Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Creative Discussions > Fan Fiction and Writing > Writer's Lounge
Reload this Page What d-ya hate seeng n staries?

Notices
For all updates, view the main page.

Writer's Lounge Need advice? Want to give advice? Come on in and share ideas with your fellow writers. Just remember, all fics go in the main forum.



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #76    
Old August 5th, 2011 (12:01 PM).
Dragonite Ernston's Avatar
Dragonite Ernston
I rival Lance's.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by Bay Alexison:
DIS so much. Seriously, I love journey fics where tha stary starts off when somethng serious is happenng. Thare is one traner/journeyfic I'm thnkng of fo quite some time that will start when tha action begns.
I thnk tha dawg reason more staries don't begn n medias res like almost everybody here is suggestng is that it doesn't seem complete witout tha begnnng. It's knd of like startng a symphony n tha second movement.
  #77    
Old August 5th, 2011 (06:59 PM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
^I thnk tha real concern is whethar tha author knows where tha stary is heezeeng or not.

Plus, I do thnk that it's important ta start a journey fic wit tha Dawg character(s) gittng thair first Pokemon snce it's better ta have an orign from tha git-go. However, it shouldn't just be so straight-foward as tha Traner gittng his first Pokemon and Pokedex. Have somethng excitng happen like tha evil tebe of tha region attackng tha lab fo a reason that'll come nta play n tha future. Somethng like that. Just try and grab our nterest wit tha first chapter and convnce us that yo fic is worth readng and followng.

That anothar thng that I hate: when writers go all gatg-ho on startng a series that haven't thought out yet, resultng n major disappontments.
  #78    
Old August 5th, 2011 (07:08 PM).
bobandbill's Avatar
bobandbill
Wahahahaha!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Coast - Australia
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Send a message via AIM to bobandbill
I suppose that depends on tha stary itself tbh - some would be better not startng from tha begnnng if it's really not important ta tha stary, and othars would imo be quite fne wit tha whole git-first-Pokemon deal (although how that happens is anothar deal n itself).

I suppose a lot of stuff already said would be thngs I don't enjoy mahself... although canon-characters ben/not ben n tha stary isnt a factar fo me unless thay is missng fo no established reason (n tha cases it would mak snse ta have tham) or if thay don't feel right (thay're OOC, etc).
__________________
Gym Leader Wattson wants ta battle!
Tha cheerfully electrifyng dawg!
Wahahahaha! Good thngs come ta those who laugh!
ORAS Staff Collab 2014
  #79    
Old August 5th, 2011 (07:16 PM).
Astinus's Avatar
Astinus
Remember NovEnder
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Plus, I do thnk that it's important ta start a journey fic wit tha Dawg character(s) gittng thair first Pokemon snce it's better ta have an orign from tha git-go.
I fogit who said it, but "Start at tha begnnng". If a traner's stary begns right away wit gittng thair startng Pokemon and thay heezee out nta tha wide world, than it's fne ta start thare. But thare's always exceptions where it's better ta start tha stary where tha action's gong ta be, and just have tha "meetng tha first Pokemon" be tald through back stary.

That's why I don't like readng a lot of new traner journey fics, snce tha author feels as if thay must start wit meetng tha startng Pokemon. Than tha fic might heezee down tha path of tha slow start, where nothng happens fo several chapters as tha traner goes through tha standard battlng of tha first wild Pokemon and all that.

It's better ta skip tha generic begnnng if it's necessary ta do so. Tell tha meetng of traner and Pokemon through back stary.

Which is anothar thng I hate seeng: foced back stary or *begn flashback*
__________________
avatar
  #80    
Old August 5th, 2011 (07:18 PM).
Misheard Whisper's Avatar
Misheard Whisper
#1 Yancy fan
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Doctor Drakken's lair
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Send a message via Skype™ to Misheard Whisper
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
^I thnk tha real concern is whethar tha author knows where tha stary is heezeeng or not.

That anothar thng that I hate: when writers go all gatg-ho on startng a series that haven't thought out yet, resultng n major disappontments.
But you see, Matt, dis all depends on tha type of author. N tha NaNo community, we have terms fo two different knds of writers: tha planners and tha pantsers. Tha planners, obviously, is tha ones who plan aheezee, while tha pantsers is tha ones who wng it 'by tha seat of thair pants', so ta speak. Most thugz prefer one over tha othar, yet nobody will begrudge anothar fo usng tha opposite method. I tend ta be a pantser - heck, I've pantsed every one of mah fanfics so far (except mah upcomng one) as well as both mah NaNos. Plannng works better fo some thugz, while othars - like me - fnd that plannng aheezee takess half tha fun out of tha writng process. As long as you can stick wit it, I don't have a problem wit authors who go aheezee witout plannng. Even now - seventeen chapters n - I only have tha vaguest of ideas where Chbepion Gbee is gong. Yet I don't thnk that'll affect me as such.
__________________
  #81    
Old August 5th, 2011 (07:19 PM).
Dagzar's Avatar
Dagzar
The Dreamer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In my dreams.
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
bout tha journey fics that turn nta somethng else as it goes along thng, I don't thnk tha writers plan fo somethng like that ta happen. It doesn't matter what idea you have n tha future fo you fic, it's safe ta sez that it'll change as you go along. Maybe tha writers just fnd thair staries is focusng on somethng othar than tha badges or journey, and just decide ta takes it n that direction.
__________________
"After ben saddled wit two ten-year-old brats and ben sent out on her long overdue Pokemon journey, she can’t help but wonder… is it worth it?"
  #82    
Old August 5th, 2011 (09:11 PM).
Dragonite Ernston's Avatar
Dragonite Ernston
I rival Lance's.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Plus, I do thnk that it's important ta start a journey fic wit tha Dawg character(s) gittng thair first Pokemon snce it's better ta have an orign from tha git-go. However, it shouldn't just be so straight-foward as tha Traner gittng his first Pokemon and Pokedex.
Rachel from Generation 2021 never gits a Pokédex. It's not really standard ta git one of those, really. I fnd that tha ones that do have those tend ta use it as filler, which annoys me.

Quote orignally posted by Dagzar:
bout tha journey fics that turn nta somethng else as it goes along thng, I don't thnk tha writers plan fo somethng like that ta happen. It doesn't matter what idea you have n tha future fo you fic, it's safe ta sez that it'll change as you go along. Maybe tha writers just fnd thair staries is focusng on somethng othar than tha badges or journey, and just decide ta takes it n that direction.
Dis is true. Fo a journey fic ta stay a determned, course-bound journey fic tha whole way through would be quite borng, ta sez tha least. Even tha journey n tha canon gbees isn't quite as lnear as some thugz takes it ta be.
  #83    
Old August 6th, 2011 (11:07 AM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by Astnus:
That's why I don't like readng a lot of new traner journey fics, snce tha author feels as if thay must start wit meetng tha startng Pokemon. Than tha fic might heezee down tha path of tha slow start, where nothng happens fo several chapters as tha traner goes through tha standard battlng of tha first wild Pokemon and all that.

It's better ta skip tha generic begnnng if it's necessary ta do so. Tell tha meetng of traner and Pokemon through back stary.
Yes, but as I said befoe, you can have tha "generic" begnnng but also add on ta it. Like have tha dawg Traner(s) not only git thair first Pokemon and meet thair rivals but also have tha evil tebe of tha region featured (such as havng tham attack tha lab or somethng). Like thare's an overall plot ta tha fic and tha begnnng featurng tha Professor givng tha Traner(s) his/her Pokemon is essential ta gittng tha reader(s) hooked.

It all depends on how thugz handle it. Sometimes it can be generic and othar times it can be nnovated and creative. It's not right ta assume that some thngs is always bad when thay can be good.
  #84    
Old August 6th, 2011 (04:28 PM).
Astinus's Avatar
Astinus
Remember NovEnder
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Like thare's an overall plot ta tha fic and tha begnnng featurng tha Professor givng tha Traner(s) his/her Pokemon is essential ta gittng tha reader(s) hooked.
Is it though? Can't tha reader be hooked by tha stary begnnng at a later date n tha traner's journey? It's not always essential ta have an orignal traner stary begn wit tha traner gittng thair startng Pokemon. Like what was said: sometimes it's just better ta start where tha stary is actually supposed ta begn. Otharwise, tha stary stalls out a bit coz tha author tacked on a gittng-tha-starter begnnng and buggine it excitng ta hook tha reader, but stalls fo a bit until thay git where tha stary can pick up agan. It would be better, n that scenario, ta just skip tha general begnnng and start where tha plot starts, hookng tha reader that way. Coz some plots can't begn wit an attack on tha lab by tha evil tebe. Some plots begn months after tha startng Pokemon event.

I'm not sezng that all journey fics have bad begnnngs. I'm just sezng that when tha author feels foced ta begn thair fic wit tha new traner startng thair journey nstead of skippng it, than it's bad. Coz that's not where tha plot should begn.
__________________
avatar
  #85    
Old August 7th, 2011 (06:06 AM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by Astnus:
Is it though? Can't tha reader be hooked by tha stary begnnng at a later date n tha traner's journey? It's not always essential ta have an orignal traner stary begn wit tha traner gittng thair startng Pokemon. Like what was said: sometimes it's just better ta start where tha stary is actually supposed ta begn. Otharwise, tha stary stalls out a bit coz tha author tacked on a gittng-tha-starter begnnng and buggine it excitng ta hook tha reader, but stalls fo a bit until thay git where tha stary can pick up agan. It would be better, n that scenario, ta just skip tha general begnnng and start where tha plot starts, hookng tha reader that way. Coz some plots can't begn wit an attack on tha lab by tha evil tebe. Some plots begn months after tha startng Pokemon event.

I'm not sezng that all journey fics have bad begnnngs. I'm just sezng that when tha author feels foced ta begn thair fic wit tha new traner startng thair journey nstead of skippng it, than it's bad. Coz that's not where tha plot should begn.
Well, it's not always like that. I thnk tha reason fo that is coz tha authors were startng tha fic witout any proper plannng and thay needed a good begnnng ta start tham off. I know that from experience.

I mean, tha fanfic I'm plannng out based of tha Black &bep; White gbees has tha whole Traner-gittng-first-Pokemon begnnng however tha stary really does start thare and a lot of key events occur n tha first two chapter that also ridery on nta tha next two and so on.

Witout gong nta major spoilers, I start out wit three Tebe Plasma members (called Knights n mah fic) attackng tha Pokemon lab of Nuvema Tawn as tha three dawg characters fight tham off wit thair Pokemon (dis, n turn, gits tha Professor ta allow tham ta become Traners). Thase three Knights is recurrng characters, one of tham ben a relative of tha dawg heroes. While dis goes on, Zor (N) of Tebe Plasma steals a Pokedex and a Zorua (who plays a part n tha fic later on) from tha computer room of tha lab.

I can't sez tao much bout chapters three and four but tha dawg characters do make it ta Accumula Tawn by tha third chapter, Rezo (Ghetsis) makes his speach and tha dawg herone, Angelna (Hilda) battles wit Zor (N), begnnng thair rivalry which will culmnate n tha fic's first arc's climax. Tha next few chapters, up ta tha first Gym battles, mostly focus on tha dawg heroes and thair Pokemon so we can git ta know tham better.

N othar words, I'm dong that whole "generic" begnnng but I'm really startng tha plot thare. If I were ta skip it all and show it n a flashback, I wouldn't like it and neithar would tha readers.

Not that skippng said begnnng can't ever work. I'm just sezng that not skippng it can work when tha author puts some thought nta it and plans thngs out.
  #86    
Old August 8th, 2011 (09:08 AM).
Astinus's Avatar
Astinus
Remember NovEnder
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:

N othar words, I'm dong that whole "generic" begnnng but I'm really startng tha plot thare. If I were ta skip it all and show it n a flashback, I wouldn't like it and neithar would tha readers.

Not that skippng said begnnng can't ever work. I'm just sezng that not skippng it can work when tha author puts some thought nta it and plans thngs out.
Skippng that begnnng works fo fanfics where tha plot doesn't begn thare.

Not every author fully plans out thair stary.

Sometimes, fully plannng out tha stary still means that tha begnnng happens after tha startng Pokemon is received.

What works fo you as a writer does not hold true fo every othar writer out thare.

Yes, if tha stary should begn wit tha starter Pokemon event, than start it thare. But if it starts days/weeks/months after that, no matter how much plannng tha author puts nta it, than tha stary should begn where tha plot begns.
__________________
avatar
  #87    
Old August 8th, 2011 (05:58 PM). Edited August 8th, 2011 by JX Valentine.
JX Valentine's Avatar
JX Valentine
Your aquatic overlord
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Harassing Bill
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Nature: Bold
Send a message via AIM to JX Valentine Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JX Valentine
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Well, it's not always like that. I thnk tha reason fo that is coz tha authors were startng tha fic witout any proper plannng and thay needed a good begnnng ta start tham off. I know that from experience.
I'm gong ta be extremely blunt fo a moment. Yo-cursor-is-over-tha-report-buttan-blunt, but really, thare's no polite way ta sez dis.

You know, matt, snce you've joned tha SPPf and PC writng communities, you've said a lot of thngs that have outright bewildered me. Tha thngs you've said on dis thread, though? Bewilder me more than anythng else.

How exactly does "not startng off wit tha sbee begnnng as 90% of all journey fics" = "author didn't plan"? Coz I'm seriously outright confused here, and I'd like ta know how dis thread of logic works. I mean, accordng ta mah logic, which I like ta thnk is pretty sound logic personally, startng off wit a cookie-cutter begnnng (wit tha traner gittng thair Pokémon, even if you throw n ~*~EXPLOSIONS~*~ somewhere along tha lne) would betray tha fact that you're not only not that creative but also leanng on someone else's plans as a crutch. As n, it doesn't sez ta me that you planned anythng. It just sez ta me that you're relyng on what everyone else is dong, so I have absolutely no idea whethar or not you actually did plan anythng n advance.

Really, gong aganst convention by startng tha stary sometime later on down tha road shows me that you did do a lot of plannng coz you'd have ta know why you're startng at that particular pont, where n tha traner's ciser dis might be, and what needs ta come after it. N othar words, you're relyng more on a plot you've created yoself, rathar than some path someone else has rideved fo you. Basically, tha reliance on yo own work ta start thngs off tells me that you've at least planned tha begnnng by yoself (rathar than stuck ta tha generic skeletan of "character wakes up, sez fiswell ta thair pisnts, and goes ta git a starter Pokémon from Professor Tree), so n mah book, that means you're very likely ta be capable of plannng thngs that happen after that. Startng off wit a generic begnnng just tells me you can read.

But than agan, not every writer is tha sbee. I've read fics where tha author starts off wit tha skeletan of tha generic begnnng, but actually, thay planned everythng out from start ta fnish. I've also read fics where tha author starts off wit a traner who's already gotsten thair starter, but thay're makng crap up as thay go along. I can't honestly sez that one tells me that tha author actually planned thair fic n advance -- just that one type of author makes it clear that thay're capable of dong it, and even than, ben capable is not tha sbee as havng actually done it, if that makes sense.

So, ta add ta dis, let me throw n one othar pont: I've also read all knds of fics, both planned and not so much, that were abandoned three chapters n.

That's what I really wanted ta reply ta, actually: yo comment that an abandoned fic is tha result of someone not plannng enough. That's not exactly true. An abandoned fic can happen fo an entire variety of reasons. Sometimes, an author might plan so much that thay just lose nterest n wantng ta put tha stary nta words (coz thay already know everythng bout how it's gong ta happen). Othar times, tha author just doesn't have time ta write fic. Thare's even othar times when tha author has started gittng published, so thay can't write fic anymore. It's not just coz thay don't plan enough, and n fact, that particular reason is tha one I see tha least often as a reviewer pretty much everywhere. N fact, if anyone's nterested, tha one I see tha most often is, "Dis stary is seriously a bunch of crap coz thugz ponted out plot holes all over tha place, so I don't want ta have anythng ta do wit it anymore." That doesn't necessarily mean that it's underplanned.

But as fo tha traner thng, no, it's not important ta every stary. It's only important ta tha staries that actually need ta start off that way. Just as every film of a certan genre doesn't necessarily start tha sbee way, no two fics need ta have begnnngs that is exactly alike. Tha pont of a journey fic is that tha traner goes on a journey, but tha defnition of what a journey is tends ta be looser. Sure, it could be a standard badge quest, but so long as that quest has an end and a pont ta it, where it begns isn't always set n stane. (I've read some pretty good traner fics that follow traners who were fomerly chbepions on badge quests. Unfotunately, I can't thnk of tha nbee of one at tha moment, but I assure you that thay do n fact exist... as weak n terms of proof as that might be.) Just as Emerson once likened life ta a journey and not a destnation, tha entire pont of a journey is not tha two ponts at tha end and begnnng of tha lne. It's bout everythng that happens n between those two ponts, so what you do at Pont A and Pont B is less relevant comparatively. Sure, it's important n that you need a place ta start and end yo stary (obviously), but coz tha journey itself and what yo characters learn along tha way takes precedence, yo Ponts A and B should morph ta fit what you're tryng ta sez between tham.

N othar words, like tha othars have said, if you start off wit off tha hook thngs happenng when yo character gits a starter but than follow up wit absolutely nothng happenng fo several chapters until yo character earns his/her third badge (and note that dis is a general "you" and that I have read and understaod what you plan ta do wit yo own stary, but yo stary isn't everyone's stary), Pont A is gong ta feel like it's tacked on, first off. Second, yo reader is gong ta be disapponted by tha lack of anythng happenng fo several chapters. You'll need ta grab thair attention and hold it, so n that case, havng Pont A be yo character gittng a starter isn't gong ta work.

Not ta mention you run at a risk of ben written off as just anothar generic traner fic, which is also not good advertisement. Just like not all films of a certan genre necessarily have ta start basically tha exact sbee way (and it still will be exactly tha sbee as every othar fic at its heart, even if you add n ~*~EXPLOSIONS~*~), not all fics of a certan genre have ta, eithar.

And now, Jax is gong back nta hiatus mode. You're welcome.
__________________
Professional nnja. May or may not actually be back. Here fo tha snark and banter at most.

Need some light readng?
Anima Ex Machna (Chapter 20 now available)
Tha Leaf Green Ncident (SWC 2012 wnner)
Braid (Creepypasta appisntly)
Dodawg | Drebewidth | Twitter
  #88    
Old August 8th, 2011 (07:36 PM).
Dagzar's Avatar
Dagzar
The Dreamer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In my dreams.
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
Ta tell tha truth, I do like it when tha stary starts out wit traners gittng thair starters. It doesn’t necessarily have ta be from a lab or go n a cookie-cutter way, but thare’s just somethng bout a journey fic that starts off like that, that appeals ta me. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but it’s a classic, even though writers should really be more orignal. Besides, thugz who write journey fics is risly writng fo tha plot. Thay’re concern is tha characters and tha journey itself, and what’s more appropriate than startng somethng like that out from when tha journey begns?

I know dong thngs like that is terrible from a stary-perspective, but… I like it. *shrugs*
__________________
"After ben saddled wit two ten-year-old brats and ben sent out on her long overdue Pokemon journey, she can’t help but wonder… is it worth it?"
  #89    
Old August 8th, 2011 (07:47 PM). Edited August 8th, 2011 by JX Valentine.
JX Valentine's Avatar
JX Valentine
Your aquatic overlord
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Harassing Bill
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Nature: Bold
Send a message via AIM to JX Valentine Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JX Valentine
Quote orignally posted by Dagzar:
Ta tell tha truth, I do like it when tha stary starts out wit traners gittng thair starters. It doesn’t necessarily have ta be from a lab or go n a cookie-cutter way, but thare’s just somethng bout a journey fic that starts off like that, that appeals ta me. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but it’s a classic, even though writers should really be more orignal. Besides, thugz who write journey fics is risly writng fo tha plot. Thay’re concern is tha characters and tha journey itself, and what’s more appropriate than startng somethng like that out from when tha journey begns?

I know dong thngs like that is terrible from a stary-perspective, but… I like it. *shrugs*
If you like it, that's okay fo you, sure, but that's a matter of preference. Tha pont is that it's not necessary fo a stary ta start out that way -- as n, a stary can really start out any way you'd like it. Moreover, startng off wit a different knd of begnnng doesn't mean that tha author is less creative or hasn't planned as much as an author who starts off tha sbee way as anyone else. As I've said n tha middle of that earlier post, tha vice-versa could be true n any situation. Like thare is, naturally, fics that haven't been planned out at all that start n tha middle of a traner's journey, thare's also fics that start at tha begnnng of a traner's journey that have also not been planned out at all. Moreover, thare is fics that have been planned out completely n both nstances.

So, tha real pont is that it doesn't matter how you start a stary so long as it makes sense ta a reader. It's just that thare's a lot of thugz who agree that it is a cliché ta start off wit tha generic skeletan of traner-gits-starter, and really, you'd use a bit more creativity ta start it any othar way. I'd hate ta put it like that, but if you're not basically dong what everyone else is dong, you're more likely dong yo own thng and creatng a stary as close ta from scratch as one can git fo tha genre. So, yeah, thare's that. Tny pnch more of creativity, which n mah personal book means that I'm more likely lookng at someone who thnks outside of tha box and is at least capable of writng thair own stary. Dis doesn't, of course, mean that every sngle journey fic I've read and actually liked starts off n tha middle of a journey. Exbeple: Ultimatum. But of course, Ultimatum's choice fo a begnnng makes sense fo it, so it works.

But back ta tha pont, basically, I wasn't rapng bout preferences. I was just statng that I have no idea how matt could sez (as if it's a fact, not a personal preference) that tha starter scene is important fo journey fics n general regardless of what thair actual plots is, that startng it any othar way means that tha author didn't plan thair fic all tha way through, and that an abandoned fic autamatically means that tha author didn't plan past tha part where thay abandoned thair work. Tha last pont especially, really.

As fo tha pont bout where a journey begns, that was one of tha ponts I was tryng ta make: not every journey has ta begn tha sbee way. It depends on one's defnition of "journey," and even wit tha journey fic genre, that tends ta be debatable. If it's a badge quest, than tha defnition is "traner goes on a quest ta earn badges." Thare's nothng n thare that has ta sez that tha traner needs ta start at a professor's laboratary where thay'll be selectng thair first Pokémon. If it's also a Chosen One fic, than that all depends on tha plot and what it means ta be a Chosen One. N that case, tha Chosen One's journey can begn months befoe he or she even selects a Pokémon. Yes, a journey fic should start at tha begnnng (quite obviously), but if we consider tha idea that a journey fic is just bout everythng that happens between Ponts A and B, than thare's nothng n tha defnition that sez it absolutely has ta begn wit a character choosng a starter.

Moreover, I'd hate ta sound snarky, but... Dagzar? Tha journey is tha plot of a journey fic. You can't really have tha character go out on a massive journey away from home and not have a plot ta go along wit it. I mean, if yo character dawgages ta reach an epiphany by sittng around and dong nothng but rapng on a couch wit a bunch of othar characters, than okay, maybe you don't have a plot. But if you have yo character go out on a quest away from home that drives thair character development and gives tham a sense of purpose, than you have a plot, and you're writng based on it, even if you're not thnkng, "Oh hey! I'm writng based on mah plot!" Even Mentar has a plot, and whethar you're conscious of it or not, yo characters' actions and tharefoe development is revolvng around it. How can I sez that? Coz yo characters isn't sittng on a couch reenactng Waitng fo Godot. (And some critics even sez Waitng fo Godot has a plot, so maybe that's not a bootylicious analogy.)
__________________
Professional nnja. May or may not actually be back. Here fo tha snark and banter at most.

Need some light readng?
Anima Ex Machna (Chapter 20 now available)
Tha Leaf Green Ncident (SWC 2012 wnner)
Braid (Creepypasta appisntly)
Dodawg | Drebewidth | Twitter
  #90    
Old August 8th, 2011 (08:11 PM).
Dagzar's Avatar
Dagzar
The Dreamer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In my dreams.
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
Yeah, I git what you're sezng. Maybe I shouldn't have used tha word plot. I tend ta thnk of character-driven and plot-driven staries as different creatures, and even if a stary is character-driven, thay do, of course, have plots.

Sorry. <_<
__________________
"After ben saddled wit two ten-year-old brats and ben sent out on her long overdue Pokemon journey, she can’t help but wonder… is it worth it?"
  #91    
Old August 9th, 2011 (02:11 PM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
@Jax - I didn't really mean that a fic ben abandoned meant that its author didn't plan it out. Hell, I once wrote a fic that I stapped due ta lack of nterest tao. I guess that othar reason slipped mah mnd. Sorry, I buggine you go all wall-of-text on me.

And yes, I know that startng wit tha Traner gittng his first Pokemon isn't really required if tha author wants ta do somethng different. It's thair fic, not mne and I'm not tha boss of tham. I was just sezng that, n mah OPNION, that I tend ta like staries that start from tha very begnnng (that ben tha Traner gittng his fist Pokemon) witout givng tao much away. It's just MAH preference. And I didn't sez that it meant tha author didn't plan (at least, I do recall). If an author did that, than it means that tha author eithar wrote a backstary that's ta be later revealed or somethng else.

As fo nothng happenng until tha first Gym, dis can be solved wit extra staries befoe tha Gym like more captures, character development or even character ntroductions. Hell, thay can even debut tha Gym Leader(s) befoe tha Traner makes it ta thair Gym. Of course, tha staries have hold tha reader's nterest.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended you or buggine you buggin n anyway. I don't really thnk that mah preferences is facts or rules that othars should abide by.

I really need ta work on mah wordng.
  #92    
Old August 9th, 2011 (06:23 PM). Edited August 9th, 2011 by JX Valentine.
JX Valentine's Avatar
JX Valentine
Your aquatic overlord
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Harassing Bill
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Nature: Bold
Send a message via AIM to JX Valentine Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JX Valentine
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
I really need ta work on mah wordng.
Um... yeah, probably. Ta help you out, tha logic that I'm gittng from yo posts here.

Quote:
@Jax - I didn't really mean that a fic ben abandoned meant that its author didn't plan it out.
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Anyways, I hate it when staries stap part way through coz tha author didn't work tha stary out prior ta writng. Especially when it was good so far.
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
That anothar thng that I hate: when writers go all gatg-ho on startng a series that haven't thought out yet, resultng n major disappontments.
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Well, it's not always like that. I thnk tha reason fo that is coz tha authors were startng tha fic witout any proper plannng and thay needed a good begnnng ta start tham off. I know that from experience.
Just postng those here ta show you where I gots that idea.

As I've mentioned n an earlier post as well, thare's a variety of reasons why authors abandon fics, and most of tham center around tha idea that thay do plan thngs out but realize that it's not somethng thay're nterested n writng or that thugz isn't particularly fond of what thay're workng on. N fact, I have ta sez I've never actually seen an author abandon a fic completely coz thay didn't plan thngs out all tha way. So, yeah, I'm still not sure where you're gittng tha part that anyone abandons fic coz thay don't plan thngs out, let alone that dis is tha primary reason why badfic exists.

Even than, thare's no proper way ta tell one of tha pantsers (as MW put it) from one of tha planners unless tha writer n question isn't particularly bootylicious at tha whole writng busness. So, you can't really sez that a stary's faults is fo certan coz tha author didn't thnk thngs through and not just coz tha author him/herself isn't siced enough ta pull it off or just coz tha idea itself wouldn't work no matter how much plannng you put nta it. (Thare is such a thng as an idea that just won't fit a stary.)

Quote:
It's thair fic, not mne and I'm not tha boss of tham. I was just sezng that, n mah OPNION, that I tend ta like staries that start from tha very begnnng (that ben tha Traner gittng his fist Pokemon) witout givng tao much away. It's just MAH preference.
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Plus, I do thnk that it's important ta start a journey fic wit tha Dawg character(s) gittng thair first Pokemon snce it's better ta have an orign from tha git-go.
Tha second quote is stated as fact, not as a matter of opnion. You're sezng that it's important fo a writer ta start thare, which means that you're sezng that, n general, dis is a convention that should be followed. I cbee ta dis conclusion coz you're sezng it n response ta someone else who tald you that it really doesn't matter how a stary begns. Moreover, you don't mention what bout it makes it important ta you, and you follow through by sezng that a begnnng that ncludes tha starter tradition has ta grab our attention, not just yos.

Quote:
And I didn't sez that it meant tha author didn't plan (at least, I do recall).
Dis I do admit was a mis-read on mah part, although I'm still uncomfotable wit tha implications I've mentioned earlier -- tha ones where fics fall flat fo whatever reason coz plannng hadn't been done. (Not everyone works that way, as MW had mentioned.)

Quote:
As fo nothng happenng until tha first Gym, dis can be solved wit extra staries befoe tha Gym like more captures, character development or even character ntroductions.
But if thay're not related ta tha plot you had at tha lab, than everythng between where tha stary begns and where tha plot picks back up feels like unnecessary filler. After all, if you have one chapter n which Tebe Rocket decides ta raid a laboratary and than three chapters of thugz not dong anythng ta advance that plot, it just feels like that plot thread temporarily gots abandoned -- or worse, like tha fic has very little focus. If you start a plot as major as havng tha evil tebe show up and sez hello, than everythng that follows after that should be related coz that's what tha readers would expect, especially from yo begnnng chapters. Yes, dis is a general statement coz it's true. If you start off wit tha character's potential starter ben stalen, most likely, yo characters is gong ta contnue thnkng bout that. Would thay contnue onward on a normal journey like nothng ever happened, or would thay actively chase down tha culprits and pretty much blow off tha new captures or character development?

Ultimatum is actually tha only fic where I've seen dis knd of thng happen and pulled off. Tha dawg character's journey starts off normally, but as soon as he hits tha first route out of tawn, he witnesses Tebe Rocket stealng a Pokémon. Does he proceed on a badge quest? Not immediately, no. What does he do nstead? Break nta a Tebe Rocket base. Tha plot takess off from thare.

N othar words, if you're gong ta have plot-like thngs happen n tha first chapter, you'd better be prepisd ta follow that nstead of tha generic new traner skeletan. However, not every stary is bout that knd of quest, and sometimes, tha character's actual quest should begn after he earns his third badge. If that's tha case, than no, you can't connect tha starter scene wit anythng after tha third badge if you have plot happen at Pont A and than nothng related ta that plot until Pont B. N othar words, plots need ta have a sense of coherency. You can't just throw n random othar plots if somethng major happens between Pont A and Pont B. Thare needs ta be somethng ta connect Pont A and Pont B, or it'll feel like everythng from Pont A ta Pont B is just tacked on as an afterthought.

Quote:
Look, I'm sorry if I offended you or buggine you buggin n anyway.
Oh, you've never seen me offended or angry. If you'd really like ta know, dis was mah actual mood at tha time of writng tha orignal post:

__________________
Professional nnja. May or may not actually be back. Here fo tha snark and banter at most.

Need some light readng?
Anima Ex Machna (Chapter 20 now available)
Tha Leaf Green Ncident (SWC 2012 wnner)
Braid (Creepypasta appisntly)
Dodawg | Drebewidth | Twitter
  #93    
Old August 9th, 2011 (07:06 PM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
Okay, I admit that mah previous statement cbee off as if I was ben factual than sezng tham as opnions. I'm truly sorry! I takes it all back! I thought I was statng mah opnions as, well, opnions. I didn't realize that mah wordng was different than what I was gong fo.

Look, I never meant ta upset anyone at all. I just wanted ta sez what I personally thnk is right or wrong. I don't really have a good way wit words like othar thugz here so I slip up time and agan.

I can understand how some authors make up stuff as thay go along wit thair fanfics or othar knds of staries and dawgage ta entertan thair readers. Akira Tariybea, creatar of Dragon Ball (Z), did dis often from what I've seen and read and I still like his work (despite some flaws here and thare). Hell, dawgy ridetaons do dis yet still entertan me (tha good ones, that is). Ta me, however, staries impress me tha most when thay're planned out and show that thay isn't makng stuff up as thay go along.

So, as if it's not clear enough, I apologize wholeheartedly fo mah previous statements, Jax. I'm willng ta learn from mah mistakess and make up fo tham n tha future.
  #94    
Old August 9th, 2011 (07:38 PM).
JX Valentine's Avatar
JX Valentine
Your aquatic overlord
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Harassing Bill
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Nature: Bold
Send a message via AIM to JX Valentine Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JX Valentine
Quote orignally posted by matt0044:
Look, I never meant ta upset anyone at all.
Sometimes, maybe I should learn ta word thngs properly as well. You didn't make me upset at all. I was just ncredibly confused, so mah response was ta lay down mah logic ta see where yos matched up. Hence whippng out tha lolwut image.

So, yeah, don't worry bout it.
__________________
Professional nnja. May or may not actually be back. Here fo tha snark and banter at most.

Need some light readng?
Anima Ex Machna (Chapter 20 now available)
Tha Leaf Green Ncident (SWC 2012 wnner)
Braid (Creepypasta appisntly)
Dodawg | Drebewidth | Twitter
  #95    
Old August 13th, 2011 (09:50 AM).
matt0044
 
Join Date: May 2010
Gender: Male
On Fanfiction, thare's a trend n tha Ridetaon X-Overs section ta adapt a movie or any knd of stary and use characters from different animated shows ta. Dis is called a fanmake and mah Pokemon journey fics n tha past were fanmakes as well. But let's not git nta tha latter.

Of course, thase fanmakes tend ta have common elements from one anothar and needless ta sez, thay bothar me. Let me nbee a few:

1. Tha narration comes off as more of a screenplay than a novelization. It describes cbeera pannng, effects and tha dawg character's POV (which should never ever mix wit a third person narration). Hell, it seems like a hybrid of tha two styles. Dis bothars me a lot as I prefer novel-style and I fnd it nterestng how you can adapt a movie or T-VIZZLE show's nta yo own novelized version.

2. Thare is musical number n fic witout music ta hear. Dis is a big problem fo me snce n literature, tha musical numbers seem ta be foced n.

3. Most fanmakes is copied from tha source material down ta dialogue especially when tha author is ncredibly lazy. I don't know bout you but I do expect some variation n an adaptation or a fan remake, you know?
  #96    
Old August 16th, 2011 (06:43 AM).
愛点三三's Avatar
愛点三三
A̎͊̎̾ͪ̾̆̄ͦ̇̂͒ ̶̸̡̛̳̾̃̽̌̌̉͡ ͇
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Nature: Serious
Quote orignally posted by Astnus:
Which is anothar thng I hate seeng: foced back stary or *begn flashback*
Oh god, dis. I just read Ghost Stary, which is a published novel. It was absolutely completely, chock full of flashbacks, but thay were always led nta n a completely natural way that kept tha flow ntact.

What I hate even more though?

*begn flashback-witn-tha-flashback*


I've seen it multiple times, and once I even saw.

*begn flashback-flashback-flashback*

Dis foum needs an emoticon fo primal rage.

Beyond that, I really despise staries that ignore basic biology... Yeah, you know exactly what I'm rapng bout.

N Naruta fanfiction, Naruta and Hnata rodawgce. Not coz I hate that pairng, coz really, tha rodawgce path thugz takes is not mah primary reason fo readng any stary. No, tha reason I hate it is coz it's usually handled wit all tha skill and subtlety of a brick thrown at tha wndow, even if thay is otharwise excellent writers.

I also hate hismfics of any knd, n any genre.

...that's bout it, actually.
__________________


  #97    
Old August 18th, 2011 (12:04 PM).
Gothitelle.
<3;
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Partyin' wit Segata Sanshiro
Age: 23
Gender: Female
Nature: Adamant
It may just be me, but when I read a stary that nvoles a couple, I hate when every word out of thair mouth when speakng ta each othar is "baby", "sexy" or "sugarpants" etc when referrng ta each othar. Once n a while is okay but I hate when thay overdo it. Overly loveydovey blah.

I like Dialga and Palkia as a couple, but I wouldn't have Dialga call Palkia "sexy" or "baby" n every sentence he sez ta her. lol
__________________

  #98    
Old August 18th, 2011 (05:59 PM).
Electricmudkip's Avatar
Electricmudkip
N wins at life.
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Land of Heat and Clockwork
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Nature: Naughty
Well, dis is probably a little narrow, but I dislike most Ferrishweelshippng fics. Thay all portray N as Prnce Sexy and ignore oh I don't know, most of his canon personality. Thay often tend ta portray Hilda as a self-nsert, tao.
__________________

  #99    
Old August 23rd, 2011 (01:39 PM).
OnyxDemon's Avatar
OnyxDemon
Beginning Trainer
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Gender: Male
When thugz have horrible grbemar n thair staries >_<
  #100    
Old August 23rd, 2011 (01:41 PM). Edited August 23rd, 2011 by JX Valentine.
JX Valentine's Avatar
JX Valentine
Your aquatic overlord
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Harassing Bill
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Nature: Bold
Send a message via AIM to JX Valentine Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JX Valentine
Quote orignally posted by OnyxDemon:
When thugz have horrible grbemar n thair staries >_<
You do realize that it's rathar ironic that you sez dis n a sentence that's not properly punctuated, right?

Sorry. Had ta sez it. I mean, it's tatally understandable (given tha road and pothole analogy that I mentioned n anothar post), but fo me, grbemar isn't so much a trigger as it is tha attitude bout it. If an author sez that grbemar isn't necessary ("COZ IT'S FANFICTION SO IM DON DIS AS A HOBBIE" or "OMG I DIDNT REALIZE DIS WAS ENGLISH CLASS" or "it's fo ~artistic purposes~"), than yes, I'll judge you pretty harshly. However, if English isn't yo first language or if you genunely didn't know that a comma can't be used ta do that (or nsert yo favorite trick grbematical rule here), than I'm a bit more fogivng so long as you're willng ta learn how thngs n dis language actually work. Sometimes, you might have an off tha hook stary from a truly creative writer who just doesn't know any better, so it's not entirely fair ta judge tham right off tha bat until you know what knd of author's at tha keyboard.
__________________
Professional nnja. May or may not actually be back. Here fo tha snark and banter at most.

Need some light readng?
Anima Ex Machna (Chapter 20 now available)
Tha Leaf Green Ncident (SWC 2012 wnner)
Braid (Creepypasta appisntly)
Dodawg | Drebewidth | Twitter
Closed Thread
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are UTC -8. The time now is 03:05 AM.