Community

The PokéCommunity

We are still working on a better slogan!

Visit Index



Advertise here

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Pokémon Gaming > Fifth Generation
Notices

Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black2 & White2.

Post Reply
Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.  
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:16 AM
chaos11011's Avatar
chaos11011
Habunake, Bite!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Docile
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to chaos11011

Advertise here
For those who don't know, a Player's Guide popped up. In it, it revealed all of the Gym Leaders and, something that I honestly didn't expect, an alteration to the type chart! The guide says that Bug is no longer "not very effective" to Ghost, but is now neutral. This leaves things like Spiritomb and Sableye with a weakness. Now, this could be a typo, so be aware of that.

  #2    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:22 AM
MiTjA's Avatar
MiTjA
Poké-atheist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Slovenia
Age: 24
Nature: Serious
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to MiTjA
Of course its a typo.

Don't you see Ice is still utter garbage defensively?
That would be where the changes would start.
Besides I dont have my hopes up for them changing this between generations, let alone in the middle of one...
  #3    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:26 AM
chaos11011's Avatar
chaos11011
Habunake, Bite!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Docile
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to chaos11011
If anything, Poison would be the one getting a buff. Being Super Effective to Water or something.

I mean, they have changed the type chart before, with the transition to GSC (Poison being nerfed and the addition to Steel and Dark). Maybe they thought that Ghost was too powerful or Bug was too weak? Though, this does make stuff like VoltTurn much more difficult to stop (Golurk being a Pokemon that can't resist the combo anymore).
  #4    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:29 AM
rocky505's Avatar
rocky505
<Now who's awesome!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Parrish, AL
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
If its true then it could be because of people making hacked wondertombs lol.
3DS FC: 3995-6518-0794
  #5    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:34 AM
ANinyMouse's Avatar
ANinyMouse
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Gender:
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Changing the type chart sure would be nice, but... Yeah, there are far worse glaring flaws in the current system that would logically be balanced before anything else, and those weren't reported. This is just a typo.

GAMEFREAK might alter the chart next gen, but they'd do it at the start of a new generation, I'd wager. Man... hard to imagine another 100+ Pokemon next time...

Like has been mentioned: Ice is stupidly weak defensively, Poison is stupidly weak offensively, Dragon is almost too overwhelming offensively and some of the choices just don't make any kind of sense, like a lot of the properties of Steel (weak to Fighting and Ground of all things?).
  #6    
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Khrysta
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gender:
Nature: Hasty
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Skype™ to Khrysta
I saw comments about Ice and Poison, granted the type itself sucks, but the moves for both those types are pretty common in competitive teams. Although the type and Pokemon with those types are usually pathetically weak, they really don't need major boosts as they already counter a few of the more devastating types.

Ice is the end all beat all trump to Dragon Pokemon. There is only 1 Non-Legendary Dragon Pokemon that isn't weak to Ice types and that's Kingdra who's stats aren't all that great.

Now the original post said something that COULD have lead to Bug and Ghost's relationship to change. Sableye and Spiritomb are annoying when hacked, not that they aren't annoying on their own. Giving the ONLY type combination in existence without a weakness, a weakness is a good thing.

Other than that Bug is also one of the weaker types with even less effective attack moves than Poison or Ice, and really other than a small handful, Bug types aren't used that often. Pokemon or attack wise.
  #7    
Old June 16th, 2012, 11:11 AM
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Coast
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Careful
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
If this is true and not a typo than the Electross line is the only one without weaknesses left.
At least they upped Bug a little, now to fix Ice up.
Stand for Life
  #8    
Old June 16th, 2012, 11:22 AM
ANinyMouse's Avatar
ANinyMouse
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Gender:
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
While Ice-type attacks are extremely common (and for good reason), Ice-type Pokemon themselves are usually underwhelming and not seen often - too many glaring weaknesses to common attack types, no resistances to speak of to aid the team. That's what I'm talking about. Of course Ice is great offensively, it just feels wrong that the Pokemon with that namesake are so often forsaken in lieu of Water-types! Giving Ice even one more resistance would help a lot.

Poison-types are fine defensively, but offensively they could use a boost. For instance, if Steel-types retained their immunity to the Poison status ailment but took neutral damage from Poison attacks, that would help a lot. The only things that use Poison-type attacks are Poison-types that have a good coverage move that can hit most Steel-types, since no one likes to waste a turn on an already bad attack if a common type can switch in on it for free.
  #9    
Old June 16th, 2012, 12:35 PM
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Coast
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Careful
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Perhaps they can make Ice super effective against Fire, in some circles both those type are strong and weak against each other.
Stand for Life
  #10    
Old June 16th, 2012, 01:50 PM
ANinyMouse's Avatar
ANinyMouse
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Gender:
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
That wouldn't help Ice-type Pokemon at all, really.

Anyway, yes, if this supposed change is true then I can only assume it was done to reign in Spiritomb & Sableye.
  #11    
Old June 16th, 2012, 05:04 PM
manutdrule's Avatar
manutdrule
Not your cup of tea.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Nature: Calm
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
now this reminds me of certain hack/s that have dark/ghost pkmn with wonder guard ability...
if only they have done this earlier.

  #12    
Old June 16th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Hikamaru's Avatar
Hikamaru
I have not had my teeth whitened!
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Quirky
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Something tells me that this altered type chart is a typo.

I'm hoping this is false cos if it were real then it would make Spiritomb and Sableye lose their no weaknesses status.
  #13    
Old June 17th, 2012, 01:40 AM
MiTjA's Avatar
MiTjA
Poké-atheist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Slovenia
Age: 24
Nature: Serious
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to MiTjA
Why give away the gimmicks they are known for?

Besides why would they change actual game mechanics on the basis of what goes on when cheaters battle? Cheaters shouldnt even be in the equation, except getting rid of them.
It would be like giving up and telling us there is nothing wrong with cheating.

And EVEN IF they did that, which is not the case, they would have to change more than just that to prevent it from happening ever again.

And as iTeruri points out below, if they wanted to fix Wonder Guard, they wouldn't go mess with the type chart instead of Wonder Guard itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
I saw comments about Ice and Poison, granted the type itself sucks, but the moves for both those types are pretty common in competitive teams. Although the type and Pokemon with those types are usually pathetically weak, they really don't need major boosts as they already counter a few of the more devastating types.

Ice is the end all beat all trump to Dragon Pokemon. There is only 1 Non-Legendary Dragon Pokemon that isn't weak to Ice types and that's Kingdra who's stats aren't all that great.

Now the original post said something that COULD have lead to Bug and Ghost's relationship to change. Sableye and Spiritomb are annoying when hacked, not that they aren't annoying on their own. Giving the ONLY type combination in existence without a weakness, a weakness is a good thing.

Other than that Bug is also one of the weaker types with even less effective attack moves than Poison or Ice, and really other than a small handful, Bug types aren't used that often. Pokemon or attack wise.
No one is talking about Ice offensively.

You cant excuse crappy defense with great offense when it comes to types.
Offense is only related to the pokemon itself by STAB, whereas defense is completely fixed.

-Anyone can use an Ice move.
-Ice pokemon suck.
=>Ice needs a defensive buff.

You cannot compare the offensive and defensive aspects of types directly, because one is optional while the other is inherent.

I mean seriously, it has 4 weaknesses (including Fight and Rock of all things) and ONE resistance.




Anyways, heres how I would fix the chart to make it more balanced:
To improve Ice defensively I would give it several resistances, two gamechanging and one simple:
-Ground (that would be one drastic buff. With this, bulky Ice pokes like Cloyster and Glaceon are not a cruel useless joke, but actually viable candidates to switch into earthquakes and fight back!)
-Dragon (nothing bar Steel stops this type, so Ice would make dragons think twice, like everyone else.)
-Water (it would make an interesting second both way resist situation like Bug/Fight)

Then I would cripple Steel a bit by giving it another weakness:
-Electric (at the same time making this fella offensively almost as important as Rock/Fight/Ground)(lol Skarmory would then share its brothers quad weakness. Also Empoleon)

Next of course making Poison not a waste of moveslots, by making it SE on:
-Normal (this one is to good defensively for the "default" type anyways and its kind of a no-brainer)
-Dark (they can deal with it (except for the Grass ones...))

Buff Rock slightly:
-Rock (it should resist its own Stealth Rock right? besides I nerfed the other super offense Ground too.)

Get rid of some stuff Grass sucks against:
-Flying
-Bug
(its just painful with alll those resistances. Just because its weak to them doesnt mean it has to suck against them)

Give Psy something else to kill:
-Ghost (both ways weakness, hell yea.)
(with its 2 immunities its still better than everything bar Steel)
I would even get rid of one of Ghosts resistances:
-Poison neutral against Ghost


With that, the field would be way more even.
The only thing left is Steel being ridiculously superior. I don't see a way to fix that though.

I got that in a picture:


So even after all that theorizing and balancing, I would choose to remove the Poison resistance, NOT THE BUG one, simply because Poison can be completely nulified by one type.

==>Bug neutral against Ghost would be unecessary. And not even the most reasonable way to give Spiritomb a weakness....if that was even an issue to begin with.

Last edited by MiTjA; June 17th, 2012 at 04:23 AM.
  #14    
Old June 17th, 2012, 01:48 AM
Forever's Avatar
Forever
let it go
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: http://goo.my/server
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Yeah um, my question is who even picks up on this stuff, lool. Like seriously you'd have to be just looking for a mistake here which would get kinda boring.

I don't really care if it's a typo or not, since it'd be a big change, but I'd get used to it. Might make Volcarona more overpowered tho.
I'm paired with and in love with Frizy ♥
  #15    
Old June 17th, 2012, 03:21 AM
iTeruri's Avatar
iTeruri
iAm
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The Nederlands
Nature: Relaxed
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Probably just an error in the guide. If they changed it to counter Spiritombs and Sableye's with Wonder Guard, they should've changed Wonder Guard to only work for Pokémon with 1 base HP. Actually, they should've done that in the first place. xD
  #16    
Old June 17th, 2012, 04:22 AM
Kanto_Johto's Avatar
Kanto_Johto
Never glimpse the truth
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: A Silver Sun
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Bold
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Requility View Post
Yeah um, my question is who even picks up on this stuff, lool. Like seriously you'd have to be just looking for a mistake here which would get kinda boring.
Not really. It's not difficult to inadvertently notice that the bug type is not listed as only dealing x1/2 damage against the ghost type.

As mentioned, the only real problem caused by this is that Spiritomb and Sableye would no longer have no weaknesses.

The likelihood of this is that it's a typo. I remember in my G/S strategy guide they'd mixed up Espeon's and Umbreon's evolution methods, listing Espeon as happiness during nighttime and Umbreon as happiness during daytime.
  #17    
Old June 17th, 2012, 04:40 AM
Perrie ✿'s Avatar
Perrie ✿
11/05/1982 - 13/07/2013
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: England
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
It's a typo. Pokemon guides are literally full of errors.
✿ trade thread✿
1349 6159 4149
  #18    
Old June 17th, 2012, 12:05 PM
SolarAbusoru's Avatar
SolarAbusoru
Go Go PokéRangers
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lumios City
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
It's obvious this is a typo, changing the type mid generation would ruin all compatibility with Black and White, and the games are compatible with Black and White, so yeah, misprint.

Lover of all things Pokémon and Nintendo, and Atlus
Signature Pokémon: Luxray
  #19    
Old June 17th, 2012, 12:08 PM
Team Fail's Avatar
Team Fail
The fine line between in|sanity
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Nature: Brave
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonomega View Post
It's a typo. Pokemon guides are literally full of errors.
This. I have a guide that is simply littered with errors. I don't even use it anymore.

Pairs:
Kevin, Echidna
Follow me on Twitter! @TeamFail
Alt 1, リザードン
Miiverse
Pokémon Hackers Online
Alt 2: Jack Cayman



[04:20.39] <@GoGo> I WILL INSERT WITH PLEASURE
[04:20.45] <@GoGo> shut it Bela

[05:41.55] <Team_Fail> Blue Spider is interesting, but #MEHMasterRace
[05:42.20] <diegoisawesome> Team_Fail: Sounds like a bunch of unmotivated people that still want to try to take over the world
  #20    
Old June 17th, 2012, 02:25 PM
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Coast
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Careful
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
It proably is a typo as Solar said it'll ruin the compability for battles between the two pairs.
Seriously who ever prints these guides (Nintendo?) should double check for errors...
Stand for Life
  #21    
Old June 18th, 2012, 08:12 AM
Livewire's Avatar
Livewire
でんきタイプ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sunyshore City
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Skype™ to Livewire
You could always you know, hit Sableye or Spiritomb with a powerful stab and kill them that way. Plus both rock Will-o-Wisp making most Bug attackers useless, aside from Heracross & Volcarona. Type neutrality is not a weakness, especially to a type of Pokemon very weak to status & stall.

Not really a big deal, and not the first time they've altered Bug's type effectiveness.
  #22    
Old June 18th, 2012, 12:41 PM
Magic's Avatar
Magic
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
You could always you know, hit Sableye or Spiritomb with a powerful stab and kill them that way. Plus both rock Will-o-Wisp making most Bug attackers useless, aside from Heracross & Volcarona. Type neutrality is not a weakness, especially to a type of Pokemon very weak to status & stall.

Not really a big deal, and not the first time they've altered Bug's type effectiveness.
It becomes a weakness because the x1/2 against Ghost used to balance out the x2 against Dark.
  #23    
Old June 18th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Khrysta
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gender:
Nature: Hasty
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Send a message via Skype™ to Khrysta
Just a random thought to add in, I know its most likely a typo, I'm just hoping its really a change, though I did want to say, we have not been given confirmation that B2W2 can "Battle" with B/W. We can Trade, but as of yet they haven't confirmed battles.

Its not an attempt against the naysay, just pointing out that we don't even know if B2W2 can battle with B/W. We just know that we can trade.
  #24    
Old June 19th, 2012, 03:03 AM
Hiroshi Sotomura's Avatar
Hiroshi Sotomura
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarAbusoru View Post
It's obvious this is a typo, changing the type mid generation would ruin all compatibility with Black and White, and the games are compatible with Black and White, so yeah, misprint.
Last I heard, the host game dictates the battle rules. If [move x] has a different effect between games and the group leader has Black 2, then Black 2's version of [move x] would prevail over Black's version of [move x].

Just ask the accuracy-changing Hypnosis.
  #25    
Old June 19th, 2012, 06:40 AM
rocky505's Avatar
rocky505
<Now who's awesome!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Parrish, AL
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournaments Won: 0
Yep hypnosis and it's accuracy change shows it wouldn't cause issues as bad as people think it would.
3DS FC: 3995-6518-0794
Post Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links


Advertise here
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Minimum Characters Per Post: 25



All times are UTC -8. The time now is 10:40 PM.

About Us
© 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com. Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.

Copyright
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com. PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator. Header artwork by Jordanice of deviantART.

Social Media
If you would like to stay up-to-date with us on the go, when we're down, or other such things, follow us on social media sites--most notibly Twitter, Facebook, and Google Plus--by clicking on the links provided.

Design presented by Peitharchia. Special thanks to Hiroshi Sotomura and Ausaudriel.