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  #26    
Old February 10th, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBowsinator View Post
Just to drop another check, heatran is an amazing one (especially the specially defensive sets)

At this point i'm not really gaining much support ._.
Volcarona used Hidden Power [Ground]!

It's super effective! Heatran fainted. Obviously this isn't common and Heatran is great otheriwse, but Heatran isn't a hard counter due to it losing to a certain set.
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  #28    
Old February 11th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flubbateios View Post
No, i just find it too easy to beat , from my experience, i've never really battled volcarona-crazy people
yea see, exactly the kind of argument that's unhelpful.

what makes it so easy to beat? how many times (roughly) have you even faced a volcarona? Is it predictable?

examples and proof would help in a discussion like this.

anywho

i've tried out the chesto rest set, it is undoubtedly one of the best sets to run...other than sub. As long as you keep sun up, watch out for SR and rock type moves, your guaranteed at least 2 pokemon down
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  #29    
Old February 11th, 2012, 01:56 PM
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the argument that you can simply eliminate all it's checks with stuff like dugtrio and wobbufet is retarded. You can do that for ANY pokemon. Say you think theres a superbroken pokemon, and the only counter are steel types; people would make the argument that you would just need a magenzone.

Whats to say that dragonite isn't broken after all it's checks are removed by stuff like wobbufet and dugtrio?

the argument that you can simply eliminate all it's checks with stuff like dugtrio and wobbufet is retarded. You can do that for ANY pokemon. Say you think theres a superbroken pokemon, and the only counter are steel types; people would make the argument that you would just need a magenzone.

Whats to say that dragonite isn't broken after all it's checks are removed by stuff like wobbufet and dugtrio?

People will use this argument to say that Pikachu can sweep any team if it's checks are gone, so it must be broken.
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Last edited by TheBowsinator; February 11th, 2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #30    
Old February 11th, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBowsinator View Post
the argument that you can simply eliminate all it's checks with stuff like dugtrio and wobbufet is retarded. You can do that for ANY pokemon. Say you think theres a superbroken pokemon, and the only counter are steel types; people would make the argument that you would just need a magenzone.

Whats to say that dragonite isn't broken after all it's checks are removed by stuff like wobbufet and dugtrio?

the argument that you can simply eliminate all it's checks with stuff like dugtrio and wobbufet is retarded. You can do that for ANY pokemon. Say you think theres a superbroken pokemon, and the only counter are steel types; people would make the argument that you would just need a magenzone.

Whats to say that dragonite isn't broken after all it's checks are removed by stuff like wobbufet and dugtrio?

People will use this argument to say that Pikachu can sweep any team if it's checks are gone, so it must be broken.
Because Dragonite has more checks than steels ? See: things like Quagsire, Shed Shell Skarm, priority etc. Volc has pretty much 4 in the sun. Big difference.
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Last edited by Dark Azelf; February 11th, 2012 at 02:23 PM.
  #31    
Old February 11th, 2012, 02:50 PM
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As mentioned above, the argument that Volcarona should be banned because the rest of your team can clear its checks is rather silly; that's no different than the also silly "if x is gone y sweeps" argument.

The counter argument to Volcarona's hazard+phazing trouble is a what-of scenario by using Wobuffett and Arena Trap Dugtrio. That not only applies what I said in the last paragraph, you're just stating reasons why Wobuffett and Dugtrio are broken...

The difference between Volcarona and Ho-oh is that not only is Volcarona weak to Stealth Rocks, but it's also weak to spikes and toxic spikes. If Volcarona switches into SR and 3 layers of spikes, that's 75% of its health gone, MUCH more significant than with Ho-oh.

To people still using "what-if" scenarios involving Rapid Spinner support...use a ghost pokemon on your team or phaze where it's impossible for them to switch into said Rapid Spinner.

More counter to Volcarona, esp. with hazard support, are priority moves and Choice Scarf users, as priority outspeeds Volcarona despite any Quiver Dance boosts, and most Choice Scarf users can outspeed Volcarona after 1 Quiver Dance. I'll use Choice Band Azumarill and Choice Scarf Terrakion as examples.

252Atk Terrakion (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 272% - 320% (1020 - 1200 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. Scarfed Adamant set can outspeed +1 Timid Volcarona.

252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 90% - 107% (338 - 402 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 43% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet vs 0HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 108% - 129% (338 - 402 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet in Sun vs 0HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 54% - 65% (170 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Will 1HKO with SR up.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet in Sun vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 45% - 54% (170 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO. Has a chance of 1HKO'ing with SR and guaranteed 1HKO with SR+1 layer of spikes.

Basically in order to beat Volcarona, like any other sweeper, don't let it set up on you and you'll be fine.

While there are candidates that deserve to be Uber, Volcarona is not one of them.
  #32    
Old February 11th, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Because Dragonite has more checks than steels ? See: things like Quagsire, Shed Shell Skarm, priority etc. Volc has pretty much 4 in the sun. Big difference.
The thing in the first paragraph is a theorymon example, the dragonite is just a closer to home example.
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  #33    
Old February 12th, 2012, 01:33 AM
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Exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrk View Post
As mentioned above, the argument that Volcarona should be banned because the rest of your team can clear its checks is rather silly; that's no different than the also silly "if x is gone y sweeps" argument.

The counter argument to Volcarona's hazard+phazing trouble is a what-of scenario by using Wobuffett and Arena Trap Dugtrio. That not only applies what I said in the last paragraph, you're just stating reasons why Wobuffett and Dugtrio are broken...

The difference between Volcarona and Ho-oh is that not only is Volcarona weak to Stealth Rocks, but it's also weak to spikes and toxic spikes. If Volcarona switches into SR and 3 layers of spikes, that's 75% of its health gone, MUCH more significant than with Ho-oh.

To people still using "what-if" scenarios involving Rapid Spinner support...use a ghost pokemon on your team or phaze where it's impossible for them to switch into said Rapid Spinner.

More counter to Volcarona, esp. with hazard support, are priority moves and Choice Scarf users, as priority outspeeds Volcarona despite any Quiver Dance boosts, and most Choice Scarf users can outspeed Volcarona after 1 Quiver Dance. I'll use Choice Band Azumarill and Choice Scarf Terrakion as examples.

252Atk Terrakion (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 272% - 320% (1020 - 1200 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. Scarfed Adamant set can outspeed +1 Timid Volcarona.

252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 90% - 107% (338 - 402 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 43% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet vs 0HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 108% - 129% (338 - 402 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet in Sun vs 0HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 54% - 65% (170 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Will 1HKO with SR up.
252Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (+Atk) Aqua Jet in Sun vs 252HP/0Def Volcarona (Neutral): 45% - 54% (170 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO. Has a chance of 1HKO'ing with SR and guaranteed 1HKO with SR+1 layer of spikes.

Basically in order to beat Volcarona, like any other sweeper, don't let it set up on you and you'll be fine.

While there are candidates that deserve to be Uber, Volcarona is not one of them.
The game moves at a much faster pace than you're describing. Your opponent isn't going to simply let you set up every hazard and then spinblock them. Aqua Jet is the only priority that can actually dent Volcarona outside of CB Nite's Espeed and the rare Sucker Punch and the calcs in sun are nothing special, as there's a good chance that SR won't be up, and 3HKO's don't mean anything regarding to big threats like Volcarona. Also, it's hard to 'not let Volcarona set up on you'. Volcarona sets up on so many Pokemon it's ridiculous and Sun even allows it to set up on water types like Rotom-W. Easier said than done, really. Also no one runs adamant Scarf Terrakion.

Honestly, I'm on the fence as to whether it should be banned, since you can usually beat it as long as you have something like Tran/Dnite/Gyara/Scarfer but can we at least not make bad arguments lol.
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