R/B/Y: Official Project: Alpha Fan (PAF) Thread

[myrrhman]

This is the official thread for Project: Alpha Fan (PAF), which is an attempt to either break, or set (in the case there isn't a record yet) a really low time for fastest playthrough of any game in the main Pokemon series. I'm Myrrh, not the actual founder of this challenge (credit goes to ChrisTom, thanks for that), but I was one of the two people (with seal, I think) to really take a liking to this, and to try my best for it. A few attempts later, and here I am, trying to start it back up. I have a good feeling about this time, though.

Here are some rules:
1. No cheating/hacking devices are permitted (no speed codes, always crit codes, etc. Self explanatory, really.)
2. In the case of Pokemon, no taking advantage of glitches (Mew glitch, Missingno. glitch. The Pokedoll glitch doesn't count.
3. A camera must record the entire playthrough of the game, so as to assure that no cheating occured. The camera also has to record a small segment at the start showing everything that you are using.
4. No trading, to either evolve Pokemon, get better moves for the Pokemon you have, level up the Pokemon you have, or trade in new Pokemon altogether.
5. They didn't say anything about maps and charts. Yes, they are aiding us, but they don't directly effect the game, so they're fine to use.
6. I am unclear about the rule on emulators. For some reason, I think you can use emulators. I'll check with Guinness when its time to actually do the final run about all the specifics.

Here are the current members that are going to be working on this project. I'd like to keep it as small as possible after this, less people means an easier communication between us, but I might allow one or two more people. Anyways, here are some people helping on this project right now:

Myrrhman
RHIOneAlbum
Karpman
Inferno Rogue
jespoke
jdthebud
chaos11011
Alternative
BarelyMe
MamoswineFTW

For selecting Pokemon to use, I believe it best if we don't all work on the same Pokemon. Here are some of the Pokemon that are being talked about.

Nidoking, currently being tested by Myrrhman
Blastoise, currently being tested by RHIOneAlbum
Kadabra, currently being tested by Karpman
Dugtrio, currently being tested by MamoswineWTF
Venusaur
Nidoking/Blastoise duo, currently being tested by jdthebud

Here's some userbars, made by RHIOneAlbum:



The above banner made by Karpman.


This spot reserved for maps and charts.

[jespoke]

So we are 7/8 now. Lets see how this works out Most of the list (If not all) are people who talk in the CI&D regularly, with i personally like :D

Well lets get started then, with my question i started on in the CI&D:

What does segmented mean? I guessed that you record small pieces separately, and end up with a complete playthrough, but i wanted it confirmed. This allows for doing a segment over and over 'till you get that deciding crit.

While i wrote that, and the more details i ad'ed to it, the more sure i became that that was the right answer. Am i right?



I've started my research! (When i get worked up about something, i do a whole lot for it. Expect some more on my completely free tomorow ):

- 1. Gen has 3 Pokemon in the "Fast" Exp group: Chansey, Wigglytuff and Clefable. Chansey is too weak and rare, Wigglytuff has bad moves, but Clefable is viable.
- Obvious maybe, but the starters are perfect for this. Good stats and moves. All in the medium slow experience group, with needs less exp than medium fast until lv 68, making it better for this.

[InfernoRogue]

I've got working cartridges of Red, Blue, and possibly Crystal. (iirc?) If saving isn't a factor during a run, then I also have Gold and two Silvers. For later gens, I've also got pretty much every main series game except for Platinum and Black.
My only problem is that I don't have a camcorder or anything. And I'm not exactly sure how well my webcam would suffice, especially when it is implanted into the screen of my laptop. I'd have to literally flip my laptop towards the game and somehow manage to get a good camera shot, which is pretty darn hard. :/

[EternalLoathing]

Originally Posted by jespoke

I've started my research! (When i get worked up about something, i do a whole lot for it. Expect some more on my completely free tomorow ):

- 1. Gen has 3 Pokemon in the "Fast" Exp group: Chansey, Wigglytuff and Clefable. Chansey is too weak and rare, Wigglytuff has bad moves, but Clefable is viable.
- Obvious maybe, but the starters are perfect for this. Good stats and moves. All in the medium slow experience group, with needs less exp than medium fast until lv 68, making it better for this.

IF we doing Speed RU,Bulbasaur's the best,super effective against 2 first gyms,and good against Surge

[jespoke]

Some small seconds you can gain thousands of:

- High speed and attack/special is handy, as it makes battles go far faster than with defensive build pokemon.
- Battle animations off
- Use repels
- Use healing items rather than going back
- Don't alter your path to get an extra potion, poke ball etc.
- Buy many items at a time
- Choose Max repel over super repel ect.

[EternalLoathing]

I guess emu woulld be okay with exceptions of the SPEED button

[Porygon Z]

I'm with this!
Can I do this Guinness on emulators?

[EternalLoathing]

I only have cartridges of DPPt,HgSs and BW

[jdthebud]

The best Pokemon for a segmented run is Blastoise. why? Mega Punch/Dig take care of Misty and Surge, and after those gyms he gets overleveled. In the Elite Four, he learns Ice Beam and Fissure (with X Accuracys), as well as Surf. That coupled with saving for the segaments...

Really, the tough part is the begininng. You need to get a somewhat high IV squirtle, i believe, which can make for some initial resets and testing.

once you get to Celedon City, the battles get easier, and it becomes more about taking the right path and managing healing, etc.

I would strongly encourage watching the 1:59 run that's posted on Speed Demos Archive.

These runs also include notes by the guy running it, which could be helpful for noobs at this like me. There's a lot of planning involved, especially with paths and stuff.

I have to say that it will be incredibly difficult to beat the times listed, but since these aren't official Guinness WR (IIRC)....

oh, and I have a Blue cart and Pocket Gameboy. I have to wonder what the method for capturing the video will be.

[jespoke]

I just thought: Is a solo that much faster than a duo with types that compliment each other? I mean, the 1.59 looses some time on 3/4HKO's in Gym/Rival Battles and 2HKO's that could be OHKO's :/

[myrrhman]

I'm breaking this post into two parts. Part 1, I'm answering your posts and stuff. Part 2, I'm contributing new stuff.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by jespoke

So we are 7/8 now. Lets see how this works out Most of the list (If not all) are people who talk in the CI&D regularly, with i personally like :D
Woohoo, you like us! We like you too.
Well lets get started then, with my question i started on in the CI&D:

What does segmented mean? I guessed that you record small pieces separately, and end up with a complete playthrough, but i wanted it confirmed. This allows for doing a segment over and over 'till you get that deciding crit.

While i wrote that, and the more details i added to it, the more sure i became that that was the right answer. Am i right?

Yeah, you're right. Segmented just means that they did it with saving the game, and if something that they didn't like happened, they could reload from last save. There are records for segmented runs and nonsegmented runs, some games just have one or the other, some have both. My thinking is that we go for the nonsegmented run first. This record is 2:39. If we can beat this by like half an hour, but still can't beat the 1:59 mark, then we just segment our run. I'm sure we can save a few minutes by doing this...

I've started my research! (When i get worked up about something, i do a whole lot for it. Expect some more on my completely free tomorrow ):

- 1st Gen has 3 Pokemon in the "Fast" Exp group: Chansey, Wigglytuff and Clefable. Chansey is too weak and rare, Wigglytuff has bad moves, but Clefable is viable.
- Obvious maybe, but the starters are perfect for this. Good stats and moves. All in the medium slow experience group, with needs less exp than medium fast until lv 68, making it better for this.
The only problem with Clefable is that its really hard to catch. Clefairy is really rare in Mt. Moon, and I'm pretty sure it has a really low catch rate when you do find it. As for the starters: Bulbasaur would be all right if there was an easy way to train him up to lv. 13, when he learns Vine Whip. That's the only easy way to beat Brock. If someone thinks that this would be worth it, that Venusaur's high special will save enough time that you'll need to use at the beginning, then go ahead. For Charmander, the only problem is Brock. If you get a Charmander, there is no easy way to beat Brock. You'd have to either catch a Caterpie and evolve it to Butterfree to teach it Confusion, or catch a Mankey and level it to 9 to teach it Low Kick. Squirtle, however, is a viable Pokemon to use.

Bolded my comments for you

Originally Posted by InfernoRogue

I've got working cartridges of Red, Blue, and possibly Crystal. (iirc?) If saving isn't a factor during a run, then I also have Gold and two Silvers. For later gens, I've also got pretty much every main series game except for Platinum and Black.
My only problem is that I don't have a camcorder or anything. And I'm not exactly sure how well my webcam would suffice, especially when it is implanted into the screen of my laptop. I'd have to literally flip my laptop towards the game and somehow manage to get a good camera shot, which is pretty darn hard. :/

I can borrow one of my friends' Red Versions. As for recording, I have a camcorder and stuff, if it comes down to it, I can get a friend to hold it for me or something.

Originally Posted by EternalLoathing

IF we doing Speed RU,Bulbasaur's the best,super effective against 2 first gyms,and good against Surge

See above comment.

Originally Posted by jespoke

Some small seconds you can gain thousands of:

- High speed and attack/special is handy, as it makes battles go far faster than with defensive build pokemon.
- Battle animations off
- Use repels
- Use healing items rather than going back
- Don't alter your path to get an extra potion, poke ball etc.
- Buy many items at a time
- Choose Max repel over super repel etc.

The way I see it, this should be broken down into 4 phases.
-Phase 1: We, for the most part, get the Pokemon we're going to use, including movesets.
-Phase 2: We do initial testing, and learn exactly which moves to use on which Pokemon, which trainers to avoid, etc. I'll show you an example of what I thought of.
-Phase 3: We focus on items. We determine exactly what items to pick up, and which items to buy from marts. This includes Repels. If we determine that you need a combined 12 repels before you get to a city with super repels, then by all means, go ahead and buy 12 repels, if you can afford it.
-Phase 4: All the research is done. We grab a camcorder and begin attempting solid run throughs, until we beat the record!

Originally Posted by EternalLoathing

I guess emu woulld be okay with exceptions of the SPEED button

Although I'm pretty sure that emulators are all right to use, I'd much rather use a cartridge. Its just more official that way.

Originally Posted by Porygon Z

I'm with this!
Can I do this Guinness on emulators?

Yup you can. If you don't have a MSN account, make one and send me the email address. Hopefully, this will be how we stay in contact with each other.

Originally Posted by EternalLoathing

I only have cartridges of DPPt,HgSs and BW

If we beat this record, these cartridges might come in handy down the road.

Originally Posted by jdthebud

The best Pokemon for a segmented run is Blastoise. why? Mega Punch/Dig take care of Misty and Surge, and after those gyms he gets overleveled. In the Elite Four, he learns Ice Beam and Fissure (with X Accuracys), as well as Surf. That coupled with saving for the segments...

Really, the tough part is the beginning. You need to get a somewhat high IV squirtle, i believe, which can make for some initial resets and testing.

once you get to Celedon City, the battles get easier, and it becomes more about taking the right path and managing healing, etc.

I would strongly encourage watching the 1:59 run that's posted on Speed Demos Archive.

These runs also include notes by the guy running it, which could be helpful for noobs at this like me. There's a lot of planning involved, especially with paths and stuff.

I have to say that it will be incredibly difficult to beat the times listed, but since these aren't official Guinness WR (IIRC)....

oh, and I have a Blue cart and Pocket Gameboy. I have to wonder what the method for capturing the video will be.

I agree with jd, watch the videos. I don't know how high IV you need a Squirtle, but in my Nidoran M run, I've got a Squirtle who can 3 hit both of Brock's Pokemon (I think). And this is fairly low leveled, considering that Nidoran M was getting some of the exp too. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone's run gets easier at Celedon. You can either learn Ice Beam, Rock Slide, Tri Attack, Mega Drain, and very very shortly after entering Celedon, Psychic. Seems like that benefits almost all the Pokemon (Maybe not electric types so much...)

Originally Posted by jespoke

I just thought: Is a solo that much faster than a duo with types that compliment each other? I mean, the 1.59 looses some time on 3/4HKO's in Gym/Rival Battles and 2HKO's that could be OHKO's :/

I think it probably is, especially near the end of the game. Almost all the Pokemon we're considering have really good type coverage (other than Kadabra). Nidoking has Rock Slide, EQ, BoltBeam, Surf, and Body Slam/Strength/Mega Punch/Hyper Beam. Blastoise has Surf, Ice Beam, EQ/Fissure, and the previously mentioned normal type attacks. Kadabra, although lacking in type coverage, makes up for it by having a ridiculously high Special. He can also learn moves like Body Slam or Mega Punch for when he's up against another Psychic type. It will be crappy attack vs. crappy defense, so he might actually be able to one hit someone there.

I will say though, I think its all right to use a select few 'back up' Pokemon. I think probably Zapdos, Moltres, and possibly Snorlax are it, though. IIRC, Zapdos was used in the 1:59 record run. But all of these Pokemon (with the exception of maybe Snorlax) don't need any experience to be good. You just get them, slap on maybe one or two TMs, and they're ready for the Elite Four.

[BarelyMe]

Can I help?I can play games of the GenIV and GenV games on my DS.I have a msn,[email protected]

[jespoke]

@ Myrrh
Ok, I'll give some of the rarer used stuff, like duo and charmander a try though, mainly because i like having multiple pokemon and Charmander Not both at the same time though, is i don't have a good partner for fire :/

[Alternative]

I guess I'll be helping out with this, since my name is listed lmao. I won't be able to offer much support though, but I'll try to give some pointers out whenever I can. :)

[myrrhman]

Bah, I'll just make a new post instead of editing that one. More people will see it...

Below, I'm going to tell you how I picked the Pokemon I thought were worthy of trying. What I advise, if you want to follow this, is to find an image of all the Pokemon, get in Microsoft Paint, and erase/cross them out when you take them off the list. So, without further ado, here is Myrrh's 5 steps to picking a Pokemon:

Spoiler:

Step 1: Obviously, the Pokemon must be in your game. So, you can mark off all the Pokemon that aren't 1-150 (Mark off Mew, he's technically unobtainable). If you really want to do red over blue, or blue over red, you can mark off the Pokemon not in that game too.
Step 2: It does you no good if you want to solo with a Starmie, because you can't get Starmie until so late in the game. All the Pokemon you fight will be too high for you to OHKO, which is what you want for the second half of the game. You will probably need a Pokemon fairly early in the game, or else you'll be wasting experience on your starter (unless you want to try a duo run). For this reason, I marked off everyone that requires Surf to get, a good/super rod, and are found after Snorlax in Celadon City. You can beat Brock, Beat Misty, cut down the bush, Pokedoll the Marowak in the tower, and get a Pokeflute, all with just two badges, but even that is a bit much probably. Time is of the essence, and there isn't much time for backtracking to level up a new Pokemon.
Step 3: The Pokemon can't be hard to catch, or hard to train once you catch it. Clefairy is rare and hard to catch. Magikarp is hard to train once you catch it. Abra is hard to find, hard to catch, and hard to train. HOWEVER you can get Abra at the Celadon Game Corner for 120 coins (which you can find on the ground, I know of a 100 coin spot and at least one 20 coin spot. You can then waltz over to Saffron and teach it Psychic. There you go, now you have a usable Pokemon (especially if you have Body Slam/Mega Punch for Kadabra)
Step 4. From here on the steps can easily be disputed. Step 4 is that the Pokemon must have somewhat decent type coverage, with at least 2 strong attacks of different types other than Normal. Strong attacks imo are: Strength/Mega Punch/Slash/Body Slam/Hyper Beam (maybe), Flamethrower, Bubble Beam/Surf, Razor Leaf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Submission, Earthquake, Drill Peck/Fly, Psychic, Rock Slide. I don't include Fire Blast, Thunder, or Blizzard, because I don't like their inaccuracy, and if we're trying to beat the nonsegmented record, we need attacks that will hit. Also, be sure to take Hitmonchan out here, after all, the elemental punches are still Special based in RBY. This is where Kadabra possibly makes an exception. Some Pokemon, like Kadabra, just have so much Attack or Special, that it doesn't matter that much that they have good type coverage, because they can just overpower anything they fight. For other Pokemon like Alakazams, Kadabra, although he has an awful Attack stat, can use moves like Mega Punch, Body Slam, or Dig to possibly still defeat the enemy Pokemon.
Step 5. From here, you should just have a few Pokemon left (I think I had about 13 families left. Now, just compare them side by side til you're down to 1. Nidoking is better than Nidoqueen because he has better Attack and Speed, as opposed to her Defense and HP. If we're at the end of the game, we're going to be hopefully OHKOing all the Pokemon we face. With extra Speed and Attack, we can OHKO pokemon faster and earlier in the game. Nidoking also trumps Primeape and Graveler because again of his superior "useful" stats, and this time, he can learn more strong moves. Continue doing this until you only have one Pokemon left!

Next, I have a few maps and charts that might be useful. The first one is a complete map of Kanto, with every pickupable item, every trainer with every Pokemon that they have, all with a note of how much exp you get from every Pokemon. Just posting the link in a spoiler, the map is so big.

Spoiler:

http://img844.imageshack.us/edit_pre...&action=rotate

Here's a list of all the "bosses" in the game, along with the stats that each of their Pokemon have

Spoiler:

I couldn't get Rival inside Pokemon Tower, because the ghosts prevent you from catching his Pokemon, even if you have a code on for catch enemy Pokemon.
Here is what I think should happen every run. Its a list of which moves to use on the Pokemon you fight.

Spoiler:

Method for level 3 Nidoran M:
Beat 2 Lv. 3 wild Pokemon on the way to Nidoran
Buy 4 Pokeballs
Catch a Spearow
Nidoran vs. Weedle (2 Leer/5 Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Caterpie (1 Tail Whip/3 Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (3 Leer/4 Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Kakuna (Bubbles)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (1 Leer/4 Tackles)
Wild either Lv. 5 Weedle/Caterpie (scenario 1) or Kakuna/Metapod (Scenario 2) or Lv. 4 Kakuna/Metapod (Scenario 1)
If Scenario 1, battle any extra wild Pokemon before leaving . If scenario 2, don’t.
Nidoran vs. Weedle (1 Leer and 2 Horn Attacks, if that doesn’t kill him, Tackle)
Should have: Squirtle Lv. 9 and Nidoran Lv. 9, Spearow. Items: 4-5 Potions, 0-2 Pokeballs, Antidote
Don’t heal at Center. Use Potion on Nidoran.
Nidoran vs. Diglett (3 Horn Attack)
Squirtle vs. Sandshrew (Bubbles)
Squirtle vs. Geodude (Bubbles)
Squirtle vs. Onix (Bubbles)
1 Badge: Squirtle Lv. 12, Nidoran Lv. 10, Spearow. Items: 3-4 Potions, 0-2 Pokeballs, Antidote
Dodge first Lass
Nidoran vs. Caterpie (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Caterpie (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle: use Potion when you get to about 4 health)
Go back for Lass: Nidoran vs. Pidgey (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Pidgey (3 Bubbles and a Tackle)

Gray highlight is for what to buy in shops, Green is random checkpoints to make sure I'm on the right levels, and light blue is another check up after every gym leader.


More info coming soon

[jdthebud]

As for items: X ITEMS ROCK!!!!!!!! Especially if you are using Fissure or Horn Drill, although for a nonsegmented, you wouldn't use those moves. Segmented, Blizzard and Thunder become useable as well.

Also, the Zapdos was used in the NON segmented run. the 1:59 just had Blastoise with Surf, Blizzard, Fissure, and Strength, and was at L52 when he challenged the champion. He relied a lot on luck manipulation and X items, especially in the Elite Four.

[BarelyMe]

Well,what would be the remaining families?

Squirtle
NidoranM
NidoranF
Abra

ANd 9 more.

[jespoke]

Originally Posted by myrrhman

Bah, I'll just make a new post instead of editing that one. More people will see it...

Below, I'm going to tell you how I picked the Pokemon I thought were worthy of trying. What I advise, if you want to follow this, is to find an image of all the Pokemon, get in Microsoft Paint, and erase/cross them out when you take them off the list. So, without further ado, here is Myrrh's 5 steps to picking a Pokemon:

Spoiler:

Step 1: Obviously, the Pokemon must be in your game. So, you can mark off all the Pokemon that aren't 1-150 (Mark off Mew, he's technically unobtainable). If you really want to do red over blue, or blue over red, you can mark off the Pokemon not in that game too.
Step 2: It does you no good if you want to solo with a Starmie, because you can't get Starmie until so late in the game. All the Pokemon you fight will be too high for you to OHKO, which is what you want for the second half of the game. You will probably need a Pokemon fairly early in the game, or else you'll be wasting experience on your starter (unless you want to try a duo run). For this reason, I marked off everyone that requires Surf to get, a good/super rod, and are found after Snorlax in Celadon City. You can beat Brock, Beat Misty, cut down the bush, Pokedoll the Marowak in the tower, and get a Pokeflute, all with just two badges, but even that is a bit much probably. Time is of the essence, and there isn't much time for backtracking to level up a new Pokemon.
Step 3: The Pokemon can't be hard to catch, or hard to train once you catch it. Clefairy is rare and hard to catch. Magikarp is hard to train once you catch it. Abra is hard to find, hard to catch, and hard to train. HOWEVER you can get Abra at the Celadon Game Corner for 120 coins (which you can find on the ground, I know of a 100 coin spot and at least one 20 coin spot. You can then waltz over to Saffron and teach it Psychic. There you go, now you have a usable Pokemon (especially if you have Body Slam/Mega Punch for Kadabra)
Step 4. From here on the steps can easily be disputed. Step 4 is that the Pokemon must have somewhat decent type coverage, with at least 2 strong attacks of different types other than Normal. Strong attacks imo are: Strength/Mega Punch/Slash/Body Slam/Hyper Beam (maybe), Flamethrower, Bubble Beam/Surf, Razor Leaf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Submission, Earthquake, Drill Peck/Fly, Psychic, Rock Slide. I don't include Fire Blast, Thunder, or Blizzard, because I don't like their inaccuracy, and if we're trying to beat the nonsegmented record, we need attacks that will hit. Also, be sure to take Hitmonchan out here, after all, the elemental punches are still Special based in RBY. This is where Kadabra possibly makes an exception. Some Pokemon, like Kadabra, just have so much Attack or Special, that it doesn't matter that much that they have good type coverage, because they can just overpower anything they fight. For other Pokemon like Alakazams, Kadabra, although he has an awful Attack stat, can use moves like Mega Punch, Body Slam, or Dig to possibly still defeat the enemy Pokemon.
Step 5. From here, you should just have a few Pokemon left (I think I had about 13 families left. Now, just compare them side by side til you're down to 1. Nidoking is better than Nidoqueen because he has better Attack and Speed, as opposed to her Defense and HP. If we're at the end of the game, we're going to be hopefully OHKOing all the Pokemon we face. With extra Speed and Attack, we can OHKO pokemon faster and earlier in the game. Nidoking also trumps Primeape and Graveler because again of his superior "useful" stats, and this time, he can learn more strong moves. Continue doing this until you only have one Pokemon left!

Next, I have a few maps and charts that might be useful. The first one is a complete map of Kanto, with every pickupable item, every trainer with every Pokemon that they have, all with a note of how much exp you get from every Pokemon. Just posting the link in a spoiler, the map is so big.

Spoiler:

http://img844.imageshack.us/edit_pre...&action=rotate

Here's a list of all the "bosses" in the game, along with the stats that each of their Pokemon have

Spoiler:

I couldn't get Rival inside Pokemon Tower, because the ghosts prevent you from catching his Pokemon, even if you have a code on for catch enemy Pokemon.
Here is what I think should happen every run. Its a list of which moves to use on the Pokemon you fight.

Spoiler:

Method for level 3 Nidoran M:
Beat 2 Lv. 3 wild Pokemon on the way to Nidoran
Buy 4 Pokeballs
Catch a Spearow
Nidoran vs. Weedle (2 Leer/5 Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Caterpie (1 Tail Whip/3 Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (3 Leer/4 Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Kakuna (Bubbles)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (1 Leer/4 Tackles)
Wild either Lv. 5 Weedle/Caterpie (scenario 1) or Kakuna/Metapod (Scenario 2) or Lv. 4 Kakuna/Metapod (Scenario 1)
If Scenario 1, battle any extra wild Pokemon before leaving . If scenario 2, don’t.
Nidoran vs. Weedle (1 Leer and 2 Horn Attacks, if that doesn’t kill him, Tackle)
Should have: Squirtle Lv. 9 and Nidoran Lv. 9, Spearow. Items: 4-5 Potions, 0-2 Pokeballs, Antidote
Don’t heal at Center. Use Potion on Nidoran.
Nidoran vs. Diglett (3 Horn Attack)
Squirtle vs. Sandshrew (Bubbles)
Squirtle vs. Geodude (Bubbles)
Squirtle vs. Onix (Bubbles)
1 Badge: Squirtle Lv. 12, Nidoran Lv. 10, Spearow. Items: 3-4 Potions, 0-2 Pokeballs, Antidote
Dodge first Lass
Nidoran vs. Caterpie (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Weedle (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Nidoran vs. Caterpie (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle: use Potion when you get to about 4 health)
Go back for Lass: Nidoran vs. Pidgey (2 Horn Attacks and a Tackle)
Squirtle vs. Pidgey (3 Bubbles and a Tackle)

Gray highlight is for what to buy in shops, Green is random checkpoints to make sure I'm on the right levels, and light blue is another check up after every gym leader.


More info coming soon

WOW 0.o Those things are extremely useful :D Especially knowing with trainers have single, high exp yielding Pokemon like the optional jigglypuff lass on route 3 imao

[Hacki101]

I would like to help, but what i was going to do has already been done (Listing exp for each trainer). A note to say if each trainer is skippable would also be useful and at what consequence (eg some bug trainers in VForest you go through extra grass).

How about calculations on how much exp you need before certain trainers (Nugget bridge rival comes to mind and Brock) where you have a 95% chance of winning, thus maximising speed and lowering the likelyness of blacking out. Of course the luck percentile could be changed according to how much time we need to shave off/ how many people we have trying/ the patience of people playing/ how often we want to risk losing.

On the map we could mark out the quickest line through kanto, tile by tile if this already hasnt been done, skipping the unneeded trainers as necessary.

I would be interested in doing the above experiments

Also, myrrh, how far have you got through planning and that because I know you have been working on this for a while.

I have spare cartridges as well for whenever we need them but no camera on the GBA (I would be able to play on an emulator to record but I wuld want it on the cartridge too)

EDIT: On the website linked above the guy who does Crystal doesn't evolve Totodile until Level 20 as it gets Bite in time for whatever he needs it for (I havn't watched it, only read it) Would we consider doing this... examples: Bulba learns Razor Leaf at 20, Ivy 22; Charmeleon learns Flamethrower at 42, Charizard at 46 but no Wing Att.

Is switching to Snorlax/ Legend bird halfway through going to be a quicker option?

And finally, good luck!! (I will watching/helping with interest)

[Alternative]

What I think I could do to help is make paths of some of the routes to skip whatever trainers you think need skipping. I could mark all the trainers that stand still, which are impossible to avoid and those which look at you no matter which direction you take.

[myrrhman]

Originally Posted by Hacki101

I would like to help, but what i was going to do has already been done (Listing exp for each trainer). A note to say if each trainer is skippable would also be useful and at what consequence (eg some bug trainers in VForest you go through extra grass).

How about calculations on how much exp you need before certain trainers (Nugget bridge rival comes to mind and Brock) where you have a 95% chance of winning, thus maximising speed and lowering the likelyness of blacking out. Of course the luck percentile could be changed according to how much time we need to shave off/ how many people we have trying/ the patience of people playing/ how often we want to risk losing.
Thing is, though, I think we're going to be doing different Pokemon, so you'd have to do this like 3-4 times.
On the map we could mark out the quickest line through kanto, tile by tile if this already hasnt been done, skipping the unneeded trainers as necessary.
Hasn't been done, but that's because in some cases it might be better to fight the trainers that you don't have to fight, as that's our most reliable place for exp. I think we need to get through the game, and then after we figure that out, then go back and do this.
I would be interested in doing the above experiments

Also, myrrh, how far have you got through planning and that because I know you have been working on this for a while.
Not far at all. I'm very good at getting distracted. Right now, the only written documentation of what I've done is the map, boss stats list, and the bit about Nidoran that I've posted. There's a bunch more stored in my head though. Just no easy way of writing it all out.
I have spare cartridges as well for whenever we need them but no camera on the GBA (I would be able to play on an emulator to record but I wuld want it on the cartridge too)

EDIT: On the website linked above the guy who does Crystal doesn't evolve Totodile until Level 20 as it gets Bite in time for whatever he needs it for (I havn't watched it, only read it) Would we consider doing this... examples: Bulba learns Razor Leaf at 20, Ivy 22; Charmeleon learns Flamethrower at 42, Charizard at 46 but no Wing Att.
If we think that using Bulbasaur and waiting til he learns Vine Whip to fight Brock is a good idea, then we very well might wait til 20 to evolve. IIRC, when I usually do like a Monotype with Bulbasaur or something, I seem to usually evolve on one of the first trainers you fight after Brock. I'm sure that the rest of the trainers will probably get him 4 more levels (and we'd have a rare candy to possibly use if we needed it). That might be worth it. As for Charmeleon, I'm not sure that waiting 6 levels for a move as opposed to using Charizard for 10 levels is a good idea.
Is switching to Snorlax/ Legend bird halfway through going to be a quicker option?
I don't know about Snorlax, Articuno takes a while to get to, but could potentially be worth it. Moltres is right there in VR, but has crappy moves, and Zapdos is a bit off, but has good moves. Take yoru pick.
And finally, good luck!! (I will watching/helping with interest)

Originally Posted by Alternative

What I think I could do to help is make paths of some of the routes to skip whatever trainers you think need skipping. I could mark all the trainers that stand still, which are impossible to avoid and those which look at you no matter which direction you take.

If you look at my map, at the beginning, I had color coded the trainers to ones you had to battle and ones you didn't. I stopped doing that like east of Cerulean, because it was just too much work. You could do that, I guess.

[jdthebud]

I just want to point out that if you are using Nidoran♂ (what are the other optional Pokemon, anyway?), use Red Version. Also, you can catch Spearow on the way to Mt. Moon if you don't see it on Rt. 22 right away.

I'm planning on starting a trial run soon, trying to go off the video/map for the path, and using Blastoise and Nidoking. I'll post updates here I guess. I will be saving, but won't be resetting unless I get wiped out or make a colossal mistake.

So what's the plan with MSN, Myrrh?

[jespoke]

I'll do a Charizard solo for my first trial, just to see if he deserves entering the viable list :D Will use butterfree, beat all the bug catchers and not use repels or run before brock

What are good slaves? I will give Charizard Strength, but not cut, and it cant learn fly before yellow

Edit: I walked through as much grass as possible in viridian forest, but i only met kakuna and even a pikachu, but no caterpie! but i beat all of the kakunas and optional trainers, thus being able to solo brock with only 2 potions (Even if he wouldn't have used 2 full heals on a 1 hp geodude that got burned )
0.21

[mamoswineftw]

Hey guys I'd like to contribute to this, with tips and such, and perhaps even a run through on my old blue cart.

First thing I'd like to say is that Dugtrio is a surprisingly useful pokemon. Dig as soon as you get it (even as a Diglett), and the only training it really needs is to go through is Vermillion's Gym. Also, Gen I crit mechanics combined with Slash and blistering speed could prove to be useful, critting everything in sight that doesn't resist Normal, and those can be taken care of with Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter he gets via TM).

I'm happy to test this out if nobody else has the time. With a moveset of Slash/EQ/Rock Slide/Filler, Dugtrio can potentially take out:

Lt Surge's gym
Erika's gym (speed+slash?)
Koga's gym
Sabrina's gym (high speed, Slash and pokemon's low defences)
Blaine's gym (EQ/Dig)
A few of Giovanni's pokemon
4/5 of Lorelei's pokemon with SE Rock Slide, maybe Slowbro with Slash
Brock's Onixes with EQ/Dig, others with Slash maybe
Agatha with Rock Slide for Golbat, rest with Dig/EQ
Dragonite/Aerodactyl/Gyarados with Rock Slide
Pidgeot/Gyarados/Arcanine/Alakazam with various moves

I know there are other pokemon that could defeat all these people, just wanted to highlight this under-appreciated pokemon's usefullness.

[jespoke]

Originally Posted by mamoswineftw

Hey guys I'd like to contribute to this, with tips and such, and perhaps even a run through on my old blue cart.

First thing I'd like to say is that Dugtrio is a surprisingly useful pokemon. Dig as soon as you get it (even as a Diglett), and the only training it really needs is to go through is Vermillion's Gym. Also, Gen I crit mechanics combined with Slash and blistering speed could prove to be useful, critting everything in sight that doesn't resist Normal, and those can be taken care of with Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter he gets via TM).

I'm happy to test this out if nobody else has the time. With a moveset of Slash/EQ/Rock Slide/Filler, Dugtrio can potentially take out:
[HIDE]
Lt Surge's gym
Erika's gym (speed+slash?)
Koga's gym
Sabrina's gym (high speed, Slash and pokemon's low defences)
Blaine's gym (EQ/Dig)
A few of Giovanni's pokemon
4/5 of Lorelei's pokemon with SE Rock Slide, maybe Slowbro with Slash
Brock's Onixes with EQ/Dig, others with Slash maybe
Agatha with Rock Slide for Golbat, rest with Dig/EQ
Dragonite/Aerodactyl/Gyarados with Rock Slide
Pidgeot/Gyarados/Arcanine/Alakazam with various moves
[/HIDE]

I know there are other pokemon that could defeat all these people, just wanted to highlight this under-appreciated pokemon's usefullness.

Good idea :D Using Bulbasaur or Squirtle until you get it, and then solo with critter () or going duo with starter and dugtio Starter is up to own preference: Blastoise has better coverage, while Venusaur has better special and razor leaf.