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  #1    
Old July 17th, 2012, 03:50 AM
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Honestly, i believe Pikachu and Ash are done. After the lengths the writers went to in making Ash lose to Tobias in a one sided semi-final in D/P was appalling, i mean come on! They should make him win a tournament and launch a new series 5-10 years in the future with a new trainer just starting out, and Ash as the Kanto champion or something..

i know a majority of people are just going to say i'm whining and should just get over it, or that Ash and Pikachu are always going to be the face of the pokemon franchise...

Overall i'm asking for people to post their ideas on whether or not they believe that the characters should change and a reason why.

so yeah, thanks for reading :D

Last edited by Kenshin5; August 5th, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
  #2    
Old July 17th, 2012, 04:00 AM
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I don't want them to change. Most of us have followed Ash through his adventure since it began and it wouldn't be right to change the main protagonist now. Like you said, Ash and Pikachu are the faces of Pokemon, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. And I believe if they did change the faces of Pokemon that a lot of fans would be unhappy and the anime would possibly lose a huge load of viewers.

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  #3    
Old July 17th, 2012, 09:55 PM
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Since Ash/Satoshi is pretty much Satoshi Tajiri as a kid in cartoon form, I highly doubt they'll replace him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Deoxys View Post
Honestly, i believe Pikachu and Ash are done.
Why? Just because he wins a Pokemon League Tournament doesn't mean his story is over. Tournament Champion is not the title he wants, nor is Regional Champion. He wants to be a Pokemon Master. We could very well see much more from Ash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Deoxys View Post
After the lengths the writers went to in making Ash lose to Tobias in a one sided semi-final in D/P was appalling, i mean come on!
That battle with Tobias proved that Ash was the second strongest trainer in the tournament. Ash remains the only known person to ever KO Tobias's Darkrai. No one even knew if Tobias had any other Pokemon besides Darkrai.

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Originally Posted by G Deoxys View Post
They should make him win a tournament and launch a new series 5-10 years in the future with a new trainer just starting out, and Ash as the Kanto champion or something..
A new trainer would just be an Ash clone anyway. Ash is the star of the anime and has been since Episode 1.

=====

I'm seeing more and more "replace Ash" and "Mature Pokemon" topics, all because of that trailer for Black 2 and White 2. I think people need to realize that Ash isn't going anywhere, and Pokemon will never go Mature. It's been a kids show from the start. If people can't enjoy it as a kids show, then they should just get out of Pokemon. Pokemon doesn't have to change.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 12:08 AM
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I can see where you are coming from O: I kinda feel the same about ash but they are still fun
The idea of ash being the champion and having a "in the future" series doesnt sound so bad O: Maybe for the new generation of Pokemon? I mean ash has been there for a long time and still has the same age, i believe its 10 xD
An adult ash would also be nice, maybe his son can be the protagonist? xD I heard they wont stop until the national pokedex hits 1000 pokemon so we still have time for change!
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  #5    
Old July 18th, 2012, 01:49 AM
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Ash seems to provide a self insertion point for viewers more than anything else. I notice he doesn't make the greatest decisions in combat either, which is probably to help younger audiences say "hey Ash, what are you doing!". He is meant to be flawed, but is shown to learn from his mistakes many times as well. (his voice actor needs work though, imho)
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Last edited by Tetrakeet; July 18th, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
  #6    
Old July 18th, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Somewhat I am sick of Ash but I can deal with him.
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  #7    
Old July 18th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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I really don't think they should, and highly doubt that it'll ever happen. Of course the show is called Pokémon and is mainly about the Pokémon, though it's following Ash's story and his quest to becoming a Pokémon master, so replacing Ash and Pikachu would be more like ending the show and starting it completely over, and I don't think people would be too happy with that, considering a lot of people grew up with Ash and Pikachu.

I mean, just think how upset people have been with Misty and Brock leaving. They were both main characters, but they were also a tad of supporting characters. Ash is the main protagonist, and though there are many people that don't like him and the way he battles, I think the majority have grown attached to him. And Pikachu is kind of the mascot for the whole franchise, there is like no one who doesn't know the Pokémon Pikachu, even if they aren't familiar with the franchise.

Also, as much as I want to see an anime based off of the B2W2 animated trailer, I wouldn't in any way want to see the current anime replaced.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 10:38 AM
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If they wanted to replace Ash, they should have done it after Sinnoh, imo. He was nearly done with that, and they nearly rebooted the anime at the start of BW. It would have been perfect. Unova is probably the best point to have a reboot anime, so Ash would have been done at that. Besides, I'm still firm about Ash winning in the Sinnoh League. He could have won, called him a Pokemon Master, and move on to the next ten year old in line. Why? Because at this point, most of the Pokemon fans from the beginning were already dropping the franchise, so a newer audience was starting to watch the anime. This is why I don't see how people wouldn't be all that pissed off if Ash was dropped. They're not watching the anime anymore. The Pokemon anime is geared towards kids about Ash's age.

His personality is intolerable, because it's the same every region without any sort of development. Actually, any development that he goes through is thrown out the window once the next region comes around. I hate that. I wouldn't mind keeping Ash around if he actually developed and learned a thing or two, but he's completely static. That's why I want him gone. Even if the next protagonist is a carbon copy of Ash, at least it's a new design I'd get used to, or possibly a personality shift, which would be a lot better. I loved the Raikou: Legend of Thunder! mini-series, because I got to see a whole new situation in Pokemon with the characters, like Jimmy having a romantic interest and stuff. That's something new.

Of course, there's the issue of Ash & Pikachu being the mascots, but I don't see that as too much of a problem. If it really mattered, Ash could be a recurring character in the anime, or at least mentioned every now and then, so some viewers would be content with that. On the flip side, some won't be happy with that, but you can't please every single fan out there, so why try?

In short, they could have thrown Ash away and dealt with him relatively easily. Instead, the writers kept the 'safest' option and kept him in the mix for a good while to come. I'd have loved to see him gone, and still do, but they missed their chance. Damn you, Pokemon.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
If they wanted to replace Ash, they should have done it after Sinnoh, imo. He was nearly done with that, and they nearly rebooted the anime at the start of BW. It would have been perfect. Unova is probably the best point to have a reboot anime, so Ash would have been done at that.
Unless they have no plans to dump him after 15 years of hundreds of episodes and 15 or 16 movies. He is based off of Satoshi Tajiri himself after all.

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Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
Besides, I'm still firm about Ash winning in the Sinnoh League. He could have won, called him a Pokemon Master, and move on to the next ten year old in line.
Winning a League tournament doesn't mean he's a Pokemon Master. All that does is allows the winner to challenge the Elite 4 and Champion. And again, why replace the character based on the creator after 15 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
Why? Because at this point, most of the Pokemon fans from the beginning were already dropping the franchise, so a newer audience was starting to watch the anime.
And most of the new audience have no idea what Ash did in Kanto, Johto, or Hoenn. Possibly Sinnoh, but probably not. The older fans by now are grown adults who could probably care less about the show.

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Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
This is why I don't see how people wouldn't be all that pissed off if Ash was dropped. They're not watching the anime anymore. The Pokemon anime is geared towards kids about Ash's age.
Exactly, the older audience doesn't watch the show anymore (well, most of them), so there's no concern with replacing a character when the new audience probably doesn't know about his earliest adventures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
His personality is intolerable, because it's the same every region without any sort of development. Actually, any development that he goes through is thrown out the window once the next region comes around. I hate that.
I don't think the show is meant to be watched all the way through. The original audience was expected to watch through Kanto. After 4 or 5 years, that group is not longer in the target demographic, so they move on to the next region. The show just appeals to whoever is between 6-11 years old at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
I wouldn't mind keeping Ash around if he actually developed and learned a thing or two, but he's completely static.
The anime just promotes the game and can't truly retain all his skills or he'll just destroy everyone, like he did when he first started in Johto with Charizard on his team. Actually, the fact that he decides to go to a region completely blind as to the Pokemon he will encounter is impressive, like he decides to learn as much as he can about each regions Pokemon without relying on old strategies that may no longer work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
That's why I want him gone. Even if the next protagonist is a carbon copy of Ash, at least it's a new design I'd get used to, or possibly a personality shift, which would be a lot better. I loved the Raikou: Legend of Thunder! mini-series, because I got to see a whole new situation in Pokemon with the characters, like Jimmy having a romantic interest and stuff. That's something new.
That's why they started changing his outfit, to give him a fresh look for the audience to get use to. I liked Jimmy (mostly because he was voiced by Sean Schemmel) but he was still basically Ash with different clothes. The romance stuff...relationships are good when the show is based on them, but we all know Pokemon is about the Pokemon. The trainers teach the lessons it seems but the Pokemon are the reason anyone watches the show/movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
Of course, there's the issue of Ash & Pikachu being the mascots, but I don't see that as too much of a problem. If it really mattered, Ash could be a recurring character in the anime, or at least mentioned every now and then, so some viewers would be content with that. On the flip side, some won't be happy with that, but you can't please every single fan out there, so why try?
But why take a risk when you know the current plan is working? Ash and Pikachu work, and they've worked since the start. Kids love them. Like they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
In short, they could have thrown Ash away and dealt with him relatively easily. Instead, the writers kept the 'safest' option and kept him in the mix for a good while to come. I'd have loved to see him gone, and still do, but they missed their chance.
Again, when it comes to business, you don't take unnecessary risks. You do what works. If Ash still has a strong following and is selling merch, they have no need to get rid of him. So there was no "chance" to get rid of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyanic View Post
Damn you, Pokemon.
See, this is what I don't get. People actually seem to be building legit hate for the anime because they won't replace Ash. Akira Toriyama tried to replace Goku in Dragon Ball with Gohan and Goten, but the fans weren't happy about it, so Goku was brought back.
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  #10    
Old July 19th, 2012, 02:41 AM
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First off, if you want Ash replaced because you want someone with a better personality or a more mature series, you should probably just stop. Replacing him won't change the tone of the series, and the new replacement is still going to be our generic shonen hero. That won't change.

If you want Ash to be changed out because of growth, I can go with that. I agree that if there was a time for Ash to be finished, it was in Sinnoh. However, that's not because I think he's ready to be a champion or he's grown all he's could, it's just he grew period. In Sinnoh, Ash matured quite a bit in his rivalry with Paul, and he almost seemed older.
Then that gets thrown out with Best Wishes. He's not your normal reckless stupid, he's just silly stupid. I can take silly stupid, as he had that in the original series alongside recklessness, but he was also mischievous in the original. It's taken Ash awhile, but he slowly changed and matured from the original series to Sinnoh.

Best Wishes Ash is such a redesign and flubbed up backtracking, I pretty much consider him a different character anyway. They might as well designed a new character. Iris and Cilan are also so different in their game personalities that they might as well designed new traveling companions as well.

So originally, I was going to say that I don't think Ash should be replaced because it would be useless in producing something new. But I've just figured out I don't think he should be changed because he was already changed.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lornami View Post
First off, if you want Ash replaced because you want someone with a better personality or a more mature series, you should probably just stop. Replacing him won't change the tone of the series, and the new replacement is still going to be our generic shonen hero. That won't change.

If you want Ash to be changed out because of growth, I can go with that. I agree that if there was a time for Ash to be finished, it was in Sinnoh. However, that's not because I think he's ready to be a champion or he's grown all he's could, it's just he grew period. In Sinnoh, Ash matured quite a bit in his rivalry with Paul, and he almost seemed older.
Then that gets thrown out with Best Wishes. He's not your normal reckless stupid, he's just silly stupid. I can take silly stupid, as he had that in the original series alongside recklessness, but he was also mischievous in the original. It's taken Ash awhile, but he slowly changed and matured from the original series to Sinnoh.

Best Wishes Ash is such a redesign and flubbed up backtracking, I pretty much consider him a different character anyway. They might as well designed a new character. Iris and Cilan are also so different in their game personalities that they might as well designed new traveling companions as well.

So originally, I was going to say that I don't think Ash should be replaced because it would be useless in producing something new. But I've just figured out I don't think he should be changed because he was already changed.
So basically,Best Wishes is being treated as the Kanto region of this decade where Ash is back to his newbie self (possibly worst than a newbie) and all the character development than occured in him over the past generations is gone.Now the whole cycle will repeat itself till he gains back his former glory...
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 06:39 AM
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The only thing i'm saying that as a longtime pokemon fan since the beginning, it's jarring to see ash still nowhere closerr to becominga pokemon master than he was 15 years ago...
  #13    
Old July 24th, 2012, 09:39 AM
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I would like to see it change, but not by getting rid of Ash and Pikachu. But by letting them develop somewhat. Let him win a major tournament. I think it would make everything just feel a little more... I don't know the word for it. But that wouldn't stop the anime if he won, I would very much like to continue watching Ash post-winning, and continuing some sort of adventure.

I know it will most likely never happen, but y'know. I can hope.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 07:19 PM
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Honestly if they should've changed Ash, it should've been done BEFORE Hoenn, I mean he looks nothing like any of the canon game characters from Hoenn on. He kind of looked a bit like Red, and slightly like Gold, but once Ruby stepped in it kind of felt way off. I would've liked it if Brandon started doing his stuff in the anime with May... I mean he got his movie cameos as well as Lucas... Not only that but the Black/White 2 animations are just incredibly amazing... the effort put into the animated shorts were just insanely superior to anything ever created in the TV show...
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Old July 24th, 2012, 11:20 PM
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I hated Ash past the age of 7.
But he'll never be changed or replaced, simply because they will not take a risk like that. They should've swapped him a long time ago, back when he was still in Kanto. But hey, whatever.
It's odd, because obviously Ash isn't getting older, either. Adding in a new protagonist for each region could've been a very nice idea.
I really wish they'd make a series that looked like those B and W 2 promos. I could tell my parents for once I actually want to watch Pokemon.
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Old July 27th, 2012, 10:18 AM
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I have mixed feelings. I would miss Ash a lot, but I bet they would do a good job with a new character. Maybe have a Pokemon as a main character?
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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:07 PM
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I don't see why the should change him, other than that a few fans hate him. The cons of doing so would probably outweigh the pros, plus, Ash is probably one of the most generic hero trainers they could make, so I'm pretty sure changing the main character wouldn't really make a difference and even if they would "change" Ash's personality it wouldn't really change a whole lot.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 02:24 AM
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This is what YuGiOh does in every new season, forwards 10-50 years into the future and brings new characters. I belive is a good idea, it would at least help with random inconsistences like why Pikachu becomes much weaker at the start of every new generation.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:53 AM
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I do not think they will change, it has been this way for 15 seasons right ? o - o
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:33 AM
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Unless they have no plans to dump him after 15 years of hundreds of episodes and 15 or 16 movies. He is based off of Satoshi Tajiri himself after all.
Yeah, and Red in the Pokemon Special manga, like Ash, was based on Satoshi Tajiri as well, and yet he still got replaced.

Quote:
Winning a League tournament doesn't mean he's a Pokemon Master. All that does is allows the winner to challenge the Elite 4 and Champion. And again, why replace the character based on the creator after 15 years?
Two and a Half Men's main character was based on Charlie Sheen, yet they removed him from the series and replaced him despite being in effect the main character. Heck, Red from Pokemon Special, like Ash, was based on Satoshi Tajiri, yet the manga creator had absolutely no qualms replacing him, and that manga's still running in Japan at least.

Quote:
And most of the new audience have no idea what Ash did in Kanto, Johto, or Hoenn. Possibly Sinnoh, but probably not. The older fans by now are grown adults who could probably care less about the show.
There's a thing known as reruns and DVD boxed sets, meaning that the younger generation could easily catch up. And besides, that didn't stop them from flashing back to characters who the current generation should have absolutely no idea without context anyway.

Quote:
Exactly, the older audience doesn't watch the show anymore (well, most of them), so there's no concern with replacing a character when the new audience probably doesn't know about his earliest adventures.
Except the series implies that he's been through the journey for quite some time, and I'm pretty sure even a four year old would not take someone seriously who acts stupidly when he's supposed to be a seasoned veteran.

Quote:
I don't think the show is meant to be watched all the way through. The original audience was expected to watch through Kanto. After 4 or 5 years, that group is not longer in the target demographic, so they move on to the next region. The show just appeals to whoever is between 6-11 years old at the time.
If the show was not meant to be watched all the way through, they shouldn't have made Ash the main character in the first place, and thus they should have removed Ash when they had the chance long beforehand. Heck, they wouldn't have had the "To Be Continued" messages throughout the show if that were the case.

Quote:
The anime just promotes the game and can't truly retain all his skills or he'll just destroy everyone, like he did when he first started in Johto with Charizard on his team. Actually, the fact that he decides to go to a region completely blind as to the Pokemon he will encounter is impressive, like he decides to learn as much as he can about each regions Pokemon without relying on old strategies that may no longer work.
Maybe, but there's a fundamental difference between simply swapping out pokemon for new ones, and acting completely unfamiliar with the environment you're supposed to have been a veteran at. Think of Ash's position as a trainer as being, like, a football coach, or even a commander of a battalion, for example. A football coach, if he ends up being transferred to another team, will usually give pointers and strategies to the team he commands that helped him win the previous time. It's called using your experiences to aid in succeeding. I mean, would you take someone seriously who, despite supposedly being experienced and a hard veteran at something, is completely stupid in regards to the thing they're supposed to be experts at? I wouldn't, and I doubt most kids would.

Quote:
That's why they started changing his outfit, to give him a fresh look for the audience to get use to. I liked Jimmy (mostly because he was voiced by Sean Schemmel) but he was still basically Ash with different clothes. The romance stuff...relationships are good when the show is based on them, but we all know Pokemon is about the Pokemon. The trainers teach the lessons it seems but the Pokemon are the reason anyone watches the show/movies.
And therefore, Ash truly isn't necessary in the grand scheme of things, and so should be replaced. If Pokemon is truly the sole point of the show, then none of the human characters are truly important, and thus they would replace even Ash simply because he is a human.

Quote:
But why take a risk when you know the current plan is working? Ash and Pikachu work, and they've worked since the start. Kids love them. Like they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Except it IS Broken. Otherwise, the ratings would not have decreased.

Quote:
Again, when it comes to business, you don't take unnecessary risks. You do what works. If Ash still has a strong following and is selling merch, they have no need to get rid of him. So there was no "chance" to get rid of him.
In case you haven't noticed, the ratings are actually PLUMMITING since Johto, at the earliest, getting worse, so what they are doing IS ruining their business.

Quote:
See, this is what I don't get. People actually seem to be building legit hate for the anime because they won't replace Ash. Akira Toriyama tried to replace Goku in Dragon Ball with Gohan and Goten, but the fans weren't happy about it, so Goku was brought back.
Yeah, and they constantly replaced the main characters of Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh multiple times, and they replaced the characters in Pokemon Special more than once, and that didn't decrease the ratings nor did it result in complaints as far as I know.

And even if that action did doom the show, so what? There hasn't been a Mario cartoon since Super Mario World, yet the Mario franchise was still continuing. Same deal with the Zelda series and the Megaman series, and it will certainly be the same with the Pokemon franchise even if the Anime dies.

And the amount of seasons he's been in mean absolutely nothing as to whether he'd be immune to being replaced, really. Brock had the second longest run of the protagonists only to Ash, yet he still was replaced and retired. Likewise, on the inverse, Brock's mom hadn't even been mentioned since the fifth episode of the original series/the entire series, and yet she still appeared nearly nine seasons later (six, counting the Hosos), and Jessiebelle took 9-12 seasons before she returned.

Unless the writers seriously make Ash actually seem competent at the profession he was supposed to be a veteran at (like Solid Snake was in Metal Gear Solid 2), they honestly should not keep Ash in the show.
  #21    
Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:59 AM
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Yeah, and Red in the Pokemon Special manga, like Ash, was based on Satoshi Tajiri as well, and yet he still got replaced.
I've never seen anything that stated Red was specifically based on Tajiri himself. Red is supposedly this unbeatable trainer, while Ash is the kid with a dream. Totally different characters.

Still, 15 years is a long time. If they haven't replaced him after that long, 5 regions, and 649 Pokemon, I doubt he'll be replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Two and a Half Men's main character was based on Charlie Sheen, yet they removed him from the series and replaced him despite being in effect the main character. Heck, Red from Pokemon Special, like Ash, was based on Satoshi Tajiri, yet the manga creator had absolutely no qualms replacing him, and that manga's still running in Japan at least.
Replacing a live action actor and replacing an animated character are two different things. They didn't replace Ash when Veronica Taylor and the rest of the original actors were recast. Sheen got the idea he was greatness and deserved more than he was getting, which got him replaced. Though, from what I've heard, the show isn't doing as well without him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
There's a thing known as reruns and DVD boxed sets, meaning that the younger generation could easily catch up. And besides, that didn't stop them from flashing back to characters who the current generation should have absolutely no idea without context anyway.
Cartoon Network isn't rerunning anything before Best Wishes to my knowledge anymore. I know they reran some of Diamond and Pearl for a while, but I think that's over. Boomerang is showing Hoenn, but not everyone has Boomerang. And not everyone will buy DVDs. Kids are only going to care about whatever they can watch on TV. The show is designed so that kids can get into whichever the current Generation it is in without concern for pervious Generations. Best Wishes was basically a "reboot" or "fresh start" of sorts, which is why a lot of the ties from the rest of the show were cut, which might explain why Brock was also replaced this time. Everything was supposed to feel new for Gen 5, even with Ash and Pikachu returning.

The flashbacks and returns basically are there for any older fans. But regardless, it doesn't matter. Kids can catch up if they want, the internet makes that fairly easy to just read up on characters, but there's nothing preventing anyone from enjoying the show.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Except the series implies that he's been through the journey for quite some time, and I'm pretty sure even a four year old would not take someone seriously who acts stupidly when he's supposed to be a seasoned veteran.
Except Ash is still 10, not 20, not 30. He's a kid, he's not supposed to be perfect. Kids mess up, it's how they learn. But "stupidity" is not an accurate word for Ash. He's always made mistakes, his biggest (and one he made quite frequently) was trying to use Charizard when he knew it wouldn't listen to him. It cost him the first Pokemon league and several other battles. Any other mistakes, like the ones in Best Wishes, are just for explaining how Pokemon works, such as having to weaken Pokemon before catching them, or Ground types being uneffected by Electric attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
If the show was not meant to be watched all the way through, they shouldn't have made Ash the main character in the first place, and thus they should have removed Ash when they had the chance long beforehand. Heck, they wouldn't have had the "To Be Continued" messages throughout the show if that were the case.
I doubt Game Freak expected people to hate the anime just because they kept Ash and didn't age him. It's just a cartoon, so I don't really know why people get so upset over it. Game Freak probably expects teens and adults to get out of Pokemon, because most people do move past video games and cartoons.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Maybe, but there's a fundamental difference between simply swapping out pokemon for new ones, and acting completely unfamiliar with the environment you're supposed to have been a veteran at. Think of Ash's position as a trainer as being, like, a football coach, or even a commander of a battalion, for example. A football coach, if he ends up being transferred to another team, will usually give pointers and strategies to the team he commands that helped him win the previous time. It's called using your experiences to aid in succeeding. I mean, would you take someone seriously who, despite supposedly being experienced and a hard veteran at something, is completely stupid in regards to the thing they're supposed to be experts at? I wouldn't, and I doubt most kids would.
"Completely stupid"? He now has 8 Unova badges, so he's qualified for the Unova League, not to mention he's doing well in the World Tournament Junior Cup. People act as if he is a complete failure when he isn't. And again, I wouldn't expect a 10 year old to be a Pokemon Master and defeat Champions like Cynthia or Alder.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
And therefore, Ash truly isn't necessary in the grand scheme of things, and so should be replaced. If Pokemon is truly the sole point of the show, then none of the human characters are truly important, and thus they would replace even Ash simply because he is a human.
Except Ash's role is being the ideal trainer, not in terms of winning and losing, though he always makes it to the League, but as a trainer who loves and cares for his Pokemon. Everyone just wants to see a dominate force in the series, which would be extremely predictable.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Except it IS Broken. Otherwise, the ratings would not have decreased.
Last I heard, the ratings for Best Wishes are pretty steady. It's a 15 year old show, it can't be the best forever. The only reason the ratings would decrease is the original fans leaving the anime, but the fans from the 90s are all adults now so it's expected. There are still plenty of kid fans that continue to watch the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
In case you haven't noticed, the ratings are actually PLUMMITING since Johto, at the earliest, getting worse, so what they are doing IS ruining their business.
Pokemon is supposedly still one of the most watched shows in Japan, but ratings are decreasing for all shows, probably due to them being available on the internet. Their business isn't being ruined, if that were true, they'd end the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Yeah, and they constantly replaced the main characters of Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh multiple times, and they replaced the characters in Pokemon Special more than once, and that didn't decrease the ratings nor did it result in complaints as far as I know.
I've seen several people say Yu-gi-oh wasn't the same without Yugi, and I agree. I tried to stay with the second series with Jaden, but lost interest halfway through. Didn't really care for the last Yu-gi-oh with the motorcycles either. And Digimon isn't on TV anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
And even if that action did doom the show, so what? There hasn't been a Mario cartoon since Super Mario World, yet the Mario franchise was still continuing. Same deal with the Zelda series and the Megaman series, and it will certainly be the same with the Pokemon franchise even if the Anime dies.
If you ran a cartoon with a steady fanbase aimed at young CHILDREN, would you want to make the show more violent, especially if you were counting on selling merch with these characters and creatures faces on them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
And the amount of seasons he's been in mean absolutely nothing as to whether he'd be immune to being replaced, really. Brock had the second longest run of the protagonists only to Ash, yet he still was replaced and retired. Likewise, on the inverse, Brock's mom hadn't even been mentioned since the fifth episode of the original series/the entire series, and yet she still appeared nearly nine seasons later (six, counting the Hosos), and Jessiebelle took 9-12 seasons before she returned.
Brock wasn't the Lead character either. The entire Pokemon is this: Ash's journey to become a Pokemon Master. Everyone else (human-wise) is extra.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Unless the writers seriously make Ash actually seem competent at the profession he was supposed to be a veteran at (like Solid Snake was in Metal Gear Solid 2), they honestly should not keep Ash in the show.
He's 10. Do you really expect a 10 year old to be a master at anything? And do we really need to compare Pokemon to Metal Gear Solid? Snake and Ash are nothing alike at all.
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  #22    
Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:50 AM
weedle_mchairybug
 
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Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
I've never seen anything that stated Red was specifically based on Tajiri himself. Red is supposedly this unbeatable trainer, while Ash is the kid with a dream. Totally different characters.

Still, 15 years is a long time. If they haven't replaced him after that long, 5 regions, and 649 Pokemon, I doubt he'll be replaced.
Ash was based on Red (in case you haven't noticed, Red's original artwork bore a lot of resemblance to Ash), so if a equals b and b equals c, then a equals c, hence how Red is based on Tajiri. Circular logic.

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Replacing a live action actor and replacing an animated character are two different things. They didn't replace Ash when Veronica Taylor and the rest of the original actors were recast. Sheen got the idea he was greatness and deserved more than he was getting, which got him replaced. Though, from what I've heard, the show isn't doing as well without him.
That, as well as drug problems, but then again, I read a TV Guide article that implies that the guy who created the show was "winning" despite Sheen's removal. And I should point out that I don't even like Two and a Half Men (it's really morally disgusting, really, even without Sheen's antics on the show).

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Cartoon Network isn't rerunning anything before Best Wishes to my knowledge anymore. I know they reran some of Diamond and Pearl for a while, but I think that's over. Boomerang is showing Hoenn, but not everyone has Boomerang. And not everyone will buy DVDs. Kids are only going to care about whatever they can watch on TV. The show is designed so that kids can get into whichever the current Generation it is in without concern for pervious Generations. Best Wishes was basically a "reboot" or "fresh start" of sorts, which is why a lot of the ties from the rest of the show were cut, which might explain why Brock was also replaced this time. Everything was supposed to feel new for Gen 5, even with Ash and Pikachu returning.
They also have video streaming sites such as Youtube or NDN, it's not like people can't watch them there. And besides, they can find DVD boxed sets at their local retailer store, whether it be Walmart, Target, Best Buy, even a Mom & Pop shop if needs be. There's also Ebay and Amazon for online people, so it's not like kids can't get the DVDs. And either way, I know a student from my elementary school next to my high school who tried to get signatures for a Bring Misty Back petition under my request, and the fact that he would even search there instead of asking "Who's Misty" makes it a bit obvious that even the younger kids would have heard of the original series, and this was at a time when Diamond and Pearl was nearly finished with its first or second season, back in 2007/2008.

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The flashbacks and returns basically are there for any older fans. But regardless, it doesn't matter. Kids can catch up if they want, the internet makes that fairly easy to just read up on characters, but there's nothing preventing anyone from enjoying the show.
Actually, if they wanted to truly reboot the series, they have to get rid of ALL the old, leave nothing behind. Had I been one of the writers, and I were tasked with making a reboot, I'd ensure that all old characters, even Ash, are not only replaced, but also not even acknowledged, since that's the entire point of a reboot, to basically erase all old continuity and replace it with all new things, with no traces of the old. Think how (spoilers) Selina Kyle's entire criminal record and past was erased at the end of The Dark Knight Rises.

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Except Ash is still 10, not 20, not 30. He's a kid, he's not supposed to be perfect. Kids mess up, it's how they learn. But "stupidity" is not an accurate word for Ash. He's always made mistakes, his biggest (and one he made quite frequently) was trying to use Charizard when he knew it wouldn't listen to him. It cost him the first Pokemon league and several other battles. Any other mistakes, like the ones in Best Wishes, are just for explaining how Pokemon works, such as having to weaken Pokemon before catching them, or Ground types being uneffected by Electric attacks.
Maybe he is a kid, sure, and maybe he is supposed to learn his lessons, but that DOESN'T mean that he should REPEAT those mistakes. Remember, he's been through several regions, so kid or not, he's supposed to be a veteran by this point.

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I doubt Game Freak expected people to hate the anime just because they kept Ash and didn't age him. It's just a cartoon, so I don't really know why people get so upset over it. Game Freak probably expects teens and adults to get out of Pokemon, because most people do move past video games and cartoons.
Yeah, well, they should. Or, they should have made sure the anime doesn't actually have an on-going plot (like the Final Fantasy series, or heck, even the Roadrunner/Looney Tones cartoons, where each episode short was completely different from the past, the plots being entirely divorced).

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"Completely stupid"? He now has 8 Unova badges, so he's qualified for the Unova League, not to mention he's doing well in the World Tournament Junior Cup. People act as if he is a complete failure when he isn't. And again, I wouldn't expect a 10 year old to be a Pokemon Master and defeat Champions like Cynthia or Alder.
If he could beat the likes of the Battle Frontier Brains (whom, BTW, were implied to be on the level of the Elite 4 or even the champion), he could most certainly handle the Champions. Otherwise, the Battle Frontier Brains are just as bad as Team Rocket in Episode 3. And the stupid comment was in reference to mistaking Iris for a pokemon in the first episode, and I based it on comments other users were saying about it.

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Except Ash's role is being the ideal trainer, not in terms of winning and losing, though he always makes it to the League, but as a trainer who loves and cares for his Pokemon. Everyone just wants to see a dominate force in the series, which would be extremely predictable.
Considering the fact that Ash has already gone through previous regions, why shouldn't we think he should be doing far better than that. If he's a veteran, that means he should be like, I dunno, Solid Snake in how he acts. Solid Snake showed himself to not be a rookie in future installments of Metal Gear Solid, and certainly not make rookie mistakes. Why can't they depict him in a very similar manner especially here in BW.

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Last I heard, the ratings for Best Wishes are pretty steady. It's a 15 year old show, it can't be the best forever. The only reason the ratings would decrease is the original fans leaving the anime, but the fans from the 90s are all adults now so it's expected. There are still plenty of kid fans that continue to watch the show.
Maybe if it was a small ratings decrease, like 8.98, or 8.89, it shouldn't be too much of a concern, but sinking from 9.0 to nearly 5.0 or less is by no means a "small" decrease. Even with the argument that the original fans have left the show, they should be replaced by the new audience and maintain a steady rating system, not sharply decrease. It sharply decreasing would imply that it's not doing well even among the target audience.

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Pokemon is supposedly still one of the most watched shows in Japan, but ratings are decreasing for all shows, probably due to them being available on the internet. Their business isn't being ruined, if that were true, they'd end the series.
Except the ratings of the show have significantly decreased. That would give enough people worry as to do risky decisions just to keep it on the air. From what I remember of the pokeani ratings, I think the Battle Frontier portion of the show was in the 5.5 range, with the lowest episode at that point being the Lucy episode.

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If you ran a cartoon with a steady fanbase aimed at young CHILDREN, would you want to make the show more violent, especially if you were counting on selling merch with these characters and creatures faces on them?
If I knew well enough that the loss of the Anime would not result in the Games being severely impacted by the decision, yes, I would. Don't forget, the Mario and Zelda shows were short lived, yet the game franchise itself is still going strong. If they could pull it off, Pokemon most certainly can as well.

Quote:
Brock wasn't the Lead character either. The entire Pokemon is this: Ash's journey to become a Pokemon Master. Everyone else (human-wise) is extra.
Actually, in some of the episodes, the Narrator specifically refers to the group as "Our Heroes," meaning that they ARE the Lead characters.

Quote:
He's 10. Do you really expect a 10 year old to be a master at anything? And do we really need to compare Pokemon to Metal Gear Solid? Snake and Ash are nothing alike at all.
Maybe not a master, but he should be a veteran at least (Veteran is different than a master, as while a veteran is someone who is experienced and seasoned enough at something, a master means the person has exceptional skills and experience far outweighing a veteran) considering the fact that he travelled through four, maybe six regions by this point, and thus should know what he's doing. And I used Snake as an example because his personality in the games was indicative of a seasoned veteran compared to the first Metal Gear.
  #23    
Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:45 AM
Richard Nixon
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Sure, why not? Ash never achieves his goal.
  #24    
Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
Sure, why not? Ash never achieves his goal.
That's not exactly true. I'm pretty sure by his goal you mean becoming a Pokémon master, though that's just his main goal, while he has a lot of other goals too. I'm pretty sure that in the beginning one of his goals was to catch every single Pokémon, though he kinda dropped that later on, but after that it has basically become befriending all his Pokémon and make them as strong as possible, as well as defeating the gyms in whatever region he's in to get to beat the regional leagues, which is a goal he has yet to achieve. Two notable things he has achieved though is beating the Orange Islands league as well as beating the Battle Frontier, so it's not like he hasn't progressed. So yeah, who knows, maybe he will become a Pokémon Master someday.
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  #25    
Old August 2nd, 2012, 12:17 PM
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No..Red isn't the base for Ash nor is Red based off of Satoshi. Ash WORE red's clothes in the original series to TRY and relate the Anime and the game, but Red from the Manga was based off of Red from the Videogames and He was never replaced. When the Manga moved to the next game, they moved to new Main Characters and Red appears again later down the line.

The Manga follows the Videogames based on release. None of the characters are replaced.

Ash =/= Red

Quote:
They also have video streaming sites such as Youtube or NDN, it's not like people can't watch them there. And besides, they can find DVD boxed sets at their local retailer store, whether it be Walmart, Target, Best Buy, even a Mom & Pop shop if needs be. There's also Ebay and Amazon for online people, so it's not like kids can't get the DVDs. And either way, I know a student from my elementary school next to my high school who tried to get signatures for a Bring Misty Back petition under my request, and the fact that he would even search there instead of asking "Who's Misty" makes it a bit obvious that even the younger kids would have heard of the original series, and this was at a time when Diamond and Pearl was nearly finished with its first or second season, back in 2007/2008.
Little tidbit about stores. We only carry what the retailers want us to carry. We have a few of "MIXED" Pokemon shows by types, but unless you go to a Mom's and Pop's Special Feature Novelty Store, you won't find Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, or Sinnoh box sets that easily. TPCi governs the sales of their DVDs and do regular recalls every three to four months on some DvD titles. When they do this, all stores HAVE to ship the merchandise back by the date listed and cannot leave the merchandise on the shelves when they receive then notice.

They also have various groups within the company that go into special sites such as Youtube and legally force them to take it down as the items are licenses and cannot be streamed legally on any non-certified sites.


As far as Ash is concerned. He does mature. He's not as wild as when he first started and still has the same mature level that he had in Sinnoh. While his tactics may fall a bit to the wayside, any 10 year old would do that. Yes. They would. No one can argue that a 10 Year old won't make the same mistake 100 to 1000 times in a year. They simply do not have the mental aptitude to understand completely why its wrong no matter how basic it is. I work is a store and have to deal with children like this. I can see children when they walk into the point that they leave. Even the older ones fall prey to the repeated mistakes.

10 year old leans on a "rolling" display. It rolls away and he falls. Ya know what he does? Pulls it back and leans on it again.

You have the children who have their hands slapped for grabbing things when their parents tell them no. After they get their hands slapped, they reach for something new and it happens again.

That's how children are. Plain and simple. Here is no exception. Threads like this appear every few weaks and turn into simple rants about how so and so hates Ash or the games, or how they hate how things happen in the games. When I joined I thought the members were a bit on the olderside course I found out this was false after being called an old man by a mod XD

I even see older members explaining EXACTLY what I'm explaining right now and a few weeks later a new thread with the EXACT same info appears and draws the exact same crowd.


As Voice Rocker said, no they will most likely NOT be getting rid of Ash ever. He is the face of the Anime and the SOLE main character for the series. Everyone else are traveling companions as the story as a whole revolves around Ash.

No we will most likely NOT be getting the B2W2 Trailer Style as an Anime. That style is what they use in the Movies and has a HUGE production cost. More so that the Anime probably could make to cover a decent revenue cost with it.

Honestly, I don't think or expect Ash to EVER win a tournament. If he does, yes I believe that he Anime would end and we'd pretty much just have to deal with games. Or we'd get some spin off Anime dealing with some toy that they use to play Pokemon or the Pokemon Card Game. Yes the Anime CAN get worse.
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