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  #26    
Old August 3rd, 2012, 08:05 AM
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They don't only should, they must change him. Enough of Ash, particularly since they have totally ruined it in the latests seasons. As the heroe of our childhood, he deserves a beautiful end, I mean, a end where he finally grows up and we see him becoming a champion or whatever they want, but then, stop with him. And then change the heroe, who could be ten if they want.

Or, I think it'll be a good idea if, Ash travelled for its part, and we followed the adventures of another former character, like May or Misty. Well, maybe not Brock because we also had enough of him I guess.

Or, an anime with Red instead of Ash. An anime based on PokéSpe. We can dream, can't we?
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  #27    
Old August 3rd, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Ash was based on Red (in case you haven't noticed, Red's original artwork bore a lot of resemblance to Ash), so if a equals b and b equals c, then a equals c, hence how Red is based on Tajiri. Circular logic.
No, Ash is a stand alone character, perhaps a counterpart to Red, but not based on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
That, as well as drug problems, but then again, I read a TV Guide article that implies that the guy who created the show was "winning" despite Sheen's removal. And I should point out that I don't even like Two and a Half Men (it's really morally disgusting, really, even without Sheen's antics on the show).
I heard Ashton Kutcher wasn't getting over with fans the way Sheen did, but that might not be the case. I don't care for the show either. But either way, replacing the lead character of a show, any show, is a big risk, especially after being the star for as long as Ash has been on Pokemon.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
They also have video streaming sites such as Youtube or NDN, it's not like people can't watch them there. And besides, they can find DVD boxed sets at their local retailer store, whether it be Walmart, Target, Best Buy, even a Mom & Pop shop if needs be. There's also Ebay and Amazon for online people, so it's not like kids can't get the DVDs. And either way, I know a student from my elementary school next to my high school who tried to get signatures for a Bring Misty Back petition under my request, and the fact that he would even search there instead of asking "Who's Misty" makes it a bit obvious that even the younger kids would have heard of the original series, and this was at a time when Diamond and Pearl was nearly finished with its first or second season, back in 2007/2008.
Older DVDs for Pokemon are hard to find. Anime DVDs in particular are disappearing as fans refuse to pay for them and watch them all online illegally. (Best Buy use to have a huge collection of various anime. Went there the other day and the entire anime section was almost non-existent.)

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Actually, if they wanted to truly reboot the series, they have to get rid of ALL the old, leave nothing behind. Had I been one of the writers, and I were tasked with making a reboot, I'd ensure that all old characters, even Ash, are not only replaced, but also not even acknowledged, since that's the entire point of a reboot, to basically erase all old continuity and replace it with all new things, with no traces of the old. Think how (spoilers) Selina Kyle's entire criminal record and past was erased at the end of The Dark Knight Rises.
It wasn't a total reboot. Black and White started of with only the new 156 Pokemon, but postgame, some of the older ones were available.

Besides, if they were to replace Ash now, in another 5 years, there would be a demand for another replacement, and so on and so forth. Why create character after character if they are just going to be copies of each other?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Maybe he is a kid, sure, and maybe he is supposed to learn his lessons, but that DOESN'T mean that he should REPEAT those mistakes. Remember, he's been through several regions, so kid or not, he's supposed to be a veteran by this point.
Everyone screws up, not just kids, but kids (especially at that age) keep making the same dumb mistakes. Remember, how many times did Ash try to use Charmeleon/Charizard before it started listening to him? Charmander evolved somewhere mid-Kanto, but it didn't respect him again until towards the end of the Orange Islands.

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Yeah, well, they should. Or, they should have made sure the anime doesn't actually have an on-going plot (like the Final Fantasy series, or heck, even the Roadrunner/Looney Tones cartoons, where each episode short was completely different from the past, the plots being entirely divorced).
Why should they expect people to question the plot of a cartoon, especially from a group of teens and adults outside of the target audience?

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
If he could beat the likes of the Battle Frontier Brains (whom, BTW, were implied to be on the level of the Elite 4 or even the champion), he could most certainly handle the Champions. Otherwise, the Battle Frontier Brains are just as bad as Team Rocket in Episode 3. And the stupid comment was in reference to mistaking Iris for a pokemon in the first episode, and I based it on comments other users were saying about it.
That's why he starts over at the beginning of every region, to build more experience with new Pokemon, he just keeps Pikachu. When he went to Johto, he kept his Kanto team and his first battle had Charizard completely dominate the girl with a Rattata, Pidgey, and Chikorita. Do we really need to see more of this?



And the deal with Iris is a misunderstanding apparently thanks to the Pokedex.
Bulbapedia:"Ash walks into the forest, wondering what kind of Pokémon he will capture first. He then hears rustling from a bush he jogs past, and seeing something purple, he checks his Pokédex. The electronic gadget displays a picture of an Axew, apparently green in color. Talking about Axew's properties and behavior, Ash wonders why what he sees is so different from what it is being displayed. Nevertheless, without thinking, he throws a Poké Ball, and it hits... a girl's head! The girl rises from the bush, enraged at being thought of as a Pokémon. Apparently, it was actually her purple hair that Ash had spotted while she was picking fruits. Ash immediately apologies for his actions. Accepting his apology, the girl raises the fruit she had picked to her hair and an Axew pops out, grabs the fruit and lands on the ground, eating it."

Though it looked different, the Pokedex identified Iris' hair as an Axew, which it was right, but it was hidden in her hair. Not really Ash's fault that the girl hides her dragon in her big hair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Considering the fact that Ash has already gone through previous regions, why shouldn't we think he should be doing far better than that. If he's a veteran, that means he should be like, I dunno, Solid Snake in how he acts. Solid Snake showed himself to not be a rookie in future installments of Metal Gear Solid, and certainly not make rookie mistakes. Why can't they depict him in a very similar manner especially here in BW.
Snake is also an adult war vet, not a kid befriending magical creatures. Ash is a 10 year old kid, that's why he isn't all-powerful. He's obviously skilled, he's the only known trainer to ever KO Tobias's Darkrai, as it was said Tobias won all 8 of his badges with only Darkrai. No one had ever seen any of Tobias' other Pokemon before the battle with Ash. Ash was the 2nd strongest trainer of the Sinnoh league, as the guy who Tobias beat in the finals didn't beat Darkrai. Ash advances further with every league. Even if he were to perhaps win the Unova league, he may feel there is more to being a Pokemon master than just winning a tournament.

People act as if Ash is just a huge failure, yet as always, he wins his 8 badges. In Kanto, several of his badges were just given to him due to outside interference or something. At least in later seasons, he actually gets a clean victory when he earns his badges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Maybe if it was a small ratings decrease, like 8.98, or 8.89, it shouldn't be too much of a concern, but sinking from 9.0 to nearly 5.0 or less is by no means a "small" decrease. Even with the argument that the original fans have left the show, they should be replaced by the new audience and maintain a steady rating system, not sharply decrease. It sharply decreasing would imply that it's not doing well even among the target audience.
This was addressed on the Bulbagarden forums. Someone there said Japan's birthrate has gone down a lot recently, meaning there aren't as many kids to watch TV as there was in the past. And ratings for ALL the shows are going down, not just Pokemon's. People aren't watching TV anymore because 1: Not as many kids in Japan and 2: Why get up early to see something on TV when you can sleep longer and just watch it later online (though probably illegally)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Except the ratings of the show have significantly decreased. That would give enough people worry as to do risky decisions just to keep it on the air. From what I remember of the pokeani ratings, I think the Battle Frontier portion of the show was in the 5.5 range, with the lowest episode at that point being the Lucy episode.
Except there is nothing suggesting Pokemon is in danger of being cancelled. It's still one of the top watched shows.

The Homika/Roxie 2-part was at 6.6 according to someone form Bulbagarden. Best Wishes tends to fall and rise frequently according to the ratings they posted there.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f228/bes...71/index7.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
If I knew well enough that the loss of the Anime would not result in the Games being severely impacted by the decision, yes, I would. Don't forget, the Mario and Zelda shows were short lived, yet the game franchise itself is still going strong. If they could pull it off, Pokemon most certainly can as well.
You would change a show, knowing the results would end it? That's horrible business logic and a total waist of money to produce something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Actually, in some of the episodes, the Narrator specifically refers to the group as "Our Heroes," meaning that they ARE the Lead characters.
It's much easier to just say "our heroes" rather than name them individually every single time. They're reoccuring major roles, but Ash is the only true Lead role. The show is about his journey, not everyone elses'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
Maybe not a master, but he should be a veteran at least (Veteran is different than a master, as while a veteran is someone who is experienced and seasoned enough at something, a master means the person has exceptional skills and experience far outweighing a veteran) considering the fact that he travelled through four, maybe six regions by this point, and thus should know what he's doing. And I used Snake as an example because his personality in the games was indicative of a seasoned veteran compared to the first Metal Gear.
Again, he has skill, otherwise he wouldn't have all 8 badges of the 5 regions and the 4 from the Orange Islands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentalii View Post
They don't only should, they must change him. Enough of Ash, particularly since they have totally ruined it in the latests seasons. As the heroe of our childhood, he deserves a beautiful end, I mean, a end where he finally grows up and we see him becoming a champion or whatever they want, but then, stop with him. And then change the heroe, who could be ten if they want.

Or, I think it'll be a good idea if, Ash travelled for its part, and we followed the adventures of another former character, like May or Misty. Well, maybe not Brock because we also had enough of him I guess.

Or, an anime with Red instead of Ash. An anime based on PokéSpe. We can dream, can't we?
There is no "must". They don't HAVE to change him. He isn't ruined, he progresses further every season.

Replacing him would only lead to another argument about the anime again in a few years.
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  #28    
Old August 3rd, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
There is no "must". They don't HAVE to change him. He isn't ruined, he progresses further every season.

Replacing him would only lead to another argument about the anime again in a few years.
On the contrary, each new season he regresses more and more. The only way to change that is unfortunately to replace him. Ash is the character of my childhood, so it's difficult to imagine the animé without him, but now we need changement, Ash's done, he hasn't anything new to show now.
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  #29    
Old August 3rd, 2012, 11:19 AM
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No he doesn't regress. He has the same maturity as the last season he was in. Currently he is as mature as he was in Sinnoh. Which is more mature than when he started in Kanto. A lot of his tactics is his personal views on battles. He likes to challenge himself so he purposefully chooses match ups that are bad for him.

He even taught a child how to use his Pokemon so the kid could have a Pokemon battle with his friends in one episode. He has made a huge leap forward since beginning and is a completely different trainer than when he first started. He just likes to take unnecessary risks in battle just to see what would happen.
  #30    
Old August 4th, 2012, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
No he doesn't regress. He has the same maturity as the last season he was in. Currently he is as mature as he was in Sinnoh. Which is more mature than when he started in Kanto. A lot of his tactics is his personal views on battles. He likes to challenge himself so he purposefully chooses match ups that are bad for him.

He even taught a child how to use his Pokemon so the kid could have a Pokemon battle with his friends in one episode. He has made a huge leap forward since beginning and is a completely different trainer than when he first started. He just likes to take unnecessary risks in battle just to see what would happen.

He hasn't evolved that much since Sinnoh I think... It was the moment to really change it, I mean, they wanted a new departure for him so it was the opportunity, wasn't it? But no, it's just another season with a ten years old Ash. If it's always like that Pokémon anime could be endless, with the lack of scenario, it's real pity for a so fabulous universe, even though they have so many means ... And of course he's more mature than when he started in Kanto, but the fact that he was so childish at that time doesn't bother since he was a young boy that was just starting his adventure ! Now that scenario that occurs almost each new season again becomes boring.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 03:53 AM
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On the topic of Red and Ash resembling one another, Honestly i believe they are two sides of the same coin, they are the same but different. Red ages, doesn't say anything stupid, actually wins stuff, and is the ultimate pokemon master. While on the other hand you have ash. Doesn't age, is annoying and always makes a fool of himself, somehow manages to lose everything (besides the orange islands) and dreams of being a pokemon master.

The big mistake they made with Ash was that he doesn't age, i've seen it mentioned before how it appeals to the younger generation now but thats irrelevant. this links back to my point about Ash and Red being the same, Ash is the repetitive character, going through his journey, then ultimately restarting and repeating the process. While Red is the real-time equivalent of Ash, pretty much meaning if Ash aged he would be where Red is.
  #32    
Old August 4th, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mentalii View Post
On the contrary, each new season he regresses more and more. The only way to change that is unfortunately to replace him. Ash is the character of my childhood, so it's difficult to imagine the animé without him, but now we need changement, Ash's done, he hasn't anything new to show now.
He "resets", same as every time a new game comes out. You aren't allowed to carry over Level 100 Pokemon from Gen 3 or 4 to Gen 5 and be a master at the start. If we have to start over every region, why does it matter if Ash does?

He's not done. As long as Game Freak keeps making games, Ash will have somewhere new to travel and new Pokemon to catch and train. I don't see this regression everyone seems to love to point out. It always falls back to the Trip battle against Snivy. 2 things about that battle:
1-Zekrom disabled Pikachu's Electric attacks, and being an Electric Pokemon, that takes its strongest moves away from it.
2-No one ever mentions it (probably because it would flaw Trip's Snivy and make Pikachu look like it was cheated) but Snivy being fresh and supposedly only at Lv. 5 knew Leaf Tornado, a move it can't learn until Lv. 16.

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Originally Posted by Mentalii View Post
He hasn't evolved that much since Sinnoh I think... It was the moment to really change it, I mean, they wanted a new departure for him so it was the opportunity, wasn't it? But no, it's just another season with a ten years old Ash.


Perhaps because 10 years old is the age of the target demographic and has been since Red and Green came out?

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Originally Posted by Mentalii View Post
If it's always like that Pokémon anime could be endless, with the lack of scenario, it's real pity for a so fabulous universe, even though they have so many means ... And of course he's more mature than when he started in Kanto, but the fact that he was so childish at that time doesn't bother since he was a young boy that was just starting his adventure ! Now that scenario that occurs almost each new season again becomes boring.
If games keep coming, the anime will probably keep going. The anime brings kids into the games (that's how I got into them) so if it helps sell games, they'll keep it.

Ash is still a young boy, which perfectly explains why he isn't a Master yet. And again, reseting represents the restart at the beginning of each game we go through. But each region he goes to has different events that take place, like Best Wishes has the Junior World Championship. And everyone thought Ash was going to face Drayden for his last badge, but he faced Roxie instead. Each region is not a complete copy of the previous one.

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Originally Posted by G Deoxys View Post
On the topic of Red and Ash resembling one another, Honestly i believe they are two sides of the same coin, they are the same but different. Red ages, doesn't say anything stupid, actually wins stuff, and is the ultimate pokemon master.
While on the other hand you have ash. Doesn't age, is annoying and always makes a fool of himself, somehow manages to lose everything (besides the orange islands) and dreams of being a pokemon master.
Having a perfect, unbeatable trainer is better than one that is more human? Goku made mistakes in DBZ too, despite being the best.

These issues with Ash:
Doesn't age - doesn't matter. He's a cartoon.
Annoying and makes a fool of himself - It's a kids show, he has to do silly things for laughs.
Lose everything - 44 badges, and various smaller things he's done. Not toe mention being the first person ever to KO Tobias's Darkrai.

He's not a failure. Not winning the Pokemon League =/= crappy trainer. Paul is thought to be one of Ash's greatest rivals by a lot of people, but he also lost in the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn leagues.

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Originally Posted by G Deoxys View Post
The big mistake they made with Ash was that he doesn't age, i've seen it mentioned before how it appeals to the younger generation now but thats irrelevant. this links back to my point about Ash and Red being the same, Ash is the repetitive character, going through his journey, then ultimately restarting and repeating the process. While Red is the real-time equivalent of Ash, pretty much meaning if Ash aged he would be where Red is.
And that would make the show better? No, it would make the show predictable and then they'd replace him and do the exact same thing over and over again. THAT would be boring, to watch basically the same character just with a different look and name do the exact same thing every time. At least with Ash, they can play with stories and such. Can you imagine what the fanbase would say if Red lost a battle if he were in the anime?
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  #33    
Old August 4th, 2012, 08:11 PM
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I don't think the should replace Ash and Pikachu. But I think Ash should've aged in each series. Kanto series (age 10) Johto series (age 12) Hoenn series (age 14) Sinnoh (age 16) Unova (age 18). then maybe after the unova region go in about 20 years in the future. Have Ash have a son give him a pikachu the son of Ash's Pikachu and have a journey just like his father.
  #34    
Old February 9th, 2014, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
He "resets", same as every time a new game comes out. You aren't allowed to carry over Level 100 Pokemon from Gen 3 or 4 to Gen 5 and be a master at the start. If we have to start over every region, why does it matter if Ash does?

He's not done. As long as Game Freak keeps making games, Ash will have somewhere new to travel and new Pokemon to catch and train. I don't see this regression everyone seems to love to point out. It always falls back to the Trip battle against Snivy. 2 things about that battle:
1-Zekrom disabled Pikachu's Electric attacks, and being an Electric Pokemon, that takes its strongest moves away from it.
2-No one ever mentions it (probably because it would flaw Trip's Snivy and make Pikachu look like it was cheated) but Snivy being fresh and supposedly only at Lv. 5 knew Leaf Tornado, a move it can't learn until Lv. 16.

[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Perhaps because 10 years old is the age of the target demographic and has been since Red and Green came out?
[COLOR=royalblue]


If games keep coming, the anime will probably keep going. The anime brings kids into the games (that's how I got into them) so if it helps sell games, they'll keep it.

Ash is still a young boy, which perfectly explains why he isn't a Master yet. And again, reseting represents the restart at the beginning of each game we go through. But each region he goes to has different events that take place, like Best Wishes has the Junior World Championship. And everyone thought Ash was going to face Drayden for his last badge, but he faced Roxie instead. Each region is not a complete copy of the previous one.



Having a perfect, unbeatable trainer is better than one that is more human? Goku made mistakes in DBZ too, despite being the best.

These issues with Ash:
Doesn't age - doesn't matter. He's a cartoon.
Annoying and makes a fool of himself - It's a kids show, he has to do silly things for laughs.
Lose everything - 44 badges, and various smaller things he's done. Not toe mention being the first person ever to KO Tobias's Darkrai.

He's not a failure. Not winning the Pokemon League =/= crappy trainer. Paul is thought to be one of Ash's greatest rivals by a lot of people, but he also lost in the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn leagues.



And that would make the show better? No, it would make the show predictable and then they'd replace him and do the exact same thing over and over again. THAT would be boring, to watch basically the same character just with a different look and name do the exact same thing every time. At least with Ash, they can play with stories and such. Can you imagine what the fanbase would say if Red lost a battle if he were in the anime?
I like you. You have good points, but you want to know what's boring? How predictable the show is at the moment. I recently watched from the start of Kanto, all the way through the first season of black and white. The thing that is predictable is his journey, all he ever does is win eight badges then loses in the championship. That crap they pulled with Tobias was horrible, but then again they could've just ended his Ash's run right there. Fairytale ending for him. Unova - New continent, doesn't have anything to do with Ash. After the first few episodes of black and white I had a massive facepalm moment when Ash versed the new trainer WITH PIKACHU NO LESS and had his *** handed too him. He didn't even know what was going on. Lol. THAT is why they need a new trainer. Ash has been overused.
  #35    
Old February 9th, 2014, 12:41 AM
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Thanks for revisiting your thread, but it's been over a year since it was last posted in. Gonna have to close it, sorry. :x
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