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  #1    
Old July 24th, 2011, 12:51 PM
Dagzar's Avatar
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The title explains my question. Everyone has something that immediately turns them off a story or at least makes them mentally groan. Whether it’s something as specific as certain overused starters or just bad writing, it’s enough for them to press the backspace button.

For me, I hate journey fics that don’t have an ounce of originality. Pretty much all of them start off the same: main characters goes to professor’s lab, gets Pokemon, meets obvious rival and / or love interest, then proceeds to have a cookie-cutter journey in the region of their choice. Some try to at least make an effort by having a spooky prologue, but then just go back to the cookie-cutter stuff in chapter one. The Pokemon world has so much potential and they waste their time writing something like that? It just boggles my mind.
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  #2    
Old July 24th, 2011, 01:19 PM
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For me, I hate journey fics that don’t have an ounce of originality. Pretty much all of them start off the same: main characters goes to professor’s lab, gets Pokemon, meets obvious rival and / or love interest, then proceeds to have a cookie-cutter journey in the region of their choice. Some try to at least make an effort by having a spooky prologue, but then just go back to the cookie-cutter stuff in chapter one. The Pokemon world has so much potential and they waste their time writing something like that? It just boggles my mind.

I agree with the bold greatly, which is why I've shied away from making those types of fics. I believe the journey genre of Pokemon fan fiction is a bit boring and bland now which is why I stopped writing those. It's like playing the game without being able to actual play it.
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  #3    
Old July 24th, 2011, 01:50 PM
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If we're talking about just plots (because formatting can also make me hit the back button right away... which I'll get into in a second), then I'd like to expand what's already been said to a lot of things in general. If you have to say that your fic is based on [something else in fandom], then I hit the back button. It's not just cookie-cutter journey fics, either. History fics, rebirth fics, and creepypasta tend to be notorious for this. Dark fics sometimes too. Generally anything trendy on a writing community, really. No, saying, "OMG I LOVED THIS STORY SO I'LL DO SOMETHING LIKE IT TOO" is not telling me that your story will be amazing too. It's telling me that A) you're only capable of copying someone else's work and that B) you're one of the annoying, squeeing fankids in this fandom. The kind who flail in one-liner reviews to what's actually a mediocre fic.

But of course, I don't generally judge a book by its cover, and just because someone wrote a journey fic or a history fic doesn't necessarily mean that it's terrible. Sure, there's a decent probability that it's a dry and trite crapfest, but unless you're stupid enough to go "OMG THERE'S THIS OTHER FIC THAT'S AMAZING, AND THIS WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME," I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

However, what really makes me jump for the back button is crappy formatting. Yes, cover and book, but there's a reason for that. If you don't format your story correctly, use all kinds of font colors besides the one that's default for my current skin, violate half the basic grammatical rules of the English language, and generally go out of your way to make your story unreadable for certain people due to no other reason but ~*~artistic purposes~*~, I'd like for you to know that this kind of behavior literally gives me a headache, and when I have a headache, I start punting kittens. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that you hate kittens, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Beyond that, things that will make me not read your fic (but are not entirely part of the story):

1. Any amount of begging for reviews, particularly in author's notes. If you start a chapter saying, "I'm sure no one reads this," you can guarantee that I no longer will.

2. Shippy fics that in some way involve your OC. These OCs are most likely Mary Sues, particularly if they're actually in a pairing with your favorite character. Luckily, besides dA, these haven't been popular in this fandom for a long time. It was hilarious back before RSE came out, though. And by hilarious, I mean annoying. You'll still get 'em from time to time (particularly on dA and sometimes here), so... yeah.

3. Certain genres. High school AUs are usually written by people who actually don't know what high school is like, so they tend to be rather ridiculous. Rebirth fic I never liked due to the over-the-top angst of a lot of them. Anything that has over-the-top angst, including a lot of shippy fics involving Paul for some reason. Dark fic that goes over-the-top with the fact that it's dark. (Pokemon MASTER is at least hilarious. Anything else that tries to be ultraviolent and adult just looks like it's trying too hard.) Parodies that try to emulate badfic (for the "you're trying too hard" factor).

Yes, I know that these points are rather vague, but if I tried to tell you all the things that were wrong with those genres or those elements besides the "OMG I'M DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING" factor (and the obvious in the case of the first point), this post would be pages upon pages long.

And it's pretty bitter as it is, so... yeah.
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  #4    
Old July 24th, 2011, 02:15 PM
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"OMG I'M DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING"

^ This for sure. I remember when I was writing PSM: DP, I was getting a TON of PMs from authors who told me they wanted to do a fan-fiction that was formatted similar to mines. Flattering, but it was kind of annoying at the lack of originality. Which is one thing I hate in a fic is lack of originality.
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  #5    
Old July 24th, 2011, 02:26 PM
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While I haven't gotten anyone asking to create a fanfic similar to mind, I've definitely seen the bandwagon effect in action concerning the 'human reborn as a Pokemon' sub-genre over on fanfiction dot net. It was inspired by A Little Night Music (which I never read and I'm not sure that's the correct title) and it created a rockslide of fanfics that I avoided like the plague. The whole genre never really interested me and it just seemed far-fetched, no matter the reasons.
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  #6    
Old July 24th, 2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
High school AUs are usually written by people who actually don't know what high school is like, so they tend to be rather ridiculous.
Which is quite ironic considering these types of fics are written by teenagers who probably have some form of secondary education, and you can guess that they're really just copying Anime Highschool Dramas rather than their own experiences. :/

That said, I generally avoid chosen-one fics because that usually entails a journey of sorts, another thing which is done badly and frequently abandoned. Hell, a lot of journey fics barely make it past the first chapter. On the subject of chosen-one fics, a lot of newbie writers never actually give a reason as to why this person is chosen. Otherwise, it's a weak reason like a prophecy or an heir or something, nothing original, and the character never (or barely) protests when it comes to this kind of thing. I have nothing against these kinds of fics personally, but the majority of newbie writers to the fandom pretty much turn me off these kinds of stories.
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  #7    
Old July 24th, 2011, 03:01 PM
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Ah, chosen one fics. I had completely forgotten about those. While they, at least, have a bit more originality than regular journey fics, I always get exasperated by the constant hammering of 'this character is super-special, and of course the world bends over backwards for them, didn't you know they were the chosen one?' Not to mention they almost always have very human-acting talking Pokemon that only they can hear.

And don't get me started about prophecies. Why can't main characters be normal people on a journey that just happens to get in over their head? Why do they need to be a chosen one predicted by a very ancient prophecy? It's boring.
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  #8    
Old July 24th, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagzar View Post
While I haven't gotten anyone asking to create a fanfic similar to mind, I've definitely seen the bandwagon effect in action concerning the 'human reborn as a Pokemon' sub-genre over on fanfiction dot net. It was inspired by A Little Night Music (which I never read and I'm not sure that's the correct title) and it created a rockslide of fanfics that I avoided like the plague.
You're not missing much. I read the first few chapters. The main character annoyed the crap out of me, and it was a bucket of stereotypical angst wherein an emo teenager killed herself and became the main character. Once that happened, I tried to stick with it to see if any of it would wash the nasty taste out of my mouth over how it treated the subject of suicide.

Nothing did.

Hit the back button, got up, and had to walk off the feeling of wanting to punch something hard.

The other rebirth fics that were spawned from that one aren't that much better, in part because they suffer from the same problem as high school AUs: the people writing them don't actually know what it's like to suffer from psychological problems. Either that, or they don't really know how to describe bullying, so they go over-the-top with the angst. (Or even better, have people off themselves in ways that clearly show how little they actually know about basic biology.) And what really pisses me off about the rebirth genre is that people still ate/eat it up. But then again, people in fandom love angst, so I guess I'm not entirely surprised.

Also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizan de la Plume Kuro
Which is quite ironic considering these types of fics are written by teenagers who probably have some form of secondary education, and you can guess that they're really just copying Anime Highschool Dramas rather than their own experiences. :/
Weeeellll, more like they're copying off Glee or High School Musical or another American high school drama. Which gets hilarious because a lot of these kids also try to set their fics in Japan without realizing that Japanese high school is nothing like American high school.

But either way, yeah, it's really mind-boggling for that exact reason. I mean, really? Rhetorical question time! Do the things that happen in your fics actually happen to you in school, kids?
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  #9    
Old July 24th, 2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
And what really pisses me off about the rebirth genre is that people still ate/eat it up. But then again, people in fandom love angst, so I guess I'm not entirely surprised.
This is what also kind of ticks me off too, and that’s definitely not limited to the ‘rebirth’ sub-genre. I know everyone’s tastes are different, but it bothers me that angst and stereotypical comedy / journey stuff is so popular. I look at review counts on FF dot net and stories with those types of premises are huge, while other stories, one’s that are interesting and have excellent writing quality, are pretty much ignored. This is especially obvious in smaller fandoms, like Pokemon.

Maybe it has something to do with age because I remember loving angst fics back in the day, but it annoys me that people can put so little effort in their stories and still get so much attention.

… Meh, maybe it’s just FF dot net that has that problem. PC doesn’t have enough activity to judge and I don’t surf Serebii.
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  #10    
Old July 24th, 2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagzar View Post
This is what also kind of ticks me off too, and that’s definitely not limited to the ‘rebirth’ sub-genre. I know everyone’s tastes are different, but it bothers me that angst and stereotypical comedy / journey stuff is so popular. I look at review counts on FF dot net and stories with those types of premises are huge, while other stories, one’s that are interesting and have excellent writing quality, are pretty much ignored. This is especially obvious in smaller fandoms, like Pokemon.
Strangely, review count doesn't particularly bother me. In fact, it amuses the crap out of me. I once slapped together one of those kinds of tournament fics where people can send in profiles for their character to be included in the story. Admittedly, I actually hate everything about what I was going to do with it and have no desire to continue it, but it's gotten more reviews than anything else I've ever written. That fact -- the fact that I verified for myself that on FFNet, bandwagon fic > anything else -- is the only reason why I haven't deleted that pile of crap. It's pretty hilarious, in my opinion.

It's really more about the content. Actual clinical depression is nothing to joke about, and from first-hand experience, I can tell you that being bullied and experiencing psychological abuse isn't glamorous either. It always pisses me off when people glorify it, but it really pisses me off when other twerps say that any fic that does qualifies as good writing. Sorry but no. I can't speak for anyone who has depression, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to see inaccurate, Hollywood-style depictions of what they're going through. As for bullying and abuse, it's hard to say why depictions of that piss me off without getting too personal, but all I can say is even if you're whisked away to a fantasy world full of the things that keep you from killing yourself, even if you had the chance to have your own starter and go off on a journey through the world of your daydreams, even if you had the chance to wake up as a Pokémon, even if you could shrug off your life right now and skip off into Happy Fun Candy Land, you will still be ****ed up in the head. And if you don't get that, then you shouldn't be writing a character who's actually suffered psychological issues. I'm sorry to put it that way, but abuse, trauma, psychological disorders -- things are just not Happy Fun Candy Land for you if you actually suffer or have suffered through these things. You will not be able to form the same kinds of relationships with other people as normal kids. And if you glorify that by creating characters who suffer through that without doing any kind of research or at least asking someone with experience (i.e., by creating a character who's stereotypically emo), you are going to create a character who's fake and, frankly, offensive to those of us who actually have problems.

And if you encourage that crap by thinking it's awesome writing just because the character is so ~*~dramatic~*~ and has ~*~suffered~*~, no. Just... no.

Granted, I should be one to talk because, yeah, back in the day, I thought drama = good writing too. It's a teenager thing. But now, after having graduated high school and after looking back and realizing a lot of things that were going on (and then cutting ties with God knows how many bits of baggage... and by that I mean people who treated me like crap), it just gets me angry to read something that fake and shallow and hear that there's a lot of people who think it's great. (The author's attitude isn't that awesome, either, which is why I would never, ever leave a review to that story. Not to mention some of his groupies are pretty much average BNF fare -- psycho.) And while A Little Night Music tends to tread thin ice when it comes to fake and shallow angst, it's really the spin-offs that deserve this much of a verbal beating for their depictions of abuse.

And that turned out way more personal than a lot of you probably wanted to see, but the point is... yeah. Stereotypical angst (with "OMG MY FAMILY IS POOR NO ONE LIKES ME EXCEPT MAYBE ONE PERSON MY LIFE SUUUUCKS") is not cool in my books. Sorry.

Edit: Aaaaand I'd like to apologize for basically raging all over this post and implying that people can't write whatever they merry well please. In fact, if that's your cuppa, fine. It's just that if the subject isn't treated seriously instead of "I'm including this because it's ~*~edgy~*~/~*~dramatic~*~/the kind of thing that makes my fic even cooler," I'm more likely to hit the back button and also wish for a button that will backhand you if pressed.

Quote:
… Meh, maybe it’s just FF dot net that has that problem. PC doesn’t have enough activity to judge and I don’t surf Serebii.
Serebii's a little iffy. It's not so much about the genres there as it is about the authors. If you're a pretty big-name author, you're more likely to be reviewed than someone who's just coming in. Sort of logical in terms of a writing community, actually. For example, the author Ysavvryl gets a lot of reviews on virtue of the fact that she's Ysavvryl (not that I'm dissing her or anything, although I couldn't quite get into her Pokédex One-Shots as much as I would have liked), whereas authors like Cutlerine might get one or two fans posting a review each chapter. But again, it makes sense for it to work that way because it's a lot like buying books written by a certain author. Whereas sticking with a particular genre only guarantees that you'll be getting certain elements, sticking with a particular author guarantees that you'll be seeing consistent quality. As in, you might read a hundred journey fics, and only a handful of them would be good. Meanwhile, if you read six fics by an author you think is good, they'll most likely all be pretty good to you. So, yeah, I get them.

As for angsty bandwagon fic, you don't really see too much of it. There's Fad by [Imaginative] and New Game by our very own Misheard Whisper (both of which of course pulled in more reviews for a one-shot than any other I've seen so far -- the former apparently on the virtue of playing up the nostalgic factor), but if anything, the only kind of bandwagon fic you might see there is journey fic. But I can't blame them for that because, honestly, it wouldn't be a Pokémon forum if there wasn't an overabundance of journey fic at all. Beyond that, you might have people attempting to copy off Ysavvryl's idea of creating a short story for every Pokémon in a kind of literary Pokédex, and I think someone once tried to rip-off Missingno Master's utter brand of ridiculousness brand of utter ridiculousness, but beyond that, they at least have some form of decency.

deviantART, on the other hand... is deviantART. Also, don't get me started on LiveJournal. (I'm pretty sure no one writes about anything besides sex and angst on that site. And I don't mean sex or angst. I mean sex and angst.)
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Last edited by JX Valentine; July 24th, 2011 at 06:32 PM.
  #11    
Old July 24th, 2011, 06:41 PM
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I find that people in this day and age tend to glorify suicide, cutting, and prostitution. When I was in ninth grade, my English class got an assignment to write a short story and we would share our progress throughout the two months we worked on it. While my story was about a group of college girls summoning a demon, I was kind of weirded out that all the other stories were about prostitution and suicide. Of the two stories I looked at, one was about a prostitute who cuts and who is pinning for a prince, who happens to fall in love at first sight with her, and the other was about an emo teen who watches someone kill themselves in a bathroom then converts another girl who’s about to commit suicide into a vegetarian then starts dating her… I think, it’s been a long time since ninth grade.

Either way, that type of stuff is really popular with the younger crowd. Luckily, it’s really just a phase and as those people grow up, they will understand how bad those topics really are and stop using them.

Quote:
deviantART, on the other hand... is deviantART. Also, don't get me started on LiveJournal. (I'm pretty sure no one writes about anything besides sex and angst on that site. And I don't mean sex or angst. I mean sex and angst.)
I don’t know why people even post stories on DeviantART, there are really better places to post stories. <_<

I’ve always tried to get into LiveJournal fanfiction, but I never like the format of it. And now that I think about, most of the fics on there are of sex and angst. I don’t know why I’ve never noticed but I can’t recall ever reading a fic on there that isn’t associated with sex. Maybe it’s because LiveJournal caters to an older audience?

Quote:
Edit: Aaaaand I'd like to apologize for basically raging all over this post and implying that people can't write whatever they merry well please. In fact, if that's your cuppa, fine. It's just that if the subject isn't treated seriously instead of "I'm including this because it's ~*~edgy~*~/~*~dramatic~*~/the kind of thing that makes my fic even cooler," I'm more likely to hit the back button and also wish for a button that will backhand you if pressed.
It’s fine, Jax, everyone has their Berserk Button (I will save you hours of your life and not link to TVTropes). I can get really rant-y on certain subjects too, especially when they’re related to character bashing and stuff like that.
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  #12    
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:05 PM
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Some things turn me off about fanfiction

1. Yaoi/yuri. It's severally overrated and it's stupid that two canon characters who are the same sex can't be friends without the fandom paring them as a romantic couple. Also same with OC's. I find that most people pair two people of the same sex together to say "LOOK IM NOT A GAYE HATUR!11" or just to be trendy. After being in the Sonic fandom and seing the amount of yaoi/yuri fics on FF.net, it's not original. It's annoying. In fact, there was only one good yaoi fic I've read and it was on DA of all places. I liked it because it seemed natural and not forced. And the characters were themselves.

2. Adventure or action fics that have more romance than actual action. I hate when people do this and not alot do this but I wanted to point this out. I don't mind if in the story, two characters are a couple, but when the whole story is focused on their relationship when it's really about something adventure related, it makes me loose sight of what the plot is about. Harry Potter does this nowadays.

3. Fics that involve cannon characters dying or getting killed. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Why is it so trendy is beyond me. What puts the icing on the cake is that these canon characters get killed by the writer's OCs :=/

4. Shipping fiction that is canon character/OC. Those turn boring quickly because the character ends up being a mary sue.

Last but not least, fanfiction with lemon scenes that are just distasteful. What I mean is that, if you must write a lemon/lime scene, don't do it like if you were trying to show off. Inshort, you don't work in the porn industry, so don't use terms you hear in their movies. Instead of using the F word, use fornication. It's more professional. Use blanket terms that are professional.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Gothitelle, a general tip: please don’t post in bright pink text; just use the default one that is available to you. Since I’m using the Leafeon / Glaceon layout, the pink is really blinding.

And I agree with a lot of what you put, especially number two. Romance is something that has never interested me and I don’t like it when the story really concentrates on it to the detriment of the plot. Of course, I do expect romance to happen in fanfiction because no one can seem to not keep it out of their stories, but I like it low-key. Actually, this is the problem with most slash fics, I find. The stories all seem to focus heavily on the romance and there never seems to be any plot beyond it. The several slash fanfics I enjoy either keep the romance low-key or have it as just another aspect of a friendly relationship.

Off-topic question: is anyone finding the Remove Text Formatting button to be acting weirdly? It won't change my text into the default.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Instead of using the F word, use fornication. It's more professional. Use blanket terms that are professional.
But then you run the risk of being too technical in your writing. There's a loss of the emotions in the fic if the writer uses "fornication" versus "having sex" or "making love" or whatever other casual phrase one can use. Fornication makes me think of two scientists studying the breeding habits of animals, which isn't something that should be crossing my mind when two (or more!) characters are having an emotional scene.

Plus, speaking of emotions, it might be better to have more harsh-sounding language being used to describe dub-con or non-con. Getting the characters' emotions out there in the writing. If the writing is harsh and gritty, then the reader feels more of the harsh and gritty.

And really, a writer shouldn't be worried about not offending people with their word choices. A writer is showing the truth about their subject, and saying that characters had a good **** is better than two people came together and fornicated (which makes me giggle like the twelve-year-old I am). And also, "fornicated" tends to mean premarital sex, which doesn't hold true for all couples.

Just no "magic yogurt-spewing meat rod" please. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed.

My avatar makes every topic more hilarious.

Quote:
it's stupid that two canon characters who are the same sex can't be friends without the fandom paring them as a romantic couple.
Or opposite-sexed friends, which also happens in real life. Fandom just ships everyone and everything.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 08:24 PM
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Sorry about the signature color. Oh and another thing I missed.

Fakemon. They are so overpowered... don't get me started. Especially ones who are "Pikachu's long lost brother/son/uncle/etc"
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Old July 24th, 2011, 09:08 PM
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While there's nothing inherently wrong with Fakemon - in my opinion, at least - I tend to not bother reading fakemon fics. Why? Well, I guess I just feel that they're a bit unnecessary. Unless it's actually a major plot point (like, say, an Absol that's been forced to 'evolve' into a new Pokemon by genetic manipulation/magic/whatever), my logic is . . . why not just use the ones Nintendo has supplied? There are certainly no shortage of them. And in my case, the Pokemon themselves are often not the focus of the story, so I don't see any particular need to make up more. People wanting to create their own Pokemon . . . while I appreciate the creative impulse, and it can be effective when done well, I just can't get my head around the necessity. Normally, people create new characters and things to fill holes in canon - inadequately explored areas. Pokemon - the creatures themselves - certainly do not fall into that category. There are plenty of holes within the Pokemon themselves, which, if anything, makes it easier to use them to your own ends. For most Pokemon, all we have to go on is a few brief Pokedex entries. There is so much one can do with that without resorting to making up your own entirely new one.

As for my own pet peeves . . . hmm. I won't say journeyfics, for while it is true that the vast majority of them are terribly poorly written and often abandoned at the first hurdle, I have seen some good ones around. The same is true for any genre, I suppose, but I've come to automatically gloss over the slushpile without even noticing it's there, so that's pretty much dulled me to them.

I will say Pokemorphs. It's not like half-Pokemon, half-human hybrids squick me or anything (in fact, I saw a very attractive Furret gijinka on dA just the other day - if anyone takes the preceding out of context, I will kill you). It's just that more often than not, they are blatant excuses for self-insert fics. People want to be Pokemon, but they don't want to actually have to go through the effort of thinking how they would act and live if they were actually a Pokemon. So they go halfway - give their character a tail and some ears, so that they're 'almost' Pokemon. They don't need to worry about adapting to suddenly being a lot bigger/smaller, or worry about what they're going to eat, or about getting captured by a Trainer. They can still talk, communicate and generally live life as they would as a human. Yet they have the superhuman senses or whatever that come with being half-Eevee or whatever. In other words, they get all of the good and none of the bad.

I'll also mention lemons here, but not in the way you might think. I actually like to read horrible out-of-character lemons (as long as the writing quality itself is passable) because they make me laugh so hard. Not a fan of yaoi, but that's just a personal preference as opposed to any ingrained hatred of yaoi writers or anything.

I will agree with Jax on angst and depression here, sososo much. (i see your mention of new game there what are you up to :p) It's actually just disgusting to see people - essentially - make light of something that is a legitimate, crippling and debilitating problem for a large percentage of the human population. People think they understand depression when they don't, and I think that's the biggest problem. 'My parents won't let me go out with my friends! Welp, better slit my wrists. I got a bad mark on my maths test and an old lady at the bus snapped at me because I didn't give up my seat. Oh well, off the bridge we go.' It's just a bit sickening. Not simply because of how lightly they treat it, but because they are simply proudly flaunting their ignorance for the world to see.

I, too, have been bullied for a good part of my life. Because I could do things other people couldn't, and because I couldn't do things other people could. Never physically - nobody ever tried to beat me up or anything - but with words, with actions and exclusions. It was really bad at several points throughout my childhood, but each time I dealt with it, or it was dealt with for me. In hindsight, I came close to the edge of that slippery slope down to genuine depression a few times. I remember one time, actually - just a little over two years ago. I was in Dad's car on the way to school and I literally broke down in tears because I couldn't go back to school and face another day with the jokers that made my life hell at that point. Dad turned around and took me home right then, and for that I'll be eternally grateful, because I honestly think that making me go to school that day would have pushed me over the edge. Sure, I wouldn't have gone into the toilets at lunch and started cutting, but that day easily could have been the point of no return. I don't like to think where I'd be even to this day. In fact, I don't think about it. This is the first time I've told anybody, too . . . which, in and of itself, is a kind of evidence that I've moved on. But let's just say that I could be a very different person today if one or more events in my life had gone a slightly different way. I wouldn't want people to pervert how serious that is in fiction.

Also, AAML. Yuck. For some reason, I really don't like the pairing. I have read - I think - one AAML fic that I liked. Can't remember the name - just some little vanilla fluffy thing. It was cute and it made sense with the characters' personalities, which brings me to the main point - romance. This is definitely a personal preference, but I'm just not so hot on reading romance fics. Mostly because, like the depression thing, many writers have no bloody clue what they're talking about. 'Oh, Ash! I'm so sorry I've been such a b**** to you all this time! Let's make love!' And Ash is like '... sure, why not?' But I won't get into this too far, for fear of starting to rant. Or, y'know, getting into a flame war.

I think I've talked quite enough for now, much of it about me and my personal problems. Sorry about that. I'll leave the wall-of-texting up to Jax and Shri- ...

Where did that guy even go? o_O
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  #17    
Old July 24th, 2011, 09:09 PM
icomeanon6's Avatar
icomeanon6
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I think the single thing that turns me off a story the most is when the main character comes across to me as too much of a jerk without many redeeming features, especially when the author doesn't seem to view the character that way. Thankfully, I haven't observed this too much in fanfiction. The biggest examples I can think of are actually Light from Death Note and Lelouch from Code Geass. They were just so slimy/arrogant/sometimes-outright-evil that in both cases I stopped watching after the first few episodes in disgust, and only watched the whole things after much coaxing from my friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astinus
A writer is showing the truth about their subject, and saying that characters had a good **** is better than two people came together and fornicated (which makes me giggle like the twelve-year-old I am). And also, "fornicated" tends to mean premarital sex, which doesn't hold true for all couples.
I'm pretty sure it exclusively means pre/extramarital sex. In my experience the term is mostly used in the context of criticizing or condemning the particular act that it refers to, unless it's being used ironically. So yes, the notion of a romance author using "fornicate" as a simple replacement for other words that mean "have sex" makes me giggle like a twelve-year-old as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll Romance Author (probably)
"Oh! Oh, yes! Oh Nigel, fornicate me!"
EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misheard Whisper
I'll leave the wall-of-texting up to Jax and Shri- ...

Where did that guy even go? o_O
Shrike has indeed been gone for a while (longer than I have, even. yikes). Real shame, I was hoping to see him among the SWC participants this year. But that's the nature of forums, I've found. Some people's long term attention spans are more easily side-tracked than others'.
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Last edited by icomeanon6; July 24th, 2011 at 09:23 PM.
  #18    
Old July 24th, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagzar View Post
I find that people in this day and age tend to glorify suicide, cutting, and prostitution.
Agreed, which is really rather stupid because none of those things are Happy Fun Candy Land. Seriously, while I tend to talk about my experiences with bullying and abuse with my friends for support (and because I'm only now this close to getting over it and actually feeling ready to participate in society), I'm not proud of it, and if anything, I really wish I could have actually done something to stop it. There wasn't anything dramatic about it; I didn't even realize what was going on until I stopped and thought about what was making me so miserable back then. Moreover, I was in a situation where I had people there to help me, but no one knew what was going on because I just couldn't tell them. So, to see characters get bullied and pushed around with teachers just standing by and doing absolutely nothing, with parents taking all the wrong routes (usually in fic abusing them even more), and with the only solution being just to shrug off that life and go have fun in another... yeah, that last bit's the real fun bit because it's practically telling people who actually lived through that that their misery is only good for entertainment purposes and that the only way out is basically to stop being who they are. Or even better, to kill themselves.

Actually, come to think of it, that's another reason why I can't stand rebirth fics. Even if they don't mean it, they tend to imply that it's a good idea to kill yourself. I mean, you've got characters who do that, and then they're rewarded by having awesome adventures. Sure, it might not be what they wanted for an afterlife, but... yeah.

But you're right in saying that it's a phase, and it's probably popular among the teens because puberty really messes with a person and forces them to be a little inclined towards the overdramatic. (Or a lot, in some cases.) And wishing that publicity for the fics that glorify crap like that would just die down won't stop someone from writing another morally terrible fic full of crappy treatment of the actually depressed, so not much else to say here besides, "Yes, it makes me feel like a pile of sunshine and daisies."

Quote:
I don’t know why people even post stories on DeviantART, there are really better places to post stories. <_<
Easy praise. b)'')b If you have friends (particularly ones in high places in the dA fandom) or write about a certain character, you're guaranteed one-liner praise reviews and a ton of favorites, regardless of the actual quality of your fic. It's easier to get praise on dA than it is to get it on FFNet, actually. Reviews to begin with, on the other hand, is a bit more difficult.

Quote:
I’ve always tried to get into LiveJournal fanfiction, but I never like the format of it.
You're not missing much. There's basically the anon meme, a few comms run by Windsong (LJ fic BNF whose work is best described by TVTropes as "people talk and nothing happens"), and a few outlying comms that are practically dead. 99% of the content of LJ fic tends to be about characters acting massively OOC as they have sex and emo over life. The other 1% is written by me gen fic no one actually reads. It's in part because, as someone once told a friend of mine, the general mindset of LJ writers is that the only reason people write fanfic is to pair characters off. Which is stupid and annoying and completely wrong, but if it floats your boat, by all means, go ahead and paddle down the Mississippi. Just don't force it on me or assume I'm taking you seriously.

Quote:
Maybe it’s because LiveJournal caters to an older audience?
Most likely, yeah. Either that or teenaged girls/people who think like teenaged girls. It doesn't really help that the mindset I'd described not too long ago is a general one you'll find in pretty much every single fandom that's on LJ.

Quote:
It’s fine, Jax, everyone has their Berserk Button (I will save you hours of your life and not link to TVTropes). I can get really rant-y on certain subjects too, especially when they’re related to character bashing and stuff like that.
*high fives* Thanks for understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothitelle. View Post
Sorry about the signature color.
Yet you're still using it.

Point of clarification: When Dagzar mentioned your color, she meant the color of your posts. As in, you're right now using a bright-pink font to write, and this tends to not agree with a lot of skins. I'd like to mention for the record that I'm using Unova's Violet Masquerade, which has a light background but tiny font. As a result, yeah, it's a bit difficult to read what you have to say.

Also, the same could be said for Serebii, its green background, and your use of cyan font. Not exactly easy on the eyes there, either.

Really, it's best to just leave your fonts default to avoid forcing people to squint, but usually, I personally don't care what font you use in your posts so long as you don't use it in your fanfiction. (Except you do, so yeah, you'll probably want to think about maybe getting rid of the font color tags around all of your posts.)

Also, side note to Dagzar, but yeah, it's totally not working for me, either. IDK. IDEK.

Quote:
Fakemon. They are so overpowered... don't get me started. Especially ones who are "Pikachu's long lost brother/son/uncle/etc"
First off, point of note: The term "fakemon" refers to fan-created Pokémon. They're not canon Pokémon like Pikachu only as original characters. They're complete species.

Second, I'm pretty sure no one writes about Pikachu with a long-lost brother/son/uncle/whatever. Pikachu generally doesn't get Stu family members associated with it. (Ash, on the other hand...) Generally, fakemon are Pokémon completely separate from existing species, so fakemon authors don't really do things like say, "THIS IS FLAMECHU, PIKACHU'S SECOND COUSIN."

Third, not all fakemon are overpowered. Quite a lot of them are actually parts of fan-created regions, so many fakemon are more or less pretty much like normal Pokémon. Sure, there's also a number of fakemon authors who create their own legendaries and do ridiculous things, but for the most part, yes, they're generally made for journey fics that take place in new regions.

The main weakness fakemon fics suffer is the fact that not a lot of thought is put into them for the most part. It takes a lot of effort to come up with your own species. You need to know not only how to describe them but also what the limits of its powers are, what moves it can use, what kinds of habitats it's used to, and most importantly, why you can't just use a canon Pokémon instead. For example, I once read a fanfic where the main character's starter was a fire-typed horse that was basically exactly like Ponyta except for the name. (Same abilities, same moves, everything.) I called the author out on it, and no matter what he tried, he couldn't find a suitable explanation to tell me why he couldn't simply replace it with a Ponyta. Point is, just because you create a Pokémon doesn't necessarily mean you should use it.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it because it's powerful, and in fact, a lot of pretty cool fic revolves around fakemon in some capacity or another. (Lost Evolution, for example. The Quest for the Legends, for another. Ultimatum for an even better one.) And in my opinion, if done right and if you happen to be awesome at world-building, I personally think it's a great way to show off your creativity and attention to detail. But in order to pull it off, yes, you'll have to put a lot of thought into what you're doing, which a lot of people (especially on FFNet) unfortunately don't.

Edit: Ninja'd! Man, we're starting to get awesome again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misheard Whisper
(i see your mention of new game there what are you up to :p)
Just going :( at the number of people who probably are only like, "OMG NOSTALGIA LET'S GET ON THE BUS AND BE ALL NOSTALGIC" instead of "OMG LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR FIC." Oh, half of Imaginative's reviewers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icomeanon6
"Oh! Oh, yes! Oh Nigel, fornicate me!"
I thought I told you to stop listening in on my nightly escapades. >:| And whatever my girlfriend calls me is none of your business.
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  #19    
Old July 24th, 2011, 09:29 PM
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I'll put my input on this topic very soon, I promise!
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  #20    
Old July 24th, 2011, 09:47 PM
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Oh god, look at all the replies! Must… reply… to… everyone… D:

I don’t have an opinion on fakemon, though I agree with Misheard Whisper that it’s probably better to just use a regular Pokemon most of the time. I suppose you need fakemon if you’ve created an original region, but I tend to stay away from that type of stuff. I’d rather just read the canon regions.

I don’t mind lemons either because I just skip over those unless I’m really interested in reading them.

On the subject of missing people, I haven’t seen Solovino around either. He hasn’t come on since October 2010 and I hope he’s okay. <_<
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  #21    
Old July 24th, 2011, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Edit: Ninja'd! Man, we're starting to get awesome again!
At the risk of jinxing it, I think you might be right. TK's back, Dagzar's back, you're posting a bit, I never really left am back too, and a few of these interesting threads are starting to pop up here and there. Maybe we're seeing a resurgence?

*derails thread*
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  #22    
Old July 25th, 2011, 08:05 AM
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Journey Fics

I tend to read a lot of Journey fics in the beginning just to see how they will pan out for the first few chapters. As stated before, they tend to be cookie cutter and if I lose my interest, I doubt I will read anything else on that fic again. More times than not, Journey fics aren't completed, nor are they even out of the first few chapters (the protagonists journey 'ends' after the first gym, probably).

However, if someone is capable of delivering an original plot along the journey, I may be interested in taking a look at it. I personally was a big fan of journeying fics, but that well ran dry for me. When I was making PSM: DP, I'll admit, I was pretty much using the plot of the Pokemon Diamond and Pearl game and just adding different kinds of twists and personalities along the way to make it entertaining. The same could be said for my fic (that didn't last too long) Black & White.

Romance Driven Fics

Bleh. I'm not a huge fan of obvious romance and shipping in fan fics if that's the main thing in it anyway. However, I do like slow build up relationships in a story. As stated earlier, romance probably can't be avoided whether it's straight or slash, but authors have to learn that almost nobody wants to read a Pokemon version of The Notebook. When done right, romance should be a minor subtopic in a story.

Poke-Morph/Human-turned-Pokemon Fics

I never was a fan of Mystery Dungeon nor Poke-Morphs so I have no comment on those types of fics. Just seemed a bit Digimon-ish to me, ha!

"High School" based Fics

I never understood the purpose of Pokemon High School fics, nor how they could even be written. *points to siggy* Right now I'm in the process of writing Elite Academy and I'm trying my best not to make it high school-ish. I think the main thing about High School fics is that they tend to have no plot at all and that they are almost always romance driven. Let's face it, it's almost impossible to have a plot be taken seriously for a Pokemon High School fanfic. It just won't work. Not for me personally, anyway. I've yet to see a fic of this nature done right. Then again, I don't read them.

Use of Canon Characters in Fics

I have no problem at all with authors using canon characters in their fics. The only problem I have is if you're going to use them out of their personality, don't make the changes completely drastic. For example, Lt. Surge shouldn't be wanting to hug his opponents after he loses to them and Blue shouldn't be the type of person to immediately spark a conversation with someone.

When I use canon characters in my fics, I make sure that I study exactly how they were portrayed in their different medias (For me, it's in game or in the manga. Not a big fan of the anime anymore).
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  #23    
Old July 25th, 2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
At the risk of jinxing it, I think you might be right. TK's back, Dagzar's back, you're posting a bit, I never really left am back too-
Technically, I never left either. It’s just that I’m a natural lurker and don’t post much.

Alright, time for a bit of a rant.

I’d like to talk about the bad writing technique known as character bashing. I haven’t seen it much in the Pokemon fandom, though I’m sure it’s prevalent when people write about the anime. Either way, it’s the one thing that I hate above all else. Let’s take the Harry Potter fandom as an example. I find a fic with an interesting summary, but just as I’m about to click on it I notice the summary also has written ‘Ron and Hermione Bashing! Manipulative Dumbledore!’ My eye twitches and I wonder why the writer had pissed on those character. Bandwagon, legitimate hate? Either way, no way I’m reading something as cookie cutter as that, so I move on and try to find something that actually treats all characters fairly.

Character Bashing must be one of the worst writing techniques I’ve seen and it doesn’t help that it’s so popular these days, that people don’t seem to know how bad it is. A writer’s opinion of a character should never interfere with their work. Actually, no opinion at all should. When I read a story, I want to be so pulled into a world that I forget I’m reading a story, and character bashing is a very good way to pull me out of it. I know people sometimes hate specific characters, but I’m appalled that some people think their flawed interpretation is actually how the character acts.

This can happen with OCs too when a writer doesn’t know better. They create a character, maybe a bully for the main character, and then proceed to make sure that character is constantly humiliated and taken down by the main. There are no redeeming qualities to the hated character. They’re just there to be shat upon and maybe try to fight back in a stupid, dumb way.

It’s just so annoying! I don’t want a read such a black and white story where everyone is either all good and all evil. And it drives me nuts that stories that don’t bash characters are so very rare that I have the take a shovel and go digging for them.

Arggghhhhhhh.
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  #24    
Old July 25th, 2011, 09:05 AM
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They create a character, maybe a bully for the main character, and then proceed to make sure that character is constantly humiliated and taken down by the main.

Some characters tend to have that Paul Syndrome too, where their rival is all powerful and stuff like that. Character development is a MUST for ALL characters who are appearing in multiple chapters in my opinion. What good is a rival for your main character if he or she doesn't develop as well? Is he or she not human?
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  #25    
Old July 25th, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Fics altogether annoys me. I do original stories, and one only use another person's characters if commissioned to do so.
What really turns me off is bad grammar. I've pretty much given up reading anything labeled fanfic. Especially Pokemon.
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