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  #26    
Old June 19th, 2012 (05:54 PM).
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Do i really need to repeat myself ?
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  #27    
Old June 19th, 2012 (08:04 PM).
Lila.
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Yeah, I agree with karpman completely. The round 1 suspects at the very least should be banned. Darkrai and skymin are just broken. I'd go as far to say that aladron's proposal, thundurus, excadrill, deo-s, garchomp, blaziken bans etc should really all be in affect. Although I'm not sure how many people would agree with me...

I think it should be considered that just because something has a "counter" per say does not mean that it isn't completely broken. Excadrill for instance can't break gliscor and something like thundurus is unable to break gastrodon. Although with something that has a really negative effect against certain playstyles like stall (thundurus) and offense (excadrill), should it really be allowed to be in the tier? I don't really think so. Something like sub sd garchomp is almost impossible to beat under a sandstorm. The opponent merely needs to sub down until you miss a crucial move and boost to get off at least a few kos. If your opponent's team is built to spread paralysis, there's nothing you can do to win, whatsoever.
  #28    
Old June 19th, 2012 (09:30 PM). Edited June 19th, 2012 by Dark Azelf.
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Dark Azelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
As i said on the server, nothing will be banned until the metagame has been played sufficiently so everyone can gauge a clear opinion on what is and isnt broken. EVERYTHING will be given a fair test you have no idea what is and isnt broken with all the DW abilities and mons released, this is a fresh start on OU so nothing smogon did holds water AT ALL in PC OU period. Its frankly a closed minded way to think at this point. =\ Plus its essentially theorymon. Play it alot then say what you want banned. Im not saying some of those pokes wont get banned but please at least play the metagame before drawing conclusions.


edit:

Also if you'd of played the metagame the unbanned Poke and the DW mons keep each other in very close check as wolf can also attest to. Tech Loom and Iron Fist Conk for example makes Exca sweeping job about 200% harder, Thundurus isnt sweeping with Exca around, Soul Dew Lati check rain and Thundurus. Genesect helps check soul dew lati etc.

If sandveil is so much of a factor we can always ban it since chomp can run Rough Skin so its really not a big deal. But please dont just come in and be all "OH BAN R1 SUSPECTS THEY ARE CLEARLY BROKEN", play the metagame before drawing conclusions because most of the stuff you mentioned there really isnt broken in PC ou at all, its a totally different metagame than when smogon did it so their test holds no water here at all. This is a fresh start.


EDIT 2:
End of the day guys, if you want bans to happen you are gonna have to play. Until then, no bans, sorry as the metagame cant develop not do we have input or anything to go on.
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  #29    
Old June 19th, 2012 (09:43 PM). Edited June 19th, 2012 by Lila..
Lila.
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Sounds like a total waste of time to be frank. There isn't really one suspect that smogon has banned that hasn't had excellent reasoning behind it. I don't see why there should be any more changes involved here. Why is there a need? To make pokecommunity "unique?" That makes little to no sense to me (especially since there are going to be even more shifts in the game once BW2 rolls around, why do we want to do the work when it has already been done for us)? Nothing at all is accomplished by randomly restarting and making a new metagame at the hands of a lower player base.

EDIT: Lol are you serious? Why on Earth would you unban soul dew. I mean, this is essentially dream would ou atm, zero differences between standard dw ou and this. Bar maybe the fact that darkrai, skymin, blaze are already banned in that tier. Talk about being closed minded really. Just because something has one random check doesn't mean that it isn't completely broken. That's why a lot of suspects were banned in the first place. Why would I want to play a metagame that is basically dream would ou????
  #30    
Old June 19th, 2012 (09:54 PM).
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Dark Azelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila. View Post
Sounds like a total waste of time to be frank. There isn't really one suspect that smogon has banned that hasn't had excellent reasoning behind it. I don't see why there should be any more changes involved here. Why is there a need? To make pokecommunity "unique?" That makes little to no sense to me (especially since there are going to be even more shifts in the game once BW2 rolls around, why do we want to do the work when it has already been done for us)?

EDIT: Lol are you serious? Why on Earth would you unban soul dew. I mean, this is essentially dream would ou atm, zero differences between standard dw ou and this. Bar maybe the fact that darkrai, skymin, blaze are already banned in that tier.
I gather you werent around. If you read the OP, currently BW OU is becoming stale with the council taking away community participation on smogon. We wanted something fresh for activity in both the forum and Po so we could do something as a community for once and to make activity better.

If you think its a waste of time dont bother participating in the tests because unles you play you have no valid opinion on what is and isnt broken in the tier. For the 6th time, if you played you would see basically everything keeps everything in check. Nothing smogon does/did holds ANY water in this because it was/is a totally different metagame.

Its attitudes like this why CBC actually blows these days and nothing ever gets done around here and as you can see both here and PO are rotting because people are lazy, stubborn in not only this but rating, battling, participating in tourneys put up by wolf etc. Dont know about you but a few of us have essentially had it up to here with the state of how things are around here and when we try and make a change to do something about it we get bs like this. =/

EDIT: Not Op, this thread http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...=279864&page=1 my bad.
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  #31    
Old June 19th, 2012 (09:59 PM).
Lila.
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You never answered my question. What does it accomplish? Nothing at all... I mean bar community participation, nothing is being accomplished as far as a fairly stable and balanced metagame goes. The smogon council honestly won't be around for that long. The admins who opposed suspect testing have stepped down from smogon, and different forum moderators have advocated for the return of suspect tests. I wouldn't be surprised if suspect testing returned after bw2 is released.
  #32    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:05 PM).
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Exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
I gather you werent around. If you read the OP, currently BW OU is becoming stale with the council taking away community participation on smogon. We wanted something fresh for activity in both the forum and Po so we could do something as a community for once and to make activity better.

If you think its a waste of time dont bother participating in the tests because unles you play you have no valid opinion on what is and isnt broken in the tier. For the 6th time, if you played you would see basically everything keeps everything in check. Nothing smogon does/did holds ANY water in this because it was/is a totally different metagame.

Its attitudes like this why CBC actually blows these days and nothing ever gets done around here and as you can see both here and PO are rotting because people are lazy, stubborn in not only this but rating, battling, participating in tourneys put up by wolf etc. Dont know about you but a few of us have essentially had it up to here with the state of how things are around here and when we try and make a change to do something about it we get bs like this. =/
Now I dont think we need to bash lila because shes new, she obviously knows what shes talking about.

I dont think the tier itself is becoming stale; it's balanced for the most part, which is what smogon seeks to achieve. While I too think it's more boring without a constantly shifting meta, it's at least enjoyable to play albeit not exciting and dynamic. Despite this, I feel like creating our own OU version isnt the way to resolve the stagnancy created from suspect tests being discontinued. As Lila said it's a waste of time, as we'll either ban everything and go towards a completely stallish meta, ban nothing and have every broken pkmn running around which isnt fun since it's basically "who can double switch deo-a in more" or end up with something similar to smogon or dw ou which already existed and we have therefore wasted our time. Simply put we're headed towards a direction in which we either continue to have our own meta be bad or just end up wasting our time emulating a smogon metagame. Also if PC is boring and **** just go to smogon for your battles, you'll find a much higher level of play there and constant competition.
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  #33    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:06 PM).
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Dark Azelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila. View Post
You never answered my question. What does it accomplish? Nothing at all... I mean bar community participation, nothing is being accomplished as far as a fairly stable and balanced metagame goes.
Ive answered this previously, the reason nothing is getting done is because no one is playing it. Part of the reason im frustrated, so we cant achieve balance in any way shape or form until people play it so people can actually gauge opinions.

Community participation and activity is the whole reason we are doing this.
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  #34    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:10 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Ive answered this previously, the reason nothing is getting done is because no one is playing it. Part of the reason im frustrated, so we cant achieve balance in any way shape or form until people play it so people can actually gauge opinions.

Community participation and activity is the whole reason we are doing this.
why not make a league or something then instead of continuing to promote a meta that nobody likes
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  #35    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:11 PM).
Lila.
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So you're trying to gain more community participation and activity by taking at least a decently balanced metagame and ripping it to shreds for the community to put the pieces back together in the same way that they were before? Doesn't sound like something that I'd want to do, or that most other people would want to do either. You can go ahead and play whatever "metagame" you so choose, although this could go a few ways. 1) Nothing gets banned whatsoever or a select few pkmn run the entire metagame into the ground (i.e. darkrai, skymin, manaphy, deo-a, garchomp) or 2) smogon wifi ou is recreated.... There has to be some other way to "gain activity and community participation" other than this really lol.

Oh, and I agree 100% with Karpman's post.
  #36    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:12 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karpman View Post
why not make a league or something then instead of continuing to promote a meta that nobody likes
Thats a tough one....


Wait i know this!

BECAUSE NO ONE PARTICIPATES IN ANYTHING THIS INCLUDES LEAGUES. ._.


EDIT: @ Lila, if you read my previous edit, you'd see the majority of us hate how OU is at the moment and thats the reason this place was dying. So we decided to try something different for a change to shake things up and oh look this has failed too because of stubborn attitudes.
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  #37    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:15 PM).
Lila.
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If no one participates in anything, what makes you think that every random pokecommunity member is going to jump at this fabled opportunity?

EDIT: yeah the whopping 4 posts in this thread who agree with you. The majority of this thread is saying how this will not gain any activity at all and that it's a waste of time.
  #38    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:21 PM).
UTSU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Thats a tough one....


Wait i know this!

BECAUSE NO ONE PARTICIPATES IN ANYTHING THIS INCLUDES LEAGUES. ._.


EDIT: @ Lila, if you read my previous edit, you'd see the majority of us hate how OU is at the moment and thats the reason this place was dying. So we decided to try something different for a change to shake things up and oh look this has failed too because of stubborn attitudes.
Then why would they participate in this

It's obvious that no one likes this.
  #39    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:22 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila. View Post
If no one participates in anything, what makes you think that every random pokecommunity member is going to jump at this fabled opportunity?

Why wouldnt they ? I mean what did we have to lose, we wanted a community and this seemed like the perfect catalyst to build such activities on but no wrong again. =/

EDIT: yeah the whopping 4 posts in this thread who agree with you. The majority of this thread is saying how this will not gain any activity at all and that it's a waste of time.
Once again attitudes like this is why CBC is turning into a festering steaming stinking pile of grade A monkey crap and is essentially dying. =/

EDIT: @ user random, well do you have any better ideas since you know we've tried everything else ?
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  #40    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:26 PM).
Lila.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
BECAUSE NO ONE PARTICIPATES IN ANYTHING THIS INCLUDES LEAGUES. ._.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Why wouldnt they ? I mean what did we have to lose, we wanted a community and this seemed like the perfect catalyst to build such activities on but no wrong again. =/
Choose one or the other. You're contradicting yourself. Will or will they not participate?? Also, what sort of attitude am I exuding that is ruining this forum? Me disagreeing with you is ruining this forum? What?
  #41    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:26 PM).
UTSU
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Apparently no one likes this
  #42    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:32 PM).
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Dark Azelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila. View Post
Choose one or the other. You're contradicting yourself. Will or will they not participate?? Also, what sort of attitude am I exuding that is ruining this forum? Me disagreeing with you is ruining this forum? What?
No people just not participating and saying "OMG DIS SUX" without even
trying it.

Its not contradictory, we are TRYING ideas to make people participate and make this place active. =/

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTSU View Post
Apparently no one likes this
POW CAPTAIN OBVIOUS STRIKES AGAIN!

Really though do you have better ideas or you know....lol ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Karpman View Post
thnx regards
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  #43    
Old June 19th, 2012 (10:38 PM).
Lila.
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So are they going to like it or not!!?!???!?!? You said no one participates, I'm so confused.
  #44    
Old June 20th, 2012 (04:23 AM).
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*munch, munch, munch* I need more popcorn!


Dark Azelf, why do you have such a butthurt? Saying: "hey, we have a new format, it's terrible, but fresh'n'not-smogon, play it, k?" isn't the solution. It won't promote itself. In a Polish forum where I'm a mod of TC/CBC, we have at least one big tournament with serious prizes (RNGed Pokemon and some neat in-game stuff) a month. We have around 20 active players. That's a lot for a small community like ours and still more than in an international giant like PokeCommunity.

In other words: promote the tier with tourneys, not butthurt. Srsly, reading your post, Dark Azelf makes me wanna play less on PC's PO server.

Question: why is CBC so PO oriented? DS is fun!
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  #45    
Old June 20th, 2012 (04:33 AM).
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Exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonz0 View Post
*munch, munch, munch* I need more popcorn!


Dark Azelf, why do you have such a butthurt? Saying: "hey, we have a new format, it's terrible, but fresh'n'not-smogon, play it, k?" isn't the solution. It won't promote itself. In a Polish forum where I'm a mod of TC/CBC, we have at least one big tournament with serious prizes (RNGed Pokemon and some neat in-game stuff) a month. We have around 20 active players. That's a lot for a small community like ours and still more than in an international giant like PokeCommunity.

In other words: promote the tier with tourneys, not butthurt. Srsly, reading your post, Dark Azelf makes me wanna play less on PC's PO server.

Question: why is CBC so PO oriented? DS is fun!
Smiled a bit reading this post because it touched on a lot of issues I think. Simply put, PO is the 'competitive' means of playing this game. You can get better more quickly than you would if you played on DS since you can battle whenever you want and quickly/dont have to wait for an opp. Once you become accustomed to using PO, it will become second nature and you'll see the pros it has over wifi in terms of what it offers as a means of playing competitive pokemon. Dark Azelf really isnt bad most of the time/is a p decent guy and the server can be cool to talk with everyone and become more integrated into the community, if you joined the server and battled on it more frequently then you'd only be adding to CBC's member count.
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  #46    
Old June 20th, 2012 (04:57 AM).
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The problem can be in my timezone - When you start playing, my brain is dead and I have to go to sleep to recharge my batteries. I play PO a lot, but on Smogon server, because it has a great number of users so I don't have to play with up to three people over and over or I play on PC's server with my friend (when it's empty) when we want to test our teams, lol.

Yes, PO makes stuff easier, but why not playing Nintendo's official metagame? Making a team takes up to 10 hours including RNG and EVing. If you're too lazy, pokecheck have tons of public battle-ready Pokemon. Using Random matchup, you don't have to wait long for an opponent, because you can find someone really fast.

I guess I have to open this hermetic box and try hosting a VCG tourney.
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  #47    
Old June 20th, 2012 (05:14 AM).
Exile's Avatar
Exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonz0 View Post
The problem can be in my timezone - When you start playing, my brain is dead and I have to go to sleep to recharge my batteries. I play PO a lot, but on Smogon server, because it has a great number of users so I don't have to play with up to three people over and over or I play on PC's server with my friend (when it's empty) when we want to test our teams, lol.

Yes, PO makes stuff easier, but why not playing Nintendo's official metagame? Making a team takes up to 10 hours including RNG and EVing. If you're too lazy, pokecheck have tons of public battle-ready Pokemon. Using Random matchup, you don't have to wait long for an opponent, because you can find someone really fast.

I guess I have to open this hermetic box and try hosting a VCG tourney.
I assume some people will be on during your timezone; plus its summer and no one goes to sleep so it's more likely even now. PC's server is just a good place to chat also; you dont have to battle all the time. Not much of us play VGC, I myself find it considerably less exciting than singles; you're better off going to skarmbliss or nugget bridge if you want to find vgc battles, plus it probably takes longer to learn RNG and 10 hours for each team you want to use, plus random matchup battles wont always be competitive.
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  #48    
Old June 20th, 2012 (08:58 AM).
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We agreed to make our own metagame because we thought it would be a fun project. Who is we? Well, Anti asked multiple "regulars" at the time (Vrai, Nica, Doronjo, Elf, Poke Viper, Dispenser), and everyone claimed that they would love to get involved and support the project. Basically, we had support from the entire community to create it. Once we actually made it, no one actively battled in the metagame bar Elf, Nica (?), woohoo, and I. I made both the Community Night and PC Tour to encourage testing in PC OU. Turns out the only people that joined the PC Tour, or really battled to begin with, was the four people I just listed. PC OU remained stagnant because no one was willing to try it out, and I don't see the point in banning a Pokémon based off of theorymon. We meant to TEST everything and BATTLE in the metagame before banning, but now everyone is against making our own metagame apparently. Next time, you guys could stay true to your word and actually give your opinion on something before doing it? Thanks.

And to people who think the forum is a mess:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=279864
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=262889

Those threads are there for a reason.
 
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