Round 4 OU B/W suspects

[Anti]

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

All i can say is....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH defeated.

It's nice to see that you're gracious in victory.

Uh, just from the time I played, I didn't really have a problem with auto weather just because I don't know of any evidence that suggests it's banned, for any of the three even though I basically auto-lost to Drought teams...so yeah, I like the result, I suppose.

I think the ideal thing to have happen would be for bans to just stop happening which would hopefully mean a fairly stable metagame.

[Dark Azelf]

Well i mean im getting sick of <ladderscrub_9909> who don't get voting rights commandeer the Smogon thread then make the whole topic about 'broken' weather and Excadrill are for 3 whole suspect rounds then nom every little new thing. Then have the audacity to moan about it when no one votes them uber. Its really rather annoying. Its like "If you think its that broken, then you know, shouldn't you at least get voting rights to show that it indeed is ?". Its kinda like Hitler giving out ethics advice lol. ~~ Dont get me wrong, i dont mind letting anyone nom things, but i dont like the way they carried themselves throughout the rounds. Heck even now people are being all like "imma go play Yu-gi-oh/UU/RU because i cant beat weather". :\ lol

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

Well i mean im getting sick of <ladderscrub_9909> who don't get voting rights commandeer the Smogon thread then make the whole topic about 'broken' weather and Excadrill are for 3 whole suspect rounds then nom every little new thing. Then have the audacity to moan about it when no one votes them uber. Its really rather annoying. Its like "If you think its that broken, then you know, shouldn't you at least get voting rights to show that it indeed is ?". Its kinda like Hitler giving out ethics advice lol. ~~ Dont get me wrong, i dont mind letting anyone nom things, but i dont like the way they carried themselves throughout the rounds. Heck even now people are being all like "imma go play Yu-gi-oh/UU/RU because i cant beat weather". :\ lol

yes, but think for a sec with me, unless i'm missing something: realize that the smogon nom thread or w/e is only a place that they nominate things. we don't have discussion there or counter-arguments to other people's noms. yeah, the nom thread was dominated by anti-weather but people can't say otherwise at least in that thread. you can't assume that everyone who voted agreed with the "'broken' weather" topic and obviously they didn't according to the results of the voting. however the votes were indeed close (not for sand stream but for the other two yes they were fairly close). if the decision of three or four people were to sway we might have been looking at a drizzle-less metagame. i'm just saying, it's not as obviously unbroken as you seem to describe it as, and apparently a good chunk of the userbase (the voting userbase, mind you) believes that it is. obviously it's not enough to make the difference there but i feel it was kinda unnecessary i guess lol.

and if you're talking about the discussion thread on the metagame in general, i'd like to let you know i avoid that thread entirely as it is populated with stupid people and honestly i've found that the people who really know what they're talking about have more worthwhile places to post than there.

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

Heck even now people are being all like "imma go play Yu-gi-oh/UU/RU because i cant beat weather". :\ lol

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't you say something similar to that (with ubers > yugioh duh) if weather was banned? ;/

[OneofFour]

Ha, I enjoy that Sand was by far the easiest retained of the three, though played it right it is just as powerful. I think people just got accustom to sand in gen 4, and getting rid of it now would feel too strange to them (plus oh no! My T-Tar!).

Not to say I don't agree with the decision. I've yet to play with a weather team, but I've also yet to have a serious problem with them, I'm a wifi-er though. Gotta play to your match-ups, as usual. People get too caught up in the mindset that seeing weather+pokemon A on a team means they will never be able to beat it, then don't bother thinking of strong direct counters.

As for the pokemon that are up, I don't want to see any banned. Big threats are nice, because they force teams to carry unique counters. If those unique counters become common, the big threat usage should drop. I don't buy the argument that requiring unique counters is the very definition of a pokemon that should be Uber.

[Dark Azelf]

Results timeeeeee

Originally Posted by Reach

This vote seals the fate of Thundurus, and thus every Suspect has been resolved.

The final vote for Garchomp is 55-17 Ban; this exceeds the 2/3+1 supermajority, and thus Garchomp will henceforth be banned from OU play.

The final vote for Thundurus is 46-26 Ban; this is short of the 2/3+1 supermajority, so Thundurus will automatically be a Suspect next period, and could be banned with another simple majority vote.

The final vote for Latios is 27-45 Do Not Ban; Latios is thus completely OU.

The final vote for Deoxys-e is 23-51 Do Not Ban; Deoxys-e is thus completely OU.

The final vote for Excadrill is 17-57 Do Not Ban; Excadrill is thus completely OU.

This concludes round four of the OU Suspect process!

Discuss ? =OOO

bye chompy )))))))):

[Karpman]

Is sand veil really that broken that they had to ban Garchomp? Without Sand Veil, Garchomp isn't broken at all, and 80% accuracy isn't THAT terrible, it's not like you're going to lose to every player with a Garchomp because you "can't hit it". There are a myriad of things that have the ability to wall it, kill it, or at least weaken it [aka Skarmory and Ferrothorn for the Scarf versions] and faster Dragons and Mamo for the non Scarf Versions. I'm really disappointed in the voters here, and not only because of Chomp. They didn't ban Latios, who is beaten only by things like SpD Jirachi, Priority and Faster Dragons. Deoxys-e is annoying as a lead, but it's certainly bearable, the ones that come in late game and completely wipe out your team, providing it's been worn down a bit are what truly deserve to be banned. Thundurus is pretty annoying, but there are a good number of ways to beat him, even though one of them is banned now, Chompy. At least they didn't ban Excadrill.

[Dark Azelf]

Well Sand Veil was THE main factor in its banning. You know something is wrong when people fish for misses with the Sub SD set which was quite ridiculous honestly.

But as i said there might be hope for it to come back to OU when Rough Skin is released. However it will be a huge double standard as Blaze Blaziken wasnt allowed back soo..

[Vrai]

To be quite honest the only result that stayed true to what I expected was Excadrill remaining OU. ;x

Anyway I'd much rather discuss how we'll think the metagame will develop here now as a development of Garchomp's banning rather than hate on the banning itself. Firstly, a lot of things will start seeing more use especially as choice scarfers; notably Terrakion and Landorus will be a lot more common. Salamence will start being used more too, being able to fill the void of "that fast dragon 4x weak to ice". It won't be the same as with Chomp but I feel like the metagame can proceed without it despite how well he worked as both a scarfer and a Swords Dance user. I do feel like if that Sub+SD set was never put in he'd still be easy OU, but I guess we just have to shut up and deal now lol.

[Drakow]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

MY TEAM IS RUINED V____________________V

WTF IS THIS, I DON'T EVEN.

You know, this was one of the main reasons I left competitive battling all those years ago ¬________________________________________________________________¬

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAGEQUIT @_@

I'm not so sure whether mence will see much more play since it appears that Dragonite is more popular than mence at the moment so I would expect to see more Dragonites roaming around.

[Vrai]

Well Dragonite fills a much different role than Mence does imo - it's got that fantastic ability to abuse (where Mence has Intimidate - also a good ability but not nearly as amazing as Multi-Scale) and is much more effective spamming things like CB (Outrage trucks things and it gets great priority in Extremespeed) and weather (Hurricane + Surf + Thunder etc) sets. I mean, they're both prolly gonna rise in usage but Mence's role is more like Garchomp's, imo anyway.

[Drakow]

I would argue that Haxorus would fill the gap for non scarf Garchomp though. both have Swords Dance as well as EQ and Outrage. Haxorus is a lot slower though but yeah.

[Dark Azelf]

Im just glad we have a couple more viable base >100 scarfers who hit hard to use (and D-S) or junk like Volcarona and DD Mence are going to get annoying for offense.

At least we dont have to rely on Terriblegon like we did in gen 4. x.x lol

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Drakow

I would argue that Haxorus would fill the gap for non scarf Garchomp though. both have Swords Dance as well as EQ and Outrage. Haxorus is a lot slower though but yeah.

Thing is it loses to +1 base 100s which are the important ones and yeah. Yes, Haxorus' role as a Swords Dancer is very similar to Garchomp's but I still feel like Salamence will outclass it in usage anyway. Plus, most smart people (imo anyway) don't use Hax as a set-up sweeper because its best duty is breaking down Steel-type walls for its Dragon brethren. CB sets are just much much more effective than any other kind of set Haxorus can run imo and Salamence just has the capability to fill Garchomp's role more imo. Nothing can be exactly the same as Garchomp but Mence will just be used more than anything else that's trying to do so.

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

Im just glad we have a couple more viable base >100 scarfers who hit hard to use (and D-S) or junk like Volcarona and DD Mence are going to get annoying for offense.

At least we dont have to rely on Terriblegon like we did in gen 4. x.x lol

Yeah, definitely. Stone Edge is still awful though, especially since we'll have to use it significantly more. :I

[Dark Azelf]

Also if anything i feel Landlorus is the closest thing that could take Garchomps spot as a SD sweeper.