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  #1    
Old August 27th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Exile's Avatar
Exile
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» CBC: What needs to change and what we can do to change it

Alright, I didn't think I'd have to be posting this thread, since it not only embodies my own opinions and qualms about CBC, but those of other members as well. I'm not a strong user, I'm not one of the "old regulars" and I'd normally take a backseat, but it seems like no one else is going to step up to the plate. Alright, well I'll lead off with the fact that this is no longer Pokemon Strategies and Movesets, this is the Competitive Battling Center, and while it may seem like I'm stating the obvious, but there is way too much of an emphasis being placed here on garnering good raters and the rating and posting of teams. So the following suggestions to be realities, we're going to have to attract battlers. I don't see finding raters as an issue, mainly because as someone becomes more experienced as a battler, they eventually accumulate enough Competitive Know-how to provide good rates, and it's up to them whether they want to be an active team rater or not, hopefully they choose the former, but we need to spark an interest in the metagame in these users. Battling is what we all find to be fun, rating teams is really just a way of helping new users so that we can guide them in the right direction they're truly interested in learning the game.

The crux of this thread is essentially that if we get enough people interested in battling exploits like clans and tours become can become realistic ideas instead of far-fetched ones.The only reason we were able to get 64 entrants in PC's official tour is because KG had connections outside of PC. We really need to find other ways of generating interest outside of the tutoring program, because our battling community can only get smaller if we do nothing. Basically, instead of just one on one tutoring, we should all try and take it upon ourselves to help new users. An example transcript of what I envision:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Example
Battle between new user and Regular started
Regular won against new user
New User: Dang, you're tough, I got smashed. Any tips?
Regular: I think you should probably take Charizard out of your team in favor of a stronger fire type like Volcarona, after that you could post an RMT and maybe get some more insight on how to improve your team.
New User: Ok Thanks! :)
Even small acts of kindness like this can steer new users in the right direction. I know very well that losing constantly destroys morale, if a new user keeps using a team full of their favorites, then they won't make any progress until they go to Smogon and discover, or someone tells them, that some of their Pokemon aren't viable in Competitive Play. Only then can they grow and learn battling strategy, as even the best have a hard time winning with Pokemon that aren't viable. Getting new users is how we're going to save this place.

Now this post is absolute gold and outlines everything that we should be doing to make this place "fun". Honestly, it just seems like we're simply rating teams and chatting on the server these days, no leagues, no events, no tournaments. Speaking of which, the server is rarely active these days, which definitely needs to change. Myself, Phinamthi, Forever, Jake[Musicnote], Aero, Luke and Alexial are the only ones that really come on the server anymore and rarely at the same time. It's pretty embarrassing how we have one of the larger battling communities on the internet, but out server can barely muster 5 users online at a time. I remember how much I used to love the server, with Lala up to his usual antics and being kicked accordingly, Anti talking diplomacy and Elf proudly spouting remarks of British Nationalism. What happened to all of that? I remember user Jirachel joining our server and partaking in all of the activity and chatting that went on there, a while ago. More or less, our server's activity attracted users like her to log on often and chat. She's gone inactive, but that's beside the point, as she can be used to show that an active server will attract more users to log on and chat often. Whereas an inactive server will get us a D- from a user by the name of "Server Inspector".

On the subject of Community Nights, I think if we can have them, then that would be amazing. I think the CBC Community really needs to get together and just partake in massive chatting and casual, yet fun battles. I really can't stress this enough that this is supposed to be enjoyable for everyone, not a chore and not a boring exploit. An RMT Archive, or RMT of the Month thing and emblems might help as well. It has come to my attention that none of us "regulars" post RMTs anymore, which is a real shame, since I'm sure a ton of people, myself included have learned something reading "Volcano Bakemeat" or "Elf Stall",an RMT Archive could possibly entice the regulars to post more RMTs and would allow users to read the sentiments and strategies of experienced players, as well as learn how to make a great RMT. While the majority of us probably don't value emblems, they do increase morale a bit, as it shows that someone's efforts are being recognized.

Finally, this last sentiment is more addressed to some of the members who have waded in CBC waters a bit, but haven't really introduced themselves to the community. Whether you're shy, college is eating your time or your primary allegiance is to Smogon, we welcome everyone with open arms and won't hold a negative opinion of you unless you give us a reason to. I'm not saying you should feel obligated to talk to us or anything, but even if you get on PO and partake in some of the conversation just once, I'm sure a few of us will appreciate it.

Well, I'm pretty much finished with this tl;dr, and hopefully this will be the last 'CBC Improvement Thread' that has to be posted. Since the old community has, admittedly, started to fall apart, it's up to us to build a new one. All of our goals are within reach. So come on, CBC:

LET'S GET IT
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  #2    
Old August 27th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Vrai
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Firstly I wanna say that I apologize for being unable to be here, too. I've been insanely busy. I can rant off my schedule for you to look over and realize that I literally have maybe an hour of free time during the regular school day (yay homework eating that up) but I don't think you want to hear that. I want an active CBC just as much as you do but I feel pretty awful saying that and knowing that I can't contribute. I will as soon as I can, but until then I really can't that much. I'll work at it, though...

But I agree. The reason we don't have activity is that no one cares enough to give effort and everyone is either busy or 'quit' battling anyway. Again I wish I could jump in and get things done but I can't. What's preventing everyone who has the time from offering rates or working on teams, even if they are just 'gimmick' teams? Gimmick teams are actually really fun and hard to make effective and even when you play with gimmicks it just makes you a better battler, identifying weaknesses in the metagame (like finding Pokemon that are really uncommon but effective) and abusing team creation to emphasize your gimmicks to the max. It's being really innovative to play with gimmicks and if you're a guy like that (read: Aero, Spinosaurus, etc) then I want you to rate/post teams too. I mean I really have no grounds to say things like that for now but we do want activity here and we want other people to show up and care so we gotta show them we care too.
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  #3    
Old August 27th, 2011, 10:52 AM
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I'm sure to be stuck on CBC for awhile. Though, I never knew the server has ever exceeded 10 People before. I come there a lot, and usually 1 or 2 people will be there. I don't even think they pay any attention at all. Though, I hope the server will be busier, it's 1 of 2 places I will be an ol' regular at. (Rom Hacking)
What where you saying? Lala and Anti were on at midnight, and Lala was actually on today. I'm glad some people came back to the server, but it is still pretty hopeless, all we can do is try to lure users to join CBC . Oh, and you can add Shadowtriad to the "The only people online" list, she's also on a lot-in the mornings.


Quote:
Battle between new user and Regular started
Regular won against new user
New User: Dang, you're tough, I got smashed. Any tips?
Regular: I think you should probably take Charizard out of your team in favor of a stronger fire type like Volcarona, after that you could post an RMT and maybe get some more insight on how to improve your team.
New User: Ok Thanks!


Well... That actually happened to me today. There was a beginner named Danger/turtwigfan001 and I smashed him 5-0. I helped him on his mons, and he improved 3-0. I know I have a mentor, but and apprentice having another apprentice? Weird isn't it?


LET'S GET IT

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  #4    
Old August 27th, 2011, 10:59 AM
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Exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
Firstly I wanna say that I apologize for being unable to be here, too. I've been insanely busy. I can rant off my schedule for you to look over and realize that I literally have maybe an hour of free time during the regular school day (yay homework eating that up) but I don't think you want to hear that. I want an active CBC just as much as you do but I feel pretty awful saying that and knowing that I can't contribute. I will as soon as I can, but until then I really can't that much. I'll work at it, though...

But I agree. The reason we don't have activity is that no one cares enough to give effort and everyone is either busy or 'quit' battling anyway. Again I wish I could jump in and get things done but I can't. What's preventing everyone who has the time from offering rates or working on teams, even if they are just 'gimmick' teams? Gimmick teams are actually really fun and hard to make effective and even when you play with gimmicks it just makes you a better battler, identifying weaknesses in the metagame (like finding Pokemon that are really uncommon but effective) and abusing team creation to emphasize your gimmicks to the max. It's being really innovative to play with gimmicks and if you're a guy like that (read: Aero, Spinosaurus, etc) then I want you to rate/post teams too. I mean I really have no grounds to say things like that for now but we do want activity here and we want other people to show up and care so we gotta show them we care too.

Don't worry about it, I know your situation and the fact that you contributed prior to it. In my classic hypocritical fashion, I may be on less due to school and my parents being a bit draconian concerning my computer usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phinamthi View Post
I'm sure to be stuck on CBC for awhile. Though, I never knew the server has ever exceeded 10 People before. I come there a lot, and usually 1 or 2 people will be there. I don't even think they pay any attention at all. Though, I hope the server will be busier, it's 1 of 2 places I will be an ol' regular at. (Rom Hacking)
What where you saying? Lala and Anti were on at midnight, and Lala was actually on today. I'm glad some people came back to the server, but it is still pretty hopeless, all we can do is try to lure users to join CBC :P. Oh, and you can add Shadowtriad to the "The only people online" list, she's also on a lot-in the mornings.





Well... That actually happened to me today. There was a beginner named Danger/turtwigfan001 and I smashed him 5-0. I helped him on his mons, and he improved 3-0. I know I have a mentor, but and apprentice having another apprentice? Weird isn't it?


LET'S GET IT

Shadowtriad is Forever and is on the list, and Lala wasn't extremely active on the server, prior to today. Glad to see you're interested in being a regular, though. ;)
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  #5    
Old August 27th, 2011, 11:43 AM
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I'm in the same boat as Vrai: extremely busy. I think we should be careful not to forget that just a month or so ago, things were looking up. We had enough new blood to make the forum grow, and the only part of the community that was still inactive was the forum...the server was fine. I hate to oversimplify it, but honestly, I feel like people are just busy and once people adapt to all of the back to school stuff and all that comes with it, I expect things to pick up.

In terms of the non-activity stuff...

We made CBC to connect Stadium with S&M and by extension make battling events and groups more of a regular thing here. If people want to start making that happen, I would encourage that.

I'm not too worried though. The example you posted has actually happened numerous times in the past several months. I think things will largely become normal again once people aren't so busy. Tutoring fell apart because Wolf was hugely busy (and as far as I know still is). The same has happened with entire forum because much of the "old guard" has been away. That won't last forever.

We can't do an RMT Archive because regulars generally don't post RMTs...and Smogon already has one.

RMT of the month sounds much more workable. I remember you brought this up several months ago and as far as I remember it got positive reception. It's also very easy to do.

I honestly don't think there's any big crisis. Sometimes people are just busy...it happens.

(I do appreciate you posting this thread though and taking things into your own hands. It's nice to know that it's not just a staff effort like it was a year or so ago.)
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d_a-bread house: what about metagross
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  #6    
Old August 27th, 2011, 01:03 PM
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Even with the subtlety we all know the college comment was me =P

But yeah, in all honestly I've just lost interest in battling. It's not that I don't want to be active and don't want to contribute, but it's hard to put in the effort for something when you really don't have the passion behind it. At some point somethings or someone will light a fire under my butt and I'll probably kick right back up again, but yeah =(

But I honestly do agree with Anti on the matter of activity, this is really a common occurrence every year: Activity dies right before school/college/whatever starts back up due to people preparing, then once everyone gets settled and has their schedules set and time managed people find the time to come back onto the forums/server and battle/talk/make RMTs/etc. again. I think it's more of a waiting game at this point and not an actual total loss of activity. We really have stepped in the total right direction (Minus tutoring, but I really don't have a place to talk on that when I haven't contributed/even been around during the classes), and we just have to keep doing so.
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  #7    
Old August 27th, 2011, 03:06 PM
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Beat you to this (in the staff forums anyway)! I agree with you about sparking interest into battling again for our members, and I am still going to do all the events I mentioned the past. Making battling and the community fun is my main focus right now. I'm worried at how we can make battling more fun to the members who are bored with it though (see: Aero, dragon, Spino, Jake). True, events makes the community interesting, but not the actual battling. I guess we can't do anything about that, but over time some should want to jump into battling again after a break. For anyone complaining about the "horrible" metagame, it isn't bad at all. Platinum was much worse, yet everyone battled in that metagame a lot more than now? BW is the most diverse metagame and gives you the most team options. Every metagame (RBY, GSC, ADV, DPP) has those Pokémon you see all the time, it's inevitable. More than likely, there's going to be a few you will have to prepare a lot for as well. Stop being so pessimistic and enjoy the game for what it is. In the end, it's just Pokémon...we play it to have fun. If you can't enjoy OU, play a different metagame, go make difference at Smogon by voting, or take a break. And if that doesn't help, don't force yourself to battle if you don't want to! Complaining here is pointless and adds another level of pessimism that we don't need.

Anyway, Anti and I agreed to wait a while (as in, until next month or so) before doing anything. Everyone seems to be busy, and both of us are also too busy to work on CBC again just yet. Thanks for making this thread though, these are always good to get people interested again!
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  #8    
Old August 27th, 2011, 05:15 PM
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Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
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I just wanted to post to agree completely with Wolf.

He mentioned playing a different meta. Anyone is free to post a discussion thread to spark interest in another metagame from any accessible generation if you really hate BW OU. I would warn against being too anti-*insert suspect* because Pokemon are rarely as broken (or not broken, in the case of a Salamence or Excadrill) as we make them out to be.

But yeah, with everyone busy and others taking a break from battling, things aren't looking up...but only for now, I think. Everyone needs a break sometimes.
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too
  #9    
Old August 28th, 2011, 01:36 AM
Vrai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolflare View Post
Making battling and the community fun is my main focus right now. I'm worried at how we can make battling more fun to the members who are bored with it though (see: Aero, dragon, Spino, Jake).
I agree with everything our dear wofl said, but this in particular is what we should focus on, I think. If we come up with a solid way to get everyone re-interested and keep them interested with the game, whether that's playing other metagames or even coming up with our own (re: hiker metagame) or just like having gimmick tournaments or whatever. Something interesting is the way to go, I guess, but at the same time we don't wanna push people into doing what they don't wanna do. This should really be the focus for now; making battling here fun, so that guys who are bored of it return, and the guys that are new to it wanna stay.
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  #10    
Old August 28th, 2011, 01:51 PM
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Ugh. I'm gunna be bomb-busy due to homework in the next few weeks, so this might not work out as you planned. It's kinda sad to see things fall apart-even if I've only been here a month or two.

I don't have the biggest idea of what things could've been before, but I can refer to Lala's antics. Damn awesome. I definately agree to what Wolf said. All of it. So what if you quit battling? Maybe your noobs just got better and they could seriously pwn you. So maybe your noobs could pwn you, you can learn a bit more from them and suddenly be interested by battling again! All we know that anything can happen, any angle, direction, or length. I know
I have been able to love battling again that way, anything can happen. So come on CBC:

LET'S REALLY GET IT
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