Atheist Alliance

[Shining Raichu]

Originally Posted by FrostPhoenix

It seems to me that we are slowly spiralling towards a state of mind where we talk about why Christians are wrong

I don't think that's an intentional direction anybody is steering in, but to be honest in a group of atheists you have to expect that there will be talk about why we think religious people are wrong lol. There will be agreement among us, because we are all from the same lack of faith. That's not at all to say we discourage discussion, but you have to be wary that that's what will happen sometimes, no matter what the topic. We can't help that, it's just realistically what will happen when any group of like-minded people come together.

However! In answer to your plea for a new topic...

Originally Posted by FrostPhoenix

But I still don't think that was what God intended. But no Bible verses I kno of.

I find what you say here interesting. It's been well-established that gay isn't something people choose. That's not a matter of opinion, it is simple fact. Therefore, we can conclude that homosexuality is not a product of free will. So if we aren't choosing to be gay, and it was also not something that God intended, then how does homosexuality exist at all?

[Gamzee]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

What I find interesting is the amount of people who say their parents or friends don't know that they're atheists. It's almost like it's as big of a deal as being gay, where there has to be this involved 'coming out' process. It might just be the area where I live, but... is it really that big of a deal?

It really depends on where you live and your family. I myself have never discussed religion with my family. I'm honestly not even sure what they are. My grandpa might think I'm Christian because I went to church for a few months, but it was purely to expand my knowledge on the religion.

However, I do have friends who are atheists and if they came out and just said they don't believe in God or anything of the religion, it would create tension and uneasiness in the family.

Originally Posted by Pudz

I... I don't even have a response from this. I just..wow...

Well, what's it matter? If someone disagrees with gay marriage, whatever, I'm not going to waste my time telling them that I think they're intolerant or illogical.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

[Shining Raichu]

Originally Posted by Gamzee

Well, what's it matter? If someone disagrees with gay marriage, whatever, I'm not going to waste my time telling them that I think they're intolerant or illogical.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting

[Toujours]

Originally Posted by PhantomX0990

Actually, in Catholicism, you're supposed to go to Church EVERY Sunday, as well as holy days of obligation, including; Christmas; Ash Wednesday; Easter (not just Easter Sunday, but Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and the Easter Vigil as well); The Epiphany; The Ascension; Immaculate Conception; Assumption; Saint Joseph; the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul; and All Saints Day.

Also you're supposed to go to Stations of the Cross during Lent, Confessions once a week (usually Saturdays or a LEAST annually), no meat on Fridays during Lent as well as Ash Wednesday (fish is ok), as well as observing Advent and it's Masses.

Uh speaking as someone who actually became Catholic over the Easter season, I think at least one priest would have told us if we were required to go to mass on Holy Thursday, Good Friday, the Easter Vigil, and Easter itself. In fact the Easter Vigil midnight mass was all we were required to go to. I think you're making Catholicism into a bigger deal than it is - other than Sundays there are only like 10 holy days of obligation and confession is only required of a practicing Catholic once a year. Yeah it's strict compared to other religions (and to atheism certainly lmao), but it's not really that crazy.

I know people who personally disagree with it, but they still vote in favor of it because they don't believe it to be their place to press their beliefs onto others. That's where it matters for me: if they're actively trying to oppress people.

I have the utmost respect for these people. I don't agree with their beliefs of course, but I have so much respect for people that believe something different but still are tolerant of others. It's greattttt :3

[Scarf]

So there is this video a friend suggested I watched yesterday and after watching it I thought I ought to sign up for this club.

This is the video: "Why Are You Atheists So Angry?"

I normally don't care to call myself an atheist or agnostic because I feel religion means so little to me I shouldn't even bother, but I've been reminded of the power that anger can have. And all the reasons I should be angry.

[SwiftSign]

Originally Posted by Scarf

So there is this video a friend suggested I watched yesterday and after watching it I thought I ought to sign up for this club.

This is the video: "Why Are You Atheists So Angry?"

I normally don't care to call myself an atheist or agnostic because I feel religion means so little to me I shouldn't even bother, but I've been reminded of the power that anger can have. And all the reasons I should be angry.

Interesting video, at first I thought it was going to be anti-athiest rather than an ironic talk.

Although most of her examples are specific examples of (what I hope) is a very small minority of Theists. However, an alarmingly high amount of this type of religious-people in positions of power in the US - Land of the free? Whilst I realise much worse things happen in Islamic countries, but the similar problem is religion holds the majority, and so gets the final say.

I'm glad that in the UK religion has a much smaller presence, at least during election times the religion of the front runners isn't normally mentioned. Saying this, we do have problems still, more with individuals than government - for example the Nigerian (?) pair who killed their younger cousin as he wet the bed, so they thought he was possessed.

Is that a problem for Religion or for a clash of Culture though? Where is the line drawn.


--------------

The topic of Aliens has been mentioned, I always thought that the existence of aliens contradicted the bible and therefore stricter christian's beliefs, as all as the creation stories from other religions. If we found evidence of alien life, what would happen to religion? Do you think it would just be included to explain Alien life as 'God's Plan' or do you think there would be a surge in Athiesm? (Or Scientology... Oh no.)

[Gamzee]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting :P

Yeah, it's a bit hard to tell what Frost meant. I'm just gonna guess he personally disagrees with it but doesn't believe it should be illegal.

[QuilavaKing]

I've always believed in aliens as a Christian, although it may just be wishful thinking. Either way, I do hope they exist. :P (Assuming they don't murder us all in our sleep. lol)

I understand that since we originally were supposed to live forever, you could assume that the rest of the universe was to account for our infinite expansion, but I still want some aliens to swoop in and give us a bunch of amazing technology that's hundreds of years ahead of our time. lol

[FrostPheonix]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

I think Pudz was commenting on the contradiction in Frost's post: "I am against it but I have nothing against it" - it didn't make much sense to me either tbh but I decided to skip over it in favour of the part I found more interesting

Originally Posted by Gamzee

Yeah, it's a bit hard to tell what Frost meant. I'm just gonna guess he personally disagrees with it but doesn't believe it should be illegal.

Thx there Gamzee thats what I meant, didn't come out right when I posted....

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

I don't think that's an intentional direction anybody is steering in, but to be honest in a group of atheists you have to expect that there will be talk about why we think religious people are wrong lol. There will be agreement among us, because we are all from the same lack of faith. That's not at all to say we discourage discussion, but you have to be wary that that's what will happen sometimes, no matter what the topic. We can't help that, it's just realistically what will happen when any group of like-minded people come together.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we have to, right? I mean, I understand that you guys naturally gravitate to the matter (seen it over and over in the past) but we could talk about something else now that the subject been raised.

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

I find what you say here interesting. It's been well-established that gay isn't something people choose. That's not a matter of opinion, it is simple fact. Therefore, we can conclude that homosexuality is not a product of free will. So if we aren't choosing to be gay, and it was also not something that God intended, then how does homosexuality exist at all?

Now that you say it, seems like a logical opinion. Never saw it from that way, although I realise being gay isn't choosable. But, heres the theory me and my old bible teacher had:

We believe that Adam and Eve are the first humans to have come on Earth; the first companions of God (not counting angels). Yet, from the moment mankind sinned, our genetic DNA has been spiraling downwards. Mutations in the DNA replication, RNA failures, etc. In the Bible, people used to live 600 years; now, people live to about 100. If they're lucky and have advanced medical treatment. Genetic diseases are starting to come about more and more frequently. I'd say that homosexuality came from somewhere around that spiral downwards. I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible... in biblical times, it was abhorrent to be homosexual. If it was all right, you might think he might have said something to clear things up. And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence? I know some people don't have intercourse ever as well. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but people can choose to believe what they wish. I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here.

Anyways....

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

I've always believed in aliens as a Christian, although it may just be wishful thinking. Either way, I do hope they exist. (Assuming they don't murder us all in our sleep. lol)

I understand that since we originally were supposed to live forever, you could assume that the rest of the universe was to account for our infinite expansion, but I still want some aliens to swoop in and give us a bunch of amazing technology that's hundreds of years ahead of our time. lol

I think there are aliens... who knows? The Bible doesn't actually refute it, and all of science points towards aliens. At least I'm sure there is microscopic life. Dunno about sentient one tho...

[SwiftSign]

Originally Posted by FrostPheonix

We believe that Adam and Eve are the first humans to have come on Earth; the first companions of God (not counting angels). Yet, from the moment mankind sinned, our genetic DNA has been spiraling downwards. Mutations in the DNA replication, RNA failures, etc. In the Bible, people used to live 600 years; now, people live to about 100. If they're lucky and have advanced medical treatment. Genetic diseases are starting to come about more and more frequently. I'd say that homosexuality came from somewhere around that spiral downwards. I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible... in biblical times, it was abhorrent to be homosexual. If it was all right, you might think he might have said something to clear things up. And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence? I know some people don't have intercourse ever as well. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but people can choose to believe what they wish. I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here.

In my opinion this train of thought is actually quite dangerous - you are saying genetic mutations are driven by sin? So things like Cancer, etc. are all because the individual, or humans as a whole, are sinful?

"I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible."

Homosexuality came about long before Christianity, the Bible was written by people who by then had to conform to the laws of the land - I'm no expert but I believe Homosexuality was banned in Jewish countries and such around the time of Christs supposed birth, but the Roman's were quite OK with it. Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it was viewed as disgusting.

Also, whilst I'm still in a semi angry state, this is my #1 Christian Pet Peeve:

"I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here."

Read as: "I don't know what God wants, but I'd guess it's exactly how I feel - and so I'll condemn you in his name."

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by FrostPheonix

We believe that Adam and Eve are the first humans to have come on Earth; the first companions of God (not counting angels). Yet, from the moment mankind sinned, our genetic DNA has been spiraling downwards. Mutations in the DNA replication, RNA failures, etc. In the Bible, people used to live 600 years; now, people live to about 100. If they're lucky and have advanced medical treatment. Genetic diseases are starting to come about more and more frequently. I'd say that homosexuality came from somewhere around that spiral downwards. I mean, if God wanted/was all right with homosexuality, he would have mentioned it in the Bible... in biblical times, it was abhorrent to be homosexual. If it was all right, you might think he might have said something to clear things up. And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence? I know some people don't have intercourse ever as well. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but people can choose to believe what they wish. I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here.

But even just 100 years ago people didn't live nearly as long as they do today. We've got tons of documents are records showing that people are gradually living longer as time goes by, not the other way around. Perhaps genetic diseases aren't becoming more frequent, just our ability to detect them and the fact that people aren't dying as early and so diseases have more time to manifest themselves. In other words, you wouldn't know if there were a lot of genetic diseases from a long time ago because people wouldn't know what to look for and lots of people who had them could easily have died from war, malnutrition, etc. before their conditions had a chance to show. I'd say it's a hard case to make that people are "spiraling downwards." And if we're not, then you can't really say that homosexuality is part of that non-existent downward trend. No connection between homosexuality and sin. So why should homosexuals have to stay abstinent any more than anyone else?

[QuilavaKing]

Originally Posted by FrostPheonix

And yes, I know people who are homosexual can't help it, but that doesn't mean they have to follow their impulses. A few kids still stay virgin until they marry, the same way, why can't homosexuals practice abstinence?

Why would we want to? (I'm both Gay and Christian btw.) If God supposedly gave us free will, then why has he laid out this mandate that we must love who he tells us to love? If I have to love the opposite sex to get into heaven, why can't I choose to be a girl then? And why would he care for that matter? I have never heard any reason that being Gay is bad other than "God said so." (Which he didn't.) That's just not good enough for me.

[FrostPheonix]

Originally Posted by SwiftSign

In my opinion this train of thought is actually quite dangerous - you are saying genetic mutations are driven by sin? So things like Cancer, etc. are all because the individual, or humans as a whole, are sinful?

...yes. Humans were supposed to live forever when God initially designed us. When we sinned, we lost that gift. So I'm guessing that from there we continually started getting a lower lifespan. Diseases, though, aren't because of that, diseases are just genetically developing bacteria. Like AIDs. not anything from that. But our immune system is probably deteriorating, kind of a result of our lifespans lowering. And Adam was the epitome of Human DNA, the perfect DNA strand. As humans progress, DNA replication malfunctions accumulate and cause mutations, leading to the Human DNA continually deteriorating.

Originally Posted by SwiftSign

"I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here."

Read as: "I don't know what God wants, but I'd guess it's exactly how I feel - and so I'll condemn you in his name."

Not what I meant. I meant, here's what I think, and I in no way am trying to say this is exactly what god wants. Sorry if that come out wrong.

Originally Posted by Scarf

But even just 100 years ago people didn't live nearly as long as they do today. We've got tons of documents are records showing that people are gradually living longer as time goes by, not the other way around. Perhaps genetic diseases aren't becoming more frequent, just our ability to detect them and the fact that people aren't dying as early and so diseases have more time to manifest themselves. In other words, you wouldn't know if there were a lot of genetic diseases from a long time ago because people wouldn't know what to look for and lots of people who had them could easily have died from war, malnutrition, etc. before their conditions had a chance to show. I'd say it's a hard case to make that people are "spiraling downwards."

Human 'medical science' has basically been avoiding death. Smallpox has been pretty much destroyed. Polio etc are virtually non existent in Western countries. 100 years ago, we didn't have the medical expertise we have now. But, should we take medicine out of the equation, I'm sure we'll see the same pattern of decreasing life expectancies. the book 'The Long Emergency', by Kunstler, is basically forecasting this. When oil runs out, we won't be able to produce medicine by the vast quantities we do now anymore, and disease will start to go rampant. Its thanks to modern medicine that we are where we are now. If medicine stayed stagnant, we would probably be dying out a heck of a lot quicker.

Originally Posted by Scarf

And if we're not, then you can't really say that homosexuality is part of that non-existent downward trend. No connection between homosexuality and sin. So why should homosexuals have to stay abstinent any more than anyone else?

I take that back then. All of you have overwhelmed me . At the moment, I have no concrete reason I could tell you except gut instinct, and that won't count here.

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

Why would we want to? (I'm both Gay and Christian btw.) If God supposedly gave us free will, then why has he laid out this mandate that we must love who he tells us to love? If I have to love the opposite sex to get into heaven, why can't I choose to be a girl then? And why would he care for that matter? I have never heard any reason that being Gay is bad other than "God said so." (Which he didn't.) That's just not good enough for me.

I have no reason at the moment... like I said above, I only have gut instinct. Which doesn't count as much, really, since you could say the same . I retreat from the homosexuality front; I can't really argue there anymore. Not until I have a good think over it.

[Toujours]

Originally Posted by FrostPheonix

Human 'medical science' has basically been avoiding death. Smallpox has been pretty much destroyed. Polio etc are virtually non existent in Western countries. 100 years ago, we didn't have the medical expertise we have now. But, should we take medicine out of the equation, I'm sure we'll see the same pattern of decreasing life expectancies. the book 'The Long Emergency', by Kunstler, is basically forecasting this. When oil runs out, we won't be able to produce medicine by the vast quantities we do now anymore, and disease will start to go rampant. Its thanks to modern medicine that we are where we are now. If medicine stayed stagnant, we would probably be dying out a heck of a lot quicker.

Do you have any fact-based argument of this? How do you remove medicine from the fabric of human lives? What makes you think that lifespans would be getting shorter if not for medicine, other that 'I think this'?

[QuilavaKing]

http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot...theist-critic/

I know we've been sort of hating on Christians a little bit. So, when I saw this story, I thought I should post it here, to shed a little light on what Christianity is actually supposed to be. I hardly ever hear stories like this anymore, but this is how Christians should be acting. Not out there telling people that they're evil, or that God hates them, but showing as much love and kindness as possible, no matter what the other person has done to them.

[Shining Raichu]

The "gofundme.com" URL I misread as "godfoundme.com" haha.

Texans in general have been exceeding expectations everywhere recently. There was that video that was posted in the LGBT Club a while ago that showed the wonderful way in which the patrons of a diner reacted to a judgmental waitress waiting on a lesbian couple and their children - and now this. It really does change the stereotype away from the gun-toting Christian hicks for which Texas (as well as other Southern states) is known. Either way, I loved that story!

[PhantomX0990]

My friend and I, a long time ago, once decided that religions are potatoes.

Religions are like a sack of potatoes. You open it up and there are so many different choices for each potato.

Islam is a plain hot potato. Outside it's covered with a rough exterior skin of rituals and dogma. It's plain and to the point, and handle it too much and you're likely to be burned. It also claims to be just like the normal potatoe, but you're still likely to get burned.

Catholicism is like a loaded baked potato. This one, unlike the Islamic potatoe, has been left to cool and is 'older' than the Islamic potato. It also has a rough outer skin of rituals and dogma, but it's been opened up and 'sweetened' over time by things like sour cream, chives, butter, and cheese to make it more appealing. This is, even though it's older if you delve to far in you're still likely to get a nice burn.

Judaism is a frozen potato, it's much older than the Catholic or Islamic potato, and costs more too.

Protestants and Moderate Christians are like fast food french fries. They're a mixed up bunch, but if you look back far enough they were once a regular potato. But some have too much salt, or not enough, and some are overcooked, or cold, or soggy, or way to hot to handle. (coughWestborocoughcough).

Scientology is an empty potato sack that you have to pay to have refilled with new potatoes that are 'better' than other potatoes.

Pagans are like mashed potatoes, they look nothing like other potatoes and they have been mashed up and degraded over time.

Buddhists, Taoism, and Hinduism are Asian and don't eat potatoes, they're rice instead.





We were insane teenagers...shhhhh.

[QuilavaKing]

But the only kind of potato I like is a baked potato with nothing on it... so I'm Muslim?

[PhantomX0990]

It's an analogy for what the religions are, not it's worshipers. lol

[QuilavaKing]

But as a worshiper, surely I like my religion, right?

And the only potato I like is a plain baked potato. (I was joking anyway. lol)

[PhantomX0990]

Well, the religions are like those potatoes, so yeah I guess you're now a Muslim.

[QuilavaKing]

And I suppose Atheism is like not having a potato at all, so you guys get to go hungry. :P

Or perhaps you get to eat candy instead. Depending on how you look at it.

[droomph]

SIGN ME UP OH BOY

Originally Posted by SwiftSign

Also, whilst I'm still in a semi angry state, this is my #1 Christian Pet Peeve:

"I don't pretend to say I know exactly what God wants, but I think I am saying what he wants right here."

Read as: "I don't know what God wants, but I'd guess it's exactly how I feel - and so I'll condemn you in his name."

Those aren't real and true Christians. Just saying. Trust me I know. The real mindset is more like "Holy crap guys let's go love the Bible" which is not necessarily bad (nor am I poking fun at those kinds of Christians) but it's kinda makes them look like lunatics.

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

Why would we want to? (I'm both Gay and Christian btw.) If God supposedly gave us free will, then why has he laid out this mandate that we must love who he tells us to love? If I have to love the opposite sex to get into heaven, why can't I choose to be a girl then? And why would he care for that matter? I have never heard any reason that being Gay is bad other than "God said so." (Which he didn't.) That's just not good enough for me.

Actually yes, it does say. It's saying, "Don't do another man, because that' disgraceful". However, it says nothing about lesbians, so...

However, in Christianity, it says to do the best you can, but if you appreciate all that He is (like tolerating people *hint hint*) and try your best He'll forgive you of all the crappy aspects of yourself, like the "gay" part, or the "crack and morphine" part.

Originally Posted by PhantomX0990

My friend and I, a long time ago, once decided that religions are potatoes.

Religions are like a sack of potatoes. You open it up and there are so many different choices for each potato.

Islam is a plain hot potato. Outside it's covered with a rough exterior skin of rituals and dogma. It's plain and to the point, and handle it too much and you're likely to be burned. It also claims to be just like the normal potatoe, but you're still likely to get burned.

Catholicism is like a loaded baked potato. This one, unlike the Islamic potatoe, has been left to cool and is 'older' than the Islamic potato. It also has a rough outer skin of rituals and dogma, but it's been opened up and 'sweetened' over time by things like sour cream, chives, butter, and cheese to make it more appealing. This is, even though it's older if you delve to far in you're still likely to get a nice burn.

Judaism is a frozen potato, it's much older than the Catholic or Islamic potato, and costs more too.

Protestants and Moderate Christians are like fast food french fries. They're a mixed up bunch, but if you look back far enough they were once a regular potato. But some have too much salt, or not enough, and some are overcooked, or cold, or soggy, or way to hot to handle. (coughWestborocoughcough).

Scientology is an empty potato sack that you have to pay to have refilled with new potatoes that are 'better' than other potatoes.

Pagans are like mashed potatoes, they look nothing like other potatoes and they have been mashed up and degraded over time.

Buddhists, Taoism, and Hinduism are Asian and don't eat potatoes, they're rice instead.





We were insane teenagers...shhhhh.

You forgot Nondenominational Christians. They're probably like fresh french fries...crunchy on the outside and soft on the inside

Also Shintoism is probably like A DELICIOUS MOCHI CAKE OH YEAH.もちもち〜〜もちがほしいですよ〜

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

And I suppose Atheism is like not having a potato at all, so you guys get to go hungry.

Or perhaps you get to eat candy instead. Depending on how you look at it.

Nah, it's more like a sweet potato and everybody judges you because of that.

Spoiler:

Oh and speaking of, here's something I found from theoatmeal!

[SwiftSign]

Happy Rabbits, Eggs and Chocolate holiday guys :D

[QuilavaKing]

I'm surprised Atheists don't call it zombie day. That would be hilarious if I wasn't Christian. lol :P