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  #26    
Old September 22nd, 2012, 02:24 PM
TRIFORCE89's Avatar
TRIFORCE89
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Originally Posted by PhantomX0990 View Post
That'd be the Pledge of Allegiance.

Which is, if you don't know it...

We pledge allegiance, to the flag
Of the United States of America
And to the republic, for which it stands
One nation under God, indivisable
With liberty and justice for all.

It's a few things that make people having objections to saying it. Here.

By the way, the 'under God' line wasn't added until 1954.
Yes, I know when it was added. The Pledge itself isn't that old either.

But... it does say "In God we Trust" on your money (at around roughly the same time the Pledge was changed too). Are people suddenly opposed to use physical currency? Not having the Pledge just strikes me as odd. Kind of like if you didn't have the national anthem. It seems sort of important.

Personally, wouldn't have a problem with them changing either of them though. The "under God" part seems really out of place. And I prefer "E pluribus unum" over "In God we Trust". But, that's how they are right now and I think they should be presented as such.
  #27    
Old September 22nd, 2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
Yes, I know when it was added. The Pledge itself isn't that old either.

But... it does say "In God we Trust" on your money (at around roughly the same time the Pledge was changed too). Are people suddenly opposed to use physical currency? Not having the Pledge just strikes me as odd. Kind of like if you didn't have the national anthem. It seems sort of important.

It was only added during WWII.
  #28    
Old September 22nd, 2012, 08:54 PM
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It was only added during WWII.
I know. That's why I said it isn't that old o.o
  #29    
Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:31 PM
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I'm not really sure (because Government class was two years ago now) but I'm pretty sure the thing about the pledge wasn't religious- it was more that people shouldn't have to swear allegiance to the USA if they don't want to. Or salute the flag or something.

Oh here it is actually- West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.
Basically what that says is public schools may not require students to salute the flag, stand for or recite the Pledge of Allegiance. All of the schools I've been to have done the Pledge, though- every day in elementary and middle school (where everybody recited it due to not feeling like they had a choice) and every Tuesday in high school (where nobody recited it because they couldn't be bothered).

But yeah on the main topic- it's completely legal to worship however you chose in public schools. If you have to leave class once in a while to pray, fine. Teachers can't stop you and can't punish you. If you want to pray before a test, fine. Just don't force others to. If you want to read a religious text in class, fine. Just don't do it while you've got work to be doing. I spent many years in multicultural public schools and observed all manner of religious practices being done quietly. No staff member in a public school is legally obliged or allowed to stop you as long as you are not imposing your beliefs on others.
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Last edited by Anna; September 24th, 2012 at 07:11 AM. Reason: consistency of grammar is a necessity
  #30    
Old September 23rd, 2012, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
To those of you who live in America or don't live in America I want to get your opinions on this topic. In America it is now against Federal Law to pray in school. Football Teams for school used to be able to say a prayer before the game but now if they do it they're violating federal rules. Do you guy's think this is corrupt or do you agree with it? I honestly think it's a bunch of BS because America is suppose to be a free country but you can't pray in school? It's illegal to take a bible to school here in America, it's illegal to read a bible at school her in America, and most schools no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance no more because of this. So what do you guy's think? Agree or Disagree? In America your suppose to have the freedom or religion not freedom against religion.
I don't live in America, but I am pretty sure that none of this is true. There is no laws against bibles or praying.
  #31    
Old October 8th, 2012, 10:00 AM
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i'm happy i go to catholic school yes its corrupt but isn't our government always the atheist argument doesn't really apply because i remember in middle school i was nervous for a test so i do what every person who needs a miracle does pray... and got two detentions atheist are a small minor compared to religious people most of them are good then their are ... others

i think its ridiculous seperation of state and church why should the state say we can't pray what the big deal of letting students pray foras long we are not forcing them to pray if i was atheist id be happy while students pray i do homework
  #32    
Old October 8th, 2012, 10:06 AM
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The freedom of religion means not to have no religion. It means an ignorance yet tolerance to other's religions.

Unless your 'praying' means something like screaming at the top of your lungs, I don't have a problem with it.
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  #33    
Old October 8th, 2012, 08:13 PM
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It's this cool thing called the Constitution. Give it a read sometime.
  #34    
Old October 8th, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Freedom of religion is necessary. So is separation of church and state, but if you don't specify any religion, why is praying a big deal? If you want to pray, then pray. If you don't want to, then don't. That's all there is to it.
  #35    
Old October 9th, 2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rodriguezjames55 View Post
the atheist argument doesn't really apply because i remember in middle school i was nervous for a test so i do what every person who needs a miracle does pray... and got two detentions
Did you really get detentions for praying? Perhaps it was for talking in class or something else that would have been disruptive, but I have a hard time believing it was strictly because you were praying.

Quote:
i think its ridiculous seperation of state and church why should the state say we can't pray what the big deal of letting students pray foras long we are not forcing them to pray if i was atheist id be happy while students pray i do homework
But states don't say you can't pray. Pray all you like. They only say you can't use school property, etc. to promote a religion like what would happen if a school let students lead a prayer rally in the gymnasium during school or something like that.

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  #36    
Old October 9th, 2012, 03:44 PM
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I don't know how difficult this is to answer, guys. I live in Canada and I know that:

Religious activity is ONLY illegal within the schooling system when the teachers or board set a specific religious activity into a public setting (Example, the teacher having the students read the bible during an english, social studies, art class, or having everyone "Draw Down the Moon" before class begins)

Religious activity is okay, when it is not being forced upon/is optional, and does not disrupt the learning environment. A student may pray quietly before a test, but they may not say their prayer aloud (Thus disrupting others).

At my Catholic School, you are able to fill in a form every year where you have the option to state your religious path. If it is not Catholic, they allow you to not participate in Catholic Mass every month, and instead go to the Commons for a similiar, more religion-to-religion mass (Paganism, Buddhism, ect). This is a public school, and with this setup, they are abidding by the laws of Canada.
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  #37    
Old October 9th, 2012, 04:10 PM
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A public Catholic school? That's a thing? Here in the US all public schools are secular and some private schools are religious. o_o;

Rogriquez, your situation had nothing to do with the law and what's illegal. It's not illegal to carry a gun with a permit, but it's against school rules to have a gun there. Bring it up with your school, don't blame the government for an unfair punishment.

Also you need to read up on your religion if you think praying for a good grade on a test works.
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  #38    
Old October 9th, 2012, 04:38 PM
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Yes. In Canada, that is a thing. We have public religious schools, unlike US.

Second, I would watch yourself on your final statement. Under my beliefs, a "Spellwork" or magick, can help inhance your memory and performance within the test. Something like Christian Prayer may also work, as they will be asking that their memory is vivid and they can get the test done to their proper abilities. Obviously, this wouldn't work if they didn't have a memory (they didn't study) of the subject at hand.
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"The lies of your world will be exposed. My rebellion will rein over your realm, and no longer will this time be plagued by war." - ???
  #39    
Old October 9th, 2012, 04:50 PM
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He is Catholic. He already stated that. I didn't ask him to investigate your religion, I asked him to investigate his religion. From what I was taught as a 4 year Catholic school student as well as a year in RCIA and currently in a Catholic college, in Catholicism, prayers such as these (praying for a grade, praying for a parking spot, etc.) are trivial and are borderline on using God's name in vain. If you want a good grade, work hard.
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  #40    
Old October 9th, 2012, 08:55 PM
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A public Catholic school? That's a thing? Here in the US all public schools are secular and some private schools are religious. o_o;
Yup. We have a public school system and a publicly-funded Catholic school system. They're known as separate schools.

Curriculum is the same except that in the Catholic schools you have mass associated with Christmas and Easter, there is a religion class (basically, you read Chicken Soup for the Soul-type material and write about how God loves you), your sacraments (Communion and Confirmation) is incorporated into the religion class at the appropriate grade and you accept them as a class.

Religion class in high school gets expanded to dedicated philosophy (I don't remember Catholicism being involved there at all) and world religion (you get to learn about other religions) classes.

We have the same science class as the actual public school. Big bang. Evolution. Whatever. All okay.

You also don't have to be Catholic to go to a Catholic school.

We're also facing some "controversial" issues like allowing Muslims to leave class to pray or use school facilities after school, or having "gay clubs".

Further, the Church does not really have a say in the education at the school.

Where this all stems from is Canada's French-English heritage. Some areas have public Catholic (appeases the French) schools and other areas have public Protestant (appeases the English) schools. Supposedly to accommodate whatever the minority faith between the two were in that area at the time. Catholic is the majority now nearly everywhere between the two and there are very few Protestant schools.
  #41    
Old October 9th, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
prayers such as these (praying for a grade, praying for a parking spot, etc.) are trivial and are borderline on using God's name in vain. If you want a good grade, work hard.
Pretty much this. Jesus doesn't care if you fail your Cellular Microbiology test. Believe me, I found this out Monday when I took mine.
  #42    
Old October 17th, 2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
To those of you who live in America or don't live in America I want to get your opinions on this topic. In America it is now against Federal Law to pray in school. Football Teams for school used to be able to say a prayer before the game but now if they do it they're violating federal rules. Do you guy's think this is corrupt or do you agree with it? I honestly think it's a bunch of BS because America is suppose to be a free country but you can't pray in school? It's illegal to take a bible to school here in America, it's illegal to read a bible at school her in America, and most schools no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance no more because of this. So what do you guy's think? Agree or Disagree? In America your suppose to have the freedom or religion not freedom against religion.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Yeah, I am going to add my two cents, having been a Christian prior to finding the Law of Thelema.

You see, I have heard this argument being on both sides of the fence and both times - it is a dishonest way of saying that just because you do not have the right to impose your religion on others in a way that can make them feel uncomfortable, that you are no longer allowed to pray in schools. Sorry, that just isn't true and I know this first hand because I was one of those Christian kids that wore a t-shirt saying something stupid like "Arrest me, I am praying in school" or something to that effect - while attending events and groups like Fellowship of Christian Athletes and See you at the Pole.

However, what I can agree with is not allowing the "team" to pray together prior to a game because it has the potential to alienate non-Christian students from an activity that is supposed to be secular. If you have a Muslim, Wiccan, Thelemite, Buddhist, etc. student on the team, they would feel uncomfortable with a Christian prayer. I am pretty sure the Christians wouldn't appreciate it if the Thelemite students wanted the team to perform Liber Resh vel Helios when the sun goes down or the Buddhists to meditate on the dharma before the game.

You have your right to practice your religion, you have the right to believe what you will. You do not have the right to push your religion on others and alienating others because of your religion.

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