First Hack of the Quarter - 2012

[Ach7AC]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

For you guys who actually voted for snakewood, did you actually play it? Not to be mean to the owner, but when I say CoolBoyman play it during the Rom Hacking Charity, it was really disappointed. A lot of the maps were ruby maps, with added rocks. . . Most of the fakemon where just pallet edits, and some of the trainers looked really weird.

I was surprised by how popular it was, and how it could be in this competition, let a lone be winning, I know that sounds mean, but it's true. . .

I do not exactly agree with you. Snakewood did take place in a post-apocalyptic Hoenn, so it would be natural to use Ruby's default maps. Not to mention that Cutlerine did create a bunch of new maps, such as the Shakya Monastery, the S.S. Cangrejo, and the Lilycove Sewers. Plus, even though I have to agree that Cutlerine's spriting skills are... not really above average, to put it in a polite manner, his story is truly unique. Even though zombies have been done to death(pardon the pun) in modern media, the plot twists, the sheer amount of factions, they all took my attention. To paraphrase Cutlerine, "While a pretty picture can take your attention for five minutes, an engaging plot can enrapture a person for hours." You can't really judge a hack's quality just by seeing its first few scenes.

In my opinion, Cutlerine's game was successful, his intent was not showing off with well-done sprites, nor was to showcase his mapping skills, but it was to tell a serious and dramatic story, with a few insanely crazy bits and pieces.

But I have to say something, Snakewood seems to be a love-it-or-hate-it game, sort of like Baro's Quartz.

[manutdrule]

Originally Posted by Ach7AC

I do not exactly agree with you. Snakewood did take place in a post-apocalyptic Hoenn, so it would be natural to use Ruby's default maps. Not to mention that Cutlerine did create a bunch of new maps, such as the Shakya Monastery, the S.S. Cangrejo, and the Lilycove Sewers. Plus, even though I have to agree that Cutlerine's spriting skills are... not really above average, to put it in a polite manner, his story is truly unique. Even though zombies have been done to death(pardon the pun) in modern media, the plot twists, the sheer amount of factions, they all took my attention. To paraphrase Cutlerine, "While a pretty picture can take your attention for five minutes, an engaging plot can enrapture a person for hours." You can't really judge a hack's quality just by seeing its first few scenes.

In my opinion, Cutlerine's game was successful, his intent was not showing off with well-done sprites, nor was to showcase his mapping skills, but it was to tell a serious and dramatic story, with a few insanely crazy bits and pieces.

But I have to say something, Snakewood seems to be a love-it-or-hate-it game, sort of like Baro's Quartz.

agree with this. Of the countless hacks ive played, only Snakewood stands out for its interesting story and zombie theme.

It may not even be pretty (there are MANY other hacks of those with unique tilesets and creative mapsets and other watnots) but playing Snakewood felt...refreshing compared to playing other hacks which are basically just the same old boring "beat the gyms and elite4 while defeating so-and-so evil team" concept.

.

[NarutoActor]

While a nice story line is something I expect, it is part of the aspect of professionalism. I feel that, that is the most important part. All problems people could have with a Rom Hack are really just lack of professionalism, does it look professionally done? Is the question everyone must ask themselves when they play a hack. Does this look like it could have been a legit game? If it fails to do that, then the hack needs to be fixed.

[machomuu]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

While a nice story line is something I expect, it is part of the aspect of professionalism. I feel that, that is the most important part. All problems people could have with a Rom Hack are really just lack of professionalism, does it look professionally done? Is the question everyone must ask themselves when they play a hack. Does this look like it could have been a legit game? If it fails to do that, then the hack needs to be fixed.

I disagree, a good hack can have a crappy presentation. For instance, Pokemon Ash's Quest, despite it's flaws, was a pretty good hack, and yet it was simply dropped off in the scrapbox and touched again but once, it wasn't too professional looking, either. Similarly, there are games out there that don't have good presentation but are insanely fun.

[NarutoActor]

A Lack of professionalism shows a lack of effort, and lack of effort equals less fun. If you're in to lock quality, then go head play it, but this thread is for the Best Hack, not the most fun. The best hack, hack meaning hacking, as in things beyond what you can do with Advance Map. Adding Text, trainers and some events (plus rocks) does not equal a Hack.

Also as to the argument that is is, post Hoen apocalypse doesn't satisfy wouldn't you think things would still look diferent, like empty houses, lots of messes, ect? There is a zombi in the PokeMart, is it that causal of a thing? Oh yeah buy some pokeballs, oh look a Zombi whats up? If the apocalypse happened now there would be houses in ruin, broken windows, fires, chaos, and people would run away from zombies! I don't understand, did the Zombies bring rocks with them? Because that was all that changed in those maps.

[machomuu]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

A Lack of professionalism shows a lack of effort, and lack of effort equals less fun. If you're in to lock quality, then go head play it, but this thread is for the Best Hack, not the most fun. The best hack, hack meaning hacking, as in things beyond what you can do with Advance Map. Adding Text, trainers and some events (plus rocks) does not equal a Hack.

Also as to the argument that is is, post Hoen apocalypse doesn't satisfy wouldn't you think things would still look diferent, like empty houses, lots of messes, ect? There is a zombi in the PokeMart, is it that causal of a thing? Oh yeah buy some pokeballs, oh look a Zombi whats up? If the apocalypse happened now there would be houses in ruin, broken windows, fires, chaos, and people would run away from zombies! I don't understand, did the Zombies bring rocks with them? Because that was all that changed in those maps.

First I would say that a lack of professionalism isn't always a lack of effort. Many people try their hardest to make something that we would consider "unprofessional". Not always, but it happens often enough. Sometimes it's a lack of vision, sometimes it's eccentric vision, sometimes it's lack of creativity, and sometimes it's layout ignorance, all of which I have seen on more than one occasion, and that's more a lack of ability or difference in vision than anything else (though, as I said, it's not always the case. And I would say those things are a hack. Simply adding a rock is a hack; it may not equal a good hack, but a hack nonetheless. But if people just edited those things, that's not to say the hack would be bad. Some hacks are way more fun simply because of edited characters or just because of text, some hacks have small changes so enticing that they actually successfully persuade many into playing the games again just for the small changes.

Also, about the "post-apocalyptic" theme, there are various ways one could go about this. Just because there exists a zombie, that doesn't mean the zombie is evil. There have been cases where zombies were allies or members of society. Also, there are many different types of apocalypses. There's the "No Destruction" type, often see in plague-induced disasters. Then there's the "No Electricity" route, where there's destruction, but it's not so much "disastrous" as it is desperate. Then there's the mainstream zombie apocalypse, the Nuclear War Apocalypse, the Natural Apocalypse- it all depends on the vision of the one telling the tale.

BTW, did you ever play the game?

[NarutoActor]

No that is a Mod, a hack requires more than that, and a little bit of skill. It is a lack of effort, anything can be done with enough effort, and knowledge (With knowledge obtainable through effort).

But that is not the storyline, the zombies are the bad guys, and thats why you are fighting them, it wouldn't be an apocalypse if they were your friends.

[machomuu]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

No that is a Mod, a hack requires more than that, and a little bit of skill. It is a lack of effort, anything can be done with enough effort, and knowledge (With knowledge obtainable through effort).

But that is not the storyline, the zombies are the bad guys, and thats why you are fighting them, it wouldn't be an apocalypse if they were your friends.

What I described was indeed a hack. You're changing a tile on a map to that of a rock. You are modding the game, but you are changing the hex to create the rock texture, thus it's both. In many cases, a hack is a mod (I did my research on the subject, but a quick Google search wouldn't hurt. A hack can be as simply as changing a single piece of text, and I can guarantee you that one doesn't take more effort or content than the other. If you don't believe me, look up Elsweyr for Oblivion and then compare that to...any hack in the hack showcase, there was quite an extensive amount of work done on it.

Also, that's not completely true about effort. One may think that what they have is perfectly fine, and that they did put all of their effort and knowledge into making it, does their ignorance mean that they didn't put enough effort into it? Is that even really ignorance at all? No, because it's their opinion that what they've made is "professional", and it's strictly someone else's opinion that it's not, the subject itself is very objective. A lack of effort implies that one didn't give it their all in what they were doing, and in many cases of unprofessionalism that's not the case.

Also, have you played the game?

[First time hacker]

All the hacks look great! I have played snakewood and the thing about it was even though it was the same maps, it was a completely different game. This hack had true originality and creativity to it. Another remake (even though very well done) is a very used theme. I voted for Snakewood because my favorite part of hacks is starting a NEW adventure in pokemon.

[Fireworks]

I voted for Snakewood because Crystal Dust is a remake, and I've never heard of the other one. That and I enjoyed the storyline and it is the most original hack created to date.

[diegoisawesome]

Originally Posted by Fireworks

I voted for Snakewood because Crystal Dust is a remake, and I've never heard of the other one. That and I enjoyed the storyline and it is the most original hack created to date.

So you didn't vote for CrystalDust just because it's a remake? I'm okay with you voting for Snakewood, but being a remake doesn't mean that it's a bad hack, and you're supposed to judge based on quality, not necessarily originality.

[miksy91]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

A Lack of professionalism shows a lack of effort, and lack of effort equals less fun. If you're in to lock quality, then go head play it, but this thread is for the Best Hack, not the most fun. The best hack, hack meaning hacking, as in things beyond what you can do with Advance Map. Adding Text, trainers and some events (plus rocks) does not equal a Hack.

I agree with the part about professionalism - most hacks lack this and is the main reason I often get bored with each one I play. I've finished Ruby Destiny Rescue Rangers a couple of years ago but don't think I've played through any other rom hack since then (expect for finishing Prism's summer beta but that's that). Yet even both of these were missing the real excitement even if they had lots of nice scripting, especially Prism.

About the other fact though, I've to disagree even though I also used to think like you do. We should be voting for the most entertaining hack, not the hack with the most skillful creator. I believe diegoisawesome is the best among the three of us although it's hard to say anything for sure, I too am pretty fluent with (GB) assembly these days, and can't say a thing about Cutlerine. But that's not the point of the competition now is it ?

Personally, if I had never played G/S/C (wouldn't be creating Dark Future then though, hahha), I would vote for CrystalDust instead of Snakewood (and possibly my own hack). It would be something way more original then but I'm not a big fan of remakes myself so haven't gotten far with it either (not sure if I have even ever played it or not ?!). This far, I haven't voted for any because it's a bit unclear whether you can vote for your hack or not but would that really make a difference if all three of us did so.

Originally Posted by uran10

Now like I said Snakewood has got this, great storyline, great character development. If dark future was completed it probably would be kicking some butt right now.

You've no idea how right you're right with this assumption as the game (storylinely-wise) doesn't really even begin in Beta 3.

[Bix Nood]

Voting for Dark Future, since Miksy did a lot of awfully hard work on it, and it's nice to see Silver so thoroughly hacked.

[Tcoppy]

Originally Posted by NarutoActor

No that is a Mod, a hack requires more than that, and a little bit of skill. It is a lack of effort, anything can be done with enough effort, and knowledge (With knowledge obtainable through effort).

But that is not the storyline, the zombies are the bad guys, and thats why you are fighting them, it wouldn't be an apocalypse if they were your friends.

I love how you keep dodgeing this question.

Also, have you played the game?

If it's a no, why bother commenting on a hack you never played. If it's a yes, then that's your opinion but doesn't give you the right to talk down about a hack that "isn't as beautiful as Flora Sky" (the tiles hurt my eyes in that hack) but what mostly is a beautiful hack has an unoriginal story. I'd rather pick an original hack then a graphicly amazing.

I voted for Snakewood because I never played the other two games but I might give them a try.

[LiquoriceBeef]

Off-topic: Hi, I'm new to PC btw.
On-topic: My vote goes to Snakewood because it has a great storyline, creepy zombie Pokes and some cool Fakemon. I'd love to play CrystalDust but I have a Mac and the latest version of VBA-M won't run in my WineBottler, so :c
I'm going to try Dark Future; but if it were just between Snakewood and Crystal Dust, it'd be a tie 'cause Crystal Dust looks EPIC.

[snip]

[PokemonGiratinaX]

I have vote Snakewood because it have a new storyline and new Pokemon. I also liked it because it have a "Zombie Theme" and that is rare to find in many Pokemon Hack. Also, I like the reference and the new character in this hack.

[Fireworks]

Originally Posted by diegoisawesome

So you didn't vote for CrystalDust just because it's a remake? I'm okay with you voting for Snakewood, but being a remake doesn't mean that it's a bad hack, and you're supposed to judge based on quality, not necessarily originality.

I will vote on every aspect of the hack, including originality. In my opinion there is no point in making a remake when there are a countless amount of them already out there, the reason Shiny Gold was loved so much is because it was new, it hadn't been done and everyone wanted a remake. Now we have Shiny Gold, Liquid Crystal, Oro Sole, that one on WAH, the one ZodiacDaGreat made, tons of newbies have tried to make one, your own hack, and even Game Freak made remakes.

Now think about it. Do we really need another one? Seriously? No thinking goes into it, you're not writing your own plot, you're not making your own sprites--well, other than the few people that take a sprite from the originals and change the colours on it thinking it looks good--you're not making your own maps, you're barely doing anything at all, you're porting Game Freak's work from their game into yours.

I'm not saying your hack is bad, it could be a really amazing hack, but I don't feel we need more remakes, there are very few original hacks out there, Snakewood is without a doubt one of the most original, whereas remakes are the least. I think Snakewood has tons of flaws, but I'm voting for it because it is more original than the others and new hackers should be aspiring to make something that will have people gripped and entertained, something different that people can gain ideas from, as a community should, instead of something that everyone and their mother has done.

[machomuu]

So far Crystal Dust is very impressive, it may be a mostly pure remake, but as a hacker, I appreciate all of the work put into it and how it was utilized (seriously, the use of ASM is mindblowing). The music melds so well with the voicegroups, it's really commendable, and the sprites look professional, all of which I appreciate; heck, you'd think it was an official game. I still have to try the other two, but if they are anywhere near as impressive...well, I'll be anticipating great things in the future of Pokemon Rom Hacking.

[manutdrule]

Originally Posted by machomuu

So far Crystal Dust is very impressive, it may be a mostly pure remake, but as a hacker, I appreciate all of the work put into it and how it was utilized (seriously, the use of ASM is mindblowing). The music melds so well with the voicegroups, it's really commendable, and the sprites look professional, all of which I appreciate; heck, you'd think it was an official game. I still have to try the other two, but if they are anywhere near as impressive...well, I'll be anticipating great things in the future of Pokemon Rom Hacking.

if all that hacking prowess had been used for say, Snakewood with its more original story (and maybe refined a little). Was precisely thinking if Snakewood has better graphics/sounds/ASM...perhaps some grimy L4D2/Fallout esque post apocalyptic tilesets/mapping plus better designed sprites for the Fakemon (rather than just recolor), woot. What about custom music relating to zombie themed pop culture? We would easily had ourself a Hack of the Year.

Felt it was wasted on a hack which already has countless remakes. Already have more than enough my fill of nostalgia playing HGSS/Shiny Gold/LiquidCrystal/Gen2 hacks etc thank you.

[Ach7AC]

Originally Posted by manutdrule

if all that hacking prowess had been used for say, Snakewood with its more original story (and maybe refined a little). Was precisely thinking if Snakewood has better graphics/sounds/ASM...perhaps some grimy L4D2/Fallout esque post apocalyptic tilesets/mapping plus better designed sprites for the Fakemon (rather than just recolor), woot. What about custom music relating to zombie themed pop culture? We would easily had ourself a Hack of the Year.

Felt it was wasted on a hack which already has countless remakes. Already have more than enough my fill of nostalgia playing HGSS/Shiny Gold/LiquidCrystal/Gen2 hacks etc thank you.

That's sort of missing Cutlerine's point. Snakewood was his successful attempt of showing that a good storyline can make a hack go as far as decent graphics and sprites. But when it comes to ASM, I'm pretty sure that with the twisted Hoenn setting, there could be quite a lot of potential.

Returning to Crystal Dust. Even though the game is highly refined and is of excellent quality, it sort of lacks in originality. ShinyGold is only famous as it was one of the first attempts at re-creating Johto with a Gen. III engine. Nowadays, there is not only Crystal Dust, several other small attempts at re-making Johto, and ShinyGold, but the official DS remakes (HG/SS), and even the more game-wise advanced Liquid Crystal.

Dark future also seems interesting with a few original concepts like Snakewood, and I will likely play it once it is finished. Especially since this may be an unique experience, considering how rare are the Gen I and Gen II hacks.

Like I said above, every hack has its own charms, so this "X hack is the worst hack ever because I didn't like Y." is really getting old.

[machomuu]

^That's really the point of CD, though. Crystal Dust is so impressive simply because it's a pure remake, something I usually loathe. It uses advanced and creative hacking techniques to replicate that of GSC, rather than taking liberties to make something new at the expense of various features. Thus, it is original in it's own right, as no other game actually does what it does, I'd say decrying the game for that would be a mistake, but it's subjective.

Originally Posted by manutdrule

if all that hacking prowess had been used for say, Snakewood with its more original story (and maybe refined a little). Was precisely thinking if Snakewood has better graphics/sounds/ASM...perhaps some grimy L4D2/Fallout esque post apocalyptic tilesets/mapping plus better designed sprites for the Fakemon (rather than just recolor), woot. What about custom music relating to zombie themed pop culture? We would easily had ourself a Hack of the Year.

Felt it was wasted on a hack which already has countless remakes. Already have more than enough my fill of nostalgia playing HGSS/Shiny Gold/LiquidCrystal/Gen2 hacks etc thank you.

Great, but I wasn't contributing to any argument or debate, I was just making a general statement.

[CycloneGU]

Originally Posted by manutdrule

if all that hacking prowess had been used for say, Snakewood with its more original story (and maybe refined a little). Was precisely thinking if Snakewood has better graphics/sounds/ASM...perhaps some grimy L4D2/Fallout esque post apocalyptic tilesets/mapping plus better designed sprites for the Fakemon (rather than just recolor), woot. What about custom music relating to zombie themed pop culture? We would easily had ourself a Hack of the Year.

Felt it was wasted on a hack which already has countless remakes. Already have more than enough my fill of nostalgia playing HGSS/Shiny Gold/LiquidCrystal/Gen2 hacks etc thank you.

I'm sorry, but I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Snakewood contains a lot of Fakemon in it. For me, a Pokémon hack should still be centered around the Pokémon. Not fake creations (see Quartz, where all 251 got makeovers with their existing stats). And the storyline, while there are interesting elements, takes away from a true Pokémon game by not requiring a Trainer to battle all of the Gym Leaders before the Elite 4. These two differences make it feel less like a Pokémon game. I admit the screenshots look great, but there's something to be said for visiting familiar places.

You also have to note the other real challenge here. CrystalDust is a remake of Crystal on the platform of EMERALD - I mean, if Diegos wants, he could stick Hoenn Pokémon all over Johto! They're already coded, nothing fake! He has a full 386 Pokémon to play with, and can even create new storylines right in the middle of the Crystal storyline if he wishes (see Millenium Comet with Jirachi, or a way to summon Deoxys by collecting certain items scattered across Johto and Kanto). And they're the real thing, not what Crystal itself would call "Fakemon".

In other words, I'd say redoing the entire G/S/C game here is a solid effort in the ROM hacking realm. It's definitely not a "waste of time". It's still a beta, not a finished product, and deserves support. Heck, I'm playing it right now as I type.

Cyclone

[machomuu]

There is a crapton of work put into Crystal Dust, and it's just plain inconsiderate to trash it because "it's been done". There are a bunch of games that have been done and redone in different ways and no one seems to care. The fact of the matter is, you're getting an option to play a game that someone put hours upon hours of work into creating, for free, I might add. Then to say "that work is wasted, it could be put to use on something better" is not only inconsiderate, it's almost downright criminal. Just plain disgusting. CD is a different take on GSC, and at the same time, it's the same take, but done differently than has been done before. It adds to the variety of choices, most of which are free, of GSC remake hacks, and you'll actually complain about this? Really? I doubt Snakewood's creator wouldn't be so happy hearing that his job could be done so much better, and then having all of the flaws of his hack pointed out. Oh, and he's doing this for free, too. It's just plain disgusting, and completely inconsiderate.

[SK3]

My vote is split between Dark Future and CrystalDust, respectively.
I respect every hacker who has his hack represented in this competition, however I can honestly say, after playing, I did not enjoy Snakewood as much as I did Dark Future and CrystalDust. It did not feel like a Pokemon game to me. Although I am a person who respects originality, and am completely open to it, there is a certain point where you draw the line, the line being where you lose that "Pokemon feel". The zombies, the Fakemon, was a total turn-off for me. Not following Nintendo's footsteps when you make your hack can end up leading to something epic or something disappointing.

However, I'm not here to diss this hack, just share my experience with it. The amount of time and effort Cutlerine put towards it is very commendable. Considering he completed pretty the entire project by himself makes me respect him. However, I still enjoy the other two hacks more, because tons of effort were put into them as well, but they also came out to be very enjoyable (for me, at least). That's just my two cents

[Fireworks]

Originally Posted by CycloneGU

I'm sorry, but I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Snakewood contains a lot of Fakemon in it. For me, a Pokémon hack should still be centered around the Pokémon. Not fake creations (see Quartz, where all 251 got makeovers with their existing stats). And the storyline, while there are interesting elements, takes away from a true Pokémon game by not requiring a Trainer to battle all of the Gym Leaders before the Elite 4. These two differences make it feel less like a Pokémon game. I admit the screenshots look great, but there's something to be said for visiting familiar places.

You also have to note the other real challenge here. CrystalDust is a remake of Crystal on the platform of EMERALD - I mean, if Diegos wants, he could stick Hoenn Pokémon all over Johto! They're already coded, nothing fake! He has a full 386 Pokémon to play with, and can even create new storylines right in the middle of the Crystal storyline if he wishes (see Millenium Comet with Jirachi, or a way to summon Deoxys by collecting certain items scattered across Johto and Kanto). And they're the real thing, not what Crystal itself would call "Fakemon".

In other words, I'd say redoing the entire G/S/C game here is a solid effort in the ROM hacking realm. It's definitely not a "waste of time". It's still a beta, not a finished product, and deserves support. Heck, I'm playing it right now as I type.

Cyclone

It's not just a hack, it's a fake Pokémon game, therefore a Fakémon game.
Try again.