[B2/W2] [Spoiler]Pokemon World Tournament Discussion

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

The fact that Geo has his gen III art makes me think this might not be cannonical at all... too bad because Steven could've fixed up Hoenn's spot in the timeline...

[Pokemon Trainer Kevin]

If the Hoenn leaders don't show up for some reason, then it pretty much confirms for me that RS will be remade.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by Pokemon Trainer Kevin

If the Hoenn leaders don't show up for some reason, then it pretty much confirms for me that RS will be remade.

Hoenn Champion is already in the game though, and is one of the preliminary trainers.

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire

The fact that Geo has his gen III art makes me think this might not be cannonical at all...

Even ignoring the typos, this makes no sense. The art is placeholder art. I believe that Giovanni had no Gen IV art, so the Gen III art was used. Same for Steven.

[wombateiro]

I think World Tournament IS canon because:
- it looks like Giovanni has sprite from HG/SS (third on the right on tournament table, I think it's him),
- look at battle titles for Cynthia, Steven, Lance and Gary. They all say "Pokemon Trainer" ポケモントレーナー there won't be problem if Giovanni is classified as still being Gym Leader because he's probably going to be simply called Pokemon Trainer,
- if it wasn't canon both Steven and Wallace would appear in Corocoro being labeled as Champions, but only Steven appeared. It also most likely indicates that B2/W2 take place before R/S/E.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by wombateiro

I think World Tournament IS canon because:
- it looks like Giovanni has sprite from HG/SS (third on the right on tournament table, I think it's him),
- look at battle titles for Cynthia, Steven, Lance and Gary. They all say "Pokemon Trainer" ポケモントレーナー there won't be problem if Giovanni is classified as still being Gym Leader because he's probably going to be simply called Pokemon Trainer,
- if it wasn't canon both Steven and Wallace would appear in Corocoro being labeled as Champions, but only Steven appeared. It also most likely indicates that B2/W2 take place before R/S/E.

That would depend on which game series they are following. If they don't include Emerald's story as Canon then Juan doesn't exist and Wallace is a Gym Leader while only Steven is Champion.

[wombateiro]

Originally Posted by XanderO

That would depend on which game series they are following. If they don't include Emerald's story as Canon then Juan doesn't exist and Wallace is a Gym Leader while only Steven is Champion.

That would mean they shouldn't include Eusine in HG/SS because Crystal's story is not canon. I don't believe they will ever don't count third game as canon.
Actually, third games are more important as canon because they contain more expanded storyline. In B/W Cynthia compares player to that trainer who encountered Giratina, referring to canon event she witnessed in Distortion World in Platinum. All third games are counted as canon.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by wombateiro

That would mean they shouldn't include Eusine in HG/SS because Crystal's story is not canon. I don't believe they will ever don't count third game as canon.
Actually, third games are more important as canon because they contain more expanded storyline. In B/W Cynthia compares player to that trainer who encountered Giratina, referring to canon event she witnessed in Distortion World in Platinum. All third games are counted as canon.

Platinum was already revealed as Canon with Looker. Never said anything about Third games only Emerald. Twice Steven has been shown as the Champion of Hoenn despite Wallace taking over in Emerald. It may just be Emerald that wasn't counted. RSE have conflicting stories already, after all they happen at the same time with two different sets of Final Gym and Champions) so they'd have to choose one or the other. They seem to have Chosen Ruby and Sapphire's story over Emeralds's.

With Steven still being Champion, they are saying that Ruby/Sapphire's story takes precedence over Emerald's.

[wombateiro]

Originally Posted by XanderO

Platinum was already revealed as Canon with Looker. Never said anything about Third games only Emerald. Twice Steven has been shown as the Champion of Hoenn despite Wallace taking over in Emerald. It may just be Emerald that wasn't counted. RSE have conflicting stories already, after all they happen at the same time with two different sets of Final Gym and Champions) so they'd have to choose one or the other. They seem to have Chosen Ruby and Sapphire's story over Emeralds's.

With Steven still being Champion, they are saying that Ruby/Sapphire's story takes precedence over Emerald's.

Well, D/P and Platinum also have conflicting stories... stories of Giratina and Cyrus are different in those games. If they've chosen Crystal's and Platinum's stories to be canon, they will also choose Emerald.
They will never exclude any third game from canon. Emerald is also part of canon. We just don't have proof yet, because R/S/E seem to be last in timeline. Platnium is already proven to be canon only because it takes place before B/W and B2/W2.

Assuming that all third games are canon, World Tournament confirms that B2/W2 take place before R/S/E.

[GSCyndaquil19]

Nobody has seemed to mention this. Remixed themes for all those Gym Leaders and E4.

[Suicune™]

That's what I thought, I wonder if they will just be designated either the same sound track or remixed of their regional gym music. There was a soundtrack coded into Black & White for the Champion of Kanto but was never used in the games, surely this would be perfect for Green.


Also, still looking forward (assuming they do) to them revealing some more gym leaders returning, by the looks of things we'll get a few more considering day by day we've learnt about a couple more appearing, just want to know if we'll see any Hoenn leaders.

[voicerocker]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet.

Giovanni and Janine weren't Gym Leaders at the same point in time. Any thoughts on this? I doubt they would invite a known criminal organization leader in to a tournament of respectable trainers unless he was still a Gym Leader and it was still a secret, unless it's not supposed to be considered canon and these are all cameo-like appearances.

And Blue, would he be there under his most recent title of Gym Leader or his highest title as Champion?

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

I too wonder what title he'll have...
I hope that they update the themes to B2W2, I'll like to hear an updated version of Steven's theme in the tournament :3.

[Scorpiopt]

having to get opponents via wifi just like they do with pokemon is stupid

[Suicune™]

Just some clearer/new pictures of the Tournament, I love how the OW sprites look of the Gym Leaders in the third image, we haven't seen them BW style before!

[Forever]

You know, if your character is in the tournament... why? Is it after you beat the Elite Four twice - and become the best in the region? Are you only qualified to compete because of that? Are you invited to join after stopping Plasma (?) from ruining Kyurem (?) by Juniper? That's what I wonder tbh.

Also I love how I was right-ish. :3

[wombateiro]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Noooo, because RSE takes place at the same time as Rby due to the team rocket people and stuff.

What are you talking about? There's no Team Rocket in R/S/E storyline.

More on-topic: I think World Tournament might be limited on purpose in B2/W2 (not all Gym Leaders, not full teams) to be improved in future games. Kinda like it was done with limited Gym Leaders rematches from Platinum improved in HG/SS.

[Suicune™]

Considering each of them have three Pokémon maybe again it's like a Battle Frontier feature i.e they're set at Level 100 specialising in their typing which would be accessible post-storyline.

Also, although there are no Johto/Hoenn leaders there currently that doesn't rule them out..
"You can download more trainers via special distribution methods such as the Nintendo WiFi Connection, as time goes on. These include many of the special trainers seen below"
Even then, we don't have full details on it yet.

[Elite Overlord LeSabre™]

Particularly if it's non-canon, perhaps former player characters and evil team leaders would be announced. Not that I'm particularly in support of either (besides Leaf, of course) because I really don't like having anything non-canon in the handheld Pokemon games.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by Elite Overlord LeSabre™

Particularly if it's non-canon, perhaps former player characters and evil team leaders would be announced. Not that I'm particularly in support of either (besides Leaf, of course) because I really don't like having anything non-canon in the handheld Pokemon games.

Its just Champions and Gym Leaders. Since none of the other PC's are "Champions" by programming in the games, I doubt they'll appear.

Kinda hope the Unova Gym Leaders get added to the Tournament cause I would love to see what Homika and Cheren would be using if the teams don't alternate.

[Suicune™]

Originally Posted by XanderO

Its just Champions and Gym Leaders. Since none of the other PC's are "Champions" by programming in the games, I doubt they'll appear.

Kinda hope the Unova Gym Leaders get added to the Tournament cause I would love to see what Homika and Cheren would be using if the teams don't alternate.

I would have thought that this would be exclusively for the other region Gym Leaders and then the Unova Leaders will be rematchable in their gyms after the E4. I hope they have gym rematches in B2W2, it was a disappointment that they didn't in BW.

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by wombateiro

- if it wasn't canon both Steven and Wallace would appear in Corocoro being labeled as Champions, but only Steven appeared. It also most likely indicates that B2/W2 take place before R/S/E.

Assuming remakes are canon, which they most likely are:

R/S/E occurs before HG/SS (confirmed by Steven referencing the Hoenn protagonists)
HG/SS occurs concurrently with D/P/Pt (Red Gyarados news report and various other hints)
D/P/Pt occurs before B/W (confirmed by Cynthia referencing the Sinnoh protagonists)
B/W occurs before B2/W2 (direct sequels)

Therefore, R/S/E occurs before B2/W2. As for the Wallace argument, he didn't appear as a gym leader either.

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

I find it interesting that in the Kanto Bracket picture Blue's missing, perhaps this means that they'll save the eighth gym leader for last.

[Kirbychu]

Originally Posted by wombateiro

It also most likely indicates that B2/W2 take place before R/S/E.

Which makes no sense, considering that BW confirmed that RSE takes place before HGSSDPPt with the ""after a long travel through time"" message present on Pal Park'd Pokemon's summaries.

And this still doesn't excuse the fact that all the trainers look exactly the same after so many years.

[wombateiro]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

R/S/E occurs before HG/SS (confirmed by Steven referencing the Hoenn protagonists)

Steven doesn't say anything that is 100% about Hoenn protagonists. No proof at all. Events from gens 1, 2 and 4 are 100% confirmed to have already happened before B/W, while only R/S/E events are not even mentioned. Why?

Originally Posted by Kirbychu

Which makes no sense, considering that BW confirmed that RSE takes place before HGSSDPPt with the ""after a long travel through time"" message present on Pal Park'd Pokemon's summaries.

Where is that confirmation? "Travel through time" can mean as well that R/S/E take place after B/W and B2/W2. It's not said if Pokemon arrived from past or future.
Anyway, this message about travel through time is shown only for Pokemon transfered from GBA games. Pokemon transfered from R/S remakes won't have this message anymore, so there is no proof at all.

This timeline discussion is for another thread, so if you have any other ideas to prove I'm wrong about timeline, post them in appropriate thread.