Competitive Battling Chat

[Karpman]

So PO has competition!

So, what do you guys think of this new sim, Pokemon Showdown? Will you use it over PO, or at the very least, will you try it out? Do you think it will ever see the light of day?

Discuss, etc.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Karpman

So PO has competition!

So, what do you guys think of this new sim, Pokemon Showdown? Will you use it over PO, or at the very least, will you try it out? Do you think it will ever see the light of day?

Discuss, etc.

It might be picky but I don't really like the design of it (okay just the colours, I like PO's! :x) However I'm pretty sure it'll eventually be the one that is used more just for having better features, so there probably will be no choice but to use it in the future since if nobody is using PO, yeaaah.

"Spectating a battle gives you the full log, not just from the point you started watching."
^ I like this.

"Its team chooser is built into the challenge window."
^ I dislike this.

[Cycle]

Why is there never anyone on? There used to be about ten on at any time of day I was on but now when I go on, no one is there.

e.e

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Cycle

Why is there never anyone on? There used to be about ten on at any time of day I was on but now when I go on, no one is there.

e.e

Activity has always declined around this time. Everyone's schedule suddenly got bigger etc. I know I'll be hanging around a lot more in the next few weeks when football clears up for me, and I'm sure other people will gradually come back too.

edit: so rain stall is annoying as hell.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Vrai

edit: so rain stall is annoying as hell.

Omg rain, I swear it's all I ever face. I can generally stand a chance against sun (haven't really faced hail/sand :x) but rain idk it's usually annoying for me. What sucks is that the main issue is usually Politoed, lol.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Forever

Omg rain, I swear it's all I ever face. I can generally stand a chance against sun (haven't really faced hail/sand :x) but rain idk it's usually annoying for me. What sucks is that the main issue is usually Politoed, lol.

But Ferrothorn can easily take on rain teams. IMO, the only Pokemon it would have a hard time against in a rain team is Toxicroak, who can hit it for super effective damage. The damage it takes from Iron Barbs can also be healed by Dry Skin.

Also, here's something I don't get: whenever Spikes and Stealth Rock are options on a Pokemon's sets, why is Spikes the primary option? Personally, I like Stealth Rock because of how it hits all types of Pokemon, though some of them resist it (and 4 Pokemon have 4x resists to it).

[Forever]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

But Ferrothorn can easily take on rain teams. IMO, the only Pokemon it would have a hard time against in a rain team is Toxicroak, who can hit it for super effective damage. The damage it takes from Iron Barbs can also be healed by Dry Skin.

Also, here's something I don't get: whenever Spikes and Stealth Rock are options on a Pokemon's sets, why is Spikes the primary option? Personally, I like Stealth Rock because of how it hits all types of Pokemon, though some of them resist it (and 4 Pokemon have 4x resists to it).

Well, Jirachi can take most of the team (aka tenta/toed/croak after like 2 CMs) only thing is toed usually uses perish song and boom, and there's nothing I really want to switch out to so I guess Ferrothorn could work but I'm trying out Whimsicott which should be able to encore etc toed SO WE SHALL SEE. Other than that I really have no other issues with rain, lol.

yeah idek, 'tis why most of mine are immune to spikes lol :x SR hurts though..

[Karpman]

My team is very weak to rain stall, as Quagsire and Chansey are untouchable as a core, Rain Stall is definitely potent this gen, albeit I do feel like the metagame has now become Ninetales+Dugtrio+Volcarona. Normally, I beat these teams if I can get rid of Dugtrio, but dear god it is a chore. I have to play insanely conservative with Heatran as I absolutely cannot afford to let it snap its balloon early, rendering it Duggy bait.

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

But Ferrothorn can easily take on rain teams. IMO, the only Pokemon it would have a hard time against in a rain team is Toxicroak, who can hit it for super effective damage. The damage it takes from Iron Barbs can also be healed by Dry Skin.

Also, here's something I don't get: whenever Spikes and Stealth Rock are options on a Pokemon's sets, why is Spikes the primary option? Personally, I like Stealth Rock because of how it hits all types of Pokemon, though some of them resist it (and 4 Pokemon have 4x resists to it).

I always feel like everything on a rain team should at least be able to deal with Ferrothorn and if it absolutely can't then really Ferro isn't walling the entirety of a rain team forever. You can only take so many Specs Hydro Pumps... plus things like Toxicroak, Dragonite (whether Sub/DD or Specs Hurricane), Tornadus, Scizor... the list goes on and on. I don't really like using Ferrothorn as it's incredibly predictable and honestly people have found so many workarounds that I'm just like meh, it's Ferrothorn. Maybe I'll try a Curse set since finding an effective gimmick is awesome but until then I don't think I'll be using a Ferrothorn.

Spikes is rarer than SR, ergo it's usually preferred because you can fit SR on many more things.

Originally Posted by Forever

Well, Jirachi can take most of the team (aka tenta/toed/croak after like 2 CMs) only thing is toed usually uses perish song and boom, and there's nothing I really want to switch out to so I guess Ferrothorn could work but I'm trying out Whimsicott which should be able to encore etc toed SO WE SHALL SEE. Other than that I really have no other issues with rain, lol.

yeah idek, 'tis why most of mine are immune to spikes lol :x SR hurts though..

yeah stop using flying types noob

Toxic Spikes are really deadly in this metagame. Unless you're running like mono-immune, it nails everything and all of the common spinners too (...save tenta) and even helps win the weather war. Toxic Spikes are so insanely useful in this metagame, really. Then again, I don't ever want to play a rain stall vs rain stall game either lol. THATD BE FUN

Originally Posted by Karpman

My team is very weak to rain stall, as Quagsire and Chansey are untouchable as a core, Rain Stall is definitely potent this gen, albeit I do feel like the metagame has now become Ninetales+Dugtrio+Volcarona. Normally, I beat these teams if I can get rid of Dugtrio, but dear god it is a chore. I have to play insanely conservative with Heatran as I absolutely cannot afford to let it snap its balloon early, rendering it Duggy bait.

Rain and sun teams are getting more and more popular as the usage of sand declines slightly. And yeah... those sun teams are insane. Maybe those people who didn't want Excadrill banned really knew what they were talking about. );

It'll be a chore to come up with a decent nonweather team that can actually deal with the insane offensive pressure of sun teams + the defensive presence of rain stall. I don't even know where to begin.

[Forever]

not using flying types fool! owait gliscor, okay and the dragon but that totally doesn't count. :3 nvm apparently two = most of in where my brain was at, i keep thinking jirachi has levitate for some stupid reason when thinking about it lol.

oh. toxic spikes is definitely the worst to face & come across. :(
more reasons i love jirachi

[Poueff]

Toxic Spikes is the first thing I set up. And if I get lucky, I get someone who tries to set up DD on my lead (forretress, who is ****ing king) and after I set up all my hazards (full TS + Stealth Rock) and he hits me, Red Card makes all his work useless - and I can also hit EQ on the guy next in his team (and if that doesn't work, I have two more back up tactics to get rid of the mother****ers).

I think Excadrill shouldn't be banned for two very basic reasons:
-It's so ****ing easy to counter it's not even funny. I mean it, even with air balloon, everything is super effective against it except the Latis with Dragon Pulse + Psyshock, but really, normally teams have at least one bulky/fast water or fire type. Or a fighter.
-Other weather

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Poueff

Toxic Spikes is the first thing I set up. And if I get lucky, I get someone who tries to set up DD on my lead (forretress, who is ****ing king) and after I set up all my hazards (full TS + Stealth Rock) and he hits me, Red Card makes all his work useless - and I can also hit EQ on the guy next in his team (and if that doesn't work, I have two more back up tactics to get rid of the mother****ers).

I think Excadrill shouldn't be banned for two very basic reasons:
-It's so ****ing easy to counter it's not even funny. I mean it, even with air balloon, everything is super effective against it except the Latis with Dragon Pulse + Psyshock, but really, normally teams have at least one bulky/fast water or fire type. Or a fighter.
-Other weather

That's an interesting idea and I've never really thought it before. Red Card Forretress.. To be honest though, I like Gyro Ball better than Earthquake because then you can nail Espeon, who is Forry's greatest enemy.

It's impossible to fullstop counter. Air Balloon is risky because as you switch in it could just use another move and then you'd be outta luck. It was just incredibly centralizing and with an SD, it still did heavy damage to those bulky Water types, OHKO'd Fire types, and nearly massacres things like Conkeldurr. Plus it outspeeds everything thanks to Sand Rush.

[Poueff]

Originally Posted by Forever

not using flying types fool! owait gliscor, okay and the dragon but that totally doesn't count. :3 nvm apparently two = most of in where my brain was at, i keep thinking jirachi has levitate for some stupid reason when thinking about it lol.

oh. toxic spikes is definitely the worst to face & come across.
more reasons i love jirachi

Still imune for steel type. I hate Jirachi and his kind (say... Celebi, Whimsiscott and friends) both because they are annoying to the max and they suck when they use them (happens with tons of steel types, just not my style >.<)

Speed Boost. If not Blaziken (I use the PO Wi-Fi server and it's not banned there, so I use Blaziken), something like Sharpedo does the trick too. Just the first turn and the protect boost are enough to outspeed Sand Rush excadrill (at least with Blaziken, and mine has his EVs away from speed because I know I can get it with SB).

That or anything priority, which is a basis in any team really just for revenge kills.

[Porygon Z]

With Excadrill and Thundurus being Uber now, I assume this tier will get lots of new strategies. What do you think?

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Porygon Z

With Excadrill and Thundurus being Uber now, I assume this tier will get lots of new strategies. What do you think?

Sun teams and Rain teams have largely emerged as dominant threats. Old, forgotten threats such as SD Lucario (who was never used because it was so simple to revenge with Excadrill) and Zapdos have been swarming back in. By all means there will be tons of new strategies and teambuilds. Things that worked when Excadrill was around very well might not work now, and vice versa. You'll see a lot of people experimenting with a lot of things now but eventually things will settle down and we'll probably start seeing what's going to be the most dominant in this new metagame.

[grodkorv]

Just wondering if there is anyone playing LC?
I want to start, just wanted to know if anyone else plays it (:

[Dark Azelf]

Heavy Offense is actually viable now as Exca and Thundurus cant just revenge kill/slaughter everything.

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by grodkorv

Just wondering if there is anyone playing LC?
I want to start, just wanted to know if anyone else plays it (:

There are a lot of people but most of them aren't concentrated here. There are a few people who enjoy playing it here though! Might as well give it a try. 8)

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

Heavy Offense is actually viable now as Exca and Thundurus cant just revenge kill/slaughter everything.

Yup. Alakazam is pretty boss now too, outspeeding everything that doesn't have a scarf really. Carrying checks to a few of the common scarf users like Rotom-W and Terrakion and Landorus really makes Zam's job pretty easy.

[PikachuGuy]

Got a little question for you vets, would you rather use Alakazam or Mewtwo? I like Mewtwo since his high stats, but since he's an Uber, I like Alakazam and I think he is more fair to use. But I hate his low defense....or Espeon?

[Twilight Sky]

Originally Posted by PikachuGuy

Got a little question for you vets, would you rather use Alakazam or Mewtwo? I like Mewtwo since his high stats, but since he's an Uber, I like Alakazam and I think he is more fair to use. But I hate his low defense....or Espeon?

This is just my own personal advice, but take it with a grain of salt until a more experienced regular(like Karpman or Vrai or someone else) answers your inquiry, too.

As Vrai has stated, Alakazam has a fairly high base speed, and although it's pretty frail, it's offenses(well, special attack) isn't really anything to scoff at. As far as Espeon is concerned, Magic Bounce allows it to set up Reflect/Light Screen(without any fear from Taunt and it also wards away entry hazards) and also, due to it's ability, it makes quite an impressive Baton Pass user.

Remember that Espeon doesn't have excellent defenses either, but also understand that the defenses aren't really the purpose of these Pokemon. Alakazam need not worry about defenses a lot of the time if used correctly(I believe it can set up a CM or two before sweeping? Correct me if I'm wrong here). But again, it depends on what would be more beneficial to your team. n___n;

[Poueff]

I now changed to a more balanced team, but a more powerful/tactical one, which can really screw people over.

-Lead = Forretress (explained above)
-Crazy Uber *****y Destroyaaah = Swellow - Takes out at least 2/3 team members, and sometimes wins the match for me. She survives priority of any kind like a champ, normally not taking much, and OHKOs everything in sight that's not steel/rock. Also pretty nice for revenge kills, as she can get toxic orb working right away. (Brave Bird + Facade + Quick Attack + Pursuit)
-Fast Set up Sweeper = Gyarados - When I am able to set him up with one/two DDs, he's beast. Only works when I predict correctly - which is 70/30
-Scarfing Hard Hitting Beast = Hydreigon. Basicly an all-out fast+strong combo, even though it normally only stays in for a couple of turns max., since it has a ton of counters. He's pretty awesome though. (Draco Meteor + Fire Blast + Dark Pulse + Stone Edge)
-Slow Set Up Bulky Sweeper = Eelektross (physical, with Wild Volt and Thrash... I love normal wrecking attacks, and with the high attack it gets, it's plummels through a team with at least a coil or two. Being slow is his main flaw, but he can take most hits)
-Support/Wall = Blissey (Heal Bell + Wish + Flamethrower/Hyper Beam (she's hardcore) + Thunder Wave - for those who aren't affected by Toxic Spikes)

I'll post it with more detail a bit later, since I'm not at home and I don't have their team status (also not sure about some of the things mentioned, like Hydreigon in general, since I only remember having a scarf and the only scarfs in the box that make sense here are him and Darmanitan, but I also remember having 3 physical attackers and 1 special). But I was thinking about getting a Milotic instead of Gyarados, since the 4x weakness to electric bugs me incase one shows up (even though grass being neutral is useful), and because setting up DDs the way he does takes a ton of health away, and sometimes kills, being easy bait for the ever present Scizor (almost OHKO'd after SR damage). Milotic is also bulky as all hell, even without rain present.

What also worries me is me being mainly physical (like I said, attackers = 3 physical and 1 special).
Please no suggestions of Ferrothorn.

I haven't played with this team much though, since before I was trying out Infernape one more time. OHKO's Gliscor after one Overheat, which is awesome.

Thank you for your time, I guess x)

[Cycle]

Originally Posted by PikachuGuy

Got a little question for you vets, would you rather use Alakazam or Mewtwo? I like Mewtwo since his high stats, but since he's an Uber, I like Alakazam and I think he is more fair to use. But I hate his low defense....or Espeon?

Sup PikachuGuy, it's nice to see you coming here to ask questions!

Choosing between Alakazam and Mewtwo really depends on your preference. One of the main things you should think about is what tiers they are in. These two pokemon are situated in two tiers, Ubers, and RU(although Alakazam is likely to be bumped up to UU if not OU.) For a complete list of the tiers, go here: http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/

Now onto the real question: Which one will you pick? Well, I myself prefer Alakazam in a standard match. This is because I'm not much of a competitive Uber player and play more standard BW OU. However, if there are no restrictions, go with Mewtwo. This is because Mewtwo has significantly better stats, a wider movepool to abuse, and is generally one of the deadliest sweepers- even in ubers, at least to my knowledge.

Originally Posted by Poueff

I now changed to a more balanced team, but a more powerful/tactical one, which can really screw people over.

-Lead = Forretress (explained above)
-Crazy Uber *****y Destroyaaah = Swellow - Takes out at least 2/3 team members, and sometimes wins the match for me. She survives priority of any kind like a champ, normally not taking much, and OHKOs everything in sight that's not steel/rock. Also pretty nice for revenge kills, as she can get toxic orb working right away. (Brave Bird + Facade + Quick Attack + Pursuit)
-Fast Set up Sweeper = Gyarados - When I am able to set him up with one/two DDs, he's beast. Only works when I predict correctly - which is 70/30
-Scarfing Hard Hitting Beast = Hydreigon. Basicly an all-out fast+strong combo, even though it normally only stays in for a couple of turns max., since it has a ton of counters. He's pretty awesome though. (Draco Meteor + Fire Blast + Dark Pulse + Stone Edge)
-Slow Set Up Bulky Sweeper = Eelektross (physical, with Wild Volt and Thrash... I love normal wrecking attacks, and with the high attack it gets, it's plummels through a team with at least a coil or two. Being slow is his main flaw, but he can take most hits)
-Support/Wall = Blissey (Heal Bell + Wish + Flamethrower/Hyper Beam (she's hardcore) + Thunder Wave - for those who aren't affected by Toxic Spikes)

I'll post it with more detail a bit later, since I'm not at home and I don't have their team status (also not sure about some of the things mentioned, like Hydreigon in general, since I only remember having a scarf and the only scarfs in the box that make sense here are him and Darmanitan, but I also remember having 3 physical attackers and 1 special). But I was thinking about getting a Milotic instead of Gyarados, since the 4x weakness to electric bugs me incase one shows up (even though grass being neutral is useful), and because setting up DDs the way he does takes a ton of health away, and sometimes kills, being easy bait for the ever present Scizor (almost OHKO'd after SR damage). Milotic is also bulky as all hell, even without rain present.

What also worries me is me being mainly physical (like I said, attackers = 3 physical and 1 special).
Please no suggestions of Ferrothorn.

I haven't played with this team much though, since before I was trying out Infernape one more time. OHKO's Gliscor after one Overheat, which is awesome.

Thank you for your time, I guess x)

Alright, before I start, this is better off as a RMT in a new thread. However, I'll take the time to go over this team with you anyways. Swellow absolutely wants U-Turn over Pursuit. U-Turn is an amazing attack and allows you to scout the opponent's playstyle and their switch in. It gains you momentum and lets you take control of the match. Hydreigon wants U-turn as well, this forms a deadly U-Turn core between Swellow and Hydreigon, gaining you much momentum. Elektross wants Dragon Tail over Thrash. This is because Elektross does not gain STAB on Thrash and is forced to be confused after using it; Outrage is only a viable move because dragon types gets STAB and there is only ONE resist against it. On Blissey, make sure to use flamethrower and NOT hyper beam. Hyper beam is a terrible move in competitve play; it locks you in the field while the opponent can do whatever they want. Run protect in the last slot, and maybe try out toxic over thunder wave.

Thank you for coming by and to both of you, have a nice day!

[Forever]

Has anyone else faced the issue of overpredicting in like every battle? I feel like all I ever do is overpredict which works out really bad for me. For example, wifi lets me see a team, see Politoed, send out Virizion. Assume they wouldn't keep it in on Virizion because it can basically 2HKO it, use Stone Edge as there are flying types @ preview, nope, keep it in, do bad... etc.

And when I assume people will start off with Rotom-W (probably trick, assuming that deoxys-s will be screens but haha it isn't), they... don't. And yet a great portion of others do. Idk I should just assume nobody is going to play strategically or something, 'cause it's pretty annoying to lose batltes in general from overpredicting that I'd otherwise have won lol.

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Forever

Has anyone else faced the issue of overpredicting in like every battle? I feel like all I ever do is overpredict which works out really bad for me. For example, wifi lets me see a team, see Politoed, send out Virizion. Assume they wouldn't keep it in on Virizion because it can basically 2HKO it, use Stone Edge as there are flying types @ preview, nope, keep it in, do bad... etc.

And when I assume people will start off with Rotom-W (probably trick, assuming that deoxys-s will be screens but haha it isn't), they... don't. And yet a great portion of others do. Idk I should just assume nobody is going to play strategically or something, 'cause it's pretty annoying to lose batltes in general from overpredicting that I'd otherwise have won lol.

Yeah, I did. Prediction is an art, really - especially predicting on the ladder. You can't just assume your opponent will be a high-calibre opponent to begin with. More often than not, the first few turns are best spent by going with the safest move and scouting how your opponent plays and responds to your move. From there you can identify their playstyle and start to plan your predictions accordingly. It's just a learn-by-experience thing; if you find yourself overpredicting all the time, just try to focus on making the safe move unless the prediction is absolutely vital to winning the game. It's better to play it safe and make slow strides rather than go balls to the wall turn one and risk losing the whole match.

edit: also oh my goodness this is a fabulous resource

http://www.honko.freehosting.com/coverage_calc.html

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Vrai

Yeah, I did. Prediction is an art, really - especially predicting on the ladder. You can't just assume your opponent will be a high-calibre opponent to begin with. More often than not, the first few turns are best spent by going with the safest move and scouting how your opponent plays and responds to your move. From there you can identify their playstyle and start to plan your predictions accordingly. It's just a learn-by-experience thing; if you find yourself overpredicting all the time, just try to focus on making the safe move unless the prediction is absolutely vital to winning the game. It's better to play it safe and make slow strides rather than go balls to the wall turn one and risk losing the whole match.

edit: also oh my goodness this is a fabulous resource

http://www.honko.freehosting.com/coverage_calc.html

It'd probably be easier for me if I did turn off wifi, since without wifi, Deoxys-S should be able to cover the most common leads without me overpredicting in regards to who the opponent will start off with, but yeah I'll try the safest and see if people don't expect that :x

That is amazing and going to be so useful! How'd you find it?