense and defense for Chandelure and it lets it beat some of its biggest counters whilst doubling as an anti spin. The two main STAB moves are here again and when backed up with the power of a Life Orb really hurt. Substitute is here for scouting and is easy to set up on things like Ferrothorn and Forretress and casts a guard over Chandelure from status which blocks Blissey off completely and if Toxic Spikes are down she will really be put on the back foot. Pain Split lets Chandelure heal from LO recoil and Sub damage whilst also stripping HP from counters to wear them down and lets it go toe to toe with things like Blissey. Hidden Power Fighting is a good choice too to hit Tyranitar, Hydreigon and Heatran hard.

Again many of the aforementioned counters work here. Be careful though, this set has alot of power and Pain Split makes some of the tussles with bulky waters close as it wears them down, the exact same goes for Blissey especially if Toxic Spikes are present. Whirlwind/Crunch/Earthquake Snorlax works and so do sp.def bulky waters like Milotic and Tentacruel. Scarfers are useful once again like Hydreigon, Garchomp and the like, same with Excadrill just avoid coming in on Subs. Drizzle Politoed is a thorn in Chandelure's side. Heatran walls everything this set can do apart from HP Fighting and has Earth Power to put Chandelure out of action permanently. Tyranitar works in a similar vein as do alot of other rock types in the sand with their special defense boosted.

(540 76 147 90 60 70 97 Dragon)



---Haxorus---

Haxorus is the second most powerful physical dragon in the game with a whopping base 147 Attack stat. Even some steels shy away from this things Outrage because its just that damn powerful. It has 2 ways to boost its spectacular attack even further thanks to Dragon Dance and Swords Dance. Alot of people compare it to Garchomp and Salamence but this is completely wrong way to go about things. Haxorus has alot of selling points over the aforementioned, firstly its base attack lets it net many KO's the others cannot and beat things the others cannot with physical sets, such as Hippowdon. It also doesn't have a crippling 4x Ice weakness which makes revenge killing it alot harder. Not only this but it has access to some game breaking moves like Taunt and 2 amazing abilities to choose from, Mold Breaker screws levitating steels like Bronzong whilst Rivalry lets it 2hko anything in the game with a boost with Outrage, even bulky steels. Haxorus may have shallow movepool but it has good coverage and is extremely scary indeed with what it has.

Haxorus @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Trait: Mold Breaker / Rivalry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA) / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw / Dual Chop
- Earthquake
- Brick Break / Rock Slide

Haxorus is a fantastic hit and run user as its stats suggest. Switch in, wreck things and switch back out to wear the opponent down. It can pull off both a Band and Scarf set extremely well thanks to its sky high Attack stat and good speed too. Outrage is the main move here which tears through anything non resistant and even some who do resist it with Earthquake for coverage on the bulky steel types. Dual Chop and Dragon Claw are for late game sweeps and also scouting, Dual Chop also has the additional value of sub breaking. The last slot is rather a filler but it does have some use. Bick Break takes out Ferrothorn who is perhaps the only non Immune steel who doesn't lose to Earthquake. Brick Break beats Air Balloon using steels too whilst Rock Slide beats Gyarados, especially defensive ones, without having to lock yourself in on Outrage.

Skarmory is the best counter to Choice versions as nothing Haxorus can do touches it. Physically Defensive Forretress with Gyro Ball is also rather a good counter but is easy to wear down due to no recovery. Ferrothorn works if it avoids Brick Breaks whilst Bronzong works if it avoids Mold Breaker Earthquakes. Sturdy Steels are good checks with Air Balloon such as Metagross. Revenge killing is alot easier however and many things can do this, such as scarfers like Hydreigon and things like Ice Shard Mamoswine. Scizors Bullet Punch does a number to Haxorus too who serves as a good check.

Haxorus @ Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker / Rivalry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Brick Break

Haxorus is also a great end game sweeper who by chance is a great wall breaker too. Haxorus is very lucky in that is has access to two powerful stat up moves to chose from, Dragon Dance or Swords Dance. Dragon Dance is better for sweeping as the speed boost is extremely helpful late game whilst the Swords Dancer is better as a pure wall breaker as even steels arent taking +2 LO Outrages, everything else will be OHKO'd no questions asked. Outrage is the STAB move of choice for sweeping again rounded of with Earthquake for coverage. The last slot is occupied to give the select few Pokemon who wall this set issues. Taunt shuts down Skarmory and lets you stat up on status users which is very helpful, Brick Break on the other hand is used for Ferrothorn and certain steel Balloon users such as Heatran.

Ferrothorn is the best counter to stat up Haxorus as the powerful dragon cant do acceptable damage back to it before Gyro Ball massacres it back, though Brick Break does massive damage. Gyro Ball Forretress works in a similar manner. Skarmory is a great check, Brave Bird and Drill peck do a ton of damage, especially with LO recoil and possible Sandstorm but it must attack to beat Haxorus due to a possible Taunt. Apart from that though nothing likes countering this set too much. Checking and revenge killing is easier again. Scarf Hydreigon outspeeds it even after a Dragon Dance and other fast powerful Scarf users can be issues. Priority is also annoying especially Ice Shard and Bullet Punch from the likes of Scizor who again makes a great check. The faster Excadrill and other bulky steel Air Balloon users are big problems facing Haxorus if it wishes to sweep.

(480 100 60 70 85 105 60 Water/Ghost)



---Jellicent---

Jellicent was a solid new defensive Pokemon introduced in B/W and serves as a fine replacement spin blocker to the Rotom formes as they lost their ghost typing this generation, infact its probably the premier anti spin in OU. Hardly any Rapid Spinner is going to get past this due to its incredible bulk. Not only that but it gets Recover, a wonderful move for this sturdy ghost and a move which makes it stand out as a defensive threat along with other great moves like Will-o-Wisp, Scald, Taunt and Toxic. Jellicent also counters some of the games biggest threats such as most Swift Swimmers, Heatran, Infernape and many, many more and along with Ferrothorn not alot breaks the combo they form.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk) / Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald / Surf
- Recover
- Taunt / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Taunt

This is the most common and best set Jellicent uses. With this set its both a bulky water and a rapid spin blocker all in one and a general pain to take out with Recover and its great bulk. Scald and Surf are the main STAB of this set and the former has a lovely 30% burn chance. Shadow Ball is the secondary STAB and is useful for hitting other Jellicent along with psychics and the like. Ice Beam on the other hand is used for hitting dragons and grass types on the switch in. In the last slot Toxic or Will-O-Wisp are useful for status and to annoy counters. Toxic is generally a good move and puts anything it hits on a timer, whilst Will-O-Wisp is good for a guaranteed burn and crippling physical sweepers if you don't like relying on Scald to burn things, especially Pursuit users. Lastly Taunt (seen with the faster ev spread to outspeed Skarmory) is a fantastic move on Jellicent and is useful in either of the last 2 slots, it shuts down Blissey completely and it also stops Forretress and the like laying entry hazards on you.

Electric types in general are the best counter, things like Rotom-W, Thundurus and Zapdos etc annihilate Jellicent with ease though they must avoid Toxic on the switch. Blissey can Toxic it if its not packing Taunt, infact Toxic in general really puts a timer on Jellicent's stalling ability this also extends to Toxic Spikes. Grass types like Celebi, Breloom and Virizion dont particularly care about anything it can do and all can set up or wear it down on it one way or another. Special Dark and Ghost types like Zoroark and Gengar are a nuisance Jellicent needs to watch out for. Calm Mind sweepers can set up on it with no issues at all most times, for example Jirachi, Latias and Raikou can do this with relative ease.

(580 91 90 72 90 129 108 Grass/Fighting)

---Virizion---

Virizion is a strange Pokemon, it has great typing and bulk with decent offenses and great speed. All this together is rather rare in a single Pokemon and makes Virizion very solid, serving as a good check to several powerful Pokemon like Garchomp and Landorus. It can attack from both sides of the spectrum and has a very good movepool so it is pretty versatile too.

Virizion @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain / Grass Knot
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Calm Mind Virizion is the most common set it can run. This set has surprisingly very good coverage and can set up on alarming amount of Pokemon with Calm Mind thanks to its bulk and typing. Giga Drain and Grass Knot is your main grass STAB, the former now has 75 base power which makes it a good psuedo healing move whilst the latter hits heavy Pokemon harder. Focus Blast is for secondary STAB and massacres the steels looking to come in and really hammers Blissey hard. The last slot is up to preference, Hidden Power Ice is the most useful move as it takes all the problematic things, such as dragons, Landorus and Celebi for example.

Psychic types are at the top of the list though as far as counters go, Reuniclus and things like Jirachi and Metagross pose great annoyances as they can hit its lower defense with Psyshock or Zen Headbutt respectively. Even Meteor Mash and Iron Heads will hurt alot. Latias can Calm Mind up along side Virizion and Roar it away. Toxic and Toxic Spikes will greatly hinder Virizion too. Although rare physical flying types can be extremely annoying such as Crobat and Tornadus. Virizion doesn't really like fire types either, Blazken and Infernape will destroy it. Tentacruel is immensely irritating as Virizon literally cannot touch it and if it uses Giga Drain it hurts itself thanks to Tentacruels Liquid Ooze, not to mention Tentacruel has poison STAB which Virizion fears greatly. Weezing is in the same vein as it too has Poison STABS and can Clear Smog or Haze away any boosts Virizion gets. Scizor is a good check as Bullet Punch and U-Turn does massive damage and Virizion cannot KO in return.

Virizion @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Leaf Blade

Swords Dance Virizion hits from the opposite side of the spectrum to the CMer. Swords Dance Virizion is just as effective as the CMer and has an even higher damage output and makes usual counters like Specially Defensive Jirachi pay dearly. Its also much better at taking on Gyarados and the like. Close Combat is your main STAB and hammers anything not resistant to it and to complement it coverage wise is Stone Edge which rips into Flying nemesis. Leaf Blade takes out bulky waters, grounds etc and also rips into the psychic types like Reuniclus looking to wall you, beware though as it wont OHKO.

Most of the previous counters still work here. Psychic types with a bit of physical bulk are this sets greatest nemesis and without Leaf Blade it loses to Slowbro too. Gliscor and Skarmory dont care about anything this set can do and both can OHKO in return with Brave Bird or Acrobatics, but both take alot of damage. Latias once again can Roar it away, but Stone Edge will hurt without Reflect. Again any faster flying foe will hurt it alot. Nidoqueen and Weezing are pretty much full stops to this set and both can rid boosts or just hit it with their Fire or STAB moves. Scizor can hit it hard with Bullet Punch as can Mamoswine with Ice Shard.

580 79 115 70 125 80 111 (Electric/Flying)

---Thundurus---

Thundurus is one of the scariest special sweepers in the game. It has access to Nasty Plot and awesome dual offensive stats which allow it to go mixed and speed which let it rip though just about everything. Unlike most electrics it also has a rather decent movepool with some cool coverage moves like Grass Knot and Hammer Arm and Focus Blast. What makes Thundurus a true threat though is its great ability Prankster which gives non attacking moves like Substitute, Taunt and Thunderwave priority which can make it immensely annoying for slower teams and even for offensive ones who cant afford their sweepers crippled by Thunderwave. It does have its down sides though namely its frailty and Stealth Rock weakness, though when supported well it can be a true monster.

Thundurus @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, - Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast / Taunt

This set is Thundurus's most common, the Nasty Plot sweeper. Hardly anything defensive is going to tank this things hits after a boost and it doesn't have many counters. Thunderbolt is the best option for STAB accompanied by Hidden Power Ice to hit those pesky ground and Dragon's hard. The last slot is occupied by either Focus Blast to nail Tyranitar, Excadrill, Ferrothorn and the like and for more neutral coverage or Taunt to shut down set up attempts and cripple walls, which puts Blissey out of action totally and makes it mere set up bait.

Not much really beats this set but special sponges are at the top of the list. Ice Beam/Seismic Toss Blissey and Eviolite Chansey work very well, though Blissey with just Flamethrower will lose if its Taunted and cannot status it hence why Ice Beam and Seismic Toss are mentioned specifically. Swampert is probably the best overall counter as nothing this set can do really phazes it and its Ice Beam hurts Thundurus very much, beware Grass Knot but hardly any use that. Latias can switch in with its very good special defense and put a massive dent in Thundurus even when Latias is defensive. Virizion can hit it with Hidden Power Ice or Stone Edge and has a marvellous base 129 special defense stat to soak up hits. Obscure things like Cradily in SS and other bulky rock types like Regirock and Tyranitar can also cause headaches if it lacks Focus Blast. Scarf Dragons destroy Thundurus and so make very good checks, Flygon, Garchomp, Hydreigon and Haxorus are all great scarfers and all bring the pain onto the electric genie, Scarf Landorus, Tyranitar, Terrakion and Magnezone can all check it similarly. Excadrill can check it in the sand too with Rock Slide and once again walls it totally without Focus Blast. Ice Sharders are annoying too, especially Mamoswine who walls Thundurus without Focus Blast.

Thundurus @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, - Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Just because Thundurus gets Nasty Plot that doesn't mean he has to use that, his potential goes far beyond stat up sweeping. This set makes a fantastic revenge killer and general hard hitter and fully abuses Thundurus's coverage with Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast to hit dragons, Gliscor and other ground types and Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Excadrill respectively. With a Choice Scarf Thundurus can revenge kill alot of things, this list includes and is not limited to; swift swim sweepers, DD Dragons, Special Lucario, Gyarados, Tyranitar and many many more. However with Choice Specs it becomes very powerful being able to 2HKO many walls at worst. The biggest change here from previous sets is Volt Switch, which lets Thundurus nail and scout its counters and checks and switch out all it one turn. Though beware of ground types as you cannot Volt Switch on those at all.

Special walls are the best stop to this set. Chansey and Blissey stop Thundurus cold as does Swampert. Ground types in general pose a threat as they totally stop Volt Changing tactics and if they get in an electric move they get a free turn which is very bad as threats like Garchomp loom at every corner and Excadrill will always make an annoyance out of itself. Latias makes a decent check additionally. Ice Sharders such as Mamoswine but a massive dent in the set too so should be avoided at all costs.

Thundurus @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, - Atk)
- Taunt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderwave / Focus Blast


This Voltlos set is often seen leading and for good reason. It totally abuses the fantastic Prankster ability and the scouting ability of Volt Switch to give momentum to the user and hut down other leads. Taunt is here once again to totally shut down set ups with STAB Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice as the best coverage option. The last slot use is essentially up to how the user seem fit, Thunderwave gets priority so can be used to mess with a sweepers mind and cripple it whilst Focus Blast is here as an option once again to nail problematic Pokemon like Tyranitar who is common as a lead and is essential if Thundurus wants to "anti lead" it.

Thundurus @ Expert Belt
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spd, - Def)
- Thunderbolt
- Hammer Arm
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt / U-Turn

Unlike most special sweepers, Thundurus can use its physical attack stat too. Often Thundurus has issues with Blissey and other specially defensive Pokemon. This set rememdys that problem as well as acting as a wall breaker for the team. Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice are here for coverage, the same as the last set. Hammer Arm lets it 2hko 252/252 Bold Blissey, Ferrothorn and Snorlax and is more reliable accuracy wise than Focus Blast. The last slot is up to what the player wants. Taunt stops set up attempts and U-Turn lets you wear down counters with SR and it helps with scouting counters.

(488 65 90 115 45 115 58 Fight/Dark)

---Scrafty---

Scrafty is one of many hidden gems in Black & White with two wonderful abilities, paired with great typing as he’s only 2x weak to fighting and flying. This typing gives it some fantastic resistances which lets it totally wall things like Tyranitar and it comes with a great immunity which is very useful indeed as Psychic types are increasing in popularity. Scrafty has got considerable bulk and a great two STABs that are only resisted by two pokemon: Toxicroak and Heracross. This all considered along with its HUGE movepool which includes the great Dragon Dance amongst others make Scrafty quite a threat indeed.

Scrafty @ Leftovers
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Rest

Scrafty’s Bulk Up set is by far its most common. It’s obvious as to why too with its great STAB combination along with the fact Scrafty is one of the handful of Pokemon who can abuse Rest without Sleep Talk to its maximum effect, thanks to its amazing ability Shed Skin, which gives it a 51% chance to wake up early over the two turns Resting. Bulk Up lets you take hits well from both sides of the spectrum whilst increasing its mediocre attack stat at the same time. Drain Punch gives you a psuedo healing move which means you don't have to Rest as much. Crunch is here for a reliable STAB.

Your best counters to this set are powerful Fighting type like Conkeldurr, Machamp and Breloom. Terrakion also gets a special mention as Sacred Sword bypasses Scrafty's defensive stat boosts whilst Lucario and Virizion can hit its unboosted special defensive with their special fighting moves. Gyarados and Salamence are also good counters, resisting one of its STAB moves and with Intimidate cancel out an attack boost from Bulk Up. Gyarados can also phaze him out with Dragon Tail or Taunt, Dragon Dance and then Bounce. Gliscor with Acrobatics can do a great deal to this set as well as. Skarmory can heavily damage with Brave Bird/Drill Peck or just Whirlwind. Avoid relying on burn with Will-O-Wisp as it will not work because of Rest and Shed Skin. Scizor and Hippowdon also give Zuru some heat. Weezing and Amoonguss can Clear Smog away boosts. Suicune and Milotic can PHaze him away with their good defenses. Whimsicott is also an issue with Encore, Leech Seed and Taunt.

Scrafty @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Dance
- Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Ice Punch / Taunt

(490 110 65 75 125 85 30 Psychic)

---Reuniclus---

Reuniclus is an unexpected nuisance. Despite having an awful Psychic defensive typing, this green blob has quite a bit of bulk thanks to it’s access to a reliable recovery move, and its ability Magic Guard (prevents any and all indirect damage except Rough Skin and Iron Barbs). His ability allows for easy switch-ins without worry to entry hazard damage, no life orb recoil, and the ability to absorb statuses without damage over time. On top of that, Reuniclus has a good base special attack sitting at 125 and has access to Psyshock to deal with the common switch ins like Blissey.

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Focus Blast

This set is Reuniclus’s most threatening. It utilizes his access to Recover and his decent bulk. After a few Calm Minds, not much can actually stop this monster. It also kills Blissey with Psyshock, but it might opt for Psychic as it beats Blissey anyway.

The most reliable counters to this set are Celebi with Perish Song; Scizor; CBTar; CM + Reflect Latias; Spiritomb; Wobbuffet; Deoxys-D with Taunt + Night Shade or Seismic Toss; and Shubarugo. Trick also beats it and other Psychic/Steels like Metagross and Jirachi can hit it with sheer power or CM up with it and beat it 1 vs one respectively. Encore also shuts this set down.

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Def
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spe)
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room

Because Reuniclus’s speed is horrid, he’s able to run a Trick Room set pretty well. This set is similar to the Choice Specs set, save the x.02 boost that LO doesn’t have. The thing that makes this set more threatening is it ruins offensive play styles by reversing speeds and hits pretty much all of its checks hard.

Luckily, most of Reuniclus’s counters are fairly slow anyway and Scizor even has access to a 2HKO bullet punch which is unaffected by the speed switch. This set deals with checks and counters the best because of the ability to switch moves freely, so Shadow Ball can easily be chosen.

Reuniclus @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

With Reuniclus’s high Special Attack, and the instant threat of one of its three moves coming off a Specs boost is pretty threatening. However this set definitely has its weaknesses just like any other choice user and these can be exploited easily due to the moves Reuniclus uses.

After discovering that Reuniclus is choiced, prediction should be a cinch, and it’s a matter of team composition after that. Avoid switching in a wall right away because its entirely possible he’ll trick. The same counters as before work well and are even easier to make use of once Rank is locked into an attack. Spiritomb isn’t as useful against this set however because of Rankursu’s access to Shadow Ball, but he’s still extremely useful at countering. Pursuit from Tyanitar and Scizor also destroys this version of Ranukurusu so be careful.

(600 100 100 100 100 100 100 Psychic/Fire)


---Victini---

Victini @ Life Orb
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Searing Shot / Fire Blast
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock / Psychic

Victini @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- V-Create
- Fusion Bolt
- Brick Break
- U-Turn / Zen Headbutt

(510 65 125 60 95 60 105 Fighting)


---Mienshao ---

Mienshao has some nice tools up its sleeves (pun intended). Both its resistance to Stealth Rock and its Regenerator ability (restores 1/3 of health upon switching out) allow it to virtually ignore any damage taken from entry hazards as well as Life Orb (which it is most commonly run with). Mienshao possesses access to the move Hi Jump Kick, that when coming off its high base attack (125) and gaining as STAB bonus can be extremely devastating to just about any pokemon that take neutral from it. However, its defenses are extremely low at 65/60/60 and it can’t take much before having to switch out.

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Fake Out / Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hi Jump Kick

LO Mienshao is by far its most common set. He is able to function as both a lead and a sweeper (although a fragile one) and can devastate most pokemon with a Fake Out followed by any of its other attacks. With Regenerator, Mienshao benefits heavily from U-Turn and can do decent damage while also recovering a good portion of its health. Stone Edge is run to prevent Mienshao from being entirely walled by the likes of Salamence or Gyarados. Hidden Power Ice KO's Gliscor.

Cohagrigus is possibly Mienshao’s biggest and most effective counter. Cohagrigus can burn with Will-O-Wisp and eliminate Mienshao’s Regenerator with Mummy. With the right predictions, Cohagrigus (and any other ghost for that matter) can effectively destroy Mienshao by guaranteeing a miss with Hi Jump Kick which takes 50% of Mienshao’s total health. Gyarados and Salamence can handle Mienshao well too, as long as you stay weary of a possible Stone Edge.

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 6 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 6 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Swords Dance
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Baton Pass / Hidden Power [Ice] / Taunt

(480 60 67 85 77 75 116 Grass)

---Whimsicott---

Find yourself getting Rock Polish'd upon by Terakion or Dragon Dance'd upon by Salamence all the time, and then getting swept?

No worries! Try Whimsicott, the end-all be-all of stat-uppers. This Pokemon has the ability Prankster, meaning that all of its non-attacking moves gets +1 priority. They DD? Encore it, then set up a Substitute and Leech Seed away as they can do nothing to you. Really, Whimsicott is a giant ass to anything that has any kind of set-up move, or just any team without a Grass-type. There's not a lot that stops Whimsicott full-on... except Grass-types.

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, - SAtk)
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Encore / Taunt
- Stun Spore / Toxic

It's simple - bring it in on something trying to stat-up or use SR or something, and Encore it. From there you can Substitute and Leech Seed, wearing away anything and everything. Priority Stun Spore also helps Whimsicott be an annoying bastard. The difference between Encore and Taunt is minimal - Taunt helps stop things like Ferrothorn setting up Spikes, but overall it's significantly less useful than Encore because simply Taunting set-up moves gives them a chance to attack you with boosted stats.

If you don't have a Grass-type to scare off Whimsicott, you're going to have to lose a Pokemon or two to whittle away its Substitute PP. Icicle Spear, Double Chop, and other multi-hit moves also break away its subs and give it significant troubles. Other faster Prankster Taunters like Tornados and Thundurus stop Whimsicott totally.


(480 105 140 55 30 55 95 Fire)

---Darmanitan---

Darmanitan is the definition of Generation V power creep. An absolutely monstrous base 140 Attack stat, followed by a solid base 95 Speed stat and a satisfactory physical movepool basically defines "power". Its ability, Sheer Force, boosts its Flare Blitz to even higher levels while also removing any Life Orb recoil. However, despite its power, Darmanitan remains non-relevant in the Gen V metagame because of its awful SR weakness and by being an easy target for priority moves.

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band / Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Superpower / Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Sheer Force boosts most of the moves on this set, and provides for a superpowerful Flare Blitz. U-turn allows Darmanitan to act like a scouter, and Superpower & Rock Slide are for coverage, though you'll be clicking Flare Blitz most of the time regardless. The items each completely change the set - Choice Scarf provides a boost to speed in which Darmanitan is lacking, though there are still other scarfers that outrun him. Choice Band gives Darmanitan an enormous power boost, giving it the capability to 2HKO bulky waters like Vaporeon, Milotic, and Jellicent, as well as Dragon-types like Garchomp (although you certainly won't be staying in on it for the second hit). Life Orb offers a slightly less powerful boost, though it no longer has recoil through Sheer Force and it gives you the capability to change attacks (and it can feign Choice Band because it no longer has recoil). The choice between Superpower and Earthquake is basically whether or not you want Levitators to be able to come in for free on your move or whether you want the -1 Attack and Defense drops. Regardless, the move of choice slaps Tyranitar and Heatran who both enjoy coming in on Darmanitan's Flare Blitz (slightly less so Tyranitar, but still). Jolly can be used if you want to outspeed +Speed Lucario and Suicune, but neither of those are relevant at all in this metagame so it's generally pointless.

Darmanitan's biggest weakness is alternate damage - between recoil from Flare Blitz, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and weather, it won't be living much longer than a couple turns. Darmanitan is incredibly vulnerable to priority of all kinds (save Bullet Punch), and its mediocre speed means that anything that can outspeed (read: other scarfers) can come in and smash it. Bulky waters that can take a Flare Blitz can come in and threaten it with their Water-type move of choice, though it's not getting burned by Scald anytime soon.
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  #2    
Old January 3rd, 2011 (07:24 PM). Edited June 6th, 2011 by Dark Azelf.
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,041
(580 91 72 90 129 90 108 Water/Fight) (unreleased event)

---Kerudio---

Kerudio @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Heart of Justice
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Sword of Mystery
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric/Dark]

(600 71 120 95 120 95 99 Bug/Steel) (unreleased event)


---Genosekuto---

Genosekuto @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 74 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Genosekuto @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Download
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt / U-Turn / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Beam

Genosekuto @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn / Explosion / Thunderbolt

( 580 79 115 70 125 80 111 Flying)

---Tornadus---

Tornadus is the first pure Flying-type that Game Freak has introduced, and has plenty of power behind it, like all three of the legendary genies. It has a speed statistic that is enough to laugh at a lot of top threats, such as Infernape and Garchomp, and has a new powerful move called Hurricane that receives full accuracy in the weather- a common factor in most Gen 5 Battles. In addition, Hurricane is a top move this generation because of all of the bulky fighting types that were introduced by Game Freak. This combination of power and speed, along with Tornadus' high Special Attack stat, makes it a potent special attacker in OU. However, Tornadus is weak to Stealth Rock, which dwindles its health down constantly. Tornadus also has below average defensive stats, making it susceptible to moves like Ice Shard and Bullet Punch that can take it down.

Tornadus @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Trait: Prankster
Timid Nature (+ Spe, - Atk)
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn / Taunt

This is Tornadus' best possible set, combining its powerful Special Attack and Speed to unleash devastating forces on the opponent. Specs is the preferred item because with it, Hurricane can hit like a truck, dealing 70% to the standard Kabutops (who resists it, might I add) and being able to 2HKO the standard Nattorei without residual damage factored in. You can use Choice Scarf to help outspeed many threats (Choice Scarf Tornadus is capable of outspeeding even a Shell Smash Cloyster !) Focus Blast is used as a method of hitting Tyranitar and other bulky rock types that hope to come in and resist Hurricane. Hidden Power Ice is used to hit Thundurus as well as Zapdos, who otherwise check the set decently. Air Slash on the other hand is a reliable STAB move for if the weather isn't up and its not as if Tornadus misses Hidden Power Ice because Specs Hurricane 2hko's most things that resist it such as max HP Zapdos and Rotom-W. U-Turn is a good option for scouting.

Although Tornadus is a formidable threat, there are multiple ways to bring it down. Blissey is one of the best choices as it can paralyze Tornelos whilst taking its attacks and recover off the damage as it attacks back with Seismic Toss or the possible Ice Beam. Snorlax works in a similar fashion, taking on Special Attacks and dishing out Body Slams to hurt and possibly paralyze Tornedus. Bulky Steels like Metagross, Bronzong and Jirachi are some of the best counters, especially the latter two as they are more specially bulky and they can all bring Tornedus down with their STAB moves. Electric types also make a great counter, especially Raikou, which can take any of Tornelos' attacks and bring it down with Thunderbolt. Jolteon also can bring down the Specs and Life Orb sets easily without Air Balloon thanks to its great speed and powerful Thunderbolt, but runs into trouble if Tornelos has HP Ground and a Choice Scarf. Magnezone is somewhat of an answer with a 4x resist to Hurricane, but needs to be wary of Focus Blast and Hammer Arms. Sp.Def Zapdos also makes a great counter, resisting the majority of Tornelos' moves except for the occasional Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-W also works really well and bring it down with a Thunderbolt, beware Specs/Life Orb Hurricane as it 2hko's however. Scizor, Cloyster, Mamoswine, and Azumarill can also all bring down Tornelos with their powerful priority attacks of Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, and Ice Shard. Be careful though, as none of them enjoy taking a Hurricane.

Tornadus @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Prankster
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD) / Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hurricane
- Hammer Arm
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn / Taunt


Gen 4 Pokes who jumped around tiers


---Latios---

Latios @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover / Psyshock

Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Recover / Hidden Power [Fire]

---Latias---

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Surf / Substitute

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Roar / Reflect / Wish
- Calm Mind / Reflect / Thunderwave

Same offensive sets as Latios but outclassed <-Mention.

---Garchomp---

Garchomp @ Yache Berry / Haban Berry / Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Sandveil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang / Substitute

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Trait: Sandveil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang / Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail


---Deoxys-S---

Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magic Coat

Deoxys-S @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Psychic / Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- SuperPower

Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen


---Salamence---

Salamence is easily one of the most threatening sweepers in the OU tier. It was so powerful so that it was banned during gen 4. However Salamence is no longer as broken as it was, due to faster pokemon and a 100% counter in Eviolite P2. However with 135 base Attack and 110 base Special Attack, it can hit hard from both sides of the attacking spectrum very hard and is still a fantastic Pokemon iN B/W. Not only that, but Salamence's typing makes it even better, as dragon is an incredible offensive and defensive type. Salamence has pretty darn good defenses given its power, and Intimidate helps even more. Salamence also has a great movepool filled with attacks like Dragon Dance, Outrage, Draco Meteor, and Roost. Salamence has the tools to abuse several strategies, making it a versatile and potent threat that can destroy any team.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

"DDMence" is arguably Salamence's most destructive set. After a Dragon Dance, Outrage rips through just about every Pokémon that is not a steel-type. Earthquake and Fire Blast take care of those Pokémon, which makes DDMence a tough Pokémon to beat without taking a beating first. Sometimes trainers will forgo Life Orb in favor of Yache Berry, which can spell doom for counters that operate under the assumption that their Ice Beam will always OHKO Salamence.

Bulky waters take a lot of damage from Outrage, but their Ice Beams will knock out Salamence. Porygon2 is a great choice, as Trace reflects Intimidate back at Salamence while Porygon2 can OHKO Salamence with Ice Beam too. Ice Fang Hippowdon does a decent job countering DDMence as does Swampert and Deoxys-D. Dragon Tail Impish Gyarados is a nice check. Air Balloon users such as Heatran and Doryuuzu are annoying for DD Mence too as are things like ScarfChomp, Scarf Landlorus and Scarf Terakion. Scizor can check it with Bullet Punch and Ice Shard KO's it from the likes of Mamoswine. Deoxys-S outspeeds even after a DD. When its locked into Outrage any steel type works really.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

This is a variation of the the Classic MixMence set. With Outrage, Salamence still beats standard special walls that wall Draco Meteor while Earthquake and Fire Blast beat up steel-types. It'll have to worry about Stealth Rock damage a lot more though, as it lacks Roost to regain health. Life Orb recoil also takes its toll, but this version of MixMence hits a little harder in return, and it takes advantage of Salamence's STAB Outrage.

Porygon 2 and Chansey with Eviolite are 100% counters. Steels like Scizor can come in on Draco Meteor whom can drive it away with Bullet Punch or risk being KO'd after SR recoil. Scarf Jirachi with Ice Punch is is a good check as is ScarfTar. Specially Defensive Skarmory can switch in on Draco Meteor and take a -2 Fire Blast. Things that can revenge kill work even better against this set as they force it to die or take more Stealth Rock damage, a good example of something which can do this is Deoxys-S and Doryuuzu.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break
- Roost
- Fire Blast

"MixMence" has been a staple Salamence set for a long time, and it is still a potent mixed sweeper capable of severely damaging stall teams. Its usefulness isn't just limited to stall breaking, as Draco Meteor will hurt sweepers a lot more than it will hurt walls and tanks. This allows MixMence to remain a powerful force in the fast-paced OU metagame. With Fire Blast and Brick Break beating Pokémon that wall Draco Meteor and Roost healing Life Orb recoil, Stealth Rock damage, and any other damage taken, MixMence will stick around for a long time too, and it will still dish out a lot of damage.

Cresselia and Milotic make solid counters as does Sp.def Deoxys-D. Porygon 2 and Chansey with Eviolite are great 100% counters to this set. Burungeru can counter it at high Hp. Tentacruel works, but Draco Meteor really hurts and it has no recovery. Predicting when it will Draco Meteor is usually key, as it is far less threatening with +2 Special Attack and steels are great Pokemon to take these such as specially Defensive Skarmory who can even live the following -2 Fire Blast. Scarf Tyranitar and Jirachi are awesome checks additionally. Defensive Heatran stop this set and Air Balloon Heatran can check it. All of the previously mentioned revenge killers work too such as Excadrill and ScarfChomp.

Salamence @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang / Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw / Aqua Tail / Stone Edge

Much like Choice Band Garchomp does, "CBMence" will net a 2HKO at worst on virtually every single Pokémon in the OU metagame that lacks steel typing given Stealth Rock is in play, making it an immediate threat to any team. Aqua Tail and Earthquake are safer options against many of the walls that lose to Outrage to avoid getting locked in early game, while Fire Fang and Blast takes care of steel-types that get in the way. Dragon Claw is the scouting move and Stone Edge is for Gyarados in that lat slot. The good news is that Stealth Rock takes away 25% of Salamence's health every time it switches in, so it doesn't last too long.

There are no counters for CBMence besides really Porygon2. If you don't have Porygon2, try to outpredict it and try to revenge kill it when it's locked into Outrage, steels such as Skarmory, Nattorie and Bronzong are very useful for this.

Salamence @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost


---Cloyster---

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd or 252 Atk / 40 SAtk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Razor Shell / Hydro Pump
- Rock Blast

Cloyster @ Choice Band
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Explosion / Ice Shard

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Rapid Spin


---Politoed--

Politoed @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Timid (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden power [Electric/Grass]

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hypnosis / Toxic
- Encore / Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Focus Blast


---Venusaur---

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait : Chlorophyll
Evs: 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Growth
- Seed Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Return / Sleep Powder / Earthquake

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait : Chlorophyll
Evs: 6 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]


---Espeon---

Espeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fighting/Fire]
- Shadow Ball

Espeon @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Calm Mind / Grass Knot
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire/Fighting]
- Shadow Ball

Espeon @ Light Clay
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Hp / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire/Fighting]

Espeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Hp / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Psychic / Psyshock

---Ninetales---

Ninetales @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait : Drought
Evs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Protect / Hypnosis
- Will-o-Wisp / Toxic

Ninetales @ Life Orb
Trait : Drought
Evs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting/Ground]
- Nasty Plot

Ninetales @ Choice Specs
Trait : Drought
Evs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Flamethrower


---Toxicroak---

Toxicroak @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch / Substitute

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Trait : Dry Skin
Evs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Wave / Hidden Power [Ice]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch / Payback
__________________
Since the beginning of time, man has sought to know the unimaginable. To shake hands with the intangible. To measure the abstract with concrete gauges, to fit the mind of the infinite within the imagination of the finite. Nevermore.

  #3    
Old February 28th, 2011 (08:40 PM). Edited June 5th, 2011 by Dark Azelf.
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,041
Defensive and Supportive threats for gen 4



---Blissey---

Blissey is the #1 special wall in the game so its reasonable to assume that she is very common. Her ability to take special hits, shut down 99% of all special sweepers and support the team is unrivalled. Her base defense may be lacking but with max def evs she can take a beating as well as CB Scizor so you really do need to pack a punch to get rid of this pink blob. If you have a very specially based team or do not have hard hitting physical sweepers she will probably end up walling your whole team!

Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait : Natural Cure
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Evs: 252 Def / 80 SAtk / 176 SpD
- Softboiled
- Thunderwave / Toxic
- Flamethrower / Ice Beam / Aromatherapy / Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

This moveset is probably the most common Blissey set you will come across. Seismic Toss is her main form off offense and the status is there to deter or cripple things that like to switch into Blissey. She can also choose to hit sweepers with her special attacks of choice, Ice Beam and Flamethrower are the most common to hit the dragons and Gliscor (whom can Taunt her) whilst Flamethrower nails Scizor, Lucario and Breloom etc switch ins. Blissey can also use other fantastic support move such as the oft hailed 'best move in the game' Stealth Rock or even Aromatherapy. Softboiled is the icing on the cake for the games #1 special wall, allowing her to heal herself whenever she wishes making her very tough indeed to ko.

Countering Blissey isnt hard per se, however depending on what she packs she can be annoying to switch into. Hard hitting fighting types are the #1 threat to Blissey. Infernape, Machamp, Lucario and Breloom all pose huge issues to the standard Blissey, Machamp can even get a Guts boost from status or heal it off with Rest Talk whilst Lucario is immune to Toxic and Breloom is semi immune to status thanks to Toxic orb, all three can OHKO her with ease. Just watch out for Flamethrowers in Lucario and Brelooms and status in Infernapes case and you should be fine. Choice Band Scizor and Tyranitar are next on the list, they can either hit her incredibly hard (mostly OHKOing) if she stays in or Pursuit her for heavy damage if she switches. Ground types such as Mamoswine, Flygon and Taunt Gliscor (watch out for Ice Beam!) make life difficult for her additionally being immune to Thunderwave. Metagross poses a problem to Blissey too, though if its Agiligross it wont appreciate being paralyzed, in general though physical attackers are a huge issue for Blissey. Most Rest Talkers outstall Blissey and she sometimes has problems with ghosts with Substitute. Taunt users and Toxic Spikes also cripple her badly and stop her from stalling. 101 HP Sub users (to block s-toss and status) such as Suicune, Jirachi and TyraniBoah also beat her easily 1vs1.


Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait : Natural Cure
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Evs: 252 Def / 80 SAtk / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Protect / Softboiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss / Flamethrower / Ice Beam

Wish Bliss is often seen on stall teams due to her being able to pass Wish around and keep the team healthy whilst still walling 99% of special sweepers. This set functions the same as the first one in regards to supporting the team and using status and Seismic Toss/Special attacks as her means of offence. Protect, Toxic and Wish make this version of Blissey all the more hard to get rid off due to its stalling nature.

All the counters mentioned for the first set work for this one, except its harder to Pursuit her thanks to Protect. Choice users are also less effective here as she can Protect to scout your move and switch to counters on her team so much more easily. Using physical stat up moves on this Blissey causes her immense issues, especially if she Protects as you stat up which may mean you get multiple boosts as she will often switch out after the first stat boost.



---Bronzong---

Bronzong is a fantastic team supporter. It may not be as common as it once was as stall teams have their way easily with it and using it as set up fodder, Scizor being virtually immune to its whole set doesn't help either. Bronzong can still pull its weight however and excels at stopping threats like Metagross and Mamoswine and the dragons due to its bulk. Bronzong is worth its weight in gold if you can use it effectively.

Bronzong @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Trait : Levitate
Sassy Nature
252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Ivs : 0 Speed
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Explosion / Hypnosis

This is the standard Bronzong. Set up Stealth Rock and attack as required. Nothing is fancy about Bronzong in the least but he gets his job done and thats all that matters. Gyro Ball hammers faster sweepers whilst Earthquake gives amazing coverage and nails Infernape and Heatran switch ins aswell as Metagross and other steels. Lum Berry is common on Lead Zong to shut down sleep leads like Roserade, Breloom and Smeargle.

Countering this set isnt that hard, Skarmory, Forretress can all set up on it easily. Rotom-A is virtual immune to its whole set and can burn it, Overheat or just wear it down with its STAB attacks and can even laugh at sleep thanks to Rest Talk. Bulky waters also arent phazed much by it. Gyarados can also set up on it or tank over Bronzong with Rest Talk. As always though, Explosions will remove all of the waters. Zapdos gets a notable mention too due to resistances to near everything, Pressure to sap Gyro Balls PP. Just watch out for Explosion. Infernape and Heatran are also massive issues for this set.

Bronzong @ Light Clay
Trait : Levitate
Relaxed Nature
252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
Ivs : 0 Speed
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion / Stealth Rock / Earthquake

Dual Screen Bronzong serves as great support to offensive teams and can grant your sweepers a free switch in after it Explodes and setting up the screens. This encourages easy set up opportunities for your sweepers behind the screens and gives them bulk for 8 turns thanks to the Light Clay and can potentially take a Pokemon with Explosion too.

The same counters work here really for the first set. However, the screens make Bronzong psuedo impossible to OHKO and so Explosion could take out your counter rather easily. So immunity or resistance to Explosion is fantastic (Rotom-A, Skarm, Forretress most specifically). Taunt also stops this Bronzong doing its job and so does Brick Break, which is reasonably common on Scizor. Heatran is also a great counter.

---Dragonite---

Dragonite@Leftovers
Trait : Multi Scale
248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) / Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw

Dragonite@Leftovers
Trait : Multi Scale
248 HP / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail


---Forretress---

Forretress@Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
Evs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SDef
Ivs: 0 Speed
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball / Earthquake / Volt Switch
- Toxic Spikes / Earthquake / Volt Switch

Forretress@Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Ivs: 0 Speed
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball / Earthquake / Volt Switch
- Toxic Spikes / Earthquake / Volt Switch

---Gliscor---

Gliscor @ Toxic orb
Trait : Poison Heal
Impish Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
- Earthquake
- Protect / Taunt
- Toxic / Taunt
- Ice Fang / Facade

Gyarados

Gyarados@Leftovers
Trait : Intimidate
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Roar / Dragon Tail

Heatran

Heatran@Leftovers
Trait : Flash Fire
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Evs: 244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
- Torment
- Substitute
- Protect
- Lava Plume

Heatran@Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
Evs: 248 HP / 56 SpA / 204 SpD
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Earth Power / Roar
- Lava Plume


---Hippowdon---

Hippowdon@Leftovers
Trait: Sandstream
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang / Roar / Toxic / Stone Edge

Jirachi

Jirachi@leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
- Wish
- Protect / Fire Punch
- Body Slam / Thunderwave
- Iron Head

Jirachi@leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
Evs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 Spe
- Substitute
- Body Slam / Thunderwave
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch

Machamp

Machamp @ Lum Berry
Trait : No Guard
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge

Metagross

Metagoss @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Trait : Clear Body
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch


---Porygon2---

Porygon2 is an incredibly solid wall that got a huge boost in Gen V named Eviolite. It boosts both of Porygon2's defensive, placing the virtual duck among the bulkiest Pokémon in the game. In addition, Porygon2 was blessed with the godly ability Trace, which copies the opponent's ability and gives it to Porygon2. This is particularly useful against Pokémon like Heatran or Jolteon who have Flash Fire and Volt Absorb respectively - Porygon2 basically gains an immunity to their strongest STAB moves. It also enjoys the presence of abilities like Levitate, Intimidate, and Poison Heal. And it's not a "sitting duck" either - a very good base 105 Special Attack allows it to easily take hits from Salamence or Gyarados and then OHKO or 2HKO back. As fantastic as this all sounds, Porygon2 does have several huge drawbacks that keep it from overthrowing all of OU. Because it has to hold the Eviolite, Porygon2 misses out on Leftovers recovery (though it has Recover regardless). Porygon2 also has terrible speed, meaning that most Pokémon can outspeed and do heavy damage to it before it has a chance to heal the damage or strike back. Its Normal typing really is killer, though - only offering one immunity to Ghost, and the Fighting weakness allows it to be mauled by powerful Fighting moves like Conkeldurr's Drain Punch or Machamp's DynamicPunch. However, despite these weaknesses, Porygon2 finds itself to be a very sturdy wall in a metagame full of powerful threats.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait : Trace
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 72 SpD / 48 Spe
- Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Toxic / Thunder Wave / Magic Coat
- Recover

Porygon2 is an all-purpose defensive pivot, beating out threats like Gyarados, Salamence, Sazandora, and Garchomp. BoltBeam, present in the first two slots, allow it to establish an offensive presence while upholding fairly solid coverage. Discharge can be used over Thunderbolt for its much higher paralysis rate. Recover is for, well, recovery, and should be used at any possible time because with Porygon2's speed, it hardly has many chances to use it to begin with. Toxic is preferred for the third slot because it allows Porygon2 to outstall a lot more Pokémon, although Thunder Wave's paralysis rate can help support your team greatly. Magic Coat on the other hand stops status and Spiking set up attempts which P2 is at risk from.

Porygon2 has two huge fears: status, particularly Toxic, and Fighting-types. As long as Porygon2 didn't Trace Poison Heal from Gliscor or the like, using Toxic on it basically spells doom, because it can't keep up with the poison that long. Guts Conkeldurr and Guts Machamp especially are very good switch-ins to Porygon2. They can take the Thunder Wave or Toxic and then hit back with a much more powerful Drain Punch or Close Combat, respectively. Other powerful threats boosted by Choice Band/Specs or weather can really threaten Porygon2, including Kingdra, Landorus, and Ludicolo. Excadrill in particular has an easy time with Porygon2, being immune to Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Thunderbolt, leaving it only with Ice Beam to try to deal damage while Excadrill simply Swords Dances.


---Rotom-W---

Rotom-W probably had one of the biggest changes for any Pokémon going into the fifth Generation: its Electric/Ghost typing changed into Electric/Water. While Rotom-W (along with the rest of its formes) did lose the title of "best spinblocker" in standard play, its fantastic typing gives it a new niche in the metagame as a premier bulky water. With Levitate, it now only has one weakness, and can counter some of the metagame's most prominent threats, such as Landorus and Gliscor. New moves like Volt Switch let Rotom-W effectively pull off a sort of hit-and-run strategy with Choice Scarf or Choice Specs. However, as good as Water/Electric is defensively, it is stopped cold by Grass and Dragon-types when used as offensive STABs. Without HP Fire, Pokémon like Breloom can just waltz in and prop up a substitute. Latios and Latias don't mind any of its attacks, and it doesn't hurt them much to get burned either. Blissey and Chansey also take any hits from Rotom-W quite easily. But while Rotom-W has its checks and counters, it's still a very stable and powerful Pokémon that can be used well on almost any team.

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Trait : Levitate
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire/Ice] / Shadow Ball
- Trick

Utilizing Choice Specs, Rotom-W hits incredibly hard. Utilizing Choice Scarf, Rotom-W is an incredibly effective revenge-killer. There's really not much downside to using a Choice item on Rotom-W. Hydro Pump is Rotom-W's most powerful STAB move, with Thunderbolt as a close second. Volt Switch is listed as an option for scouting, although it's usually better applied to the Choice Scarf set rather than Specs. Hidden Power is there for a way to actually hit Grass-types; HP Fire hits Ferrothorn hard, who otherwise walls everything you can do, and HP Ice complements Thunderbolt well, as well as hitting Dragonite, Salamence, and Garchomp for a lot of damage. Trick is here to lock Blissey or another special wall into one move, leaving them stuck while Rotom-W wears them down.

If it gets in on anything other than a Trick, Blissey and Chansey easily wall Rotom-W to no end. Latios and Latias also resist any move that Rotom-W has in its arsenal save Shadow Ball, and Latios in particular doesn't really mind coming in on Trick. Ferrothorn also easily takes anything but HP Fire and Trick, and threatens a super-effective Power Whip to force Rotom-W out.

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait : Levitate
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
Evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spd or 128 Hp / 252 SAtk / 128 Speed
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Pain Split

This is the most used set for Rotom-W. Again, Hydro Pump makes for its most powerful STAB, with Thunderbolt (Volt Switch is an option for scouting) right behind that. Between Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump, Rotom-W can hit the vast majority of the metagame for neutral or super-effective damage. Between Hydro Pump and Levitate, Rotom-W makes one of the best Gliscor counters in the game, and it easily beats out most other Water-types as well including Gyarados, Burungeru, and Suicune. Will-O-Wisp and Hidden Power Fire punish Pokémon that commonly come in on Rotom-W; W-O-W is particularly effective for sweepers, and Hidden Power is better as an immediate answer against Ferrothorn and Scizor. Pain Split provides recovery with Rotom-W's naturally low HP stat, albeit a little bit unreliable.

This Rotom is particularly susceptible to Toxic, as most defensive Pokémon are. Like the last set, it also can't break through Chansey or Blissey at all, and they can Toxic it to end it shortly. Lati@s is also a pain, although you can run Thunder Wave to cut their speed and then bring in a solid counter. After its Toxic Orb has been activated, Breloom doesn't really mind coming in and Seed Bombing Rotom-W away. Ferrothorn can also come in here, though it really doesn't like Will-O-Wisp at all. CM Virizion also doesn't care that much about a burn and can eat any kind of attack Rotom-W throws at it with its gargantuan Special Defense.

---Salamence---

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait : Intimidate
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
Evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
- Wish
- Roost / Protect
- Dragon Tail
- Flamethrower



---Skarmory---

Skarmory@Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait : Sturdy
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

Skarmory@Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 252 S.Def / 6 SPD
Trait : Keen Eye
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Taunt / Brave Bird

Swampert

Swampert@Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Roar / Scald


---Tentacruel---

Tentacruel itself didn't gain a whole lot through Gen V. The metagame however does bring a lot of good things to the table for good ol' Tenta, particularly the new boosts that Drain Punch and Giga Drain got. Tentacruel now effectively can wall common threats like Bulk Up Conkeldurr and CM Virizion and force them to take damage from Liquid Ooze. It also got Rain Dish through Dream World, meaning that in a rain team, Tentacruel finally has that coveted non-Rest recovery that it has always has dreamt of. Plus, its previous niches are still intact; it's still a solid special wall with access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, and it even gets Scald to burn other Pokémon and cut the damage to its weaker defense. However, not all is bright and jolly for Tentacruel in Gen V. The prominence of Ground-type threats like Excadrill make that Earthquake weakness Tentacruel has everpresent. Plus, a good chunk of OU is completely oblivious to Toxic Spikes, making it that much harder for Tentacruel to wear them down. Plus, without Rain Dish (and even sometimes with) Tentacruel is still strained for recovery in a fast-paced metagame where 18.5% or 6% per turn just isn't enough.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Trait : Liquid Ooze / Rain Dish
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Surf / Scald
- Hex / Venom Shock

Tentacruel's main draw is the first two moves on this set: Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. Water/Poison is actually a fairly solid defensive typing, letting it come in on things like Conkeldurr's Mach Punch or Burungeru's Surf and start spiking up. The choice between Liquid Ooze and Rain Dish is usually very easy - if you have Drizzle Politoed on your team, run Rain Dish; if you don't, run Liquid Ooze. The third slot is your choice between power and status. While Surf does hit harder, most of Tentacruel's switch-ins are immune to Toxic Spikes and use physically-based attacks, meaning that the chance for burn from Scald is that much more useful. Venom Shock is recommended for the last slot because with Toxic Spikes and STAB, it hits 195 base power, though Hex can be used to hit Jellicent harder.

Ferrothorn is generally a good switch-in to Tentacruel. It ignores Toxic Spikes, resists all of its moves, and it can just start setting up Spikes. If Tentacruel is ballsy enough to stay in and Rapid Spin, it takes damage from Iron Barbs, and it could take heavy damage from Power Whip. Steel-type, Flying-type, or Levitating Pokémon who can successfully abuse Earthquake usually ruin Tentacruel's day, as well. Metagross, Excadrill, Dragonite are three examples, although none of them like to be burned and Excadrill in particular doesn't like being hit by a Water-type move. Reuniclus is also a very good switch-in to Tentacruel, ignoring Toxic Spikes completely and taking very little damage from its attacks while it can just Calm Mind up. Powerful Electric-type moves from Thundurus or Garvantula can threaten Tentacruel as well.

Tyranitar

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Trait: Sandstream
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Evs: 252 HP / 88 SpA / 168 SpD or 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Fire Blast / Pursuit
- SuperPower

Vaporeon

Vaporeon@Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Evs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 64 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf / Scald
- Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam / Toxic / Roar

Vaporeon@Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 Spe
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Acid Armor / Wish / Aqua Ring
- Scald / Roar
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  #4    
Old February 28th, 2011 (08:49 PM).
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Old February 28th, 2011 (08:50 PM).
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reserved also, this thing is gonna be big
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  #6    
Old February 28th, 2011 (08:52 PM).
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K added vrai's write ups.

Gonna change stuff like Boiling Water to "Scald" and Kerudio to "Keldeo" and the like later lol.
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  #7    
Old March 3rd, 2011 (06:57 PM). Edited March 4th, 2011 by Vrai.
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so yea i'll get all of these trolls done over the next couple days, maybe only one or two tonight though cos homework sucks

(515 85 115 80 105 80 50 Electric)

---Eelektross---

Eelektross doesn't have anything particularly notable about it - it's got rather average everything, especially compared to the newly introduced speed demons in Gen V or the power creep found in Pokemon like Chandelure (base 145 Special Attack?!). Eelektross is probably most accurately referred to as the Poliwrath of the fifth generation: it's average all around, but it still has some use in certain niches. The most interesting thing about Eelektross, though, it's that it's one of three Pokemon to have absolutely zero weaknesses through Levitate, the other two being Spiritomb and Sableye with the fabled Ghost/Dark typing.

Eelektross@ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef) / Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Atk / 172 SpA / 84 Spe Or 172 Hp / 252 SAtk / 84 Spd
- Thunderbolt / Wild Bolt
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower
- Brick Break / Hidden Power [Ice]

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
- Acid Bomb
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice]

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Careful Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
- Coil
- Substitute
- Wild Bolt
- Dragon Tail

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
- Coil
- Zap Cannon / Thunder
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power [Ice]

(490 65 125 100 60 70 70 Dark/Steel)

---Bisharp---

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Trait: Competitive Spirit
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
- Stone Edge / Iron Head

Bisharp @ Life Orb / Balloon
Trait: Competitive Spirit
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- Thunderwave / Toxic
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break / Iron Head

(510 105 65 105 55 95 80 Dark/Flying)

---Mandibuzz---

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Trait: Dustproof
EVs: 248 Hp / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic / Knock Off / Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

(490 110 95 40 95 55 Normal)

---Bouffalant---

Bouffalant @ Choice Band
Trait: Herbivore / Reckless
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Afro Break
- Earthquake
- Wild Bolt
- Megahorn / Payback


---Wobbuffet---

Wobbuffet @ Leftovers / Custap Berry
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Encore
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Tickle / Destiny Bond / Safeguard / Charm


---Latios---

Latios @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover / Psyshock

Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Recover / Hidden Power [Fire]


---Garchomp---

Garchomp @ Yache Berry / Haban Berry / Life orb
Trait: Sandveil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Trait: Sandveil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang / Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail


---Quagsire---

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait : Unaware
Evs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 6 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Yawn / Toxic / Ice Beam
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  #8    
Old March 7th, 2011 (10:45 PM).
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A few small corrections-

Spoiler:

1.Power whip+Chlorophyll is illegal on venusaur.
2.You wrote 252 Atk/252 Sp/6 SAtk for the Specsmence set.Should be 252 SAtk/252 Sp/6 Hp imo.


Also,I was wondering if I could help out...I'd love to do Cloyster/Huntail/Gorebyss.
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  #9    
Old March 8th, 2011 (05:09 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Elvis Cheeseley:
A few small corrections-

Spoiler:

1.Power whip+Chlorophyll is illegal on venusaur.
2.You wrote 252 Atk/252 Sp/6 SAtk for the Specsmence set.Should be 252 SAtk/252 Sp/6 Hp imo.


Also,I was wondering if I could help out...I'd love to do Cloyster/Huntail/Gorebyss.
Sure, Vrai has already done Gorebyss however and Huntail isnt used enough to be a threat imo (#234) but by all means feel free to do Cloyster.

Thanks for the corrections also.
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  #10    
Old March 8th, 2011 (11:41 PM). Edited March 9th, 2011 by Elvis Cheeseley.
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-----Cloyster-----


One of the "pearl"s of Generation 5,Cloyster has been promoted from a rather average Oh-I'll-just-set-up-spikes-on-you-and-spin-away-whatever-you-pile-up UU lead to the status of a potential OU sweeper.It is blessed with arguably the most broken set-up move ever,aka Shell Break,and has standard Attack as well as Special attack stats to abuse them.Base 70 speed may be regarded as below average,but after a Shell break,max-speed Cloyster hits 514 speed,something that even the great Deoxys-S cannot achieve.What's more,Cloyster possesses a mammoth 180 base defensive stat,surpassed only by Shuckle,Steelix and Regirock.As a result,VERY FEW UNBOOSTED SUPER-EFFECTIVE PHYSICAL ATTACKS OHKO cloyster,sometimes even after entry hazard damage!! So underestimate it at your own peril,for Cloyster can make clam juice out of your team.

"OMG,how on earth can I possibly kill this demon??"

The answer is pretty simple.Cloyster has one of the worst special defenses in the metagame,a pathetic 45.Add to that a poor HP stat of 50,and you'll get something that is nearly OHKo'd by a powerful STAB water attack,inspite of the x2 resist.That,however should not put off anyone from using Cloyster,though,and one Shell Break might be enough for a luxury 6-0 victory over your opponent.



Cloyster @ Life Orb/White Herb/Focus sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 60 Spd / 252 SAtk / 196 Atk@ Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
OR 220 Atk/ 200 Satk / 88 spd @ Rash Nature (+ Satk, -SpD)

- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump/Razor shell
- Ice shard/Hidden power Fire/Grass/Electric


The dual attacker is arguably Cloyster's most devastating set,the first EV set hitting 550 attack and 538 SAtk after one shell break,outspeeding SCarfTran,while the second EV set gives it equal Atk and SAtk stats of 562 resulting in a minor speed drop.Even then it outspeeds the likesof Jolteon and other Base 130 Speeds,which shows the power of the move Shell Break.Access to dual STABs of water and ice provide stellar coverage.Icicle spear and Hydro pump can virtually OHKO 60% of the metagame with ease.Cloyster's abilty,Skill link,means that Icicle spear has a base power of 125 plus STAB .While Icicle spear demolishes special walls,like Blissey,Hydro pump is often more useful than Razor shell in killing Defensively based Cloyster counters,namely Magnezone.The last spot is mainly preference-Ice shard can kill the likes of Whimsicott or Thundurus,who can abuse their teasing heart ablity to status/taunt Cloyster.Also,with Garchomp and Landorus wrecking havoc in the metagame,Ice shard is a very useful priority move.On the other hand,Cloyster's choice of Hidden power can surprise quite a few teams and eliminate a few common counters.HP fire demolishes the likes of Forretress and Ferrothorn,who can set up on it as well as Scizor,Hp grass Ohkos bulky Water/Grounds like Swampert,Quagsire and Gastrodon,while HP electric hits Gyrados harder.


Countering this set isn't as difficult as it may seem.Anything that resists Water/Ice,with a decent amount of bulk and ANY special attack can kill Cloyster.Empoleon,Rotom-W,Suicune,Jellicent all are effective counters.Suicune can PHaze away with Roar,while Empoleon and Jellicent can hit back with their special attacks,although HP electric will 2hko Empoleon switching in.Ferrothorn will wall any set without HP fire and 2hko with Power whip.Reuniclus is also a solid counter due to its impressive bulk,but remember NOT TO USE PSYCHO SHOCK AS IT WON'T EVEN 3Hko Cloyster.The common mistake made while playing against Cloyster is that people tend to send out Physical attackers for super effective moves,forgetting that they hardly do any damage to Cloyster.For example,an unboosted x2 Rock slide from Adamant Excadrill doesn't even 2hko Cloyster,while a STAB Scald/Surf from a decent water type or a neutral Special Attack like Shadow ball hurts a lot more.




Cloyster @ White herb/Focus sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Rock Blast / Ice Shard


The pure physical attacker packs a significant amount of power,more than the mixed wallbreaker.coming off 634 Attack stat,Icicle spear OHKOs or 2hkos anything not of Water/Steel typing.Razor shell provides a secondary STAB,for killing the likes of Heatran or Blaziken.Ice shard or Rock blast is still preference.

The counters of the previous set,namely the bulky waters,work here as well.Ferrothorn,Bronzong can set up on it,but remember that Icicle spear has a chance of 2hkoing Ferrothorn after entry hazard damage.This set cannot OHKO the likes of CB Scizor and Magnezone like the previous one,allowing them to OHKO Cloyster with Superpower and Thunderbolt respectively. CB/Guts Conkledurr can revenge kill with Mach punch,while the standard Bulk up set can wear it away with Drain punch+Mach punch,although Icicle spear will hurt a lot.




Cloyster @ Choice Band
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Explosion / Ice Shard


This Cloyster set is an unexpected revenge killer,abusing Cloyster's massive Defensive stats to switch in to physical pokemons that are setting up,and hit them hard with its moveset.Keeping Stealth rock up is a very effective way for preventing Cloyster from making repeated switch-ins,as it loses 1/4th of its HP due to its Ice typing.Ice shard makes this set a standard revenge killer as well,hitting pretty hard,coming off 473 Attack stat.


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That's all I could think of lol.The EV set might be a bit messed up I'm afraid.Feel free to change them if they aren't the best sets,but so far they've worked out pretty well for me.Hope I helped
I'd also give a cute picture of it but...


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Old March 29th, 2011 (02:23 PM).
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i finally was thinking about putting together a Gen 5 team but i had NO idea what the standards were anymore, so this article was really helpful, thank you (:

the stats in this game are going through the roof...
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Old April 22nd, 2011 (12:54 PM).
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Thanks now I know the standard sets.

Most of the Salmences have nature typos.
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Old April 22nd, 2011 (03:10 PM).
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Gonna resume this and yeah mence sets have typo's XD
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Old April 22nd, 2011 (04:17 PM).
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How about Musharana?

She's the only new Pokemon to learn Sleep Talk and Magic Coat. Magic Coat now reflects Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Whirlwind, and Roar. I can see her raising hell with that. RestTalk Musharana can be an effective status absorber.
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Old April 22nd, 2011 (04:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by FreakyLocz14:
How about Musharana?

She's the only new Pokemon to learn Sleep Talk and Magic Coat. Magic Coat now reflects Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Whirlwind, and Roar. I can see her raising hell with that. RestTalk Musharana can be an effective status absorber.
1. Its NU and its usage is horribly low, so its not a threat at all.
2. Its totally outclassed by Reuniclus etc offensively and Slowbro etc defensively.
3. Rest Talk is horrible on it because Tyranitar, Scizor and the like are on every team and its also major set up fodder for any powerful sweeper.
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Old April 26th, 2011 (05:38 AM).
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Braviary is a pretty viable threat when used in the right hands. I used one before, and It ended up KO'ing alot of things. Below is the set I used:



Braviary @ Flying Gem
Trait: Sheer Force
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Fly/ Rock Slide
- Whirlwind

This set is used for one thing only: Sweeping. Brave Bird is your main attacking move. The Flying Gem boosts the power of Brave Bird, making it basically an attack that cannot be survived, and allows you to rip through some walls with ease. Even after the great boost is gone, Braviary still goes strong with Brave Bird. Superpower is to get rid of Rock-types in the way, but beware, as this lowers your Attack and Defence by one stage. Fly can be used as your secondary flying move, if you're worried about Brave Bird's recoil. Rock Slide breaks down the ice types and other flying types that lurk about. Whirlwind blows away those un-needed walls and can blow away a few leads, too.

You can also use a Choice Band/Scarf for this set.
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Old April 26th, 2011 (03:34 PM).
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Quote originally posted by darkfighter:
Braviary is a pretty viable threat when used in the right hands. I used one before, and It ended up KO'ing alot of things. Below is the set I used:



Braviary @ Flying Gem
Trait: Sheer Force
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Fly/ Rock Slide
- Whirlwind

This set is used for one thing only: Sweeping. Brave Bird is your main attacking move. The Flying Gem boosts the power of Brave Bird, making it basically an attack that cannot be survived, and allows you to rip through some walls with ease. Even after the great boost is gone, Braviary still goes strong with Brave Bird. Superpower is to get rid of Rock-types in the way, but beware, as this lowers your Attack and Defence by one stage. Fly can be used as your secondary flying move, if you're worried about Brave Bird's recoil. Rock Slide breaks down the ice types and other flying types that lurk about. Whirlwind blows away those un-needed walls and can blow away a few leads, too.

You can also use a Choice Band/Scarf for this set.
Braviary is hardly used (it's below Aron on the usage list -_-) and even if it was there are better Pokemon that would be on the usage list first (see: Staraptor). There are even better sets for Braviary - Fly is an awful move competitively, just giving the opponent free turns to set up. I'd first use Aerial Ace before Fly (60 bp + 60 bp > 0 bp + 70bp). Braviary... just isn't worth putting on the threat list because to be honest it's not a threat.
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Old May 4th, 2011 (06:38 PM).
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Ok im thinking what to do in regards to this.

Smogons UU list was just released, so should i just delete all the non OU stuff on this ? It'd save me alot of work actually haha.
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Old May 4th, 2011 (09:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Dark Azelf:
Ok im thinking what to do in regards to this.

Smogons UU list was just released, so should i just delete all the non OU stuff on this ? It'd save me alot of work actually haha.
Yes, you should. I wouldn't delete everything, though -- just things that aren't anywhere near OU or the border between OU and UU at all. Things like Kyurem and Mew are still potentially threats and different enough in comparison to the rest of the currently OU Pokémon to warrant mention. I guess what I'm trying to say is I advocate the clean-sweep of most of the useless Pokémon here, since the OU metagame has finally began to settle down.

On the other aspect of that, may I begin working on a UU threat list similar to this when the meta settles down and sets begin to get developed for UU as well?
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Old May 9th, 2011 (06:25 AM).
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Ok gave this an update. Removed all the UU mons and added Toxicroak because its now OU. Kept Victini cos V-Create was just released.

Ill work on the other sticky later.
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Old May 11th, 2011 (10:09 PM).
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Usually laughed at for this set but here it is;

Terra Firma (Terrakion) @ Leftovers Trait: Justified
EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sacred Sword
- Taunt
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide
- Reflect


Stats from HP to Speed;
361/320/216/162/216/346


I've almost always seen Terrakions as leads being Rock Polishers or Swords Dancers, but I've had amazing use from this as an anti-lead, especially considering how usual leads are weak to fighting, or, how usual leads whom set up Stealth Rocks, Spikes, status like sleep, etc. are out-sped by Terrakion.
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Old May 12th, 2011 (06:40 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Gengar889:
Usually laughed at for this set but here it is;

Terra Firma (Terrakion) @ Leftovers Trait: Justified
EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sacred Sword
- Taunt
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide
- Reflect


Stats from HP to Speed;
361/320/216/162/216/346


I've almost always seen Terrakions as leads being Rock Polishers or Swords Dancers, but I've had amazing use from this as an anti-lead, especially considering how usual leads are weak to fighting, or, how usual leads whom set up Stealth Rocks, Spikes, status like sleep, etc. are out-sped by Terrakion.
I don't think that's used enough to warrant a position on the threat list, though I guess it makes moderate sense. Terrakion also loses to leads like Taunt Gliscor though. I don't want to discourage it since I've honestly never used it and I don't know if it's effective but it just doesn't seem very effective to me, especially since leads like Tyranitar simply aren't going to lead when it sees Terakion in the lead slot.
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  #23    
Old May 12th, 2011 (06:52 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Vrai:
I don't think that's used enough to warrant a position on the threat list, though I guess it makes moderate sense. Terrakion also loses to leads like Taunt Gliscor though. I don't want to discourage it since I've honestly never used it and I don't know if it's effective but it just doesn't seem very effective to me, especially since leads like Tyranitar simply aren't going to lead when it sees Terakion in the lead slot.
Yes, that makes sense, but I forgot about wifi showing your entire team like the PBR series; I've been playing on Pokemon-Online in the DW tier, it doesn't show teams before a battle and doesn't allow rearranging.
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Old May 12th, 2011 (06:57 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Gengar889:
Yes, that makes sense, but I forgot about wifi showing your entire team like the PBR series; I've been playing on Pokemon-Online in the DW tier, it doesn't show teams before a battle and doesn't allow rearranging.
The standard metagame is WiFi, which this list is comprised for (note the lack of sets for Ditto and Keldeo/Genosekt). Aaaaand in WiFi there is indeed Team Preview. ;o;

Regardless, though, I myself am disinclined for us to have such a set on the threat list because it's never used and thus most should not take it into account as a legitimate "threat". Perhaps if it were used more but tbh I don't see it happening, especially since the RP/SD/Choice sets are so much more effective and make better use of its abilities. I'd honestly say this Taunt/Reflect lead set is more of a gimmick than anything (successful gimmick? maybe, never tried it) but regardless it's not a threat people should have to account for.
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Old May 13th, 2011 (01:51 PM).
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Though it's not a huge priority, at some point we will probably want to combine these threats and the ones from the first four generations, since they share the same metagame and it's not the early speculative stage where the older Pokemon are more or less known quantities and everyone wants to try out the new ones.

This looks to be even bigger than the gen 4 threat list though so at some point a way to organize this should be figured out, but yeah, we should start to finalize the early version of this threat list and make it more presentable and easier to navigate.
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