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  #1126    
Old October 14th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Katholic Nun's Avatar
Katholic Nun
of the Khristian Kollection
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
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This is a very good link! Personally my favourite part is this:

Quote:
Someone Made Him Gay
Studies have shown that being gay is not directly related to one's environment. For instance, many mothers in retrospect regret being too close to their sons, thinking that is what "made" them gay. However, their relationship with their child had little to do with them being gay. Homosexuals are born, not made. Research continues in an effort to find the source of homosexuality, but blaming oneself or environment is not the answer.
I've seen so many parents blame themselves for their kids being gay. Not only is this annoying in the sense that it could not possibly be true, but also in the sense that if they blame themselves, they are in essence implying that their child being gay is a situation that requires blame. That has always bothered me.
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  #1127    
Old October 14th, 2011, 04:55 PM
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deoxys121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
I've seen so many parents blame themselves for their kids being gay. Not only is this annoying in the sense that it could not possibly be true, but also in the sense that if they blame themselves, they are in essence implying that their child being gay is a situation that requires blame. That has always bothered me.
Well said! People who don't think gays should adopt often say "The kids will turn gay!" There are two things wrong with that: 1. People are born with their sexual orientation. 2. Even if it did make them gay, what's wrong with that? NOTHING!
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  #1128    
Old October 14th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Also, is it wrong that I watched that video and all I could think about was how disappointed I was that that guy wasn't gay?
Actually, me too. xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys121 View Post

Well said! People who don't think gays should adopt often say "The kids will turn gay!" There are two things wrong with that: 1. People are born with their sexual orientation. 2. Even if it did make them gay, what's wrong with that? NOTHING!
My favourite argument against this is "oh yeah, because straight parents always have straight kids, right?!"
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


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  #1129    
Old October 14th, 2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
I've seen so many parents blame themselves for their kids being gay. Not only is this annoying in the sense that it could not possibly be true, but also in the sense that if they blame themselves, they are in essence implying that their child being gay is a situation that requires blame. That has always bothered me.
My mom said this exact thing to me when I told her, actually. "It's my fault for raising you wrong."


Offtopic:
Spoiler:
Off topic, but I actually just made a video game, that is quite "Fruity", so I thought I'd post it here.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/581553
(Yes that was a horrible joke, someone slap me.)
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  #1130    
Old October 15th, 2011, 02:40 AM
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Well don't leave the Bis out of the fun...there are myths about us too! x3

http://gaylife.about.com/od/bisexual/a/biman.htm

But yeah...it's totally wrong for blame to be placed when someone comes out. It doesn't matter if they were born that way or not...more often than not, they didn't choose to be that way. I certainly didn't choose to be Bi on a whim. I spent most of my adolescence using sheer force of will to FORCE myself to lean straight. I still catch myself doing it and end up having to slap myself for it...though I don't get angry for stopping myself if I know the person is straight.

I DO understand a phobic person's feelings, to a certain degree, because I spent so much time denying what I was. But phobia has to stop at a certain point, and prejudice begins. I've always reassured people who took me as gay that "No, I'm not gay, I'm bi...and I'm not the kind who hits on straight people." I don't even hit on people I don't know well! I'm far too shy anyway. xD
I'm not the type who hangs out anywhere social, just to pick up partners. I'd rather that I get to know someone naturally, by legitimately crossing paths with them...not because I camped out in their favorite bar just so I could drum up an excuse to talk to them and waste my cheesy, socially awkward pickup lines on someone who would likely turn out straight anyway. XD

My problem lies in the fact that I live, currently, in a tiny central Texas town where I go to college. Now I know I might have a little less of a tough time in my hometown with it, because it's bigger, but that's not the point. The point, and therefore the real problem is that this is such a small community, is that a small community can be just as overwhelmingly accepting and accepting as they can be hostile. If more swing to hostility, it could become a problem. :<

Of course I've already come out to a few people...but those are folks I can trust not to blab it everywhere. I don't see a need to tell someone I'm bi unless I have a crush on them or begin to see them as more than just a friend.
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Last edited by Melody; October 15th, 2011 at 02:45 AM.
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  #1131    
Old October 15th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Ineffable~'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachy View Post
Well don't leave the Bis out of the fun...there are myths about us too! x3

http://gaylife.about.com/od/bisexual/a/biman.htm
There are like ten times more about trans people. xD
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/07/you_...ranssexual.php
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


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  #1132    
Old October 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

There are like ten times more about trans people. xD
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/07/you_...ranssexual.php
Ugh. That list. I hate both that there isn't accurate enough language to explain so many concepts to people simply and make things easy for them to understand what isn't this and what is that, but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary to explain anything at all.
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  #1133    
Old October 16th, 2011, 07:52 AM
Ineffable~'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Ugh. That list. I hate both that there isn't accurate enough language to explain so many concepts to people simply and make things easy for them to understand what isn't this and what is that, but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary to explain anything at all.
Yeah, I feel exactly the same way since some people are just soooo annoying about it.
It certainly doesn't help that there's actually disagreement within the community, but I guess you kind of see that in any community. >.>
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


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  #1134    
Old October 16th, 2011, 11:51 AM
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FreakyLocz14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way since some people are just soooo annoying about it.
It certainly doesn't help that there's actually disagreement within the community, but I guess you kind of see that in any community. >.>
You'd have to ask yourself if LGBT is actually a cohesive community to begin with, or is the sense of community something people imagine to give themselves a sense of belonging?
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  #1135    
Old October 16th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Ineffable~'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
You'd have to ask yourself if LGBT is actually a cohesive community to begin with, or is the sense of community something people imagine to give themselves a sense of belonging?
I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


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  #1136    
Old October 16th, 2011, 12:23 PM
-Jared-'s Avatar
-Jared-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above, and would like to add that one of the most important parts of a community is that members have that "sense of community." And the fact that people believe there is an LGBT community is proof that the community exists. We want to have people we can talk to and rely on, so we gather, whether online or in real life, and that is what makes the community.
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  #1137    
Old October 16th, 2011, 12:31 PM
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FreakyLocz14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
I see some evidence to the contrary regularly. Just one example that you brought up is the nonacceptance of transsexuals by homosexuals and bisexuals. There is also an internal fight between "masculine" and feminine" and whether one side should be looked down upon with disdain for furthering negative stereotypes.
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  #1138    
Old October 16th, 2011, 04:28 PM
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Well I'm genderfluid, and so this can mean I can be more masculine one moment and more feminine the next...and I can remember how violently some people right here on PC reacted when I decided to just switch to female and stick with that a while. :<

So I'm not saying you're wrong Freaky, but there's something you're missing too....and that's probably important. The internal battle doesn't have anything to do with it. It's how others view it.
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  #1139    
Old October 16th, 2011, 04:50 PM
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2+2=5
 
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Is this group still taking in people?
If so then I would like to join, me not seeing a sign-up form.
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  #1140    
Old October 16th, 2011, 05:16 PM
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used Bone Club...?
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We're always accepting new people, Physco. :] There's no real sign-up form to speak of, you kinda just... start posting here~

Aaaand I do believe there is a community to speak of when it comes to us LGBT. We all have similar wants for the society we live in, similar histories, and we can certainly all relate. There's going to be discrepancy in any community. There were discrepancies in the civil rights movement if you read up on your history; a lot of it. Doesn't mean there wasn't a profound community that formed said movement. I like to think that because there are these conflict of opinions in the LGBT community that we're even more a community. Just means we're that much more passionate about our identities.

If that's confusing, I apologize... I've had little sleep. :D
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  #1141    
Old October 16th, 2011, 09:52 PM
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vimeo.com/67501143
 
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I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?


Quote:
Well I'm genderfluid, and so this can mean I can be more masculine one moment and more feminine the next...and I can remember how violently some people right here on PC reacted when I decided to just switch to female and stick with that a while. :<
Actually you claimed that a female entity/ person lived inside of you and that we (the rest of the community) weren't allowed to address you by your regular name (the name on your birth certificate) nor your username because "she was coming out and taking over." You would refuse to explain the reason for this and ridicule others for not understanding why they couldn't call you by the name they had used for years. It wasn't mostly violent, but many people felt you were disregarding and making fun of people with an actual identity crisis or split personalities- they felt you were mocking them. That's why many got frustrated at you, and yes some may have attacked you.. but it wasn't just for "genderbending." I don't appreciate that you are omitting the details to make the community look bad when you were just as guilty as some of them were. As you can see by this thread, there are many members here that are wholly supportive of changing gender roles- especially if it isn't just for an act like some genderbending members around here.
I know for a fact I personally tried very hard to understand you- and I did raise many questions for you that were probably uncomfortable through PM- but I wasn't from your world and those were questions I indeed had and were very valid, in my opinion. However, you just blocked me.
I don't mean to have called you out, but I felt I needed to clarify my perspective of the situation.
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Last edited by Kura; October 16th, 2011 at 10:09 PM.
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  #1142    
Old October 16th, 2011, 09:58 PM
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Jude Mathis
[ いかないで。 ]
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Oh god.

UUUH.. it's hard for me to say because my best friend was totally on board with whatever part of the LGBT group I was in. xD; It's hard for me to try to think otherwise, because we've said that likely nothing will break our friendship. This is gonna take some brain powah.

Hypothetically, if we couldn't work through it, then something that big.. I'd think that we'd both want it to work out. Though, something like that would be too hard to ignore, so our friendship would likely break I suppose? I guess so.. I mean, I can't think of any other way if neither of us could change how we felt. Granted, plenty of LGBT haters change their views a bit when someone close comes out to them, but you said "What if they unwilling to waver", sooooo yeah.. can't see that friendship lasting. It'd suck, but there's a point where if they can't accept who are you, then life moves on.
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  #1143    
Old October 16th, 2011, 10:01 PM
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FreakyLocz14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kura View Post
I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?
I would still be friends with them as long they continued to treat me with respect (if I was bi/les). Differences of opinion are no reason to unfriend a person. You have to deal with people with differing viewpoints all the time in life. We would just have to agree to disagree.
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  #1144    
Old October 16th, 2011, 10:43 PM
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TornZero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kura View Post
I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?
I don't think the matter would come up too much except with relationships (though relationship privacy is something I and my friend should respect), so we wouldn't really have to bother with being conscious about their hatred. However, if they expressed their dislike of the LGBT community more often (if they did at all before) after the coming out, then they have a serious problem. (They likely would start referencing me in their talks of immorality or something.) I would just plain cut out contact with them until they can get over it enough to respect me like they used to.
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  #1145    
Old October 16th, 2011, 11:18 PM
Katholic Nun's Avatar
Katholic Nun
of the Khristian Kollection
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Welcome to our newest member, Physco!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kura
I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?
I would end the friendship. It would be hard, absolutely, but the friendship would be forever changed by the revelation even if the friend managed not to let your sexuality get in the way of their feelings for you as a person. A person is not truly a friend if they don't accept every part of you, and if they are unwilling then there are people out there who will. Who needs a bigot? Nobody, they have no place in society.



Also,



For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

/fanboy
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Last edited by Katholic Nun; October 16th, 2011 at 11:27 PM.
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  #1146    
Old October 17th, 2011, 06:30 AM
-Jared-'s Avatar
-Jared-
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On the topic at hand, I kinda have a family member who I worry will be like this upon me coming out. She is my aunt, and she is always praising e for being such a good kid, so caring, blah blah blah, that I really fear what she will think when I come out, considering she is a very fundamentalist Christian. :| SO, yeah, I kinda understand how it would feel to be in that situation. And if it were a best friend instead of a family member, I would ask them, "Hey, are you willing to still be friends and work this out?" If he/she said yes, then I would remain friends. If they said no, they couldn't accept it at all, I would probably just leave them alone so they wouldn't have to deal with me. :<



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post

Also,



For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

/fanboy
:0 Ummm, yeah. That is.....niiiice. xD And on a more serious note, I am glad he decided that he wanted to do this in response to Jamie Rodemeyer's death. It makes it more like a tribute to him, I guess. ^__^
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  #1147    
Old October 17th, 2011, 06:39 AM
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~
DAT SNARKITUDE
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Age: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kura View Post
I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?
-Takes a piece of paper and tears it into two pieces-
That's what I would do. If someone doesn't accept every part of me, they don't really love me. So I don't tolerate people like that. :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
On the topic at hand, I kinda have a family member who I worry will be like this upon me coming out. She is my aunt, and she is always praising e for being such a good kid, so caring, blah blah blah, that I really fear what she will think when I come out, considering she is a very fundamentalist Christian. :|
Same, only mine is my grandmother, and she's less religious than she is old and racist.

Except I really wouldn't have a problem with turning my back on her in a moment if she were intolerant like that. Yay for no conscience! :D


Oh, and that's good about Zachary Quinto coming out. :3
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


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  #1148    
Old October 17th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Esper's Avatar
Esper
 
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What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

What would you do?
I really don't know. I'd likely be angry at them and stop talking to them for a while and hope that they could start to change their views after realizing that their best friend was part of the LGBT community. I know I couldn't be friends with someone with that kind of hatred.

And speaking of the community, I personally don't feel much of a sense of one. All I've ever gotten from random queer people is a kind of "Oh, you are? Okay." Acceptance, of course, but nothing more. I'm still a stranger to them like they're strangers to me. I have my friends who are gay and there's a support group where I sort of know some of the people, but outside that there's no "community" I see except the kind of commercialized community you get at pride events and the like.
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  #1149    
Old October 17th, 2011, 01:23 PM
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Kura
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Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
I would end the friendship. It would be hard, absolutely, but the friendship would be forever changed by the revelation even if the friend managed not to let your sexuality get in the way of their feelings for you as a person. Who needs a bigot? Nobody, they have no place in society.
Who says they're a "bigot?" If they never verbally express their views nor show any physical hatred or actions of discrimination towards the Gay Community then it's just simply a strong belief. I said that the hypothetical friend had a SECRET hate for LGBT, but that doesn't mean they would hate you as a person, or your choice to come out. What if all they hated was the over-sexualization of it all because of personal beliefs? For example, the whole "HEY MAN-NIPPLE BANNER! A hot celeb is available!" that you did?
Would you be willing to cut that out when you're around them, or do you still hold true the "I am myself and no one's going to restrict me. They should love all of me" view and drop them?



I dunno.. I just feel that there's too much hate going on. Just because they're not in the whole LGBT thing doesn't mean that LGBT's should hate them and call them names for not supporting them. Especially if those said people never did anything to harm the LGBT community- and it's just personal views that wouldn't get voiced.

Those are my thoughts, you're free to disagree.
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Last edited by Kura; October 17th, 2011 at 01:37 PM.
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  #1150    
Old October 17th, 2011, 02:12 PM
Akarui
 
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Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post


Also,



For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

/fanboy
Honestly, it seems like he's been gay all this time. I've never gotten a straight vibe from him. Nice to know though. I used to obsess over Zachary when he was on Heroes. xD
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