UU B/W Metagame Discussion

[Pokedra]

WHAT IS THIS FOR?

Quote Wolf
But sure, go ahead.

Basically people suggested more discussion threads so I thought why not put up an UU discussion thread.

This thread is where we can discuss anything related to this rather interesting metagame, ie. what will drop down from OU? How these Pokemon will affect the metagame, how you feel about UU at the moment, what play-styles work most effectively etc. Why should you play UU over that poop known as OU? Well for one thing it's not as overrun with Dragon-types and weather as OU is. I'd even go as far as to say it's more balanced.

CURRENT BANLIST

• Banned Pokemon - Obviously BL, OU and Ubers can't be used in UU.
• Snow Warning, Drought and Sand Stream are banned.
• Aldaron's Clause is in play (Drizzle + Swift Swim)

KEY OFFENSIVE THREATS

Packing a base 145 SpAtk and numerous resistances and immunities and Flash Fire this is one of the best special attackers in UU. Commonly seen running Specs or a Sub + 3 Attacks set.

+
After four generations in OU, Zapdos has come down to UU. LO Zapdos running HP Ice / Thunderbolt / Heat Wave / Roost is very common and Scarf sets are seen sometimes as well. Typically used in a double electric strategy (with SubCM Raikou) in order to beat it's counters in Snorlax and Umberon. Raikou is more of a set-up sweeper, relying on it's bulk and Subs to nab those CM's.

+
The double Dragons of UU. Very, very dangerous as together as they can handle almost all walls in UU. ScarfGon is easily the most common set, used as an effective revenge killer, CB sets pack that extra power to push past bulky waters and even Steels. Kingdra uses ChestoRest to setup and sweep or even switching it up with Specs or Rain Dance. Touted as the pseudo-Mence of UU by some Smogoners in that you don't know which set it runs and can lose a Poke finding out. A testament to how good these dragons are is shown in he 1337 stats (leaderboard players) where they are #2 and #4 respectively.


CBHeracross is easily one of the best wallbreakers in UU, laughing at bulky waters and special walls. SD sets are also very good while some people opt for LO or Burn Orb. Vastly underatted mon.


SubCM or SubNP Mismagius is nasty as most walls can't break it's Sub while most attackers are finished off by it's attacks. Access to Taunt also means it can shut down walls without resorting to Substitute if it feels like it.


Idea bulky sweeper, Arcanine can dish out a tonne of damage while staying alive due to Morning Sun. Can run a bulkier set as well to tank hits better while stay dealing reasonable damage. Unfortunately the fact that UU is dominated by entry hazards means Arcanine could be taking 32.5% - 50% just switching in which limits its use unless you have RP support.

KEY DEFENSIVE THREATS

One of the best Pokemon in UU, if not the best. #1 in usage for a good reason. It's arguably the best spiker since it also utilise or absorb Toxic Spikes and can't be shut down by status due to Natural Cure. It's also damn good as it can setup on any Water-type. Most Waters can 3HKO her at best and she can recover and run away for more later.

With no blobs in UU, people looking for a special wall have to deal with this. Sleep Talk and Curse sets are the most common with this guy was he lacks recovery.

Possibly the best bulky water in the tier due to Regenerator and having reliable recovery without resorting to Rest. Roserade + Snorlax + Slowbro is a pretty popular core as well.


UU's answer to the numerous Fighting-types running around, Evolite means most physical attacks will bounce right off him and he can lay SR down and continue to scout with U-Turn while sponging up attacks.

RECENT CHANGES
Down from OU
Common sets

MienShao @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Trait: Regenerator
EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Hi Jump Kick
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge

MienShao @ Choice Band
Nature: Naive
Trait: Regenerator
EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Grass Knot / HP Ice
- Hi Jump Kick
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge

Down from OU
Common set

Scrafty @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Trait: Moxie
EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Hi Jump Kick
- Crunch
- Ice Punch

Up to OU
Down from BL
^ Snow Warning is banned so this guy is pretty useless.

WHY PLAY UU / DIFFERENCES FROM OU
I love OU, why should I play UU?
Ah, good question.

Firstly you can't like OU, that's not right...js
But UU is different and here are some reasons why you should consider it.

• - Lack of weather starters, it's completely banned (apart from RD/Sunny Day). Want to play a metagame where you don't have to have some form of weather changer in order not to be at a disadvantage? UU is similar to DP OU in that entry hazards are essential in fact the metagame revolves around Spikes, SR and Toxic Spikes.
• - Not as Dragon/Steel centralized. There's only two Dragons (Kingdra and Flygon), both extremely popular but the metagame by no means revolves around them. This allows you more freedom with teams.
• - UU is just as fast and offensive as OU if that's your thing. Bulky offense seems to be most player's ticket to the top but most styles are playable. The fact that around a quarter of UU Pokemon were actually former OU's means that going down to this tier means there's not a significant drop in power. Basically you can adapt easier if you're coming from OU.

So yeah there's plenty more but I highly encourage you to give UU a go. It only takes a bit to slap together a team and have a shot. Who knows you might actually like it and play more competitively. Most people atm think UU's the best it's ever been this gen so now is a good time to start.


Just don't use Ambipom..unless you want to lose ;__;



USEFUL LINKS

• -Usage Stats
• -UU Pokemon
• -UU Cores
• -UU Threats List

Discuss people! It doesn't matter if you have played much or any at all. People are willing to help you, don't let this die like other discussion threads =/

[Karpman]

Cool stuff, someone at smogon told me to try this out. How is CB Mienshao now that it's UU? It's basically CB Terrakion without Stone Edge STAB although Regenerator healing it of most hazard damage would compensate for that I assume.

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by Karpman

Cool stuff, someone at smogon told me to try this out. How is CB Mienshao now that it's UU? It's basically CB Terrakion without Stone Edge STAB although Regenerator healing it of most hazard damage would compensate for that I assume.

I've run into a lot of MienShao, much more then Scrafty. However people seem to ditch CB in favour of LO MienShao which is a decent set since Regenerator allows it to come back and spam Fake Out + U-Turn to basically weaken your team while being hard to kill since it rarely stays in. In all honestly though this set is only really annoying, I feel CB would be a much better choice but I haven't used MienShao much.

Scarfty I've used a fair bit, it's quite good however it's slow and getting a good opportunity for that first DD can be a pain. Even after a DD, stuff like Ampipom, Raikou and Azelf still outspeed it so in all honesty it's not the greatest Pokemon. On the bright side it's reasonably bulky and after a DD and one KO it's definitely very dangerous. Just not broken.

Imo these two fit perfectly into UU, there's no reason to run something specifically to counter them as any well-built team can handle them but they are damn good if played right.

[PlatinumDude]

Isn't Scrafty bulky enough to at least get a DD in before it attacks? If it has Drain Punch, it can heal off the damage it took with that.

Also, in UU, is HP Ice still a viable option on Mienshao? Because I don't really see any notable UU Pokemon weak to Ice other than Krookodile, Nidoking and Flygon. Is this the LO set that Mienshao normally uses in UU now?:
-Fake Out
-Hi Jump Kick
-U-turn
-Stone Edge/Grass Knot
Nature: Jolly/Naive
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe or 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator

Also, what moves is CB Mienshao seen with nowadays?

(sorry, I don't play UU much at all)

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

Isn't Scrafty bulky enough to at least get a DD in before it attacks? If it has Drain Punch, it can heal off the damage it took with that.

Also, in UU, is HP Ice still a viable option on Mienshao? Because I don't really see any notable UU Pokemon weak to Ice other than Krookodile, Nidoking and Flygon. Is this the LO set that Mienshao normally uses in UU now?:
-Fake Out
-Hi Jump Kick
-U-turn
-Stone Edge/Grass Knot
Nature: Jolly/Naive
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe or 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator

Also, what moves is CB Mienshao seen with nowadays?

(sorry, I don't play UU much at all)

It is, but you have to make sure it takes an attack that won't do too much as many unscarfed Pokemon still outspeed it after a DD and can revenge-kill it. Weavile, Crobat and Raikou are two examples, there are many more.

I hardly see any running Drain Punch, it's like Outrage vs Dragon Claw you simply lose too much power compared to Hi Jump Kick. An unboosted Hi Jump Kick vastly outdamages a +1 Drain Punch, you'll lose out on so many KO's running Drain Punch it's not worth the recovery imo. If you want to use Scarfty as an endgame sweeper Drain Punch is probably the better option though but lose a tonne of power.

Yeah basically LO w/ U-Turn / Fake Out / Stone Edge / HJK is basically the most common set. Slowbro walls it all day though and Crobat is a very effective check.

Btw anyone wanting to try UU I highly recommend this.


Victini @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
Trait: Victory Star
EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- V-Create
- Fusion Bolt
- U-Turn
- Zen Headbutt / Brick Break

Just give it hazards support or remove bulky waters and correctly predict Fusion Bolt / V-Create.

Hot.

[tj4bigred]

I use Zapdos and Mienshao often in OU just because I think they're such great Pokemon.

Personally, I like to run Hidden Power Grass on Zapdos, because it decimates Quagsire, Swampert, and Gastrodon (who don't expect it lol) while also OHKOing Golem and Rhyperior.

[dragonomega]

I'd imagine Durant is going to get a lot more use now that it gets Superpower. And if it doesn't well shame on you all tbh!! I haven't played UU in a while... like literally haven't played for a good few months. And even when I did I just didn't know what was going on. I want to build a UU team that features Swoobat because it's such a boss with Simple. n______n

[Evisector]

I agree that Heracross is vastly underrated. I used to use a Flame Orb set that ran Swords Dance, Megahorn, Close Combat and Facade. With a bit of paralysis and Zoroark support, it ripped teams to shreds.

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by dragonomega

I'd imagine Durant is going to get a lot more use now that it gets Superpower. And if it doesn't well shame on you all tbh!! I haven't played UU in a while... like literally haven't played for a good few months. And even when I did I just didn't know what was going on. I want to build a UU team that features Swoobat because it's such a boss with Simple. n______n

Durant should get a lot more usage now that it isn't walled by Steels however bulky Ghosts like Dusclops and stuff like Weezing still stop him reasonably easily. Nidoqueen is basically the perfect counter if you don't like checks. With Sheer Force + SR she should be seeing more use.

Flygon + Superpower could be cool.

Anyways they're saying UU right now is the best it's been this gen so I suggest more people hop on it.

[Dark Azelf]

Originally Posted by Pokedra

Durant should get a lot more usage now that it isn't walled by Steels however bulky Ghosts like Dusclops and stuff like Weezing still stop him reasonably easily. Nidoqueen is basically the perfect counter if you don't like checks. With Sheer Force + SR she should be seeing more use.

Flygon + Superpower could be cool.

Anyways they're saying UU right now is the best it's been this gen so I suggest more people hop on it.

All of those hate taking Hone Claws LO Iron Heads, they all take like 80+% from it with SR up lol.

Also dunno why you'd use SuperPower on Flygon, it hits everything S-Power would with Fire Punch or EQ. :s

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

All of those hate taking Hone Claws LO Iron Heads, they all take like 80+% from it with SR up lol.

Also dunno why you'd use SuperPower on Flygon, it hits everything S-Power would with Fire Punch or EQ. :s

+1 Hustle LO Jolly Iron Head does like around 80% average with SR and you can OHKO back with Fire Blast. It's not perfect but it does the job, you can also factor in Hustle actually making him miss from time to time but that is hax and you should never really rely on it. Plus if you let it setup, then that 80% you lose is basically something you have to deal with.

Btw I think standard set is something like Stone Edge / Superpower / X-Scissor / Hone Claws. X-Scissor is crucial to beat Slowbro, Superpower for Steels obviously and Stone Edge for Flying-types else Crobat walls you all day. Iron Head is noted by Smogon as secondary STAB filler anyways.

Eh the extra power from Superpower would help him get past Snorlax and Umberon however it does leave him as setup fodder for the next Pokemon. It's a niche honestly but it could be useful in certain situations.

[Dark Azelf]

Originally Posted by Pokedra

+1 Hustle LO Jolly Iron Head does like around 80% average with SR and you can OHKO back with Fire Blast. It's not perfect but it does the job, you can also factor in Hustle actually making him miss from time to time but that is hax and you should never really rely on it. Plus if you let it setup, then that 80% you lose is basically something you have to deal with.

Btw I think standard set is something like Stone Edge / Superpower / X-Scissor / Hone Claws. X-Scissor is crucial to beat Slowbro, Superpower for Steels obviously and Stone Edge for Flying-types else Crobat walls you all day. Iron Head is noted by Smogon as secondary STAB filler anyways.

Eh the extra power from Superpower would help him get past Snorlax and Umberon however it does leave him as setup fodder for the next Pokemon. It's a niche honestly but it could be useful in certain situations.

Hone Claws negates Hustles accuracy iirc so he wont miss.

Crobat really isn't walling +1 LO STAB Hustle boosted Iron Heads im pretty sure lol.

I think Stone Edge is kinda an inferior option tbh, Iron Head lets you maim most of the checks it has and on most occasions bypass them pretty easily as shown by the 80+% they take. The only thing Stone Edge hits is like fire types who are either sucky, frail and lose anyway to SuperPower. I guess it hits Arcanine and Zapdos but both are rather SR weak.

SuperPower isnt niche at all, it lets Durant get past steels which it otherwise couldnt dream of touching outside ThunderFang (lol) and Dig (lol).

EDIT:

Oh SuperPower on Flygon, k i agree lol.

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf

Hone Claws negates Hustles accuracy iirc so he wont miss.

Crobat really isn't walling +1 LO STAB Hustle boosted Iron Heads im pretty sure lol.

I think Stone Edge is kinda an inferior option tbh, Iron Head lets you maim most of the checks it has and on most occasions bypass them pretty easily as shown by t. The only thing Stone Edge hits is like fire types who are either sucky, frail and lose anyway to SuperPower. I guess it hits Arcanine and Zapdos but both are rather SR weak.

SuperPower isnt niche at all, it lets Durant get past steels which it otherwise couldnt dream of touching outside ThunderFang (lol) and Dig (lol).

Oh yeah it does too.

No no I meant Superpower on Flygon. Superpower on Durant is a must XD

I agree that Iron Head lets it hurt it's checks badly but SE is still pretty crucial. As you mentioned you can't hurt Fire-types as easily (notably Bulky Arcanine and Chandelure). Stone Edge is just needed for that extra coverage, you lose some checks by running Iron Head and gain some new ones. Though I admit Iron Head might actually be the better option as you'll get the jump on people bringing in their "checks".

Personally I can see Durant coming out of BL2 and getting pretty high usage in UU. It can easily setup on standard Spikes Roserade who only carries Giga Drain/Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb however it's still very brittle (the special side anyway) so you'd still have to be careful setting up on something. Even with that awesome defense, 58 HP + potentially taking up to 12.5%-37.5% just by switching in means it's not even taking physical hits with ease. But this is just theorymonning on my end and we all know how that usually ends up

[Grandpa Freeman]

i think that a meinshao would be really interesting with the double dragons it can keep the momentum up with double u-turners and it can beat gligar and u-turn out of slowbro for kingdra to set up i think mienshao is a really cool pokemon in uu better than scrafty

[Pokedra]

Scrafty and MienShao play two completely different roles, one functions as a scout or utilises Choice Band while one is a sweeper. You can't really be better if you perform different roles. As for impact on the metagame, it's too early to tell atm.

Added a section on differences between this and OU. There's plenty more but I do more later.

I realize many people don't play it/haven't played it in a while but UU's never been better so I highly recommend it ;_______;

[PlatinumDude]

How well can Scrafty do Bulk Up in UU?:
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Crunch
-Rest
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin

By the way (and I found this out on an in-progress Scrafty revamp on Smogon), but Shed Skin is viable on DD Scrafty because it now has a chance to shrug off status. Moxie Scrafty has to use a Lum Berry to cure status during its sweep.

[Pokedra]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

How well can Scrafty do Bulk Up in UU?:
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Crunch
-Rest
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin

By the way (and I found this out on an in-progress Scrafty revamp on Smogon), but Shed Skin is viable on DD Scrafty because it now has a chance to shrug off status. Moxie Scrafty has to use a Lum Berry to cure status during its sweep.

Quite well actually, I ran into one yesterday and it got a Bulk Up on one of my Choiced Pokemon. Ridiculously hard to take down after Bulk Up, I ended up sacrificing something to get it to low enough health to cleanly KO. Most Specs or Band attacks can't OHKO after SR and it can DP you or Rest and wait for Shed Skin. It's different from the DD set basically and if played right it's pretty good. If you can Taunt it though, it hits like a feather >=)

It needs a little support but I'm quite tempted to try it myself, seems good.

I run Leftovers on my Scrafty but that's probably cause I have Roserade to take status. I like recovery cause Scrafty is actually reasonably bulky and Leftovers helps you recover enough HP to stick around longer.

[PlatinumDude]

(just so this would make Pokedra happy)

This question is regarding Venomoth: In Showdown, I've seen Venomoth on a fair few teams; is this allowed? (considering that the current Venomoth Smogon analysis still lists Venomoth in BL2)

[Pokedra]

In an attempt to keep this alive.

Stall isn't great in UU, you have good Pokemon to use on a team but a well-built offensive team played by a good UU player is still going to beat a well-built stall team played by a good player 3/4 times imo.

Moxie ScarfCross is one of the best cleanup sweepers too :>