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  #101    
Old June 11th, 2012, 10:47 PM
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I would have to say Arceus, on the basis that Arceus is the trio master of Dialga and Palkia, which control time and space, respectively. Mew may be the ancestor of all common Pokemon, such as Zubat or Zigzagoon. However, Arceus, as well as Dialga and Palkia, are special, with Giratina even residing in an alternate dimension.
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  #102    
Old June 11th, 2012, 11:33 PM
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I'm pretty sure Arceus has existed longer than any Pokemon so far.
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  #103    
Old June 17th, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Mew was the oldest pokemon I remember before Johto ever existed. So even though Arceus is the Creator of the Universe he doesnt count for being the first, maybe storyline wise yes but not gamer wise.

Maybe the other way round Arceus is the first.
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  #104    
Old June 18th, 2012, 06:54 AM
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Well they say Arceus hatched from an egg. I believe Mew made that egg, since Mew created all pokemon even Arceus.
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  #105    
Old June 24th, 2012, 05:18 AM
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Arceus, it shaped the world so I can't think how Mew could ever create Arceus and the others, so Arceus. IMO
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  #106    
Old June 24th, 2012, 01:31 PM
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I beleive Arceus came first and Created his two trios and than crafted Regigigas to move the lands (a golem was a servant of god in some cases). He than created the Tao trio and Weather trios (yin and Yang were created after the egg cracked while in christianity god created the three beasts Rayquaza and the rest came from) he than sat to creating the cute little Mew species to populate the world which later evolved to the other 600 Pokemon (not counting the one's mentioned before). Than Archelops which came from Mew lead to all the bird Pokemon including Ho-oh, Lugia,ect.
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  #107    
Old June 25th, 2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
I beleive Arceus came first and Created his two trios and than crafted Regigigas to move the lands (a golem was a servant of god in some cases). He than created the Tao trio and Weather trios (yin and Yang were created after the egg cracked while in christianity god created the three beasts Rayquaza and the rest came from) he than sat to creating the cute little Mew species to populate the world which later evolved to the other 600 Pokemon (not counting the one's mentioned before). Than Archelops which came from Mew lead to all the bird Pokemon including Ho-oh, Lugia,ect.
What you said is pretty much exactly what it said on the Wiki but it is also exactly what I think too.
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  #108    
Old June 28th, 2012, 04:13 AM
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Do none of you even consider that these might just be myths?

The people in the games never say any of this as fact, they refer to these as legends.

Arceus can create an egg with a Dialga in it, and even for this legendary equivalent of breeding, it needs hundreds of Unown to accomplish. And you call that a god.
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  #109    
Old July 9th, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by psycodragon View Post
Well they say Arceus hatched from an egg. I believe Mew made that egg, since Mew created all pokemon even Arceus.
I almost died laughing. Ok Arceus created Mew(unless it descended from space like everyone think) And several other legendaries including Groudon, Kyogre and Rayuaza to create land, water and control weather respectively.

Arceus also created Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. I think it also created the dragon that split into Zekrom and Reshiram. So yea Arceus DID create Mew.

As for some of the jokers here that think Mew gave birth to all the Pokemon, it would be hard to imagine Mew giving birth to Groudon's egg. It would also be hard to imagine Mew giving birth to Arceus in spite of how weak it is.
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  #110    
Old July 9th, 2012, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
As for some of the jokers here that think Mew gave birth to all the Pokemon, it would be hard to imagine Mew giving birth to Groudon's egg. It would also be hard to imagine Mew giving birth to Arceus in spite of how weak it is.
It would be hard to imagine for anyone of the mentioned legends to give birth to anything else.

Except for Arceus crating a Palkia&co egg when breeding with tons of Unown of course...
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  #111    
Old July 9th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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I agree with Shootingace. And since Mew is the New Species Pokemon, it makes sense that all other pokemon that aren't the creators of anything (ex. Dialga, or Kyogre) come from Mew. Also explains why Mew can learn every move possible.
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  #112    
Old July 9th, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Arceus is God.Mew is Jesus.
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  #113    
Old July 10th, 2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MiTjA View Post
It would be hard to imagine for anyone of the mentioned legends to give birth to anything else.

Except for Arceus crating a Palkia&co egg when breeding with tons of Unown of course...
I'm pretty sure Arceus didn't BREED with the Unown but just borrowed their power to help shape the universe i.e create the legendary eggs. So Arceus didn't breed. It can't. Unown can't. Therefore :

Arceus came first from the Big Bang egg. It probably needed someone to command so it created billions of Unown to keep it company since Unown will not drain Arceus' power. Then Arceus realized it needed more Pokemon to complete duties so it created the creation trio (Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.)

After they went to their respective dimensions to balance them Arceus wanted to create Earth so then it created Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza ( All the time with the help of THE UNOWN) thus came land and water.

It then created several other legendaries for some unknown purpose after going to sleep because it used all of it's energy.

Simple. Part of this was in the Jewel of Life.

BTW Mew can't learn Judgement which can only be learned by Arceus. Mew can't learn Fusion Bolt nor Fusion Flare. Mew can't learn Bolt strike too.
Actually there are several moves Mew can't learn.
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Last edited by Shootingace; July 10th, 2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Some people just don't get what i say.
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  #114    
Old July 10th, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
I'm pretty sure Arceus didn't BREED with the Unown but just borrowed their power to help shape the universe i.e create the legendary eggs. So Arceus didn't breed. It can't. Unown can't.
Of course it didnt breed. What happened is merely the closest thing we ever got to a legendary equivalent of breeding. The whole ritual would be pointless if they could breed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
Arceus came first from the Big Bang egg. It probably needed someone to command so it created billions of Unown to keep it company since Unown will not drain Arceus' power. Then Arceus realized it needed more Pokemon to complete duties so it created the creation trio (Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.)
The big bang egg is a myth. Just like the absurd and random Arceus' thousand arms.

Creating the Unown, is a story contrived by you just now, with literally nothing to back it up.

Besides it is a logical fallacy, since if it created them, it would not need them to do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
After they went to their respective dimensions to balance them Arceus wanted to create Earth so then it created Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza ( All the time with the help of THE UNOWN) thus came land and water.
Here we go with the classic mixing of those seperate creation myths again.....

The residents of Hoenn don't know the legends of Sinnoh.
The residents of Sinnoh don't know the legends of Hoenn.

The legends are local, because the pokemon they are based on are local.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
It then created several other legendaries for some unknown purpose after going to sleep because it used all of it's energy.

Simple. Part of this was in the Jewel of Life.
What or where does anything remotely imply it created some more random legends after the main makebelieve creation myth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
BTW Mew can't learn Judgement which can only be learned by Arceus. Mew can't learn Fusion Bolt nor Fusion Flare. Mew can't learn Bolt strike too.
Actually there are several moves Mew can't learn.
So? Mew is just some very special pokemon discovered by scientists from Kanto. Never said it should learn anything.

Let me clear it up, both, the myths and the theory are bogus.
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  #115    
Old July 10th, 2012, 02:14 PM
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I'm more persuaded by people arguing for Mew lol, just from reading through this It is confusing though lol
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  #116    
Old July 14th, 2012, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MiTjA View Post


Here we go with the classic mixing of those seperate creation myths again.....

The residents of Hoenn don't know the legends of Sinnoh.
The residents of Sinnoh don't know the legends of Hoenn.

The legends are local, because the pokemon they are based on are local.

Really? The residents of Hoenn don't know the legends of Sinnoh?
Have you ever played Heartgold or Soulsilver?

If you have an event Arceus the Sinjoh ruins will be unlocked. This symbolizes
that the Johto people did know about the Sinnoh legends. So why not Hoenn?
Then right there on the SPOT, Arceus MAKES you an EGG CONTAINING either Dialga, Palkia or Giratina of your choice.

So therefore, you think that the people of Hoenn don't know about Sinnoh legends, but you're very wrong.
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  #117    
Old July 14th, 2012, 06:52 PM
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actually it is quite obvious when you think about it. mew was first because who sais with psychic powers it didnt be there... (God was the beginning and the end the alpha and the omega) he could have made a being stronger then him and also a god can Do anything make anything destroy anything. Mew is said to be able to make anything ask the original creator about his ideas on it he will say mew came first. in the games mew cant learn all the moves yes but the myth sais it can so that is the truth but arceus is limited to few moves. also if it was a god arceus would not need recharges from creating things mew on the other hand can transform create and destroy anything without any recharges. Mew is The true God. also when you think about it arceus can be turned into a statue and almost was so he can die he is a mortal pokemon. he is hard to kill but you can do it. it sais no where or in any videos that mew dies. mew is forever the beginning and the end
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  #118    
Old July 15th, 2012, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
Really? The residents of Hoenn don't know the legends of Sinnoh?
Have you ever played Heartgold or Soulsilver?

If you have an event Arceus the Sinjoh ruins will be unlocked. This symbolizes
that the Johto people did know about the Sinnoh legends. So why not Hoenn?
Then right there on the SPOT, Arceus MAKES you an EGG CONTAINING either Dialga, Palkia or Giratina of your choice.

So therefore, you think that the people of Hoenn don't know about Sinnoh legends, but you're very wrong.
Yes I have. You can add the fact that Arceus uses Unown to achieve that, and Sinnoh is much more related to Johto conceptually.

You could bring up the whateveritscalled tower housing Groudon/Kyogre in HGSS, but that was more a way to give us accessability to those legendaries than anything else.

I chose Hoenn and Sinnoh specifically in my post, because both of them have their own seperate creation myth.
Both have a set of legendaries representing aspects of the real world, and a story of them creating the region they reside in.
This is clearly contradictory if you took the MYTH (=made up story) serious.

Regardless there is still no argument for legendaries being more than powerful ancient rare pokemon.
It is those qualities that inspired the myths and legends.
There are arguments against it though. Like catching them in pokeballs and using them in battles like any other pokemon.


"Capturing it or defeating it will make this world disappear!"
*player catches Giratina*
nothing happens... Cyrus is surprised.

Conclusion: Giratina is simply the only thing that lives in the Distortion world. It didn't create it and it doesn't control it.
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  #119    
Old July 15th, 2012, 06:05 PM
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In my opinion Arceus is god, and 2 mews are Adam and Eve. One mew attacked arceus out of jealousy, and arceus killed that mew.
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  #120    
Old July 15th, 2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MiTjA View Post
Yes I have. You can add the fact that Arceus uses Unown to achieve that, and Sinnoh is much more related to Johto conceptually.

You could bring up the whateveritscalled tower housing Groudon/Kyogre in HGSS, but that was more a way to give us accessability to those legendaries than anything else.

I chose Hoenn and Sinnoh specifically in my post, because both of them have their own seperate creation myth.
Both have a set of legendaries representing aspects of the real world, and a story of them creating the region they reside in.
This is clearly contradictory if you took the MYTH (=made up story) serious.

Regardless there is still no argument for legendaries being more than powerful ancient rare pokemon.
It is those qualities that inspired the myths and legends.
There are arguments against it though. Like catching them in pokeballs and using them in battles like any other pokemon.


"Capturing it or defeating it will make this world disappear!"
*player catches Giratina*
nothing happens... Cyrus is surprised.

Conclusion: Giratina is simply the only thing that lives in the Distortion world. It didn't create it and it doesn't control it.

I see what you're trying to say, but we won't really know until a remake of Ruby and Sapphire comes out. However i still strongly believe that Arceus is truly the creator (However way it did) since it is the strongest Pokemon i have seen both in the anime and the games.

Also if the world crumbles when Giratina is caught because of unbalance in Platinum, the game would end.

Plus were Groudon and Kyogre the ones who created Hoenn? Because Groudon raised continents. While Kyogre raised oceans (which will obviously affect the whole world. Also when Kyogre is awakened in Sapphire, Steven says that the downpour will flood the entire World. Not to mention Rayquaza controls weather, not the weather in Hoenn.
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  #121    
Old July 16th, 2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
I see what you're trying to say, but we won't really know until a remake of Ruby and Sapphire comes out. However i still strongly believe that Arceus is truly the creator (However way it did) since it is the strongest Pokemon i have seen both in the anime and the games.
It is the strongest, but we know exactly how strong it is. The usual uber legendaries are all 670/680, with Kyurem formes reaching 700. (Its probably safe to assume that it would easily surpass Arcues if Kyurem could merge with both dragons..)

Arceus is merely 50-20 points above those.
Another thing I could point out is how all of those legendaries have at least one if not two stats reaching 150 or higher. Arceus doesn't have one, because all those stats are equally distributed across all 6 stats, hence 120*6.

120 attack? Nothing special for a true legendary, unlike KYurems hundred and seventOH MY GOD RUN WE ARE DOOMED.

120 special defense? I think hear a Lugia laughing somewhere.... it's more like a prototype of the uber legendary. A blank, nonspecialized, "Normal", average, all-around, legendary. It doesn't even have a two types, like some other legendaries of this caliber...

Your argument would be valid if Arceus' total stats were like 10000 or something absurdly high like that. But its not.

Its abilities are limited by the same rules as every other pokemon.

It is just the upper extreme of the spectrum of pokemon, not a seperate league.

There is a bigger difference between average pokemon like some Sandslash and the more powerful ones like Dragonite. Arceus is merely a buffed up Mew or similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
Also if the world crumbles when Giratina is caught because of unbalance in Platinum, the game would end.
You are missing the point.
Because Cyrus talks about this. If it was an issue that should be ignored because of game limitations, then why would they insist on putting that dialogue in in the first place?

Give me any explanation for why they made Cyrus state something outrageous just to then make him share the realisation that nothing amazing happens.

Unless they are trying to show that legendaries are just powerful pokemon and not godlike beings at all.
This is the exact intention they have had for this, as far as I can imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootingace View Post
Plus were Groudon and Kyogre the ones who created Hoenn? Because Groudon raised continents. While Kyogre raised oceans (which will obviously affect the whole world. Also when Kyogre is awakened in Sapphire, Steven says that the downpour will flood the entire World. Not to mention Rayquaza controls weather, not the weather in Hoenn.
Groudon doesn't actually raise continents directly, it simply heats the atmosphere, causing drought, evaporating the water and make the land seem to rise.
Just as Kyogre causes heavy rainfall.

They cannot flood the whole world or evaporate all the water, because the planet is round and the amount of water that the atmosphere can be held or be extracted from it, is given.

I didn't see any Rayquaza while travelling Unova, I did however run into some serious crop destroying Hurricanes caused by a certain local legendary. And if that's not serious enough, where was Rayquaza when Reshiram/Zekrom basically destroyed the region?
Simple: that place is none of Rayquazas business.

Or maybe I don't understand well enough what "controls the weather" means. Im curious of elaborations on that.
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  #122    
Old July 17th, 2012, 06:58 AM
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I think Arceus created Mew then Mew created other pokemon
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  #123    
Old July 17th, 2012, 08:19 AM
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I thought Rhyhorn was the first made pokemon by Gamefreak, but since we're talking about Arceus and Mew, I believe Arceus came first because it's supposedly the creator of the pokemon world.
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  #124    
Old July 18th, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Arceus did come first. It created three powerful Pokemon. No other pokemon achieved that feat other than Mewtwo who created Venusaur, Charizard and Blastoise by use of machine.

Mew has never created anything, other than an eyelash that Team Rocket used to create Mewtwo.

Also most of Arceus' godlike power is included in Platinum and Heartgold since in Celestic town it is actually Arceus in the middle with Giratina, Palkia and Dialga surrounding it.
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  #125    
Old July 18th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Arceus is stated to have literally created the Pokemon universe, while mew has been stated to be the ancestor of all Pokemon. My idea is that Arceus created Mew after the lake and creation trio to give life to the universe.
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