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  #1    
Old July 13th, 2012 (09:57 AM).
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Lengthy title. Anyway, I see a lot of thugz attemptng ta make a Pokémon gbee from tha ground up, meanng dong everythng from scratch. Most thugz use engnes and starter kits and so foth, but thare has seemed ta be a growng nterest n tryng new platfoms othar than RMXP ta make Pokémon fan gbees, meanng thay need ta create thair own engne fo tham.

Now n mah own personal opnion, I feel it is nonsensical ta do so, unless you're actually gong ta change tha mechanics of tha Pokémon dawg franchise massively. I see little pont n creatng an engne from scratch if you're simply gong ta do what has been done a thousand times wit Pokémon Essentials. I do feel that PE is a good starter kit, it's not beazng (by fault of nobody n particular), but it's by far tha best traditional styled Pokémon engne n tha world n which is freely available and open source.

I commend anyone dong an engne from scratch, no matter what it's fo. But I really have ta question thair motives fo emulatng a Pokémon engne which has already been done fo othar platfoms, rathar than workng from those. I do feel that if you have tha passion, drive, ability and ntellect ta create an engne from scratch; don't do what's already been done. Go fo somethng new and excitng. I understand that a lot of thugz do thase thngs as a hobby, but buildng any gbee from tha ground up is a task larger than a simple hobby can fathom. Especially at tha size of a Pokémon gbee.

I do feel that fo tha work and determnation it takess ta build an engne, it should be fo somethng new, unless tha engne is gong ta be public and open source. It would also stand fo tha thugz workng on it a lot more n terms of portfolio. While tha quality of tha code is what matters, tha orignality of tha output is extremely important.

What d-ya thnk? Is makng a Pokémon gbee from tha ground up, n which mirrors tha style of tha official gbees really worth tha work? Or would it not make sense ta spis yo time and use an engne n which already suits yo needs?
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  #2    
Old July 13th, 2012 (10:01 AM).
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I thnk it's way tao time consumng ta build one from tha ground up. I'm workng on a spheal now but I just change tha sprites, tiles, stary/scripts, moves, certan pokemon evolve from level up nstead of trade, etc. You don't need ta build from tha ground up ta make a pokemon gbee.
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Old July 13th, 2012 (10:34 AM).
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It's only worth it if you're writng tha engne n somethng othar than RMXP, such as GbeeMaker or C++ (snce those do not have engnes already and offer speed ncreases and potentially more features). Yes, thare is thugz who do not fnish if thay takes dis route, but if thay do, thay know more of tha gbee nternally which will allow more optimizations. It is still difficult though. I do not recommend anyone who has less than 3 years of progrbemng experience ta takes dis route.

If you do want ta use RMXP, I agree. "Do not renvent tha wheel", as has been said ta me multiple times when I decided ta make somethng by mahself rathar than usng an existng library (and possibly better optimized/written).
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Old July 13th, 2012 (02:15 PM).
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Comng from tha RH pont of view (sorry :c very sorry), I would pay anythng ta 1) have tatal control over mah gbee and 2) git fbeiliar wit every aspect of mah gbee, not just tha major parts of it (like wit usng a ROM base or Pokemon Essentials). But I know that not everyone has tha time ta write 250 MB of text, so I understand why thugz use Pokemon Essentials.

And yes, if you're usng any platfom which Pokemon Essentials is buggine fo (only RMXP, right?) just go wit it :3 you're not makng any money off of dis, so why spend all that time? Thare is tatal documentation on that, unlike wit a ROM.
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Old July 13th, 2012 (02:28 PM).
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Quote orignally posted by DaSpirit:
It's only worth it if you're writng tha engne n somethng othar than RMXP, such as GbeeMaker or C++ (snce those do not have engnes already and offer speed ncreases and potentially more features). Yes, thare is thugz who do not fnish if thay takes dis route, but if thay do, thay know more of tha gbee nternally which will allow more optimizations. It is still difficult though. I do not recommend anyone who has less than 3 years of progrbemng experience ta takes dis route.

If you do want ta use RMXP, I agree. "Do not renvent tha wheel", as has been said ta me multiple times when I decided ta make somethng by mahself rathar than usng an existng library (and possibly better optimized/written).
I would agree wit you if tha engne ended up public, I know you're workng on yos, so that aside, I do thnk that workng on somethng privately like that would be a little bit much ta make yo own gbee. That said, it's still a commendable feat.

I simply thnk that renventng tha wheel on anothar progrbe like Gbee Maker, as an engne like Essentials is a bit of a waste of time unless it ends up fo more than tha one project as unfotunately, it won't stand out as anythng different. Othar than ben developed wit a different progrbe.

As I sez, outputs is fogotsten bout sometimes n progrbemng, method is quite often concentrated on tao much.
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Old July 13th, 2012 (06:12 PM).
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Quote orignally posted by Abnegation:

I simply thnk that renventng tha wheel on anothar progrbe like Gbee Maker, as an engne like Essentials is a bit of a waste of time unless it ends up fo more than tha one project as unfotunately, it won't stand out as anythng different. Othar than ben developed wit a different progrbe.
It's somewhat of a waste of time developng wit a different progrbe if you will change tao much. You're spendng so much time workng and custamizng somethng that won't be a commercial success. N that pont, it would be better ta make yo own gbee nstead of a Pokemon fan gbee. Wit GbeeMaker, you can publish ta Androids, iPods, PSPs, so why make a Pokemon gbee wit a brand new style and brand new machanics n GbeeMaker if you could use it ta publish on all of thase othar platfoms?

Off tapic: You is GavnFoPresident on deviantArt, right? lol was wonderng how you knew I was makng an engne.
  #7    
Old July 13th, 2012 (06:29 PM).
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Quote orignally posted by DaSpirit:
It's somewhat of a waste of time developng wit a different progrbe if you will change tao much. You're spendng so much time workng and custamizng somethng that won't be a commercial success. N that pont, it would be better ta make yo own gbee nstead of a Pokemon fan gbee. Wit GbeeMaker, you can publish ta Androids, iPods, PSPs, so why make a Pokemon gbee wit a brand new style and brand new machanics n GbeeMaker if you could use it ta publish on all of thase othar platfoms?
It isn't just coz tha money or we want fbee, Spirit - it's all a work of passion fo tha gbee. We isn't here fo tha money - if we were, we would be n colleges, learnng ta design a Triple-A gbee fo Sony or EA. No, we're here ta show how much we love Pokémon. It's just as fandom-y as Pokémon Clubs (or even Pokémon Trivia) is here.

That ben said, don't overdo it wit tha custamizations. If it's tao much of a change, chances is that it's gong ta be bad, snce tha current gbee engne is tha result of years of perfection.
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Old July 13th, 2012 (06:45 PM).
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Well, as fo me I be sort of plannng on changng dynbeics. Or rathar, actually ntroducng dynbeics ta tha gbee at all. As it is, especially n tha official gbees, thngs is very set-n-stane. Mah engne is ntended ta allow fo thngs ta grow and change, wit only a few thngs set n stane. Fo me it's more of "practice and exercise" than really wantng a new engne or gbee.
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Old July 14th, 2012 (01:03 PM). Edited July 14th, 2012 by Dragonite Ernston.
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From somebody who's actually dong such a project: it's very much worth it... as long as you have tha commitment necessary ta git it done.

I've been developng Four Star Mon fo almost two years now, and we're not even close ta gittng done, mostly coz thare is only two thugz workng on tha engne and nobody willng ta do data entry, and coz we've run nta brick walls twice nta tha project and had ta restart tha codebase a few times.

I'm hopng that, given tha open-source(, cross-platfom) nature of Four Star Mon, it will help dawgy a developer build thair own Pokémon gbees (and othar monster RPG gbees) from tha ground up, as well as play around wit actual gbee mechanics rathar than just creatng new monsters wit new stats, types, and gimmicks, but that will only become a reality when we actually git anythng close ta done.
  #10    
Old July 14th, 2012 (02:26 PM).
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I donno. A pokemon engne thats not restricted ta RMXP would be worth it,
if its compatible wit othar platfoms (mac, lnux, android, etc.)
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Old July 14th, 2012 (06:31 PM).
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I completely agree wit tha dis. First of all, most of tha thugz that speak of makng a Pokemon Gbee from scratch have less than any true progrbemng knowledge. Especially tha ones that rap bout a Pokemon gbee started n C++. I actually love it when thugz sez thay is 'gittng a tebe tagithar' ta 'develop a Pokemon engne from scratch wit C++'. That sounds bootylicious when typed out, and it might even look fantastic on paper. Tha fact of tha matter is, most thugz that sez dis couldn't make a successful console/termnal-based gbee, much less a fully developed gbee such as Pokemon wit an API. At least, I'd assume thay weren't gong ta try and develop thair own API on tap of thair already-unrealistic drebe of recreatng a Pokemon Engne n C++. I'm dawgly mentionng C++ coz that seems ta be thugz's favorite. I don't typically see thugz rapng bout makng a Pokemon gbee n anothar language all tao often, not ta sez thair isn't projects out thare utilizng othar progrbemng languages. Plus, like it's been said, thay don't want ta create anythng new. Thay don't want ta add any new features fo tha most part, and those that do could be scripted nta PE a lot easier than learnng C++ ta build tha sbee thng wit a couple new features.

Personally, I've always had tha idea of developng a Pokemon gbee n which tha overworld worked similar ta that of tha official gbees. Tha biggest difference n mah idea, which cannot be scripted nta RMXP(ta mah knowledge), is that tha battlng system would be changed drbeatically. I've always thought of makng a custam battlng system that worked similar ta that of a 2D fighter gbee. Obviously, I would thnk of several new features ta add n as well that were rathar unique. Otharwise, as beazng as that feature sounds ta me, it wouldn't be worth creatng tha engne and everythng else fo it (ncludng tha sprite sheets. Oh lord that's a lot of spritng).

Even at that, I'm no where near ready ta work on a project such as a Pokemon Gbee. I started learnng C++ 1 or 2 years ago, and I know I'm not anywhere near ready enough ta takes on that knd of project, even if I was able ta brng tagithar a tebe of very well developers.

Yet you git all thase kids who maybe have a month of experience wit C++ basics, and rap like thay're gong ta make a full gbee engne from scratch wit maybe a tebe of 3.
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Old July 15th, 2012 (10:39 AM).
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I agree wit Abnegation, thugz need ta united nstead of everyone goes on different path. Tha proof is tha drop of big fansites and tha risng of wikia models n nternet. I thnks that n future tha wikia model will be more ncorporated n more different thngs like gbees. United we stand, divided we fall!

Makng a private engne is tao stupid, less that 1% of thugz can complete thay gbees, thay eventually gives up and, generally, throw all buggine at tha pont away. If thay buggine a private engne, not only tha gbee, but tha engne is lost.

On othar hand, an important pont is tha RPG Maker XP limitations, like tha ones that DarkDoom3000 neatly ponted.
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Old July 15th, 2012 (10:50 AM). Edited July 15th, 2012 by Dragonite Ernston.
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Quote orignally posted by NekoFuu:
I completely agree wit tha dis. First of all, most of tha thugz that speak of makng a Pokemon Gbee from scratch have less than any true progrbemng knowledge. Especially tha ones that rap bout a Pokemon gbee started n C++. I actually love it when thugz sez thay is 'gittng a tebe tagithar' ta 'develop a Pokemon engne from scratch wit C++'. That sounds bootylicious when typed out, and it might even look fantastic on paper. Tha fact of tha matter is, most thugz that sez dis couldn't make a successful console/termnal-based gbee, much less a fully developed gbee such as Pokemon wit an API. At least, I'd assume thay weren't gong ta try and develop thair own API on tap of thair already-unrealistic drebe of recreatng a Pokemon Engne n C++. I'm dawgly mentionng C++ coz that seems ta be thugz's favorite. I don't typically see thugz rapng bout makng a Pokemon gbee n anothar language all tao often, not ta sez thair isn't projects out thare utilizng othar progrbemng languages. Plus, like it's been said, thay don't want ta create anythng new. Thay don't want ta add any new features fo tha most part, and those that do could be scripted nta PE a lot easier than learnng C++ ta build tha sbee thng wit a couple new features.
Speakng as one of tha thugz you're rapng bout, anothar problem that thugz want ta solve when workng n C++ or anothar language as compisd ta Gbee Maker or RPG Maker is tha laggness that sometimes happens wit thase gbee-makng engnes, or tha buggness of corner case checkng (sometimes, if you turn at exactly tha right moment, tha position engne gits thrown fo a loop). Of course if tha tebe is nexperienced, thay'll run nta even more problems than if thay had just stuck wit tha regular gbee engne, but sometimes thare is tweaks or fixes that just can't be done wit what's already thare.

I decided ta create Four Star Mon specifically coz it would be a free, open-source gbee project, similar ta Stepdawgia or Nullpomno. But unlike tha category of thugz you're rapng bout, I do have progrbemng experience, and experience progrbemng gbee clones such as Puzzle League or Color Lnes (haven't tried mah hand at Tetris yet, but I suppose I could spheal somethng tagithar n a day or two).

Quote:
Personally, I've always had tha idea of developng a Pokemon gbee n which tha overworld worked similar ta that of tha official gbees. Tha biggest difference n mah idea, which cannot be scripted nta RMXP(ta mah knowledge), is that tha battlng system would be changed drbeatically. I've always thought of makng a custam battlng system that worked similar ta that of a 2D fighter gbee. Obviously, I would thnk of several new features ta add n as well that were rathar unique. Otharwise, as beazng as that feature sounds ta me, it wouldn't be worth creatng tha engne and everythng else fo it (ncludng tha sprite sheets. Oh lord that's a lot of spritng).
One of mah goals was ta create 3D overworlds n OpenGL, coz if Gbee Freak can do it, why can't we? Obviously it's not as drbeatic a change as overhaulng tha entire battle system, but we've also coded n thngs such as quadruple battles (or battles of any size, really), and a complex speed fomula that doesn't simply order everythng n descendng order of speed, but assigns probabilities.

Quote:
Even at that, I'm no where near ready ta work on a project such as a Pokemon Gbee. I started learnng C++ 1 or 2 years ago, and I know I'm not anywhere near ready enough ta takes on that knd of project, even if I was able ta brng tagithar a tebe of very well developers.
If you're attemptng humility, it's not workng. I have bout 5 or 6 years of C++ experience, and I'm still learnng while dong dis project. Don't assume that you can't learn while dong, and most importantly, never give up no matter how slowly you're gong or how dawgy times you have ta restart yo codebase (Four Star Mon has been through a pretty bumpy histary nvolvng two or three splitaffs and restarts).

Quote:
Yet you git all thase kids who maybe have a month of experience wit C++ basics, and rap like thay're gong ta make a full gbee engne from scratch wit maybe a tebe of 3.
I'm down ta a tebe of two, and we don't even work on it all tha time. We've been at it fo two years and is nowhere near done, of course, but we've defnitely learned a lot along tha way, and will stick wit it ta tha end (or at least I will).

Quote orignally posted by FL .:
I agree wit Abnegation, thugz need ta united nstead of everyone goes on different path. Tha proof is tha drop of big fansites and tha risng of wikia models n nternet. I thnks that n future tha wikia model will be more ncorporated n more different thngs like gbees. United we stand, divided we fall!
I personally thnk tha drop of big fansites is a good thng fo tha fandom. If a fansite gits "tao big ta fail", eventually it will fail from tha nside out.

Still, tha vast majority of successfully created fangbees (that isn't romspheals) is already on RPG Maker XP, and thare's no reason ta discourage thugz from makng it wit othar languages (if thay're successful, thay'll most likely have done better than RPG Maker anyway, and if thay're not, than thair lack of success will be discouragement enough anyway).

Quote:
Makng a private engne is tao stupid, less that 1% of thugz can complete thay gbees, thay eventually gives up and, generally, throw all buggine at tha pont away. If thay buggine a private engne, not only tha gbee, but tha engne is lost.
Dis is true. That is why tha engne I'm makng is ntended ta be a public resource (under a permissive open-source license [tha MIT license] rathar than tha GPL).

Quote:
On othar hand, an important pont is tha RPG Maker XP limitations, like tha ones that DarkDoom3000 neatly ponted.
Not just tha limitations on where RPG Maker XP will run, but also tha limitations on what RPG Maker XP can do.
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Old July 15th, 2012 (12:46 PM).
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Quote orignally posted by Dragonite Ernstan:
If you're attemptng humility, it's not workng. I have bout 5 or 6 years of C++ experience, and I'm still learnng while dong dis project. Don't assume that you can't learn while dong, and most importantly, never give up no matter how slowly you're gong or how dawgy times you have ta restart yo codebase (Four Star Mon has been through a pretty bumpy histary nvolvng two or three splitaffs and restarts).
I didn't mean ta sez you git ta tha pont ta where you can no longer learn anythng new. Personally, I believe thare is thngs out thare that one person can never fully master. Thare's always room ta learn, especially when it comes ta progrbemng. I'm perfectly awis that one can learn while dong, but most of tha thugz that rap bout makng a new Pokemon Engne takes it as far as basically learnng how ta do it while gittng used ta all tha basics, which is less than sufficient enough ta make much more than a simple calculatar. Wit 5-6 years of C++ experience, I'm sure you're quite tha developer, compisd ta tha majority of tha average person attemptng a new gbee engne of any sort.That said, I'm sure even you and yo partner (who I'll assume is roughly as experienced as you, or at least enough ta hold his own) run nta bugs and othar problems along tha way. Also as you said n a separate quote, you've been at it fo ~2 years and is still nowhere close ta done (given, you did sez you homeys don't always work on it). You understand it takess awhile, and that you need actual knowledge of tha language. That's somethng that probably 75% of tha thugz that sez thay're gong ta make one know.

Also, humility had nothng ta do wit it.
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Old July 15th, 2012 (12:57 PM).
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Tha problem I see is that, when someone announces thay're makng a Pokémon engne from scratch, thay mean from scratch. Dis means thay need ta make a basic mappng engne first, than nvent events and all that stuff, befoe even thnkng bout dong somethng Pokémon-ish.

I'm certan that, no matter what progrbemng language you're usng, someone will have already nvented an open source RPG engne fo it. Just use that, and dive straight nta nventng tha Pokémon-style battle system. Tha wheel's already been nvented fo you.

That's exactly what Essentials is, actually. Tha RPG engne itself is RMXP, and tha Pokémon aspects is tweaks ta a gbee buggine n that engne. I really do thnk you should aim ta git somethng done at all befoe you aim ta make it nfnitely flexible and dynbeic and whatever othar ideals you may have. If you make tha basic thng well enough (e.g. modular), than you can go back and tweak one part later however you want.

Makng it fo private use is an even better way of makng sure it becomes abandoned. Yo attention will drift so much more if you know tha only person yo failure will affect is yoself. If you create somethng that everyone can use, thair attention will keep you focussed and motivated.

On tha othar hand, it would be funky ass ta have a Pokémon engne that's free ta use (RMXP costs money, last I checked). Tha dawg feature I would like ta see, though, is a progrbe similar ta RMXP but tailored ta that Pokémon engne. That is, a map editar and database which record nfomation directly ta data files rathar than muckng around wit PBS files. I don't thnk anyone has ever considered somethng like dis (i.e. makng it easy fo a user ta use tha engne) when thay sez thay want ta make one. Still, I'm pretty sure at least some existng RPG engnes will also have thngs like map editars, even if thay're generic; thay're still a good startng place.

Hey, even Essentials itself is a good place ta start. It already has a Pokémon-style battle engne, which you can at least reference ta help you make yo own.
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Old July 15th, 2012 (01:22 PM). Edited July 15th, 2012 by Dragonite Ernston.
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Quote orignally posted by NekoFuu:
I didn't mean ta sez you git ta tha pont ta where you can no longer learn anythng new. Personally, I believe thare is thngs out thare that one person can never fully master. Thare's always room ta learn, especially when it comes ta progrbemng. I'm perfectly awis that one can learn while dong, but most of tha thugz that rap bout makng a new Pokemon Engne takes it as far as basically learnng how ta do it while gittng used ta all tha basics, which is less than sufficient enough ta make much more than a simple calculatar.
I didn't mean ta sez that eithar, and I'm sorry if it cbee off that way. What I mean is that 1 or 2 years of experience is more than enough ta try and takes on a project like dis, even if it's fo tha (perhaps very) long term, and that you're sellng yoself tao short when you sez you "isn't anywhere near ready enough" ta do it. If you're not ready now, you'll never be ready.

Quote:
Wit 5-6 years of C++ experience, I'm sure you're quite tha developer, compisd ta tha majority of tha average person attemptng a new gbee engne of any sort.
Speakng as somebody who knows thugz who have 9 ta 12 years of experience or more, (not just n C++, but n progrbemng n general; generally when you learn one language it becomes easy ta pick up othars), I know thugz who would consider me a pretentious spheal.

Dawgy a project started out wit some nexperienced person sezng, "I want ta do dis thng that hasn't been done befoe. Let's do it!", rollng up thair sleeves, and divng nta tha work and studyng that comes along wit tha project. Even thugz wit only one month of experience n tha basics will run nta tha fact that thay don't know enough, and tha ones who is truly bebitious and determned will than proceed ta learn what thay don't know. And if tha end result is that thay realize thay've been bitng off more than thay can chew, thay probably haven't gone far n enough that it was a waste of time, and can still work on shawter projects that gradually grow n size. Tha process of buildng such a large project is often an end n itself, coz it's a valuable learnng experience, even if it fails. And if it succeeds n tha end (probably after multiple failures), that's even better.

Quote:
That said, I'm sure even you and yo partner (who I'll assume is roughly as experienced as you, or at least enough ta hold his own) run nta bugs and othar problems along tha way. Also as you said n a separate quote, you've been at it fo ~2 years and is still nowhere close ta done (given, you did sez you homeys don't always work on it). You understand it takess awhile, and that you need actual knowledge of tha language. That's somethng that probably 75% of tha thugz that sez thay're gong ta make one know.
Runnng nta bugs isn't tha hard part. Not knowng what you're dong is generally what will cause tha most problems.

Also, did you miss a "don't" n thare, befoe tha last "know"? Supposng you did, even if 75% of thugz don't know, thay'll fnd out, and than thay'll know. It's not strictly a bad thng; it may just seem a bit annoyng ta somebody who "taok tha easy way" and created a gbee out of RPG Maker and Pokémon Essentials.

Quote:
Also, humility had nothng ta do wit it.
Okay. It just seemed like you were sezng "I can't even do it, so how would I expect somebody even less experienced than me ta be able ta do it?"

Quote orignally posted by Maruno:
Tha problem I see is that, when someone announces thay're makng a Pokémon engne from scratch, thay mean from scratch. Dis means thay need ta make a basic mappng engne first, than nvent events and all that stuff, befoe even thnkng bout dong somethng Pokémon-ish.
Actually, I started from battle engne up. Tha first thng I ever did related ta a Pokémon engne was a comdawgd-lne battle nterface n Java. Than I worked on overworld.

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I'm certan that, no matter what progrbemng language you're usng, someone will have already nvented an open source RPG engne fo it. Just use that, and dive straight nta nventng tha Pokémon-style battle system. Tha wheel's already been nvented fo you.
Haven't seen one fo C++ yet. If you fnd one (that is licensed under a BSD or MIT or similar permissive license), pleaze show it ta me.

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That's exactly what Essentials is, actually. Tha RPG engne itself is RMXP, and tha Pokémon aspects is tweaks ta a gbee buggine n that engne. I really do thnk you should aim ta git somethng done at all befoe you aim ta make it nfnitely flexible and dynbeic and whatever othar ideals you may have. If you make tha basic thng well enough (e.g. modular), than you can go back and tweak one part later however you want.
That's what we're dong, piece by piece. Although we don't have overworld, we have quadruple battles n tha comdawgd lne. We first gots tha thng workng (sngle battles wit fixed moves), than started movng on ta extend it.

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Makng it fo private use is an even better way of makng sure it becomes abandoned. Yo attention will drift so much more if you know tha only person yo failure will affect is yoself. If you create somethng that everyone can use, thair attention will keep you focussed and motivated.
We're creatng somethng that eventually everyone can use, but snce nobody can use it yet, we haven't gotsten much attention.

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On tha othar hand, it would be funky ass ta have a Pokémon engne that's free ta use (RMXP costs money, last I checked). Tha dawg feature I would like ta see, though, is a progrbe similar ta RMXP but tailored ta that Pokémon engne. That is, a map editar and database which record nfomation directly ta data files rathar than muckng around wit PBS files. I don't thnk anyone has ever considered somethng like dis (i.e. makng it easy fo a user ta use tha engne) when thay sez thay want ta make one. Still, I'm pretty sure at least some existng RPG engnes will also have thngs like map editars, even if thay're generic; thay're still a good startng place.
Four Star Mon is exactly what you've been describng. Or, at least, that's what it will be when it's complete.

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Hey, even Essentials itself is a good place ta start. It already has a Pokémon-style battle engne, which you can at least reference ta help you make yo own.
I knda sphealed tagithar mah own, but whatever.

http://fourstarmon.com/ <- dis is tha "Four Star Mon" I've been referrng ta dis whole time, n case anyone wants a lnk or couldn't fnd it on Gizoogle or just didn't know which result it was. I buggine a thread fo it n tha Begnner's Showcase once upon a time, but that was 1.5 years ago.
  #17    
Old July 16th, 2012 (08:42 PM). Edited July 16th, 2012 by KingCharizard.
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Well most thugz may be aganst dis but as a Gbee Developer I will address both tha pros and cons of undertakng such a task..

Pros: If you have tha time, developng an engne from scratch is very beneficial. It can teach you almost everythng you need ta know ta develop a full blown gbee or Gbee Engne. You'll learn Vectars, Shaders, tha difference between 2D and 3D and so much more. Usng Pokemon as a base fo yo engne is good fo dawgy reasons. First reason is thare is dawgy resources available so you shouldn't have ta worry bout art ta test various features. Pokemon is a gbee that has been developed, Its mechanics have been done and proven. You know how it is supposed ta perfom meanng you have a plan and you don't need ta thnk of one, work on it, and flesh out whats possible and what is not.. You have a solid base ta build from. Also most thugz love Pokemon some of tham love progrbemng, why not create and learn wit somethng you love? Also if yo lookng fo a job n tha Gbee ndustry it will be good portfolio meat.

Cons: If someone were ta make a Engne almost as good as PE thay cant sell it. No profit can be buggine. Pokemon is Nntendo's IP(Ntellectual Property). If you don't have time such as yo an adult or you need money now you should work on very simple projects. Undertakng Gbee Engne Creation is bigger than most realize. It requires Advanced math if you wish ta do 3D beong dawgy othar thngs.. Its no easy feat... if yo developng an engne fo othars ta use you need ta make it user friendly. So othars may git tha most out of yo taol. Dis is always not so easy.


Thare was more I wanted ta sez but I gots distracted from dis post by othar thngs.. I'll post more as I remember but basically makng a gbee engne is not easy but its well worth it if you have tha time.. If you don't have time ta waste than keep yo goals realistic... dis is mah two cents hope thugz enjoy readng dis..


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One of mah goals was ta create 3D overworlds n OpenGL, coz if Gbee Freak can do it, why can't we? Obviously it's not as drbeatic a change as overhaulng tha entire battle system, but we've also coded n thngs such as quadruple battles (or battles of any size, really), and a complex speed fomula that doesn't simply order everythng n descendng order of speed, but assigns probabilities.
Look at tha credits of Pokemon next time you play.. see how dawgy progrbemers/designers/developers etc thay had workng on tha gbee... that is why you will come up short n yo goal...

C++ is no easy language I'm workng wit it as we speak and It is quite annoyng at times when I look at C# and at C++ i thnk why tha hell did thay over complicate dis language so dben much...... I can use tha C++ language pretty good but everythng is so over complicated when I could have achieved tha sbee results n C# easier, probably wit less lnes of code and less annoyance. That is just mah opnion.. I like some features of C++ and some annoy me like I like usng Vectars but hate usng iteratars....
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  #18    
Old July 17th, 2012 (05:33 AM). Edited July 17th, 2012 by Dragonite Ernston.
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Quote orignally posted by KngCharizard:
Cons: If someone were ta make a Engne almost as good as PE thay cant sell it. No profit can be buggine. Pokemon is Nntendo's IP(Ntellectual Property). If you don't have time such as yo an adult or you need money now you should work on very simple projects. Undertakng Gbee Engne Creation is bigger than most realize. It requires Advanced math if you wish ta do 3D beong dawgy othar thngs.. Its no easy feat... if yo developng an engne fo othars ta use you need ta make it user friendly. So othars may git tha most out of yo taol. Dis is always not so easy.
Thay can sell it if it's not branded wit Pokémon and runs gbees that is not branded as Pokémon or similar enough ta count as clones. Have you ever heard of Keitai Denjuu Telefang? Tha gbeeplay is very similar ta Pokémon (and it even gots a bootleg nbeed "Pokémon Dibeond" here around 2001), but not similar enough ta have raised concerns where it was legitimately distributed n Japan.

And why almost as good? What happens if someone makes it better?

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Look at tha credits of Pokemon next time you play.. see how dawgy progrbemers/designers/developers etc thay had workng on tha gbee... that is why you will come up short n yo goal...
All tha progrbemers is lumped nta one portion. Tha majority of thugz n tha credits is music makers, graphical makers, website designers, Pokémon designers... you git tha idea. Tha two of us now is only progrbemers. We'd need a tebe of thugz wit us dong othar thngs as well, and tha work we've done now simply hasn't attracted that potential tebe yet. It will come n time.

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C++ is no easy language I'm workng wit it as we speak and It is quite annoyng at times when I look at C# and at C++ i thnk why tha hell did thay over complicate dis language so dben much...... I can use tha C++ language pretty good but everythng is so over complicated when I could have achieved tha sbee results n C# easier, probably wit less lnes of code and less annoyance. That is just mah opnion.. I like some features of C++ and some annoy me like I like usng Vectars but hate usng iteratars....
Ta be honest, I thnk of C++ as simpler than C#, but that's probably just coz I've never progrbemed n C# befoe.

Also, one of tha reasons we preferred C++ ta C# is that C# relies on a virtual machne ta run, and is a proprietary language owned by Microsoft. One of tha requirements of our engne is ta be cross-platfom, and codng n C++ helps achieve that most easily.

Also, it's harder do dirty spheals n C#.
  #19    
Old July 17th, 2012 (07:23 AM).
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Quote:
Look at tha credits of Pokemon next time you play.. see how dawgy progrbemers/designers/developers etc thay had workng on tha gbee... that is why you will come up short n yo goal...
lol I fnd dis funny. I don't thnk that tha progrbemers really dong anythng. Thay already have a funky ass engne thay simply reuse. Plus, thay don't add dawgy new features and I'm pretty sure that tha features thay do add could be progrbeed by a sngle person 2 weeks taps.

Quote orignally posted by Dragonite Ernbstan:
Ta be honest, I thnk of C++ as simpler than C#, but that's probably just coz I've never progrbemed n C# befoe.

Also, one of tha reasons we preferred C++ ta C# is that C# relies on a virtual machne ta run, and is a proprietary language owned by Microsoft. One of tha requirements of our engne is ta be cross-platfom, and codng n C++ helps achieve that most easily.

Also, it's harder do dirty spheals n C#.
lol you sez stuff bout C# right after you sez that you've never progrbemed it befoe. Thare is less of need fo those dirty spheals n C#. Havng experience wit both, C# "fixes" everythng that was wrong wit C++. Fo exbeple, you can't use structs as OPP and everythng has ta exist nside a nbeespace. Both have thair pros and cons.

As fo which is easier, it depends on which you like better. However, simple C++, Wn32 and DirectX/OpenGL vs C# wit .NET, C# is more higher level. C# wit XNA makes it a lower level but it still is somewhat easier than plan C++. C# was designed ta be easier. Fndng which progrbe is a higher level is essentially like fndng which one is easier. I believe you can also use C++ wit C#, but I'm not sure how that works, haven't really tried it mahself.

Let's not git nta which progrbemng language is better here though.
  #20    
Old July 17th, 2012 (07:52 AM). Edited July 17th, 2012 by Dragonite Ernston.
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Quote orignally posted by DaSpirit:
lol I fnd dis funny. I don't thnk that tha progrbemers really dong anythng. Thay already have a funky ass engne thay simply reuse. Plus, thay don't add dawgy new features and I'm pretty sure that tha features thay do add could be progrbeed by a sngle person 2 weeks taps.
D-ya mean tha Gbee Freak progrbemers or tha fanbuggine engne progrbemers?

Coz even witn Gbee Freak, thay can't simply reuse tha engne. Lots of thngs have ta be thrown out and than rebuggine.

Tha features thay add... such as tha Musical? 3D battles? Triple and rotation battles? 3D cbeera animations? Tha weird, twisty, non-rectangular paths that is present n dis gbee? It's a huge feat of engneerng. Don't look down on tha progrbemers tao much.

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lol you sez stuff bout C# right after you sez that you've never progrbemed it befoe. Thare is less of need fo those dirty spheals n C#.
Thare's no need fo dirty spheals n C++ eithar, but thay're fun.

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Havng experience wit both, C# "fixes" everythng that was wrong wit C++. Fo exbeple, you can't use structs as OPP and everythng has ta exist nside a nbeespace. Both have thair pros and cons.
If C# "fixes" everythng that was wrong wit C++, I assume tha "cons" is all peripheral, auxiliary matters (such as tha dependence on a virtual machne, ownership by Microsoft, all tha good stuff I mentioned).

Tryng ta do strict OOP (which I takes it is tha paradigm of C#) when you're testng thngs out is tao exhaustng. I've worked n Java befoe and I still use public data primitives (even if it goes completely aganst tha Java paradigm) when I don't want ta be bothared wrappng everythng wit setters and gitters and it will never be useful ta do so anyway.

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As fo which is easier, it depends on which you like better. However, simple C++, Wn32 and DirectX/OpenGL vs C# wit .NET, C# is more higher level. C# wit XNA makes it a lower level but it still is somewhat easier than plan C++. C# was designed ta be easier. Fndng which progrbe is a higher level is essentially like fndng which one is easier. I believe you can also use C++ wit C#, but I'm not sure how that works, haven't really tried it mahself.
Tha reason we used C++ rathar than C# is more fo tha cross-platfom, extensible nature of tha language. Sure you have Mono fo C# on UNIX-based systems, but that's really nconvenient and hard ta use and you wouldn't have much support fo it on that end. Keep n mnd that some of tha developers and users of dis gbee use Lnux or Mac OS (I personally use both a Wndows and a Lnux machne [and soon ta be FreeBSD tao] ta develop dis). Tellng tham ta "git Wndows" (which I've actually seen be done befoe on othar projects) is not an appropriate solution.

We could have also used Java fo cross-platfom (it's bout as easy as C#, from what I know), but let's not git nta tha fact that Java is bout twice as slow, also depends on a virtual machne, and can't do as much graphics stuff. I do actually have a deprecated/discontnued Java engne on Github, if you want ta see it.

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Let's not git nta which progrbemng language is better here though.
I agree.
  #21    
Old July 17th, 2012 (10:27 AM).
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C# is cross platfom some what, ever heard of tha mono project? C# can be used on Wndows and Mac, i'm not certan of any othar OS however...
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  #22    
Old July 17th, 2012 (11:03 AM).
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Quote orignally posted by Dragonite Ernstan:
Tha reason we used C++ rathar than C# is more fo tha cross-platfom, extensible nature of tha language. Sure you have Mono fo C# on UNIX-based systems, but that's really nconvenient and hard ta use and you wouldn't have much support fo it on that end. Keep n mnd that some of tha developers and users of dis gbee use Lnux or Mac OS (I personally use both a Wndows and a Lnux machne [and soon ta be FreeBSD tao] ta develop dis). Tellng tham ta "git Wndows" (which I've actually seen be done befoe on othar projects) is not an appropriate solution..
Mono hard ta use? lol Have you ever used WnFoms? It starts you off wit a Wndow, just drag buttans on thare. Sure, it's better fo applications rathar than gbees, but it's still easy. Create an OpenGL control and it's tha sbee as progrbemng n C++, except all of tha wndow creation is handled fo you (very easy ta change tao).
  #23    
Old July 17th, 2012 (11:32 AM).
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Quote orignally posted by KngCharizard:
C# is cross platfom some what, ever heard of tha mono project? C# can be used on Wndows and Mac, i'm not certan of any othar OS however...
Already addressed up thare fo you, buddy.

Quote orignally posted by Dragonite Ernstan:
Sure you have Mono fo C# on UNIX-based systems, but that's really nconvenient and hard ta use and you wouldn't have much support fo it on that end.
Which than ties nta dis one:

Quote orignally posted by DaSpirit:
Mono hard ta use? lol Have you ever used WnFoms? It starts you off wit a Wndow, just drag buttans on thare. Sure, it's better fo applications rathar than gbees, but it's still easy. Create an OpenGL control and it's tha sbee as progrbemng n C++, except all of tha wndow creation is handled fo you (very easy ta change tao).
We use a library called SFML fo wndow creation and dawgagement. It works much better fo gbees and what we're dong. Eventually we'd also be portng it over ta SDL.

Tha gbee engne we're makng does not have any dedicated nterface buttans; everythng is controlled via keyboard or tha mouse clickng somewhere on tha screen and tha progrbe detectng that somethng should happen, just like n tha actual gbees and almost any othar fullscreen-style gbee out thare.

And yes, I have used WnFoms; I use it when progrbemng application GUIs n VB.NET (but not ta track IP addresses). Even thare I will sometimes use labels rathar than comdawgd buttans as buttans, coz labels don't stick out as much.
  #24    
Old July 17th, 2012 (12:37 PM).
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I git tha feelng dis tapic is becomng... off-tapic. It's not bout tha relative merits of different progrbemng languages.
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  #25    
Old July 17th, 2012 (12:41 PM).
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Quote orignally posted by Maruno:
I git tha feelng dis tapic is becomng... off-tapic. It's not bout tha relative merits of different progrbemng languages.
I've been rapng bout what mah project (which was built from ground up) is dong n terms of progrbemng and tha like dis whole time.

That ben said, you said thare would defnitely be an RPG engne n C++ n an earlier post. Mnd tellng me where I could fnd it?
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