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Pokémon Strategies and Movesets Post your team lineups, get your team rated or rate other teams, talk about lineups, talk about moves/movesets, strategies, etc. For general talk about the games, go to the respective Pokémon game forums.


 
 
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  #1    
Old March 30th, 2011, 02:37 PM
Maser
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Gender: Male
So, I made this team to be as competitive as I could with the resources I have in-game (White+Pearl+Emerald combined). This means no Dream World abilities and only one play-through worth of TMs from Pearl.
Also, I only have access to one leftovers, which hurt a bit.


The Lead
------------

Shion @ Focus Sash
Regenerate
Jolly - 4hp / 252atk / 252spe
Fake Out
Hi Jump Kick
U-Turn
Taunt

My Anti-SR lead. Works quite well in theory with Fake Out to break sashes and a really fast Taunt to block status and traps. However, if their suicide lead just switches on the first turn I have no means of stopping that SR later.



The Defensive Core
-------------------------

Nattorei @ Rocky Helmet
Sassy - 252hp / 4def / 252spD
Leech Seed
Power Whip
Gyro Ball
Spikes

Standard Ferrothorn. With a lot of resistances and good defences this little thorn covered thingy can sponge both psychic attacks aimed at Mienshao or Infernape and bug attacks aimed at Zoroark.


U Jelly? @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Calm - 252hp / 160def / 96spD
Will-O-Wisp
Recover
Taunt
Surf

Also quite standard. Jellicent supports Ferrothorn really well since they cover each others weaknesses perfectly. Also loves the water attacks aimed Gligar or Infernape due to Water Absorb.
Jellicent is also useful as spin blocker, although this team doesn't have much entry hazards (Ferrothorn's spikes only).


Buzz @ Eviolite
Sand Veil
Impish - 252hp / 136def / 120spD
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Taunt
Roost

With awesome defences and resistance coverage in ground and fighting, Gligar completes this defensive core. With Aerial Ace, Gligar is also quite potent in handling the bulky fighters which FerroCent have problems with.



The Offensive Core
------------------------

Paranoia @ Life Orb
Naive - 4atk / 252spA / 252spe
Night Daze
Focus Blast
Flamethrower
Sucker Punch

I love Zororark's ability, Illusion. It opens up for a whole new mind-game-style of play. The strategy is to switch Zoroark in on pokes like Blissey/Chansey or Ferrothorn which is really afraid of what Infernape can do (Infernape will be his Illusion the first time) and then predict and hopefully OHKOing the incoming Infernape-counter on the switch, which will help a lot later when the real Infernape comes in to sweep a team full of holes.
Night Daze is chosen over Dark Pulse mainly for the accuracy drop chance. Since Zoroark is really frail this could save his life in a pinch.



D'Ruff @ Life Orb
Naive - 252atk / 4spA / 252spe
Close Combat
Overheat
U-Turn
Mach Punch

Standard mixed sweeper. STAB Close Combat is the main attack and is backed up by the priority in Mach Punch. Overheat is for Scizor and high-defence-but-low-spD-pokes such as Gligar. The main counter for this set is Jellicent, but a switch to Ferrothorn or some luck in my Zoroark-trick should help.



Main Problems
------------------

The team lacks both Stealth Rock and Rapid spin. Rapid spin is not my biggest concern though as I don't have any weakness to Stealth Rock.

I was thinking of changing my lead to Aerodactyl as it would still have Taunt, while still getting SR up almost every game.

Another possible lead would be my old Swampert from Pearl with SR/EQ/icebeam/protect. The lack of weaknesses (grass is covered by Ferrothorn) feels good, but no fast Taunt hurt my goal of preventing early entry hazards.

Zoroark could use some finishing touch too. Maybe Nasty Plot could fit better instead of Sucker Punch? Choice Specs or Focus Sash could be used instead of Life orb. Some general thoughts and tips would be really helpful here.



Thank you in advance for any tips that comes to mind.
  #2    
Old March 31st, 2011, 01:46 AM
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PlatinumDude
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For Jellicent, use Scald in place of Surf as it causes damage and (occasionally) burns the opponent. Toxic can also be used over Will-o-Wisp since Scald does the burning for you. Going Bold with 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef is also worth considering because Jellicent is already specially bulky enough.
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  #3    
Old March 31st, 2011, 08:01 AM
Maser
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Gender: Male
Would Wisp and Scald work together? I don't really like the unreliability of Scald burn.
Also, is Cursed Body worth considering over Water Absorb?

I'm leaning towards sashed Aerodactyl lead with taunt/sr/eq/stone edge, but that gives me 3x water weakness which should be considered when choosing between Cursed Body and Water Absorb.
  #4    
Old April 1st, 2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maser View Post
Would Wisp and Scald work together? I don't really like the unreliability of Scald burn.
Also, is Cursed Body worth considering over Water Absorb?

I'm leaning towards sashed Aerodactyl lead with taunt/sr/eq/stone edge, but that gives me 3x water weakness which should be considered when choosing between Cursed Body and Water Absorb.
They're redundant. Scald and Toxic can be used together, however. While Toxic won't work against Steels, you can spam Scald until you get the burn (unless that Pokemon is Ferrothorn).

I wouldn't recommend Cursed Body; it's too risky and gimmicky. Water Absorb lets Jellicent regain health when switching into a Water move without having to rely on Recover.
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  #5    
Old April 2nd, 2011, 10:02 AM
Vrai
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Hi Maser! My comments will be in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maser View Post
So, I made this team to be as competitive as I could with the resources I have in-game (White+Pearl+Emerald combined). This means no Dream World abilities and only one play-through worth of TMs from Pearl.
Also, I only have access to one leftovers, which hurt a bit.

kept in mind, hopefully. :)

The Lead
------------

Shion @ Life Orb
Regenerate
Jolly - 4hp / 252atk / 252spe
Fake Out
Hi Jump Kick
U-Turn
Stone Edge

My Anti-SR lead. Works quite well in theory with Fake Out to break sashes and a really fast Taunt to block status and traps. However, if their suicide lead just switches on the first turn I have no means of stopping that SR later.

My first concern here is, why are you running Taunt? Mienshao doesn't need it - it'd be fooling around anyway. Ferrothorn dies to HJK (and if you Taunt it you die to Gyro Ball anyway). Other things that would need Taunting would be Blissey (which also dies to a well-timed HJK and would never stay in on Mienshao anyway) and Skarmory (who beats Mienshao effortlessly with Drill Peck or Brave Bird.

IMO, this has little to no merit over the standard Regenerator set. There isn't much it should be staying in on to Taunt - and if it can kill something, it should just kill something. Nothing prevents hazard set-ups like hazard set-uppers being KO'd.

Also, Regenerator lets Mienshao ignore LO recoil pretty much, so that is preferred to Focus Sash. Not much is hitting Mienshao before it hits them, too, meaning that for the most part Focus Sash is useless.


The Defensive Core
-------------------------

Nattorei @ Rocky Helmet
Sassy - 252hp / 4def / 252spD
Leech Seed
Power Whip
Gyro Ball
Spikes

Standard Ferrothorn. With a lot of resistances and good defences this little thorn covered thingy can sponge both psychic attacks aimed at Mienshao or Infernape and bug attacks aimed at Zoroark.

Ferrothorn always always always always prefers the recovery from Leftovers if you can afford it. If not, I guess that Rocky Helmet is okay... you can probably pick up a spare Leftovers that someone's willing to trade for in our trading forums, though. Standard isn't max/max, though... try running 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpDef.


U Jelly? @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Calm - 252hp / 160def / 96spD
Will-O-Wisp
Recover
Taunt
Surf

Also quite standard. Jellicent supports Ferrothorn really well since they cover each others weaknesses perfectly. Also loves the water attacks aimed Gligar or Infernape due to Water Absorb.
Jellicent is also useful as spin blocker, although this team doesn't have much entry hazards (Ferrothorn's spikes only).

If you're running Taunt, you need to invest in some speed to make use of it. 44 Spe lets Jellicent outpace minimum speed Scizor and burn it before it does anything to you - and 84 Spe lets you outspeed minimum Skarmory and Taunt it before it can set up Spikes or anything at all. I would run 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe @ Bold - if you invest less in his physical defenses, Jellicent will die to basically every physical attack. :/


Buzz @ Eviolite
Sand Veil
Impish - 252hp / 136def / 120spD
Aerial Ace
Earthquake
Taunt
Roost

With awesome defences and resistance coverage in ground and fighting, Gligar completes this defensive core. With Aerial Ace, Gligar is also quite potent in handling the bulky fighters which FerroCent have problems with.

I don't see what merit Gligar has really over Gliscor. Want to explain why you use it in preference to Scor? Gligar is weaker, slower, and it doesn't have every-turn recovery in the way the Gliscor does. Something will just set up on it while you feebly try to Taunt (and likely get outspeed), and then mash the opponent with weak attacks/spamming roost while they just hit you harder with their own moves. I just don't see Gligar walling anything better than Gliscor could.


The Offensive Core
------------------------

Paranoia @ Life Orb
Naive - 4atk / 252spA / 252spe
Night Daze
Focus Blast
Flamethrower
Sucker Punch

I love Zororark's ability, Illusion. It opens up for a whole new mind-game-style of play. The strategy is to switch Zoroark in on pokes like Blissey/Chansey or Ferrothorn which is really afraid of what Infernape can do (Infernape will be his Illusion the first time) and then predict and hopefully OHKOing the incoming Infernape-counter on the switch, which will help a lot later when the real Infernape comes in to sweep a team full of holes.
Night Daze is chosen over Dark Pulse mainly for the accuracy drop chance. Since Zoroark is really frail this could save his life in a pinch.

I greatly prefer Nasty Plot > Sucker Punch, but I suppose it works. And in reference to your "accuracy drop saves Zoroark's life", the miss chance of Night Daze could end up killing it, too... Otherwise looks pretty standard, I guess.


D'Ruff @ Life Orb
Naive - 252atk / 4spA / 252spe
Close Combat
Overheat
U-Turn
Mach Punch

Standard mixed sweeper. STAB Close Combat is the main attack and is backed up by the priority in Mach Punch. Overheat is for Scizor and high-defence-but-low-spD-pokes such as Gligar. The main counter for this set is Jellicent, but a switch to Ferrothorn or some luck in my Zoroark-trick should help.

Yeah, definitely. You chose a good partner for Zoroark in Infernape, imo. Not much else to say here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
They're redundant. Scald and Toxic can be used together, however. While Toxic won't work against Steels, you can spam Scald until you get the burn (unless that Pokemon is Ferrothorn).

I wouldn't recommend Cursed Body; it's too risky and gimmicky. Water Absorb lets Jellicent regain health when switching into a Water move without having to rely on Recover.
They aren't really that redundant. Yes, they both give off burn, but each has their own niche use; you can't rely on Scald to burn something all the time. IMO, Scald + Toxic makes for a worse Jellicent because Jellicent definitely prefers to cut attack rather than have to outstall something that can likely boost up in its face. Besides, a 75% chance to burn is almost always preferable to a 30% chance in dire situations, where if you don't burn them Jellicent is going to die. Everything that switches in to Jellicent likes a burn less than Toxic - and if it's something like Thundurus, then you can worry less about it going mixed and mashing your Blissey or whatever with Hammer Arm. Yes, Scald+Toxic gives it the capability to fire off two statuses, but in all honesty Jellicent benefits 100% more from the burn. As in the words of the great Opposite Day,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppo
(12:20:38) DJ Landlos: yeah you don't want to toxic that cbtar
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  #6    
Old April 2nd, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Nilz
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Pretty good team with good hit and run offense and some very sturdy walls. Might want to test out a sweeper with set-up options or a strong scarf option.
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  #7    
Old April 3rd, 2011, 02:19 PM
Maser
Beginning Trainer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Gender: Male
Thanks a lot for the help!

About Gligar/Gliscor: I don't have access to DW abilities, meaning that I cant get toxic heal Gliscor. And with the same amounts of hp/def/spD EVs, Gligar with Eviolite has around 25% more effective HP, which means that Gligar is a better switch-in to absorb strong attacks.
The main thing Gliscor has over Gligar is it's higher speed. My main concern for now is how to deal with SubBreloom. With some speed EV's both Gligar and Gliscor can outspeed the standard 244 adamant for the taunt-befure-spore/sub, and Gliscor obviously needs less EVs to do that than Gligar. Though, I don't think I'd put those EV's in speed anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

One possible solution is to replace Mienshao for Swampert, and replace Gligar for something flying/levitating that can handle Breloom better. Relying on Zoro/ape just feels risky.

Last edited by Maser; April 3rd, 2011 at 02:31 PM.
  #8    
Old April 3rd, 2011, 04:36 PM
Vrai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maser View Post
Thanks a lot for the help!

About Gligar/Gliscor: I don't have access to DW abilities, meaning that I cant get toxic heal Gliscor. And with the same amounts of hp/def/spD EVs, Gligar with Eviolite has around 25% more effective HP, which means that Gligar is a better switch-in to absorb strong attacks.
The main thing Gliscor has over Gligar is it's higher speed. My main concern for now is how to deal with SubBreloom. With some speed EV's both Gligar and Gliscor can outspeed the standard 244 adamant for the taunt-befure-spore/sub, and Gliscor obviously needs less EVs to do that than Gligar. Though, I don't think I'd put those EV's in speed anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

One possible solution is to replace Mienshao for Swampert, and replace Gligar for something flying/levitating that can handle Breloom better. Relying on Zoro/ape just feels risky.
Ah, right. I definitely forgot that you're doing WiFi there. DW abilities have been released in Japan; is it possible to get a Poison Heal Gliscor that way?

Eviolite doesn't boost HP, iirc, so that's kinda moot/not right. Like I said, too, Gliscor can actually hit stuff hard and has the room to run Swords Dance, meaning that nothing is going to be able to come in and set up on it like they can on Gligar.

I'm slightly concerned as to how you think that replacing Mienshao >> Swampert is going to help you solve a Breloom weakness. If anything, that's compounding it. ;-;
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  #9    
Old April 4th, 2011, 12:33 AM
Maser
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Gender: Male
I guess I could get Poison Heal Gliscor over GTS, but it's very random (I can't see which abilities they have before I already have made the trade) and I cant breed them for eggmoves, nature or IVs like I want to do. Plus, almost every Japan guy that has Gliscor up on GTS wants ridiculous stuff like lvl9 or under Reshiram

No Eviolite doesn't boost HP, but it does boost both defences with 50%, which means the same thing as a 50% hpboost in every case except moves like Seismic Toss, and Gligar isn't really my main Blissey counter anyway.
About movesets: Gligar and Gliscor have access to the same moves, though, 20 base atk difference is quite a lot. Plus, I don't think a Gliscor without Toxic Heal can run a moveset without Roost.

Well, Mienshao isn't going to do much against Breloom anyways. Well, I could U-turn into something else, breaking sub. I see your point in that Swampert would be a worse choice though.
  #10    
Old April 4th, 2011, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maser View Post
No Eviolite doesn't boost HP, but it does boost both defences with 50%, which means the same thing as a 50% hpboost in every case except moves like Seismic Toss, and Gligar isn't really my main Blissey counter anyway.
Actually, no. Eviolite increases both defenses by 50% if the Pokemon is in the basic stage and can evolve. Both defenses are increased by 30% if the Pokemon is in the middle stage. And it isn't, and never will be, an HP boost, more like a defense boost.

And yeah, I agree. Mienshao is a great Pokemon, I don't think changing it to Swampert would help against your Breloom. :x
  #11    
Old April 4th, 2011, 04:15 PM
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Cycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeffy View Post
Actually, no. Eviolite increases both defenses by 50% if the Pokemon is in the basic stage and can evolve. Both defenses are increased by 30% if the Pokemon is in the middle stage. And it isn't, and never will be, an HP boost, more like a defense boost.

And yeah, I agree. Mienshao is a great Pokemon, I don't think changing it to Swampert would help against your Breloom. :x
wrong. All nfe pokemon get 50%, middle stage pokemon have also been found to get 50%.
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  #12    
Old April 4th, 2011, 04:26 PM
Vrai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maser View Post
I guess I could get Poison Heal Gliscor over GTS, but it's very random (I can't see which abilities they have before I already have made the trade) and I cant breed them for eggmoves, nature or IVs like I want to do. Plus, almost every Japan guy that has Gliscor up on GTS wants ridiculous stuff like lvl9 or under Reshiram :P

No Eviolite doesn't boost HP, but it does boost both defences with 50%, which means the same thing as a 50% hpboost in every case except moves like Seismic Toss, and Gligar isn't really my main Blissey counter anyway.
About movesets: Gligar and Gliscor have access to the same moves, though, 20 base atk difference is quite a lot. Plus, I don't think a Gliscor without Toxic Heal can run a moveset without Roost.

Well, Mienshao isn't going to do much against Breloom anyways. Well, I could U-turn into something else, breaking sub. I see your point in that Swampert would be a worse choice though.
I meant here, at the forums. You can ask to see if anyone has what you need and likely get a legitimate Pokemon with the right egg moves, nature, etc. Other people have addressed 50% defenses boost =/= 50% hp boost, so I won't mention that. Movesets: I meant that Poison Heal Gliscor has more room to run things like Swords Dance in it's four-move set because it doesn't have to run Roost.
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  #13    
Old April 5th, 2011, 01:17 AM
Maser
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Gender: Male
Damage calculations according to http://www.serebii.net/games/damage.shtml
Damage = ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100

Okay, 50% extra defence isn't exactly 50% extra effective HP, but it's close. If an attack would deal 62 hp to me without the boost (assuming no stab or weakness/resistance, and maximum random number), it would deal 42 damage with the boost. That's pretty close to 50% less if you ask me.

To be more precise: ((Damage w/o Eviolite - 2 * (stab * weaknes/resistance * randomnumber)) / 1.5 ) + 2 * (stab * weaknes/resistance * randomnumber) = Damage w/ Eviolite

As I already stated - this doesn't apply to any moves that does a fixed amount of damage such as Seismic Toss or Night Shade. If I'm wrong, please explain what I missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeffy View Post
Actually, no. Eviolite increases both defenses by 50% if the Pokemon is in the basic stage and can evolve. Both defenses are increased by 30% if the Pokemon is in the middle stage.
Why would this matter anyway? Nothing evolves into Gligar, making Gligar the basic stage.
 
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