[Gen V] B/W Comp. Team V2.

[ShinySalamence888]

Hey again, some of you might remember I did a thread earlier this month with my first comptitive team, well I've just about finished it off and tested it, it's able to hold its own quite easily in random matchup but so far all my 6v6 matches have been a bit shady, and I think it's to do with how I open up. But anyway heres the team and any CC is greatly aprriciated!


Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature
Sand Veil
Ice Fang - Earthquake - U-turn - Roost
6 Defense | 252 HP | 252 Speed

Best lead I've got at the moment, most people expect him to be carrying Stealth Rock but I try surprise them by going straight out attacking, sounds pretty reckless now I think about it. But he can always U-Turn out if theres a threat.


Starmie @ Choice Specs
Timid Nature
Natural Cure
Thunderbolt - Ice Beam - Surf - Psychic
6 Special Defense | 252 Special Attack | 252 Speed

My hit and runner basically, timid nature has helped it outrun a few threats, I try switch her into things that won't do much damage then just hit them with what hurts the most.



Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Relaxed Nature
Iron Barbs
PowerWhip - Gyro Ball - Protect - Leech Seed
48 Defense | 252 HP | 210 Special Defense

My mixed wall, seeing as his defenses are pretty much even, but as of now most people have a counter for this beast, so he's kind of been pretty unhelpful recently.


Gallade @ Quick Claw
Adamant Nature
Steadfast
Swords Dance - Psycho Cut - Close Combat - Ice Punch
4 HP | 252 Attack | 254 Speed

Really need to find a better item for this guy, I just wish he was a bit faster because once I've got a SD this thing can cause havoc, but I'm having trouble keeping him alive long enough to cause some real damage. EDIT: Swapped Quick Claw for Expert Belt.



Salamence @ Dragon Gem
Adamant Nature
Intimidate
Dragon Dance - Dragon Claw - Stone Edge - Earthquake
252 Atk / 4 Hp / 252 Spd

Same problem as Gallade really, just hasn't been able to stay in long enough to rip sh** up so far, I think it's just been bad luck so far but if anyone knows any better movesets or spreads that'd be great. EDIT: Replaced 'Mence for the Hydriegon gone a few posts down.


Jolteon @ Zap Plate
Timid Nature
Volt Absorb
HP (Ice) - Shadow ball - Volt Switch - Thunderbolt
252 Sp.Atk | 252 Spe | 4 Hp

And finally, the cleaner I like to call him. He may look fragile but this thing has helped me alot online with his speed, volt switch is a god send of a move aswell, I just can't really think of anything to replace quick attack though.

So thats the team as of now, if anyone could just give the smallest of pointers I'd be grateful, thanks.

[PlatinumDude]

You can consider Toxic Orb + Poison Heal on Gliscor. But if you do, you'll have to replace Roost with something else, like Facade or Protect, since Roost is illegal with Poison Heal.

Water, Ice and Electric have good coverage on Starmie already, so replacing Psychic with Trick to cripple walls isn't a bad idea.

Quick Claw is way too haxxy on Gallade. If you want to keep Gallade alive longer, you can go this way:
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Ice Punch/Stone Edge
-Shadow Sneak
Nature: Careful
EVs: 240 HP/40 Atk/216 SDef/12 Spe
Item: Leftovers

If you'd like to keep your current set, use Life Orb as the item instead and replace Psycho Cut with Shadow Sneak so you have some form of priority.

I don't think your Salamence set is that good:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake/Brick Break
-Fire Blast
Nature: Naughty/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/24 SAtk/232 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate

Give Jolteon Choice Specs so that it has more power behind its other moves.

[ShinySalamence888]

Cheers Platinum, I've been thinking about swapping Salamence for a scarfed Hydreigon though, mainly because Salamence just keeps getting walled before he can set up and his x4 ice weakness is really annoying.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Modest
Levitate
Dragon Pulse - Dark Pulse - Flamethrower - Focus Blast
6Hp | 252 Sp.Atk | 252 Spe

And yeah I'd like to keep Gallade's set as I can't be farced raising a new one and ev reducing berries are nowhere in B/W so far. Thanks anyway.

[PlatinumDude]

Your Hydreigon's Choice Scarf set is okay, except that it's better with Timid because while 98 Speed isn't slow, it isn't fast either. Also, this may be better:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Focus Blast
-U-turn/Dark Pulse
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

[ShinySalamence888]

Replaced Salamence for the modest Hydreigon, the teams not doing as bad as it has been doing but if anyone can give anymore pointers all the better.

[Spinosaurus]

I noticed you lack entry hazards and a rapid spinner. It seems to me like your team hates entry hazards, so you might want to include Forretress to the team and say bye to Ferrothorn.
Forretress @ Shed Shell (You can use Leftovers if item clause is not on but I doubt it.)
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Earthquake (or Gyro Ball but Earthquake to hit Magnezone on a switch.)

You might try using Specs Chandelure/Gengar to block spinners and fighting types. I'd go with Specs Flash Fire Chandelure since you don't need Ground type immunity when you have two who are immune to it. But you could go with Gengar for the speed.

[Conjurer]

I suggest swapping out Gallade for a Lucario, either SD or NP would do fine, really, but I would recommend the SD set since you'd be more familiar with it:

Copypasta from Smogon:

name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Close Combat / High Jump Kick
move 3: ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch
move 4: Crunch
item: Life Orb
ability: Justice Heart / Inner Focus
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

The raw power provided by Close Combat after 1 SD is able to break through pretty much everything not named Skarmory or Ferrothorn. ExtremeSpeed/Bullet Punch are both solid priorities which will hit sweepers that threatens to outspeed Lucario ridiculously hard. This has been standard since early Gen4 and for good reason. I recommend you give it a try and see for yourself

[ShinySalamence888]

@Spinosaurus Yeah i think entry hazards would really help my team, especially for the likes of Jolteon who I use to try pick weak pokemon off on the switch. And most people have a counter for Ferrothorn nowadays. I don't know who I'd replace for a ghost type though, Starmie can usually KO most with a specs Psychic. But I'll definatly consider it thanks!

@Conjurer I was thinking of swapping Gallade for something with priority! The only thing Gallade can learn with priority is Shadow Sneak and he's not got enough bulk to set up. I used a special attacking Lucario ingame and he's one of my faves so I'll try adding one thanks, but it looks like Conkeldurr is one of the best fighting pokemon around atm.

[Karpman]

Alternatively, you could give Starmie Rapid Spin over Psychic, to get rid of hazards.

Gallade is really bugging me, as it's a pretty lackluster Pokemon, but I'm not exactly sure what to replace it with. Jolteon isn't a great Pokemon either, but it's the only thing keeping Gengar from sweeping your team. Jolteon does want a Life Orb or Choice Specs, though.

You could replace Salamence with Latias who can set up easily, survive ice attacks and works as an excellent support Pokemon, I really reccomend you try her out.


Latias @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
Dragon Pulse-Thunderbolt-Calm Mind-Recover
Timid

OR

Latias @ Lum/Lefties
112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
Dragon Pulse-Wish-Protect-Calm Mind/Toxic
Timid

Both are very effective sets.

[Vrai]

If you have the availability, I'd really recommend trying out Poison Heal Gliscor. Turn-by-turn recovery is really useful and frees up a few moveslots, meaning you don't have to run stuff like Roost. It even gets the room to run SD, making your "attack first" option even better. Gliscor also likes to run a bit more defense this gen to shut down everything Fighting-typed.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
Ability: Poison Heal (obviously ;o;)
EVs: 252 HP/184 Def/72 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang/Facade
- Taunt/Protect

Ice Fang gives good coverage with EQ and hits Balloon Exca for neutral damage, and then Facade has more base power (though that's sometimes neutralized by the fact that Ice Fang doubles in powah) and 100% accuracy. Taunt lets you stop setups for stuff like Ferrothorn and Protect lets you stall for some extra recovery. Good luck with your team! 8)

[ShinySalamence888]

Cheers for all the rates and advice everyone, really appreciate it! As of now I'm planning on replacing Ferrothorn for Fortress, perhaps make it my lead and switch Gliscor for the poison heal Gliscor Vrai mentioned ^ But I'd like to keep U-Turn 'cos I know most things carry HP ice or just an ice attack on them and I can scout with him.

I'm definatly replacing Gallade, I only picked him out in the first place because I thought he had decent speed but that doesnt seem to be the case. I don't know whether Bulk up Conkeldurr or SD Lucario would fit best though. Thanks again guys you've helped alot!

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by ShinySalamence888

Cheers for all the rates and advice everyone, really appreciate it! :) As of now I'm planning on replacing Ferrothorn for Fortress, perhaps make it my lead and switch Gliscor for the poison heal Gliscor Vrai mentioned ^ But I'd like to keep U-Turn 'cos I know most things carry HP ice or just an ice attack on them and I can scout with him.

I'm definatly replacing Gallade, I only picked him out in the first place because I thought he had decent speed but that doesnt seem to be the case. -_- I don't know whether Bulk up Conkeldurr or SD Lucario would fit best though. Thanks again guys you've helped alot! :)

Ehhh well most things that carry HP Ice (like randomly Mienshao, Landorus, etc) outspeed Gliscor anyway. It'd be better to use Protect to scout for HP Ice, imo. :3

[ShinySalamence888]

Once again, your right Vrai haha.

Changes as of now to current team are;
~ Replaced 'Mence for modest choice specced Hydreigon.
~ Replaced current Gliscor set for Poison-Heal set Vrai reccomended.
~ Trying to get hold of a Fortress to replace Ferrothorn.
~ Replaced Zap Plate for Life Orb on Jolteon.
~ Trying to choose between Bulk Up Conkeldurr or SD Lucario to replace Gallade.

You guys have helped no end for me!

[OneofFour]

Lucario has two weaknesses Hydreigon covers well. Unfortunately, it won't take any fighting moves, which also are a problem for Luc. I guess the ability to just come out firing with Hydreigon would help a lot, but Salamence covers all three weaknesses.

Bulk Up Conkelldurr still won't like seeing any bulky ghosts move in (unless you have Payback as well), which look like they'd give this team some trouble. His weaknesses, however, are probably pretty well covered by Hydreigon (which includes the bulky ghost problem, provided it doesn't get T-Waved on a switch).

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by OneofFour

Bulk Up Conkelldurr still won't like seeing any bulky ghosts move in (unless you have Payback as well), which look like they'd give this team some trouble. His weaknesses, however, are probably pretty well covered by Hydreigon (which includes the bulky ghost problem, provided it doesn't get T-Waved on a switch).

Bulky Ghosts don't bother Conkeldurr as long has he's got +1 or +2 under his belt already. The Will-o-Wisp they give him just further increases his damage output because of Guts, and Payback smashes every Ghost-type out there. The only precaution I'd have is a Jellicent who can get in on a +0 Roob and Taunt it to prevent it from Bulk Up'ing and Cofag, who if you Payback prematurely (a +2 boost with Guts burn OHKOs it iirc) will give you Mummy and you'll have your attack devastated by the burn. I can't remember if Mummy works when you KO it but I don't think it does.

I'd much rather use Conkeldurr, tbh. :) (psst also no bulky ghosts use t-wave iirc - at least, not the common ones)

[ShinySalamence888]

Yeah I was thinking without Gallade ghosts like Gengar are gonna' cause alot of trouble. But I think the Bulk-Up set shown on the threat list looks good to go;

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback

[Vrai]

SubDisable Gengar does get a free Sub up on Conkeldurr, but then again it gets one up on Lucario, too. Just be careful around it and try to switch out on the Disable; otherwise you'll be stuck having to deal with a Gengar behind a free Sub, meaning something's going to take a chunk of damage and some of your frailer mons (ie Jolteon, the only thing that outspeeds Gengar) might be KO'd from behind that Sub. :(

[ShinySalamence888]

Originally Posted by Vrai

SubDisable Gengar does get a free Sub up on Conkeldurr, but then again it gets one up on Lucario, too. Just be careful around it and try to switch out on the Disable; otherwise you'll be stuck having to deal with a Gengar behind a free Sub, meaning something's going to take a chunk of damage and some of your frailer mons (ie Jolteon, the only thing that outspeeds Gengar) might be KO'd from behind that Sub.

I suppose, wouldn't specced Stamie be able to deal with it though? Or do most standard sets have thunderbolt on them? Sorry I'm still new and still don't know the most common sets used haha.

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by ShinySalamence888

I suppose, wouldn't specced Stamie be able to deal with it though? Or do most standard sets have thunderbolt on them? -_- Sorry I'm still new and still don't know the most common sets used haha.

They have the same base speed, meaning it comes down to a speed tie. No, but they run Shadow Ball which gets STAB and is super-effective on Starmie anyway. The thing is, with a Sub Gengar, they have the ability to lose that speed tie and only have their sub broken while they OHKO your Starmie with Shadow Ball. And if they win that speed tie, they OHKO you and keep their sub. The substitute is like a wall of protection; it lets them predict easier and makes it hard for you to kill it - once you use say Jolteon to break the sub, it'll have the chance to attack and presumably KO your Jolteon. Basically, Substitute lets Gengar beat things that outspeed it so it can sweep later on, and Conkeldurr/Lucario have the distinct disadvantage of giving it a free sub, basically.

This is a problem that everyone that runs Conkeldurr/Lucario has, and it's not too huge of one as long as you can prevent Gengar from Disabling your Payback/Crunch on the turn you use it (ie switching out on the predicted Disable). It's just that a Gengar with the ability to take a hit (ie one behind a Substitute) is much much much more dangerous than one without (ie one without a Substitute).