[B2/W2] B2W2 Time Discrepancy

[funnykid]

I tried searching for this, but there doesn't seem to be a thread for it. I noticed that with the release of B2W2 that the age of the characters no longer match the timeline.

In DPPt/HGSS, Caitlin was younger in the Battle Frontier. In BW, she became older and a member of the Unova Elite Four. This means BW takes place X years after DPPt, which in turn takes place 2 years after FRLG/RSE. If B2W2 takes place 2 years after BW, this means B2W2 should take place X+2 years after DPPt/HGSS. Why is Misty, Brock, Red, and co the same age as HGSS in the Tournament?

Following this logic, B2W2 should take place X+2+2 years after FGLG/RSE, why are Tate & Liza still little kids??

This is baffling me. If anyone has any insight into this matter, please do share!

[crystalzapdos]

Okay, I'm going to attempt this. The only thing that is outright said in the game is:

FR/LG---3 years--->HG/SS.
B/W---2 years--->B/W2

After that, theres a news report of the Red Gyrados at the beginning of Platinum, so this makes it:

FR/LG---3 years--->HG/SS-D/P/Pt.
B/W---2 years--->B/W2

Most people believe that R/S/E takes place at the same time as FR/LG because of the Sevii Islands quest, but I personally disagree. I think that it was just because they had to make a way to trade with R/S/E, so I personally think that R/S/E is open to speculation. However, in B/W2, there's two Aqua and Magma grunts who say that many years ago, They had a battle to expand the land/sea. They have a family, so they had to have time to settle down. Also, the Rocket member in B/W also had to settle down and had kids, so this confirms B/W comes last. This basically means that R/S/E is anywhere before B/W, so that leaves us with three possible timelines.

R/S/E---???--->FR/LG---3years--->HG/SS-D/P/Pt---???--->B/W---2 years--->B/W2

or

FR/LG---3years--->HG/SS-D/P/Pt---???--->R/S/E---???--->B/W---2 years--->B/W2

or

The FR/LG Sevii Quest theory is true, making it:
R/S/E-FR/LG---3years--->HG/SS-D/P/Pt---???--->B/W---2 years--->B/W2

Personally, I believe in the second timeline. I think the world tournament is non-cannon and completely ignores the timeline.

[XanderO]

PWT isn't Canon, and as far as aging, all they did was recycle all the old sprites -Hoenn sprites.

RBGYFRLGRSE base year
GSCHGSSDPPt +3 Years after Base
BW +1/2 years after above
B2W2 +2 years after BW

BW's placement questionable though I think the Gamefreak interviewees said it was a few years after DPPt.

Though that doesn't really help with sprites. Even after 2 years only Elesa, Cheren, and Bianca changed sprite wise, everyone else remained the same, so you could say that they aged to a point that they won't have any significant visual changes for a while. Cynthia didn't age amongst then games she appears in.

So I mean so far as sprites go, there are some people that take more than 10 years to visually age. Sprites may not mean anything as only Cheren, Bianca, and the MC's have ever had their ages revealed last I've seen.

Really your just reading too far into it. Canonly the timeline is fairly clear, and PWT has almost, pretty much been dismissed as Non-Canon since "Bianca" is part of the "Unova Leader" Tournaments.

[bwburke94]

The Red Gyarados report was only in DP and not Platinum, but let's assume it's canon.

Kanto (R/G/B/Y/FR/LG) occurs in the year I'll call 0 for the purposes of this discussion.
Hoenn (R/S/E) appears to be placed around year 1 based off Steven's cameo in HGSS.
Johto (G/S/C/HG/SS) is confirmed to be in year 3.
Sinnoh (D/P/Pt) is hinted to be in year 3 based off the Red Gyarados and a few cameos in and from Johto.
Unova 1 (B/W) is somewhere around year 6-8 based off Cynthia and Caitlin's appearances and dialogue.
Unova 2 (B2/W2) is therefore somewhere around year 8-10.

[ActionReplayer]

Yeah, the time discrepancy was bothering me. I think they just decided to do it Ash-style, and make everyone eternally on the same age.

[Lornami]

No need for math. The answer is very simple.

They didn't want to make new designs. That's it.

While its maybe easy to make a nicer sprite or pose, or maybe redraw them, aging them means changing their design. (Also all of the new sprites have pretty lazy poses.) Because if they're going to age them they really shouldn't be wearing the same clothes especially when teenagers/children are becoming older. They just didn't want to do it to all those old characters.

So I really wouldn't take it into any account when figuring out timelines.

[Ghiaccio]

Originally Posted by Lornami

No need for math. The answer is very simple.

They didn't want to make new designs. That's it.

While its maybe easy to make a nicer sprite or pose, or maybe redraw them, aging them means changing their design. (Also all of the new sprites have pretty lazy poses.) Because if they're going to age them they really shouldn't be wearing the same clothes especially when teenagers/children are becoming older. They just didn't want to do it to all those old characters.

So I really wouldn't take it into any account when figuring out timelines.

This...

Although it would've been cool to have seen all the old gym leaders have new designs and poses, they just thought it was too much work and left them all the same from HG/SS and D/P/PT except the R/S/E ones (cuz they were kinda outdated by all the others)

[Haseyo]

I like how they kept them the same. Their outfits are what made them iconic. Makes us feel like we're fighting the old Brock, Winona, etc. I'm fairly certain they are just there, has nothing to do with time.

[Lornami]

Originally Posted by Haseyo

I like how they kept them the same. Their outfits are what made them iconic. Makes us feel like we're fighting the old Brock, Winona, etc. I'm fairly certain they are just there, has nothing to do with time.

But all of the Kanto gym leaders (such as Brock) changed outfits for HGSS. :? How is it iconic for them when that's their second redesign (sorta fourth actually)? I would think the original outfits and designs, such as Misty's ponytail, Sabrina's long hair, or Blue's pendant, etc. would be more iconic.

[Haseyo]

To be fair, the original Gen I/II sprites had no color (even with Gameboy Color, they were still all one color), so it only made sense to use their remake sprites.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by Haseyo

To be fair, the original Gen I/II sprites had no color (even with Gameboy Color, they were still all one color), so it only made sense to use their remake sprites.

Only Red, Blue and Green were one color when played on a GBC.

Yellow, Gold, Silver, and Crystal were all properly colored. Though Yellow did have a fair amount of Yellow pigments in most of the sprites, they were all still individually colored.

HG/SS got redesigns because the pixel art for the sprites weren't as clear as the third Gen sprites and didn't hold detail well. Between Gens 1 and 2 the Kanto Gym Leaders received clothing make overs, so between 3 and 4's remakes of them they'd do the same cause that was a relation they had in the originals.

There really just wasn't any reason to redesign the Hoenn leaders past updating them to larger sprites.

[Haseyo]

Ah they were colored, just really dull but what can you expect from GBC. They still weren't fully colored, maybe two colors. It's been awhile.

As we've said before though, we're pretty sure the PWT basically uses their Gen III/IV/V sprites and Pokemon of their type category. I highly doubt it goes as deep as what time period it is in comparison.

[Lornami]

No I mean this is not an issue of sprites, that's irrelevant. When someone thinks "Misty" they think



or Misty from the anime, or Misty as her most known incarnation in any medium. And that is with a ponytail. The art of her with a ponytail far over numbers the art of her with her hair down. This is the iconic version of Misty, and will continue being the most iconic even if she changes and grows up more.

I'm not saying that they should have put an older design of Misty in the game. I'm saying that I think the excuse of them keeping old sprites is for "the iconic look" is not a valid argument. They kept the HGSS gym leaders unchanged because they are the most current and stylistically don't have to be remade to fit the game, not because people prefer them. If they went with what people preferred, I'm sure most of us would prefer seeing a new design. We like to see characters grow.

[Haseyo]

Maybe to you, we'll never know. I don't think of that Misty. With HG/SS's popularity, it only makes sense to take those sprites. I'm looking at this from their PoV, not a personal community opinion.

[Lornami]

And from their POV as a COMPANY they don't want to remake sprites when they don't have to! It doesn't matter what you personally think of when you see Misty, if a COMPANY says they want to market Misty images to appeal to everyone, they'll use the most iconic version. The ponytail, because it is iconic because it's the most known and used, that is not a debatable fact.

They didn't use that version. That means that they in their POV were not thinking about iconic features. They used the quickest route, and that is the HGSS sprites without any redesign. They didn't take them because of popularity. All of their games are popular, and they also have nostalgia to contend with. They used the HGSS without redesigning them because in their POV as a company that is the easiest thing to do without impacting quality for a side feature, not for any other bogus reason.

[Haseyo]

We don't know that for sure, you're putting words in their mouth. They never tackled the subject because quite frankly it's a bit silly. It's a freaking sprite for crying out loud, something that takes minutes to create. You're over-thinking this just like the OP was - just accept the PWT on how it is. You don't see their sprites during the entire fight, so it really doesn't matter. They appear for 2 seconds then the battle begins.

If I knew people would get this touchy-feely then I never would've said a thing.

[XanderO]

Hi ya....Enough arguing please.

Lornami, you cannot vouch for the Point of View for a company. You have your personal feeling for why they did what they did. We cannot say for certain why they did it.

Could they have made new sprites? Yes, look at the Hoenn ones. Did they? No. Why? We don't know.

Is it because they simply did not want? I can't say because I don't work for them. They could have done it cause its not that far after? Maybe because they simply didn't have to as the others could be at their peak aging like I had said before.

Keep in mind that not everyone knows Misty with the Ponytail especially those with the games because the Anime isn't done by Gamefreak. She didn't have a big picture for the VS screen in FR/LG. Iconic view is based on views of the fans. Some like Gen 2's Misty, some like Gen 1's Misty.

[Lornami]

...If there isn't any opposing force in a conversation, it's not a discussion, it's a chit-chat.

No, Game Freak has not come down and told us their entire reasoning or design process. (If you think art assets, aka sprites and the like, take a few minutes your are grossly misinformed.) But the entire point of a discussion is to figure out why from our viewpoints, and from what we know of others viewpoints. This extends to ruling out other reasonings we think are false, and stating why, with the best of our reasoning ability.

Misty's iconic view is decided by the majority of fans, and what is the most popular view of her. GameFreak understand it goes further than just the games, they've bounced things from the anime multiple times.

Google "Misty", put "Misty" in on deviantart, and put "カスミ" in on Pixiv. That is the popular view of Misty. Tell me the ponytail isn't the majority, therefore iconic.

I've stated why I think the gyms leaders in BW2 have not aged, and why I do not agree that it's for iconic resemblance purposes. I will leave it at that then, if you don't want to discuss it anymore.

[XanderO]

And a majority of those are done by the older fans that have been with the Anime since the beginning or have access to the older episodes, but game wise they don't have any large images outside of Misty's RBY/FRLG sprites.

The thread is to discuss why the sprites weren't changed yes, but I saw your side getting a little too heated, especially where you were stating that it was because the company was lazy/didn't want to do it. You don't work for GameFreak so you cannot know why they did what they did.

No I never mentioned how easy it is to sprite because it isn't easy. That could be one reason why they didn't make new ones for all the Gym Leaders rather than the Hoenn Leaders who needed updated sprites to the larger sized versions.

Also I think we have a different definition for Iconic.

i·con·ic   [ahy-kon-ik]
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of an icon.
2. Art . (of statues, portraits, etc.) executed according to a convention or tradition.


Definition 1: Current sprite is Of Misty, pertaining to Misty, or a Characteristic of Misty.

Art wise, her sprite is Iconic because it is Misty. Older or younger it doesn't matter. Misty is Misty. They used her up to date art that's Canon art that they had. We know that much. As I said before it could be because she didn't age physically between HG/SS and B2W2, same with all the other Gym Leaders, as opposed to Caitlin who physically aged and had visual change.

My answer to the OP's question, the ones outside of the Hoenn set who "Needed" the update, didn't age enough for a change in sprite. It IS a lot of work to edit sprites and make new ones from scratch. I am learning to sprite and it is possibly the hardest thing I've done in art my entire life.

So yes, the argument on which Misty is Iconic is off topic and not relevant to the discussion of "Why don't the Gym Leaders/Red look as if they aged?" question the OP had.

[pryce10]

I actually think its kinda mixture of both actually. GF were bit lazy but I think since most people would have played HG/SS they would have recongised Gen1/2 gym leaders from their.

[vaporeon7]

I think the reason why the new Hoenn sprites weren't aged was so that they could easily reuse them in the potential R/S remakes. Also the PWT is probably not important enough to give every gym leader and every champion a new sprite, design and art.

[IllusDark8]

I find in order to find out the timeline in Pokemon is that you have to pay attention to the Technology and Culture. I understand that not many people do this but it makes some sense.

[XanderO]

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