[Gen V] Which Team Works Better?

[PokeTerra2011]

I'm debating on which team should I use and I would like advice from my fellow pokemon community members. This team is for both in-game and competitive.

Team #1
Samurott
@Choice Specs
~Modest
-Surf -Surf
-Scald/Hydro Pump
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam/Blizzard

Infernape
@Expert Belt
~Naive
-Grass Knot
-Flamethrower
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge

Electivire
@Expert Belt
~Mild
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower
-Wild Charge

Garchomp
@Choice Band
~Adamant
-Outrage
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw

Salamence
@Life Orb
~Mild
-Dragon Claw
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower

Tyranitar
@Choice Scarf
~Jolly
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Earthquake
-Brick Break

Team#2
Samurott
@Choice Scarf
~Modest
-Surf
-Scald/Hydro Pump
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam/Blizzard

Infernape
@Expert Belt
~Naive
-Grass Knot
-Flamethrower
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge

Electivire
@Expert Belt
~Mild
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower
-Wild Charge

Staraptor
@Choice Band/Sharp Beak
~Adamant
-Return/Double Edge
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Close Combat

Dragonite - Multiscale
@Life Orb
~Mild
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower

Zoroark
@Choice Specs
~Timid
-Grass Knot
-Dark Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Flamethrower

I'd appreciate your input to those who reply.
If you think mixing the teams is best or changing pokemon all together, that input is all accepted.

[Drakio]

They are both very great team, each pokemon has a move to make for it's own weakness witch is good for wireless play because you can shift before the battle. I say the call is up to you, the teams are about the same, and they are both pretty solid but if I had to pick I would say team 1.

[PokeTerra2011]

Thanks. I really like team 1 too. I was thinking about switching Salamence and Dragonite because Dragonite has Multiscale which would increase his bulk even more and I EV trained Dragonite more in special attack than Salamence. It's a weird toss up. Salamence is faster and has Intimidate but Dragonite has better EVs in S.Att, Multiscale. It's kinda a hard choice. Plus Garchomp is my favorite dragon so not having him on my team would be weird. It's a tie between my original favorite Dragonite and my 3rd gen favorite Salamence. The main reason Zoroark seems to work on my team to me is because his set would allow him to pass for Infernape save for Dark Pulse. Both take sandstorm damage, both are neutral to Stealth Rocks and 3/4 of his moves are ones you'd always or occasionally would see on an Infernape set of some kind. Tyranitar setting up Sandstorm for Garchomp is also very nice, but annoying at the same time with recoil moves like Wild Charge and Life Orb.

[XEL]

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

Garchomp
@Choice Band
~Adamant
-Outrage
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw

If you plan to play competitively, Garchomp is in the Uber tier. You can play in that tier if you want to play Garchomp, but then the rest of your team is outclassed.

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

Salamence
@Life Orb
~Mild
-Dragon Claw
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Flamethrower

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

I was thinking about switching Salamence and Dragonite because Dragonite has Multiscale which would increase his bulk even more and I EV trained Dragonite more in special attack than Salamence.

This depends on what Salamence's EVs are. Salamence has higher SpA than Dragonite. If you are willing though, I suggest breeding them for Physical versions as both have higher Atk stats than SpA stats.

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by XEL

If you plan to play competitively, Garchomp is in the Uber tier. You can play in that tier if you want to play Garchomp, but then the rest of your team is outclassed.



This depends on what Salamence's EVs are. Salamence has higher SpA than Dragonite. If you are willing though, I suggest breeding them for Physical versions as both have higher Atk stats than SpA stats.

For competitive battiling within the tiers, I have another team set up for the Ubers with Garchomp apart of that. I meant for online/wireless competitive battles. I also use this team for in-game battling. The idea for my team is to have at least one special sweeper, a couple of mixed sweepers or more, and some physical ones. Garchomp's physical and decimates with outrage but he isn't very good mixed where MixedMence and MixedNite thrive. I throw them out to catch my opponent off-guard who are expecting either (Modest/Timid) or (Adamant/Jolly) and they end up being able to do a lot of damage in both. Salamence has EVs in S.Att as well, but Dragonite has been trained much better in S.Att overall. I'm not sure if I'm going to combine the two teams in some way or if I should go for team #1 or team #2.

[XEL]

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

For competitive battiling within the tiers, I have another team set up for the Ubers with Garchomp apart of that. I meant for online/wireless competitive battles. I also use this team for in-game battling. The idea for my team is to have at least one special sweeper, a couple of mixed sweepers or more, and some physical ones. Garchomp's physical and decimates with outrage but he isn't very good mixed where MixedMence and MixedNite thrive. I throw them out to catch my opponent off-guard who are expecting either (Modest/Timid) or (Adamant/Jolly) and they end up being able to do a lot of damage in both. Salamence has EVs in S.Att as well, but Dragonite has been trained much better in S.Att overall. I'm not sure if I'm going to combine the two teams in some way or if I should go for team #1 or team #2.

Oh my bad. I'm just returning to the game after an 11 month absence. I wasn't aware they had different rules, I guess, for wifi and I guess PO? haha

Anyways since I don't know the differences, I can't say anything about Garchomp.

I will say that if you opt to combine the two teams, you probably wouldn't want to put both Dragonite and Salamence on it. Unless you're creating a Dragon-team haha

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by XEL

Oh my bad. I'm just returning to the game after an 11 month absence. I wasn't aware they had different rules, I guess, for wifi and I guess PO? haha

Anyways since I don't know the differences, I can't say anything about Garchomp.

I will say that if you opt to combine the two teams, you probably wouldn't want to put both Dragonite and Salamence on it. Unless you're creating a Dragon-team haha

Yea, MixNite and MixMence are pointless to have on the same team and they serve the same purpose. The main difference is that MixMence is faster and possibly can hit harder, but MixNite is bulkier and has Multiscale to reduce all damage it takes by 50% when it's at full hp. So even being slower, he can still come back and destroy. Plus i wouldn't have dragonite and tyranitar on the same team becuz sandstorm negates the effect of Multiscale. I was thinking like having Dragonite, garchomp, zoroark or just using Team #1/2 depending on which one worked out better overall.

[Forever]

Generally I'd probably pick the first team;

Since you want a special Samurott, personally I think scald > surf and hydro pump can stand alone, mainly because of scald having a burn chance and if you use it over and over with the specs, it's bound to eventually burn something.

Either way, boltbeam Starmie (or any other boltbeam user or even ice/water in general, since water types often carry ice beam) is generally going to hurt your team, while I see you have grass knot on certain Pokemon, I think to be able to take rain-based teams and risk keeping Infernape in, you could make use of a grass type, considering this is wifi, you could use ferrothorn, which works well with sand teams.

But! Personally I'd replace Samurott/Electivire, there's a lot more Pokemon that can fill those roles better, such as Vaporeon and Rotom-W, but really it's up to you and whether you think you can somehow take the harder-to-take water Pokemon. :x

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by Forever

Generally I'd probably pick the first team;

Since you want a special Samurott, personally I think scald > surf and hydro pump can stand alone, mainly because of scald having a burn chance and if you use it over and over with the specs, it's bound to eventually burn something.

Either way, boltbeam Starmie (or any other boltbeam user or even ice/water in general, since water types often carry ice beam) is generally going to hurt your team, while I see you have grass knot on certain Pokemon, I think to be able to take rain-based teams and risk keeping Infernape in, you could make use of a grass type, considering this is wifi, you could use ferrothorn, which works well with sand teams.

But! Personally I'd replace Samurott/Electivire, there's a lot more Pokemon that can fill those roles better, such as Vaporeon and Rotom-W, but really it's up to you and whether you think you can somehow take the harder-to-take water Pokemon. :x

Hmm....how about something like...Boltbeam Starmie (Specs) running Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump, Psyshock/Psychic, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt to replace Samurott (Psyshock to handle Blissey)? Also, I use Electivire as a mixed sweeper that protects my water types from electric attacks and then gains a speed boost to start his own sweeping. The issue I have is with Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp. Garchomp is my favorite and my preferred, but I also like Dragonite (Multiscale) and Salamence as mixed threats to throw off my opponents. Plus Garchomp to me, should be used with Tyranitar for Sandstorm although Sandstorm is kinda annoying for the rest of "non-Sandstorm" team. Infernape is my favorite Fire pokemon and Fire poke of choice whom I'd only replace with Speed Boost Blaziken. If I revised some of my team it would be something like Infernape, Boltbeam Starmie (Specs), Electivire, Garchomp, Tyranitar and one other good team mate that would fit on this team. Could be Dragonite/Salamence/Staraptor/or another poke that would fit.

[Forever]

You could go with Gliscor - it'd benefit from sand, can't be hit by ground which three of your Pokemon are weak to, as well as can't be hit by electric. While HP ice could be an issue, the chances of Pokemon having HP ice in wifi is really unlikely, so it should be pretty safe to switch into, while Garchomp you'd still use HP with anyway, and it'd still otherwise be pretty useless against ground types while Gliscor has ice fang. Starmie could also work, but again, losing HP, and in sand with no recovery move you really don't want it to lose unnecessary HP.

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by Forever

You could go with Gliscor - it'd benefit from sand, can't be hit by ground which three of your Pokemon are weak to, as well as can't be hit by electric. While HP ice could be an issue, the chances of Pokemon having HP ice in wifi is really unlikely, so it should be pretty safe to switch into, while Garchomp you'd still use HP with anyway, and it'd still otherwise be pretty useless against ground types while Gliscor has ice fang. Starmie could also work, but again, losing HP, and in sand with no recovery move you really don't want it to lose unnecessary HP.

Thanks I really appreciate your advice as well as the advice of everyone else who posted here. I'm actually liking the idea of a Gliscor on my team and replacing ol' faithful starter Samurott with something that packs more power and also has the speed to back up that power. I'm trynna decide between Hyper Cutter Gliscor, Sand Veil Gliscor, and Poison Heal Gliscor.

[Forever]

Sand veil / poison heal are definitely the most viable out of the three, while hyper cutter only would really help against things with Intimidate (iirc it'd work with that, but otherwise, nothing else really decreases attack because... there's no point, lol). imo, sand veil would really be the best fit for you - while poison heal is fun to use and all, it's more suited to a stall team rather than a sand team imo while sand veil really loves sand and with boosted evasion it gives you more of a chance to set up with SD, removing the purpose of hyper cutter.

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by Forever

Sand veil / poison heal are definitely the most viable out of the three, while hyper cutter only would really help against things with Intimidate (iirc it'd work with that, but otherwise, nothing else really decreases attack because... there's no point, lol). imo, sand veil would really be the best fit for you - while poison heal is fun to use and all, it's more suited to a stall team rather than a sand team imo while sand veil really loves sand and with boosted evasion it gives you more of a chance to set up with SD, removing the purpose of hyper cutter.

Hmm...I've altered my team quite a bit. I'm planning on going for Modest BoltBeam Starmie (Specs), Adamant Intimidate Staraptor (CS), Adamant Technician Scizor (CB), Naive MixApe Infernape (Expert Belt/Life Orb), Mild Multiscale MixNite Dragonite (Leftovers/Life Orb), Mild Physical Motor Drive MixVire Electivire (Expert Belt). I "abandoned" my 5th gen starter for a better water pokemon in Starmie. Electivire's Motor Drive gives my team electricity immunity and protects both Staraptor and Starmie. Electivire himself is protected by having dragonite and staraptor to switch in on earthquakes, ice is resisted by infernape, starmie, and scizor. Scizor's only weakness, fire, is resisted by Infernape and Dragonite. Infernape, like Electivire, is protected from earth quake by both Dragonite and Staraptor and protected from water attacks by Dragonite/Starmie. Dark/Bug type moves are resisted by various members of my team. They all seem to compliment each other.

One issue i have is that I'm not sure if Scizor needs CB or CS more and if I should give Infernape expert belt or life orb vs Dragonite using life orb since I only have one.I have two mixed set pokemon to throw my opponent off on what kind of dragonite/infernape it could be and switch up when needed.

Any1 have any ideas on this issue and whether this team is better?

[Forever]

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

Hmm...I've altered my team quite a bit. I'm planning on going for Modest BoltBeam Starmie (Specs), Adamant Intimidate Staraptor (CS), Adamant Technician Scizor (CB), Naive MixApe Infernape (Expert Belt/Life Orb), Mild Multiscale MixNite Dragonite (Leftovers/Life Orb), Mild Physical Motor Drive MixVire Electivire (Expert Belt). I "abandoned" my 5th gen starter for a better water pokemon in Starmie. Electivire's Motor Drive gives my team electricity immunity and protects both Staraptor and Starmie. Electivire himself is protected by having dragonite and staraptor to switch in on earthquakes, ice is resisted by infernape, starmie, and scizor. Scizor's only weakness, fire, is resisted by Infernape and Dragonite. Infernape, like Electivire, is protected from earth quake by both Dragonite and Staraptor and protected from water attacks by Dragonite/Starmie. Dark/Bug type moves are resisted by various members of my team. They all seem to compliment each other.

One issue i have is that I'm not sure if Scizor needs CB or CS more and if I should give Infernape expert belt or life orb vs Dragonite using life orb since I only have one.I have two mixed set pokemon to throw my opponent off on what kind of dragonite/infernape it could be and switch up when needed.

Any1 have any ideas on this issue and whether this team is better?

Oh wait I didn't comment on the second team, yeah Dragonite could be changed up - generally its Life Orb set is completely different to what you've got (and the fact that you can't use multiscale on the life orb set due to superpower kinda makes it less appealing tbh). Since you want power, you could always choose the CB set :

Dragonite@Choice Band
Multiscale
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw / Waterfall
- ExtremeSpeed

Outrage as the stronger STAB, dragon claw as the less-powerful-but-not-locking-in-STAB, waterfall for power in rain which is common on PO at least, idk about wifi, extremespeed for priority (and isn't that weak either so can effectively kill things you'd otherwise be outsped by) and fire punch to kill off steels after a few hits.

As for Scizor, both sets can work though I generally prefer the power of CB since bullet punch as a whole generally hurts the opponent due to priority and if you're locked into bullet punch, opponents will definitely be afraid to switch in unless they have a steel type etc.

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by Forever

Oh wait I didn't comment on the second team, yeah Dragonite could be changed up - generally its Life Orb set is completely different to what you've got (and the fact that you can't use multiscale on the life orb set due to superpower kinda makes it less appealing tbh). Since you want power, you could always choose the CB set :

Dragonite@Choice Band
Multiscale
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw / Waterfall
- ExtremeSpeed

Outrage as the stronger STAB, dragon claw as the less-powerful-but-not-locking-in-STAB, waterfall for power in rain which is common on PO at least, idk about wifi, extremespeed for priority (and isn't that weak either so can effectively kill things you'd otherwise be outsped by) and fire punch to kill off steels after a few hits.

As for Scizor, both sets can work though I generally prefer the power of CB since bullet punch as a whole generally hurts the opponent due to priority and if you're locked into bullet punch, opponents will definitely be afraid to switch in unless they have a steel type etc.

It's weird becuz on Smogon, the MixNite sets for 5th Gen Dragonite have him using Life Orb for damage which is counterproductive to Multiscale in my opinion. I really just want Dragonite to be a mixed attacker. Like for example, he can throw off a Draco meteor and u'll think he's special then he hits u with outrage. I'm curious if the revised team I mentioned including starmie is a pretty good set up (so I know if I should breed/EV train Starmie/Scizor or not).

[Forever]

Originally Posted by PokeTerra2011

It's weird becuz on Smogon, the MixNite sets for 5th Gen Dragonite have him using Life Orb for damage which is counterproductive to Multiscale in my opinion. I really just want Dragonite to be a mixed attacker. Like for example, he can throw off a Draco meteor and u'll think he's special then he hits u with outrage. I'm curious if the revised team I mentioned including starmie is a pretty good set up (so I know if I should breed/EV train Starmie/Scizor or not).

Well from your earlier posts I figured your purpose of Dragonite > Salamence was for Multiscale. :x Shouldn't you effectively go with MixMence in that case then - since more power?

Either way I can't see any issues straight off the bat but maybe someone else will.

[PokeTerra2011]

Originally Posted by Forever

Well from your earlier posts I figured your purpose of Dragonite > Salamence was for Multiscale. :x Shouldn't you effectively go with MixMence in that case then - since more power?

Either way I can't see any issues straight off the bat but maybe someone else will.

Yea, you're right. I'm using Dragonite becuz of Multiscale to help mitigate damage he may take. I'm kinda expecting him to get outsped so Multiscale will kick in then he can "HOPEFULLY destroy" what attacked him, but you are indeed right, that Salamence is better for overall more damage.

[PikachuGuy]

In Gen IV and Gen V, both Garchomp and Salamence are Ubers. You can probably still use them in an OU match, though. Personally, if I had the choice, I would run Garchomp as the Physical beast and Salamence as a mixed beast. Use Mence because he has more Sp. Attack as well as more Attack than Nite, and more speed. I like the idea on the BoltBeam Starmie, I am considering running one. I'll post the movesets (That I recommend) below.

I have a Chomp and I use the Swords Dance moveset, and let me tell ya, he hits hard and fast. Use a Jolly nature, because you'll have more speed than Adamant. Adamant will hit harder, but you'll be slower. I say Jolly, because you have your speed, and then you can increase your attack with a SD.

Chompy @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Jolly nature
EV's: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP

Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Fire Fang
Swords Dance

You could run Stone Edge over Fire Fang to hit things like Salamence and Nite, as well as bulky Ice types. And you could run Outrage over Dragon Claw, if you feel the extra power is needed. But from my experience, Dragon Claw will do just fine, and it's more reliable.

I see you want to run a MixedMence, use something like this

MixedMence @ Leftovers
Naive nature
EV's: 252 Speed, 126 Attack, 126 Sp. Attack, 6 HP

Outrage
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Draco Meteor

I figure you first use Draco Meteor for some damage, then your foe will think it's a special mence, and he'll probably switch to a special wall or something, then you can strike with Physical attacks.

Starmie is an absolute beast to use, with it's very respectable speed and great Sp. Attack, he can really put the pain and pressure on Dragons.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid nature
EV's: 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack, 6 Sp. Defense

Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Recover

You could run Hydro Pump over Surf, but it's a lot less reliable and has a lot less PP.

Side notes: You could run Dragonite because of it's bulk and massive Attack, actually my favorite Dragon out of all. I have one, and it is a freakin beast. If you want to run a Nite, here's a good set that I use personally, and it's great.

Physical Nite @ Leftovers
Adamant nature --- Jolly would work great too
EV's: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP

Outrage
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Earthquake

Other options include: Roost for healing, Dragon Claw for less power and more reliability, Extreme Speed for revenge kills, and Super Power for the Rock and Ice types (and Tyranitar).