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Old July 1st, 2011 (02:56 AM).
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Don't Smash That Shell, Gorebyss!

Introduction


As you may or may not of noticed I've kinda come back and started playing Gen V. It's a lot of fun and in my opinion very different from Gen IV, especially with all the rain and SS team floating around. My main focus for this team is Shell Smash and passing it on to my main two sweepers, everyone else is mainly to support these two Pokemon and check stuff which may otherwise screw the team over. I made a few changes today and tested this on the Official PO server with a 26-7 streak, it seems to be working fine however I've decided to post it up mainly because I've discovered some issues I need to iron out and it's my first attempt at a decent team in like 8 months I think :x

A Quick Look



Under The Hood



Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 176 HP / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock


Wow this lead is amazing, in almost every match it has gotten me at least SR + one screen. Dual screens are amazing with all the new powerhouses running around this generation and make Gorebyss setting up Shell Smash just so much easier. While you may question my lack of Taunt which I do miss a lot of the time Ice Beam means I can pick off weakened Dragons or revenge dragons that run DD sets like Haxourous and Mence. While I do occasionally keep him around I usually let him die early game. With SR + screens up it gives me ample time to setup my Shell Smash sweep.

Gorebyss @ White Herb
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass


This is basically the heart and soul of the team and basically what the team resolves around. I usually try send her in right after Deoxys is done laying screens and setup if the opposing Pokemon can't really hurt her. I usually try pass a Shell Smash straight to Mence / Metagross however she also kinda serves as a backup check to rain teams as she can take advantage of the rain. I'm not running Calm 252HP/24SpD simply because it didn't work for me, Gorebyss still got offed by any powerful special attack so I decided to chuck it into defense and rely on Deoxys S getting that Light Screen up.


Latios @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Trick


Last gen I always dissed Scarf Latios/Latias as "Pursuit bait" however I've found it works a lot better this gen maybe because I may be wrong but Pursuit seems to be used a lot less. Every Scizor I've seen so far has been SD and Tyranitar is really not much of a problem for this team. Basically he's here to check anything which otherwise causes my team some issues such as Jolteon, Terrakion, Virizion and Infernape. While his main purpose is revenging I find also use him a lot just to clean up after Mence and Metagross are finished with the opponent's team. Trick is always handy for screwing Chansey and Specially Defensive Jirachi over.


Salamence @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive
EV's: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break
- Outrage
- Fire Blast


Same old, same old. MixMence is really my main receipent of Shell Smash, after receiving he can usually take out half the opponent's team if I play him right, nothing enjoys taking hits from him. He mainly softens the opponents team up so the rest can cleanup. Salamence is also my main defense against stall which this team struggles with to some extent. If I get a Shell Smash and predict correctly I can wreck most stall teams but if I lose him first I find I have a really difficult time.


Metagross @ Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Ice Punch
- Thunderpunch
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake


My second receipent of Shell Smash, while Mence goes out and decimates the opponent's team it usually dies pretty fast taking down 1-2 Pokemon down with it Metagross tends to stick around more due to his reasonable bulk and resistance to basically all form of proirity. Lum Berry means I usually don't have to fear stuff trying to paralyze or burn him. One minor gripe is that even after a Shell Smash lots of stuff still outspeed him. I tried running Jolly but the loss in power was quite noticeable so I switched back.


Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Nature: Timid
EV's: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Charge Beam


The most debatable member of my team however he does a good job of keeping some annoying stuff away like Jirachi, Skarmory and especially Ferrathon in place. Usually when Latios and Salamence lure in Bulky Steels I send this guy out to trap and kill them usually setting up a Sub since most Steel can't break Magenzone's Sub in two hits. Magnezone also tends to lure in special walls which Gorebyss can setup on most of the time. He's also my only chance at taking Excadrill down which is a big problem for me.

Team Building Process


Spoiler:
Well being the rusty noob that I am I wasn't sure where to start, Smash Shell was really intriguing to me for some reason and I wanted to centre my team around it. I had three choices, Huntail, Gorebyss or Smergle. Smergle is ass, Huntail sucks and Gorebyss is alright. It's got decent bulk and good offensive stats so it was the most suitable candiate imo.

Next even though Gorebyss defensive stats are fairly decent, it still can't take too many hits so I need to provide it with something to help it setup easier. Dual Screens comes to mind, I picked two guys Deoxys-S or Uxie. Uxie is good but too slow and Taunt weak so I went with Deoxys-S.

Now for my Shell Smash receipents, I wanted something which could hit hard from either end of the spetrum. MixApe and MixMence came to my mind, MixMence has always been a favourite of mine and one of the most deadly sets from last gen so I figured why not?

While browsing Smogon I came across a very successful Shell Smash team which looked pretty similar to mine except had Metagross instead of Mence. The set looked pretty cool and I needed a Dragon-resist so Meta went in.

Scarf Latios, I'll admit I kinda threw this in. It boosts an Electric resist which I needed quite badly and checked threats like Specs Jolteon which otherwise would've been a pain in the *ss.


Finally I looked at a few teams on Smogon and it was clear Steel types were becoming quite dominant. I figured with them out of the way Mence/Latios/Metagross would have a much easier time sweeping so I put in Magnezone to trap and kill them.


Conclusion




Problems
  • Excadrill - I despise this thing, unless I've managed to BP a Shell Smash to Mence or it is weakened enough for Magnezone to take out (Below about 70%) it always takes out a large portion of the team in a SS. Perhaps Magenzone --> Gliscor could work? Any suggestions?
  • Weather teams - Rain teams are a pretty big issue especially stuff that can further boost their stats like Kingdra which after a DD in rain can basically 6-0 me. I need to find some form of check for that + Excadrill.
Overall I quite like this team, it's extremely satisfying when I do manage to pull a sweep. I only posted up pretty quick cause this team was just a test to see what the new metagame is like. Any help would be appreciated.


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  #2    
Old July 1st, 2011 (03:05 AM).
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This is a cute team, with a name that only the great Pokedra would come up with, but it can probably be better. Firstly, since this is a Shell Smash team, you'll want Taunt on Deoxys-S, to prevent hazing or Roaring during the Smashpassing. However, I'd suggest using Espeon over Deoxys-S. Why? Well Espeon's Magic Bounce ability directs all effects of MOST non damaging attacks, back at their foe. For example, if I used Roar on Magic Bounce Espeon, then I get Roared out, instead. Espeon can set up Screens as well, so SR is the only thing that you're losing. Magnezone is pretty good when you're using a lot of dragons, which you are, to an extent, but you're obviously going to have to predict with it, and get a free switch in on an Excadrill EQ, for it to manage a kill. Rotom-W is helpful for beating Rain teams and it's still an electric type, but I'm not sure where it would stand, synergy-wise, since it won't play the same role as Magnezone.
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Old July 1st, 2011 (03:22 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Karpman:
This is a cute team, with a name that only the great Pokedra would come up with, but it can probably be better. Firstly, since this is a Shell Smash team, you'll want Taunt on Deoxys-S, to prevent hazing or Roaring during the Smashpassing. However, I'd suggest using Espeon over Deoxys-S. Why? Well Espeon's Magic Bounce ability directs all effects of MOST non damaging attacks, back at their foe. For example, if I used Roar on Magic Bounce Espeon, then I get Roared out, instead. Espeon can set up Screens as well, so SR is the only thing that you're losing. Magnezone is pretty good when you're using a lot of dragons, which you are, to an extent, but you're obviously going to have to predict with it, and get a free switch in on an Excadrill EQ, for it to manage a kill. Rotom-W is helpful for beating Rain teams and it's still an electric type, but I'm not sure where it would stand, synergy-wise, since it won't play the same role as Magnezone.
I originally had Taunt but Ice Beam has really been fantastic for checking Dragon's but I do understand where you're coming from and there have been a few situations where Taunt would've been extremely helpful. Perhaps Taunt >> SR could work, there's too many spinners now that Rotom-A isn't Ghost anymore, sometimes I don't bother with SR. Magic Bounce is great imo but Deoxys S is just more reliable since it has that insane speed plus a little more bulky.

Rotom-W is certainly interesting but I lose that Steel-resist which is quite important...hmmm. Thanks for the input.
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Old July 1st, 2011 (05:02 AM).
Vrai
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Bulky SD Gliscor could indeed work >>> Magnezone. It sets up on all of the other Pokemon you mentioned (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Jirachi) and indeed provides a great check to Sand abusers.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt

edit: Rotom-W is also a fair idea to consider. You could also try using it in the Choice Scarfer role, too - to catch rain abusers like Thundurus and Tornadus.
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Old July 1st, 2011 (07:22 AM).
mystletainn
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All Rotom formes besides the Fridge one have a Steel-resist so you wouldn't be losing it exactly. Just wanted to throw that out there. Nice to see you back Pokedra. :)
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Old July 1st, 2011 (11:37 AM).
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.Aero
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Well adding on to what Karp said bout Magic Bounce Espeon, it's basically essential to a SmashPass team. Here's the situation:

You send in Gorebyss after setting up screens, and upon the opponent seeing Gorebyss, then send in their phazer (say, Latias). Now you can certainly Ice Beam it, but that only 2HKOs Max HP Latias before it Roars you out and Recovers. Just in those couple turns, you lost your White Herb, you've wasted 2 turns of your reflect/light screen combo, etc.

So, let's look at the situation as if you had Espeon with Magic Bounce: You send in Gorebyss, they send in Latias as you Shell Smash. Baton Pass to Espeon (who also carries Baton Pass) and the roar is reflected back at Latias, pushing it out. After that, you pass to something fast and demolish the opponent's team. :x This is from personal experience, and knowing what makes SmashPass so broken.

I ran a similar team kinda in which I used Espeon as a lead, Deo-S as a backup for screens and SR if needed (which it usually wasn't), Gorebyss for the SmashPass, and Haxorus for the receiver. Haxorus is an excellent receiver because his Mold Breaker ability means EQ and Outrage are only walled by Skarmory (who you would assume could phaze you out). But throw Swords Dance on the set along with Taunt, and Skarm doesn't look like much. A +4 Outrage will 2HKO a Skarm, and OHKO in some cases if it has already taken prior damage. Taunting it will prevent you from being phazed too.

I'm rambling, but yeah. It's difficult to see weaknesses in SmashPass teams because they utilize an essentially free +2 to speed and the attack of your choice.

I just want to stick with the suggestion that Espeon in essential. Consider replacing Magnezone perhaps with it, moving Espeon to the lead position, and then putting Deo-S as backup (somewhat like my team). The fact that I only mentioned 4 pokemon on my smashpass team should say something. ;] (EDIT: I realize that's a lot of psychic types on one team, but Pursuit isn't nearly as common as it once was. Basically the only thing you have to look out for is Crunch on TTar, and sometimes Scrafty).
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Old July 3rd, 2011 (12:54 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Vrai:
Bulky SD Gliscor could indeed work >>> Magnezone. It sets up on all of the other Pokemon you mentioned (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Jirachi) and indeed provides a great check to Sand abusers.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt

edit: Rotom-W is also a fair idea to consider. You could also try using it in the Choice Scarfer role, too - to catch rain abusers like Thundurus and Tornadus.
Yeah I convinced, I'll give this a try over Magnezone and see how it goes.

Quote originally posted by Luke:
All Rotom formes besides the Fridge one have a Steel-resist so you wouldn't be losing it exactly. Just wanted to throw that out there. Nice to see you back Pokedra.
Thanks Luke

Just to let you know...you still terrify me ;D
Quote originally posted by .Aero:
Well adding on to what Karp said bout Magic Bounce Espeon, it's basically essential to a SmashPass team. Here's the situation:

You send in Gorebyss after setting up screens, and upon the opponent seeing Gorebyss, then send in their phazer (say, Latias). Now you can certainly Ice Beam it, but that only 2HKOs Max HP Latias before it Roars you out and Recovers. Just in those couple turns, you lost your White Herb, you've wasted 2 turns of your reflect/light screen combo, etc.

So, let's look at the situation as if you had Espeon with Magic Bounce: You send in Gorebyss, they send in Latias as you Shell Smash. Baton Pass to Espeon (who also carries Baton Pass) and the roar is reflected back at Latias, pushing it out. After that, you pass to something fast and demolish the opponent's team. :x This is from personal experience, and knowing what makes SmashPass so broken.

I ran a similar team kinda in which I used Espeon as a lead, Deo-S as a backup for screens and SR if needed (which it usually wasn't), Gorebyss for the SmashPass, and Haxorus for the receiver. Haxorus is an excellent receiver because his Mold Breaker ability means EQ and Outrage are only walled by Skarmory (who you would assume could phaze you out). But throw Swords Dance on the set along with Taunt, and Skarm doesn't look like much. A +4 Outrage will 2HKO a Skarm, and OHKO in some cases if it has already taken prior damage. Taunting it will prevent you from being phazed too.

I'm rambling, but yeah. It's difficult to see weaknesses in SmashPass teams because they utilize an essentially free +2 to speed and the attack of your choice.

I just want to stick with the suggestion that Espeon in essential. Consider replacing Magnezone perhaps with it, moving Espeon to the lead position, and then putting Deo-S as backup (somewhat like my team). The fact that I only mentioned 4 pokemon on my smashpass team should say something. ;] (EDIT: I realize that's a lot of psychic types on one team, but Pursuit isn't nearly as common as it once was. Basically the only thing you have to look out for is Crunch on TTar, and sometimes Scrafty).
Hmm I know Pursuit is less common but I loathe to have two Psychics on one team, I'll actually try Espeon over Deoxys and see how it goes. Seems to have become a staple of SS teams.
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