Research: The 4th gen class split in 3rd gen

[treeckopa]

Can this method work on Hidden Power, so that Hidden Power is always Special no matter which type it is?

[JJames19119]

I believe so, since it no longer checks the type but the move in specific for what classification it uses.

[Leafbarrett]

Ohai thar. Lookie what I got.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ztqiczuu654osep
Physical/special split for Emerald, complete with move changes. Please ignore the changed Ralts family sprites, as I was silly and forgot to use a completely fresh ROM for the edits, ahurrhurr.
EDIT: Oh ffs. Special attacks work fine, but physical attacks are counted as status attacks, and do pathetic damage. I know I set physical attacks to 00 like I was supposed to... Didn't someone else have this problem?
EDIT2: I patched the engine by itself (as in, not my changed one) into a perfectly fresh rom (meaning all attacks are considered physical, or should be) and everything does absolutely pathetic damage. I think it's an issue with the patch. And of course, neither of the people who would know what's going on- JJames or Darthatron- are anywhere to be found, because it'd be helpful if they could be contacted, therefore it can't happen.

[Gamer2020]

I should announce that the move editor in the new version of PGE has support for the class split. You can select whether you want the move to be special or physical.

[JJames19119]

Yeah, there is a weird glitch with Darthathon's patch. I can't explain it honestly. The split works properly for what I believe are moves with no effect? But any moves that DO have an effect and are physical all do utterly low damage. I can't say for sure since I've gotten moves with no effect still doing no damage. This only bothers physical moves; special moves work just fine. I didn't encounter this in my initial testing, weirdly enough.

ROMs are just very confusing to me now.

[Ongekibou]

Setting a move type to ??? does the same thing (low damage). Perhaps its related?

[DavidJCobb]

Originally Posted by Ongekibou

Setting a move type to ??? does the same thing (low damage). Perhaps its related?

If that's the case, then perhaps the low damage is the result of some sort of error checker/handler?

[Darthatron]

This what happens when you don't test things. :\ Sorry guys. I'll take a look at it some time soon.

[Ongekibou]

Originally Posted by DavidJCobb

If that's the case, then perhaps the low damage is the result of some sort of error checker/handler?

Well the ??? type is inbetween the physical types and special types. If you add another type, it defaults to Special. It's likely some crazy stuff in the original code that tells the game which types to make Physical that's screwing up the code.

[Leafbarrett]

Soooo... basically, nobody has any idea why this is happening. Sigh. So much for doing a Nuzlocke screenshot run of a DPSS Emerald...

Originally Posted by JJames19119

Yeah, there is a weird glitch with Darthathon's patch. I can't explain it honestly. The split works properly for what I believe are moves with no effect? But any moves that DO have an effect and are physical all do utterly low damage. I can't say for sure since I've gotten moves with no effect still doing no damage. This only bothers physical moves; special moves work just fine. I didn't encounter this in my initial testing, weirdly enough.

ROMs are just very confusing to me now.

Pound doesn't work either, so it's all physical moves.

[Krika]

Hang on. Could someone summarize what progress has been made with this? As best I can tell, there is a patch that implements the DPSS in Firered, and another that does it in Emerald, but that both are bugged. What exactly are the bugs in each of them? (Basically, is either in a usable condition to be plugged into a hack?)

[Agastya]

Originally Posted by Krika

Hang on. Could someone summarize what progress has been made with this? As best I can tell, there is a patch that implements the DPSS in Firered, and another that does it in Emerald, but that both are bugged. What exactly are the bugs in each of them? (Basically, is either in a usable condition to be plugged into a hack?)

The Fire Red one handles Special and Physical correctly, but if a Fire attack hits Flash Fire or an Electric attack hits Volt Absorb, the game crashes. I'm not sure about Water Absorb.

The Emerald one handles Special correctly, but Physical attacks don't work correctly and will all do 1~2 damage as if they were ???-type attacks. I think it doesn't have the Flash Fire issue.


FR is usable if you can avoid the ability clashes, and Emerald kind of.. isn't.

[Krika]

Alright, cool. That's helpful. Thanks

[Darthatron]

Sorry for the delay. This appears to fix the problem with my Emerald patch.

0804674E: 80 78
080695E8: 80 7A
08069A5A: 00 29
08069A5C: 00 D0
08069BC4: 02 2F
08069BC6: 00 DB
08069BCC: 01 28
08069BCE: 00 D0

Changes are highlighted.

Post here if something is still wrong. (Once again I didn't test it very much.)

[Jambo51]

Just came across something slightly disturbing. There's a second check in the code in FR after the known one, in the "special" part of the code, which is the cause of some of the bugs with the "cut down" versions of the code we have developed.

The bug was caused by the first check being correct for the new version, but the second being incorrect. This was why we were seeing 2 HP damage attacks in FR. This may also be the case in Emerald, though I haven't checked.

For the record, I changed it to branch off specifically for type 0x9 (???) but to execute normally for anything else. This fixed the bug immediately.

[ArmoredGuns]

Originally Posted by Darthatron

Sorry for the delay. This appears to fix the problem with my Emerald patch.

0804674E: 80 78
080695E8: 80 7A
08069A5A: 00 29
08069A5C: 00 D0
08069BC4: 02 2F
08069BC6: 00 DB
08069BCC: 01 28
08069BCE: 00 D0

Changes are highlighted.

Post here if something is still wrong. (Once again I didn't test it very much.)

Thank you very much. Will you update Attack Editor Pro so that now it includes the physical/special split? I'm looking forward to it!!

[Gamer2020]

Originally Posted by ArmoredGuns

Thank you very much. Will you update Attack Editor Pro so that now it includes the physical/special split? I'm looking forward to it!!

PGE supports the physical/special split.

[ArmoredGuns]

Originally Posted by Gamer2020

PGE supports the physical/special split.

Yes but I suppose it's the old version, since Darthatron posted the working code 5 days ago.

[Gamer2020]

Originally Posted by ArmoredGuns

Yes but I suppose it's the old version, since Darthatron posted the working code 5 days ago.

That doesn't make a difference.

[ArmoredGuns]

Originally Posted by Gamer2020

That doesn't make a difference.

I tested it and it doesn't work.

I changed Scratch to special, and Torchic does the same damage as if it were a physical move (after having edited torchic to have a 200 sp. attack base and a different ability).

I'm using emerald BTW.

[Darthatron]

Originally Posted by ArmoredGuns

Thank you very much. Will you update Attack Editor Pro so that now it includes the physical/special split? I'm looking forward to it!!

Nah... Probably never. I don't have the original source, and I don't really see it as vital since there are other editors.

[Chaos Rush]

Originally Posted by ArmoredGuns

I tested it and it doesn't work.

I changed Scratch to special, and Torchic does the same damage as if it were a physical move (after having edited torchic to have a 200 sp. attack base and a different ability).

I'm using emerald BTW.

That's because I'm assuming you haven't put in Darthatron's changes. Both the new code and the old code have the attacks read in the same format, hence why PGE works with both.

(ps I tested it on Ruby and it works, even with PGE. I figured out how to do it on Ruby by finding similar data to the offsets Darthatron posted, I made a thread in the Sideshowcase but it hasn't been approved yet, so PM me if you want my patch or think I'm lying or something)

[ArmoredGuns]

Well, can someone make an IPS patch for Emerald? Thanks!

[Gamer2020]

Originally Posted by ArmoredGuns

I tested it and it doesn't work.

I changed Scratch to special, and Torchic does the same damage as if it were a physical move (after having edited torchic to have a 200 sp. attack base and a different ability).

I'm using emerald BTW.

Well then you've done something wrong obviously since other people have gotten it to work.

[Agastya]

Darthatron's patch for Emerald works excellently, but there's a.. small, I guess, bug with Counter and Mirror Coat in it.

Counter won't reflect physical attacks if they're using a type that was formerly special, and Mirror Coat won't reflect special attacks if they're using a type that was formerly physical.

In the same vein if a special attack with a formerly physical type hits Counter, then it'll reflect it, and same with Mirror Coat/physicals with formerly special types.

Considering that Counter/Mirror Coat don't get used that often in the course of normal gameplay, it can be somewhat hard to notice, and probably only really a huge deal if you like using those moves often yourself.

I don't know if this happened with the JP versions of DPSS patches, because I saw Counter a grand total of zero times, so..