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  #1    
Old March 1st, 2011 (03:17 AM). Edited March 2nd, 2011 by sanshroo.
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sanshroo sanshroo is offline
 
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Rate it. You know you want to. Advice would also be appreciated.

ICE

Abomasnow[lead]@ choice scarf (needs editing. A higher speed stat is needed for outspeeding hasty infernape)
Jolly.
252 attack. 220 Speed. 38 Sp. Attack.
Blizzard
EQ
Wood hammer [this move can -almost- OHKO a tyranitar. Not quite. Le sigh.]
brick break (was Rock slide)

Used as my lead to start constant hail. Setup is specialized to put major physical damage on leads as fast as modest Gengar (Hasty infernape) and lower. The blizzard is in case there's a lead that is weak to ice. Even though my nature lowers the damage it deals it's still stronger than any other ice move.


Cloyster@ citrus berry (Edited to Chesto berry)
Impish
252 HP 252 Sp. DEF. (Moved EVs around to add defensive variability)

Explosion
Rest (was Spikes)
toxic spikes
Rapid Spin (was protect)

Used to set up especially for my walrien. Explode to make it worth while. Takes major damage from any special attack.


WALRIEN@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP 252 def 4 sp def

Blizzard
Protect
Substitute
Aqua Ring

Used to uber stall with poison and hail up. Nothing can touch this. I replaced roar with Aqua ring so that I can fit in an occasional blizzard. My most valuable pokemon. Ice body+leftovers+Aqua ring= hella HP gain. Altered from the smogon hailstall workup with the addition of Aqua ring to it's movepool.


Froslass@ Bright Powder
Timid.
252 speed, 252 Sp. attack

Psychic (Was Thunder Wave)
Shadow ball
Confuse ray
Blizzard
With Para-fusion up and snow cloak in place the chance of her taking a hit is dropped to 40%. With bright powder it is 30%.


Kingdra@ White herb
Modest.
252 sp. attack 252 speed. 4 def

Surf
Draco meteor
dragon pulseHP Ground (Was Protect)

This is used to absorb fire attacks and blow up with two draco meteors. Surf and dragon pulse in case it can survive longer. Added ground to hit fire and steel types.


Glaceon@ Choice specs.
Modest.
252 Sp. attack 252 speed

Blizzard
Shadow ball
Signal beam
water pulse.

Type coverages and hella strong blizzard. In hail this thing murders. Plus it's also got snow cloak.


Pokemon I am considering adding:
Rotom ice
Mamoswine
Not Wevile. It's dumb.
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  #2    
Old March 1st, 2011 (03:35 AM).
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Even if it's a monotype team, there are better type choices than Ice. I mean, Ice is a terrible defensive typing, offering very little in the way of resistances and a lot in the way of very common weaknesses. It's also weak to Stealth Rock (and you have no spinner) meaning that if the opponent gets it up, you're kind of boned.

As far as Abomasnow, I don't think Modest Gengar is a very good shooting point... afaik, not many people run Modest and even if you think they do you run the risk of them outspeeding you and OHKOing with Focus Blast. I'd rather invest in a set more like

Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
140 Atk / 116 SpA / 252 Spe - Hasty Nature
~ Blizzard
~ Wood Hammer
~ Earthquake
~ Hidden Power [Fire]

if you want to actually run a Choice Scarf. I'd offer more help but I'm actually having to get ready for school soon. I can come back and help out more when I get back probably maybe.
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we must plan where we want to go and how we'll get there
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  #3    
Old March 1st, 2011 (04:02 AM). Edited March 1st, 2011 by sanshroo.
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Quote originally posted by soϲks:
Even if it's a monotype team, there are better type choices than Ice. I mean, Ice is a terrible defensive typing, offering very little in the way of resistances and a lot in the way of very common weaknesses. It's also weak to Stealth Rock (and you have no spinner) meaning that if the opponent gets it up, you're kind of boned.
I chose ice because of the 100% accuracy of blizzard in hail. With stab applied these things hurt. I know ice types look like they don't work on paper, but in practice they really do. I have a ghost type and a physical wall to cover fighting attacks, a kingdra to cover fire attacks, and I can add a ground (mamoswine) to absorb electric.

Focus blast isn't common on gengars.

Don't C/P stuff from smogon. I don't want a mixed attacker or to give up 10% of my defense or special defense.

Unless you can convince me otherwise that is..
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  #4    
Old March 1st, 2011 (06:06 AM).
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very good for a monoteam
try getting some fire or fighting and steel protections though. Earthquake is a nice idea on walrein, I think it can learn it!
The moves are quite good. and yeah, pretty decent. Needs more defense on fire steel and fightning! Try aireal ace or psychic on a pokemon and you got your self a nice ice team!!! hey it rhymes! this time! ^-^
  #5    
Old March 1st, 2011 (04:52 PM).
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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Quote originally posted by sanshroo:
Focus blast isn't common on gengars.

Uh yes it is, its the most common move Gengar has aside from Shadow Ball. :/

Don't C/P stuff from smogon.
"why not?" there isnt any problem with C+P from smogon as long as the suggestion is beneficial and explained lol
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  #6    
Old March 1st, 2011 (05:37 PM).
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Quote originally posted by sanshroo:
I chose ice because of the 100% accuracy of blizzard in hail. With stab applied these things hurt. I know ice types look like they don't work on paper, but in practice they really do. I have a ghost type and a physical wall to cover fighting attacks, a kingdra to cover fire attacks, and I can add a ground (mamoswine) to absorb electric.

Focus blast isn't common on gengars.

Don't C/P stuff from smogon. I don't want a mixed attacker or to give up 10% of my defense or special defense.

Unless you can convince me otherwise that is..
a) Focus Blast is always used on every set with Gengar. It gives it perfect coverage with Shadow Ball - there's no reason not to use it.
b) Electric is neutral on Ice-types, so idk why you're worried about that.
c) You're running a mixed attacker right now technically, with a significantly less powerful Blizzard because you're running a negative nature on it. Abomasnow (especially Scarf Abomasnow) isn't meant to be taking hits, so losing 10% on its Defense doesn't mean nearly as much as gaining 10% (from negative to neutral) on its Special Attack.

People at Smogon know what the hell they're doing - that's all they dedicate themselves to. There's no reason to not at least listen to what they have to say.
__________________
life is a journey on which we all must travel light.
we must remember to pack essentials, like values,
dreams, and faith.
we must bring no more than we need of self-confidence or pride.
there is not enough space for hurts, grudges, greed, or worries
for they will give us a heavy load.
we must plan where we want to go and how we'll get there
lest we lose our way.
we can walk slowly and carefully. sail through rough and smooth seas.
coast along the different highways or soar as far as our eyes can see.
for every journey, though, remember to bring enough soϲks
to keep your feet clean, while keeping them firmly on the ground.

  #7    
Old March 1st, 2011 (11:02 PM). Edited March 2nd, 2011 by sanshroo.
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I made some changes. Please review them. They are underlined in the original post.

More changes? I need more physical coverage and a revenge killer, so perhaps a Mamoswine? I could do with replacing glaceon, and it'd let me cover electric which seriously hurts my two water types.

EDIT
"c) You're running a mixed attacker right now technically, with a significantly less powerful Blizzard because you're running a negative nature on it. Abomasnow (especially Scarf Abomasnow) isn't meant to be taking hits, so losing 10% on its Defense doesn't mean nearly as much as gaining 10% (from negative to neutral) on its Special Attack."

Blizzard is just for coverage. The only time I use it is if it's going to be supper effective. There isn't a single pokemon that can withstand it at that point. Blizzard is just too strong of a move. 180 base damage with stab means lots of OW. 360 base with a super effective hit means any extra special attack is just overkill. No need, broski.
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  #8    
Old March 2nd, 2011 (01:44 AM).
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I don't see any benefits Cloyster may have on hail teams other than immunity to it. I'd have Tentacruel in its place:
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Surf
-Blizzard/Sludge Bomb
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze

I suggested Tentacruel because of its ability to help deal with Fire Pokemon.

No, I don't think Froslass needs Psychic because other than hitting Fighting and Poison Pokemon, it's not doing much. I think HP Fighting/Electric is what you need as one (Fighting) pairs well with Shadow Ball and the other (Electric) pairs well with Ice Beam.

Yes, I think you should replace Glaceon with Mamoswine; Glaceon's movepool is terrible:
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang/Ice Shard
-Stone Edge
-Superpower/Ice Shard
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band/Choice Scarf/Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
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  #9    
Old March 2nd, 2011 (01:51 AM).
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Cloyster is my best ice utility. I'm aware of the benefits of a tentecruel on this kind of team, but that would mean getting rid of Kingdra, who can handle fire types at least equally as well, if not better. *Edit* I want to keep a 5/6 ice ratio.

I don't understand your hidden power explanation on the froslass /:
Perhaps you could paraphrase?

Mamoswine is going to be the next addition, yeah.. I was looking at regice or others, but they don't really compare..
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  #10    
Old March 2nd, 2011 (02:46 AM).
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Quote originally posted by sanshroo:
I don't understand your hidden power explanation on the froslass /:
Perhaps you could paraphrase?
Hidden Power (Fighting) provides unresisted coverage with Shadow Ball, while Hidden Power (Electric) gives you a pseudo BoltBeam combo.
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  #11    
Old March 2nd, 2011 (03:05 AM).
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Well psychic Covers my fighting weakness and my froslass is best suited to do this since it's the fastest on my team.

Electric only lets me hit water types, as flying is already covered.

The only other choice would be fighting which I am tempted to use. It covers my general steel weakness and froslass' dark weakness.

Do fighting types often carry a dark move to handle ghost types?
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I catch my legendaries in nest balls :unsure:
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  #12    
Old March 2nd, 2011 (04:03 AM).
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why rest on Cloyster?
Cloyster's special defense isn't that good so it isn't really durable enough to use rest.

Why not roar on walrein?
You could have set up spikes or toxic spikes and kept roaring!

Common dark moves for fighting pokemon are sucker punch and fling.
 
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