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Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.

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  #1    
Old August 10th, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Don't worry, it's not about how ugly the new ones are! I posted this as a response to a topic about the generations on an unrelated forum, but I thought I'd bring it here, too:

Quote:
I preferred gen 1 over gen 5 for the atmosphere surrounding Pokemon at the time.

Keeping in mind that things are different as a child and as an adult, there seemed to be so many more secrets and spending hours trying to uncover them was worth it. An evening spent scouring the Internet for clues on how to find that mythical Mew or for new hearsay paid off when we all discussed it on the playground the next day, thinking we were one step further. There weren't nearly as many guides, videos, official statements, etc, that could solve the puzzles or truly debunk the rumors, though we may have just been inefficient children and didn't find them.

With the coming of EVs, natures, breeding, and egg moves individual Pokemon became easily disposable. When all Blastoise were created equal but for a few stat differences, putting weeks of work into leveling one the old-fashioned way was something to be proud of. Now the trophies are things like shinies - legit or not - or Pokemon you've tediously bred through generations of discarded parents and grandparents for perfect numbers.

Modern Pokemon probably appeals more to battlers now that it has a more complex system for that, as well as people who want to collect. I was an adventurer and a social player, and there's precious little uncharted territory left and too few people to explore it with at my age.
I'm curious what everyone else thinks, especially others who've been with Pokemon since its introduction. Was the atmosphere surrounding the games different during gen 1? Was it better or worse? Was there more mystery or more opportunity and motivation to play with other people?

If you're curious about the "old fart" thing, I'm in my early twenties now.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle Blue View Post
Don't worry, it's not about how ugly the new ones are! I posted this as a response to a topic about the generations on an unrelated forum, but I thought I'd bring it here, too:

I'm curious what everyone else thinks, especially others who've been with Pokemon since its introduction. Was the atmosphere surrounding the games different during gen 1? Was it better or worse? Was there more mystery or more opportunity and motivation to play with other people?

If you're curious about the "old fart" thing, I'm in my early twenties now.
The atmosphere was better in Gen I than in Gen V for some of us, but that is merely a matter of opinion. However, it can also be because of nostalgia based on the blissful ignorance that we had as children. And that isn't a bad thing.

The guy who posted that is definitely influenced by nostalgia, there's no doubt about that. Like I say, the atmosphere was completely different because he was a kid. This is the same for me.

However, I still enjoy the games to this day, even the newer ones, because they're insanely fun games. That's all there is to it. I prefer the older games, but the newer ones are still great.

There's probably some kid playing Black and/or White now who will post on here in 5-10 years saying "Wow, I remember how uncomplicated Black and White were back in my day. There's just no sense of adventure in Pokemon Teal!" or something like that. Just wait and see.
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  #3    
Old August 10th, 2012, 04:52 PM
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Every Generation I get the same feeling I did when I begged, pleaded, and worked my butt off to get the Generation 1 games. For me the air is still the same. I'm a little more serious now than I was when the games first came out, even though I was hardcore about battling as many people as I could even back then. The newer battle mechanics added in the later generations made everything more exciting for me.

Also...just to point out, but EVs have existed since Generation 1. It wasn't as well known and done slightly different as EVs were redone in Generation 3 to the current method, but EVs did exist in Generation 1. They even had it as part of a quiz in Blaine's Gym.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 06:22 PM
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How can you like generation 1 for atmosphere? I'm not too picky when it comes to graphics, but Red/blue/green/yellow graphics were just a bit too bad for me to bother playing. That's why I've never beat any of them before.

2nd generation was perfect! The graphics were just good enough so you could see what was what, and it had a nice atmosphere
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Old August 10th, 2012, 06:38 PM
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See, this is the argument that most nostalgia-addled people are actually making, but they don't feel that it's good enough so they try to obscure it with more 'objective' reasons for thinking the games are better.

I love the movie Hercules and Xena. I know it's a crappy movie. I know that there are a million movies that are better than it, and probably many Hercules-based movies better than it. I love it because I watched it as a kid and memorized the songs and when I watch it I get nostalgic. That's why I love it and there's nothing wrong with it until people start claiming that the new games are objectively worse than the old games because they can't accept that their personal opinion differs from objective logic due to nostalgia.

As far as my opinion on the generations? The fifth has been the best socially for me. I've never been a social butterfly. I played my games on my own, only connecting with my sister for things. So when I was a kid, Pokemon was never something that became a social thing for me. However, when I got B/W, I went with 4 other people from my college. I talked to them every day about it, and then joined a Pokemon forum for the first time to have a wider base to discuss it with. My social experience with B/W has been better than any past generation.

Edit: And, for people that aren't big on the later generations around my age, they have a lot of people to talk to. But I don't talk to those people because it personally annoys me. I'm annoyed by people that claim they love Pokemon and the words Castelia or Kyurem mean nothing to them. I know it's on the judgmental side and I should let them have their own opinions but no one is perfect so I just try to avoid talking Pokemon with people because 95% of the time they'll just disappoint me.
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  #6    
Old August 10th, 2012, 07:28 PM
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I like OP's way of thinking.

With that said, I like all Generations of Pokemon, and Gen 5 is quite possibly my favorite in terms of the quality of the gameplay and the openness of exploration. Unova had a ton of secrets in BW1. It's surprising how non-linear it actually is overall, compared to older Generations that offered a more diversely laid out region yet had less exploration. After all, the exploration and Variety are what makes the single-player Pokemon experience for me.

Playing Generation I games even today though has a feel that modern Pokémon just doesn't. Is Gen I as GOOD in terms of quality, storytelling, and polish as today's Pokémon games? Certainly not. But Generations I and II, I think, have a special charm that can be attributed entirely to the hardware limitations of the Game Boy. The Graphics weren't fancy, detailed and beautiful, but simple and charming. I still love Generation II's tileset and sprites just because of the feel the gave the game, and the GameBoy music perfected the experience in it's own, imperfect way.

In short, Gen I and II were good for being not as good, and current Generations are good for being better designed in terms of gameplay. That's what I think. The old games also stand quite well for me just because of my fascination with some of the strange workarounds and odd coding techniques that resulted in some of the infamous glitches and glitch Pokemon in Generation I.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 08:11 AM
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I liked Generation I better than the latter ones for a few reasons. The biggest is that its just a lot simpler. Obviously the added complexity was needed as more games were made, but I personally just like the older, simpler way better.

I also like the generation I pokemon the best. Sort of like more animal like. A huge turn off for me is seeing pokemon with cannons for hands (Magmortar) or made of trash (Trubbish), or a lamp (some new Ghost type). There were some pokemon like that way back when, like Blastoise and Muk, but it was more subtle and didn't really bother me.

Another thing that bothers me about the new generations is the absolutely massive amount of legendary pokemon that each introduces. I'm perfectly happy with a trio and a couple main ones. Now the last 2 generations had 13 legendaries each. Thats more than the first 2 put together. I'm also not fond of the way a couple of the new legendaries are portrayed, either. They make Arceus out to be God or something, thats a little bit too intense for something like Pokemon in my opinion.

These are just my opinions, of course. I'm sure there are people who enjoy the new generations more because they're more complex, the pokemon are more out there, and there are more legendaries. To each his own.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 05:53 AM
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Just posting to say that if this topic gets heated or someone wants to rage their guts out, it will be locked. It's fine so far and I like the pace it's going at, so hopefully we can keep that up. :) But this is just a warning for now. These topics tend to get heated quickly, and I'm not going to let it escalate too much, so yes, one slip, and it's done. Unfortunately, that's just how former threads like this went and I don't want to deal with reports every other day in this thread. But like I said, it's fine right now, so carry on. :)

For the record, I love all generations. I think they all have their pros and cons. My favorite is gen III because I love the Pokemon designs and RSE has the most nostalgia for me. My least favorite is gen IV mainly because of DP's slow speed and I also just dislike the design of Sinnoh. It's a pain to get around, lol. But hey, that's what some people liked about it. Though there aren't any generations that I just hate for whatever reason. When I say I dislike gen IV, that's mainly directed at DP. Platinum is still great because at least it's more bearable to get around the region without you surfing like a slug or battling like an old person. And then I feel that HGSS restored gen IV even more. So yeah...it's not really too much dislike for gen IV, just DP. lol

Basically, for me: III > V/II > I > IV
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Old September 14th, 2012, 11:46 AM
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I think each generation has its own strengths and weaknesses. I've been playing since the early days - Pokemon Yellow was the second game I owned after Donkey Kong Country 2, so Pokemon was my initiation to gaming, and Generation I my initiation to Pokemon, so to speak. If I was to highlight certain aspects that some generations did well, and some generations did poorly, it'd be something like this:

Pokemon design: I'll say straight off the bat that I'm not going declare certain designs objectively worse. The designs are subjective and will appeal to different people in different ways. What I can say, is that I always found myself attracted designs with a few particular characteristics. The first was simplicity of design. I used to love drawing when I was younger, even if I wasn't particularly good at it, and because of this I tended to prefer simpler Pokemon designs with more rounded and egg-like bodies than the over-complicated ones. I liked Pokemon designs that instantly told you what type they were - the type chart is so complicated, with 289 different different interactions, that not being able to immediately figure out what type a Pokemon was always seemed a chore to me, and lessened the fun in battling it. I liked Pokemon designs that stuck to one or two colours - I'm not sure why this one appeals! It just seems lessy "messy" to me than some of the more polychromatic designs. I dislike baby Pokemon unless they add functionality to what they evolve into in the form of important new moves or something along those lines. I dislike "formes" - I think it weakens the identity of a Pokemon by giving it several different feels instead of one. I also dislike the over-abundance of legendaries. Admittedly, that last one isn't a reflection on design, but I think still helps categorise whether a particular generation added a good new line of Pokemon. So, that's what I find appealing in a good Pokemon design.

By and large, these traits seem to correlate with older generations. I'd guess this had something to do with hardware limits. The 60x60 sprite limitation and 4 colour (of which two had to be white and black) on the GameBoyColour meant that polychromatic, intricate designs didn't really exist. Today's 80x80 sprite size and 16 colour sprites are far less limited in what they can do, which has led to the complexity increasing. This is not to say I don't think there are good more recent designs - I wouldn't want to paint all designs from a single generation with the same brush. For example, from Generation V I'm fond of Darmanitan and Petilil, from Generation IV I like Floatzel, and from Generation III I'm partial to Breloom and Swampert. Nor does this mean I think there aren't bad designs from earlier generations. Gen I's Mr. Mime is profoundly unappealing, as a prime example! However, overall I think my like of Pokemon designs from each generation follows the trend:

II = I >> III >> V > IV

Mechanics: I think it's fairly clear that each Pokemon game has become better than the last in terms of how the actual gameplay works - we've made a huge progress from the early days. However, I also think we have to consider that Pokemon has also made extremely slow progress. While Black and White has improved on Red and Blue's foundation, given the sheer amount of time inbetween those generations, I think I'd have expected something a little more. For example, why are we still bound by grid movement, instead of having greater degrees of freedom? If the Ranger games can do it, why can't the mainline games? Why are we still using IVs and EVs as they currently are, a completely unexplained mechanic which is mostly hidden from the casual player and is instrumental in creating the divide between competitive and casual players? Why did RSE steps backwards from GSC in so many ways, in removing the day and night system, the ability to store money, and so much else? So in this context, I feel it is fair to make two separate divisions.

The first is how good each generation's mechanics was relative to its era, and the second is how good a generation's mechanics in absolute terms. In relative terms, GSC was a big step up from RBY, which RSE then squandered completely and DPPt took little further, and in many ways made worse by compounding with an inordinately slow and clunky battle system. Thankfully, BW made some much needed changes, but still lags behind what I'd have expected from the series in that time. This leaves the list looking like this:

II > I >> V >> III > IV

In absolute terms, the games pretty much go in chronological order, for obvious reasons: in terms of gameplay, the series really has been getting better and better, although I still feel there is progress to be made in several areas. The only exception for me is Gen IV. The sacrifice of speed in battles causes the games to play incredibly slowly. I can't play DPPt for any great length of time, and miss the swift and snappy gameplay almost all the other generations present. Given how battling is the absolute fundamental part of the series, it seems fair to use this as a reason to "demote" it, leaving the list looking like this:

V > III > IV > II >> I.

Region: Each game has a very different region in terms of how it plays, and I think there's quite a noticeable difference. As with design, this is a subjective measure, but I like my gameplay fast, and I like to be presented with a variety of options so I feel like I'm determining my own story (in other words, I'm a big fan of non-linearity). I also like variety - I like my worlds to have a whole host of different locales. To top it all off, more content is usually a winner.

Generation I offers a region you can move around swiftly that is also quite large. It presents the largest element of non-linearity in the whole series - after beating Brock and Misty, you can defeat the remaining gym leaders in almost any order! (I always used to leave Sabrina til last in Yellow because that Lvl. 50 Alakazam was a beast!) The one area it really falls down, however, is variety. Because of the limitations of the GameBoy, all areas are basically the same and there's no great variation in landscape.

Generation II also presents quick and easy movement, but the non-linearity has been reduced a little. There are less possible orders in which you can take in your next challenge. In addition, Generation II is quite challenged in terms of content. While I love the fact both Kanto and Johto were present, the amount of memory this required meant that Kanto feels like an abandoned wasteland and even Johto is more than a little sparse. It also suffers from a similar variety problem to Generation I, although improvements were made.

Generation III suffers from a movement problem. A larger proportion of RSE's map is sea routes than any other generation, and Surfing is also relatively slow compared to prior games. This means the latter half of RSE can drag on quite painfully simply through taking a long time to travel anywhere. In particular, making your way to both Sootopolis and the Elite Four was not really that fun. In addition, linearity has been reduced yet again. The upsides are that Generation III is quite content rich and has much, much better variation in areas visited than either of the previous generations. It's a shame it has to be marred so much by maybe the last fifth of the game.

Generation IV is good. The variety is probably the joint best in the series with Generation V, and it is content rich. The only points of criticism I have is linearity and speed. If you compare Generation I to Generation IV in terms of what you can do it any given point in the game, Generation I wins by a landslide. You also walk like an old man everywhere and Surf like a dead thing. Thankfully water routes are not as frequent as Gen III, so the Surfing is nto quite so problematic, but it is still a problem.

Generation V is much like Generation IV, but with the old problem exaggerated. BW are the most linear games in the series to date. You're effectively marched along a set path with no option, ever, to derail. I understand why this is - BW have a much more prominent story which requires events to be done in a certain order - but I was never in the Pokemon games for the story and I deeply miss the sense of exploration from the previous games.

So, in terms of regions:

I > II >> IV > V > III.

Story:

Okay, so this is a contentious one, and I'll start off hitting hard: I've never cared for story in my Pokemon games. I'm in it for the exploration and the sense of being a kid out to explore the worlds with his Pokemon, not for the "saving humanity from legendary Pokemon!" schtick the series has headed onto recently. In particular, I found the story in BW nauseating and filled with the worst parts of modern RPGs, complete with silly names (Natural Harmonia Gropius? What in earth...), silly villains, the impossibility of a 10 year old controlling a being capable shifting the continents/destroying the universe/etc. It's also become worse lately by becoming more intrusive - the aforementioned linearity of BW. The only games with satisfying stories, for me, are Gen I and Gen II. Of these two, Gen I wins out by a little, simply because Gen II's antagonists are a rather weak and insipid reflection of their Gen I counterparts. Blue is also the best Champion, in terms of climax, of the series so far. Beating him represents a culmination of your progress against him throughout the game. So, the order goes like this:

I > II >> III > IV >> V.

I don't think there's anything major left, as far as the categories I've listed goes. For me, Generation II very narrowly edges out Generation I to take the "overall best" category, followed by Generation III, then IV and V essentially equal in last place. Some may say this is nostalgia, but I hope I've described my reasoning adequately enough that you can see it isn't true. In terms of what I look for from a Pokemon game, the series really has been declining lately. Hopefully, it'll start looking up.

EDIT: And actually, thinking about it, overall I think Generation V was maybe a very slight step-up from Generation IV, so I suppose the future is at least trending in the right way.

Last edited by Varin; September 14th, 2012 at 11:57 AM.
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  #10    
Old September 14th, 2012, 02:24 PM
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Its all personal.
Basically depends on when you started figuring out the deeper parts of how the games work.
But really, you can always make the next game an even greater experience if you want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefire360 View Post
Another thing that bothers me about the new generations is the absolutely massive amount of legendary pokemon that each introduces. I'm perfectly happy with a trio and a couple main ones. Now the last 2 generations had 13 legendaries each. Thats more than the first 2 put together. I'm also not fond of the way a couple of the new legendaries are portrayed, either. They make Arceus out to be God or something, thats a little bit too intense for something like Pokemon in my opinion.
I realised that you only get this feeling if you browse the net for a full list of new pokemon on day 1.

I mean sure, 13 is 13, and 13 is more than 6, but its not as bad as everyone always makes it seem.

In RBY/GS playthrough you end up at the E4 with 4 legends:
-the trio
-the mascot
In your random RS/DP/BW playthrough, you end up at the E4 with 5 legends:
-the trio
-an extra
-the mascot

The only thing thats really different is that there is now casual legends besides the trio (usually to spice up the post-game), but I always thought of those like pseudo-legends with just their final stage; and of course several event-legends to keep the generation alive by revealing them year by year.
Take away the events and ignore the extra legend and nothing has changed.

As for Arceus, its up to you to decide whether there is any credibility to the myths or if pokemon like this are just powerful pokemon. Their "myths" are never stated as fact.
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  #11    
Old September 14th, 2012, 02:33 PM
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I personally like Ruby best, since it was my first -real- game. But now that I play it, it's really kinda meh, and the battery's out :c

So what I think is that your first game will be your best, and other people's first game is their best. I think all the games are pretty good, and they're even adding in the nostalgia factor in the new BW2 games by reintroducing older Pokémon. I just think that nostalgia defines what we like, and I'm fine with that. Just keep it to yourselves.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 03:09 PM
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I personally like Ruby best, since it was my first -real- game. But now that I play it, it's really kinda meh, and the battery's out :c

So what I think is that your first game will be your best, and other people's first game is their best.
Disagreed. My first game was Yellow, and whilst definitely one of my favourites, GSC rank higher for me.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Disagreed. My first game was Yellow, and whilst definitely one of my favourites, GSC rank higher for me.
The emphasis being on the word "real". Though I had played Pokémon beforehand and had enjoyed it immensely, playing Ruby was when I was totally into Pokémon for the first time. It made my life a lot brighter. It was my first real introduction into the magic of Pokémon.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 03:26 PM
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I'm twenty and I remember the craze when I was 8, I can still picture the play ground with everyone trading cards. Everyone had a game boy at that point, so when the games came out we would sit on the street trying to level up the starters. The anime for me though, brought it all to life. With out it I wouldn't of got as hooked as I was and am today. Like many around my age, we all had a few years away from it all. I started it again after buying D/P, that's when I saw all of the natures, stat changes, breeding and such. So I fell out of love with it again, because even the anime became poor.

I don't know whether as you get older you 'grow up' in a way. But it'll never be the same, the excitement of Pokemon will just be a memory I hope to fill again with the same enthusiasm.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 07:58 PM
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I remember when Pokemon was in its fad days and EVERYONE was into Pokemon in some way, through the anime, the TCG, or the Burger King toys the had to promote the first movie. (We traded and battled all the time before they banned all toys and cards from school.)

Personally, I just think the games are fun. They may no longer have that "magical" feel to them but that's just age. I always look forward to a new main series game, and will be buying Black 2 (changed my mind from White 2) as soon as they come out here. (US)

I also try not to compare new generations to the older ones. For me, it's all about fun. As long as the games are fun, I'll keep buyin'. And new Pokemon are always cool to me. More Pokemon means more teams and combinations to create! Overall, I keep playing Pokemon because I enjoy the games.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droomph View Post
The emphasis being on the word "real". Though I had played Pokémon beforehand and had enjoyed it immensely, playing Ruby was when I was totally into Pokémon for the first time. It made my life a lot brighter. It was my first real introduction into the magic of Pokémon.
Ah, but I immensely enjoyed Yellow, and that game made my life a lot brighter when I was 7, because I was hardcore into Pokemon then, since I was also obsessed with the anime. But then GSC came along and the experience was even more amazing. So GSC are, to me, my second "real" games.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Basically, my preferrenced order is something along the lines of

III>IV>V>I>II (Favourite - Least)

That may be the complete opposite for many people as I've heard a lot of people loving GSC and really disliking RSE but for me, as the games progressed from Ruby & Sapphire I just became more fond of them. Maybe that deluded my interest in the earlier generations but for some reason I prefer the more modern.
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