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  #1    
Old July 1st, 2012, 06:33 PM
iPika's Avatar
iPika
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Hey guys! I was making a new hack with my friend so I was thinking, are Advanced Generation Games too hard for you or too easy? Should I make it harder? And sorry if I post in the wrong section.
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  #2    
Old July 2nd, 2012, 08:32 AM
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amcolash
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If anything they seem a bit too easy. In my upcoming hack I will be making, I am making the Pokemon have more balanced and fair stats rather than making it harder. This way, some which seem to have been skimped on can be as strong as I would imagine them to be.
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  #3    
Old July 3rd, 2012, 12:32 PM
EmblenPat
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In regards to the games, there's no such thing as hard or easy. Grind enough levels, and the games WILL be easy. I think the idea refers to level curve, and that itself is arbirtary. If you look at RBY, it's incredibly easy to beat the game with a team of Lv. 40 Pokémon... you just need to use TMs to get better moves. In BW, there are enough trainers to have you ebat the game with a team of Pokémon that are equal level to the final trainers. As a hacker, if you're always throwing out Pokémon that are higher level than the player's, the player's Pokémon will just level up faster. So as a hack, I think it'd be important to have boss opponents that have well-crafted teams, forcing you to think of how you'll set up your team, as opposed to being able to plow through a game with a team of underlevelled Pokémon that outdo the opponents because of more powerful moves.

So to answer the question, it depends on how you want the hack to be. If you look at GSC, the games are much more open-ended compared to the other games, with a lot of optional dungeons thrown at you after the 4th Gym. (Mt. Mortar, Burned Tower in GS, Whirl Islands a bit after, Dark Cave, additional sections of Union Cave and Slowpoke Well, etc...). All of those optional areas follow the exact same levels for wild Pokémon/Trainers but all yield different species as to keep things fresh. Of course, the later games had tons of optional areas too (save for the linear fest that is BW, with only 1.5 optional areas before the E4).

As for me, I like having to explore every area in the game in sequence, but in a way more akin to Sinnoh, where you revisit older areas to access new ones. A mudslide north of Oreburgh prevents you from accessing Mt. Coronet, but you can pass that obstacle after getting that bike, and then that idea is introduced again when you loop back to Hearthome to fight Fantina (in DP, anyways). The last 3 gyms are all on the edges of Sinnoh, just past familiar areas. tl;dr you've explored the majority of Sinnoh by the 5th Gym, but still with a few optional areas along the way with awesome rewards (such as Iron Island's reward of the Riolu Egg and a Dawn Stone I believe).

So, uh, sorry for that kinda in-depth analysis of region design and difficulty, but I feel it's necessary to factor that in when considering difficulty. I personally believe that the main series games all have about the same difficulty, with DP possibly being the most difficult due to the level spike before the E4. BW's introduction of reusable TMs allowed Game Freak allowed them to have more elaborate trainers with more varied Pokémon. In my playthrough, I had a team with a very balanced moveset without worrying about wasting a TM on a female, AND a perfectly levelled team because of the trainers' level curve. In RBY, I have an underlevelled team with moves covering their weaknesses, which allowed me to plow through all the mandatory trainers while being 15 levels below.

Lots of stuff to consider.
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  #4    
Old July 3rd, 2012, 06:55 PM
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amcolash
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I agree with that! My friend first played Pokemon about a year ago and he trained so hard that everything was simple. If you were to make a stronger and balanced type advantage to certain trainers it would be much better. Look at the Elite Four, this is honestly the only area in the game where I have to load a save more than once to win a battle. It is tough not only from the Pokemon themselves, but the variety of Pokemon and in a row too. So if you added some extra caves with many different types of trainers it would be like a "mini elite four". As the caves are now, they are much too simple and bring in one water Pokemon and you kick butt 85% of the time single-handedly. Add some grass, poison, even ghost into those caves and boom! Way more fun and challenging.

Edit: Just remembered, dragon earlier in the game would make things very hard! They are a great type and are extremely powerful even young. Add a new type of trainer "Dragon Trainer" and you've got much more potential to crank up the difficulty
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  #5    
Old July 4th, 2012, 07:17 AM
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Checklist: Harder and Complicated E4 teams
More places to explore
Balanced stats...
Gangster up the Pokemon and stats of trainers

Which ROM do you like as a base eg. Fire Red

Thanks guys... Anything else that you think would be great in a hack? Do you want more gen 4 and 5 Pokemon?
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Last edited by iPika; July 4th, 2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: silly ol' Your double post has been automatically merged.
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  #6    
Old July 8th, 2012, 03:51 AM
Ferox
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I think you have to assume that anyone playing a Pokemon hack has some experience with the mechanics of the game, we've all played the originals at some point. As such, anyone playing a hack should have a grasp of strategy and probably are looking for a challenge.

The trick is to make it more challenging without forcing the player to grind levels all the time, as that interrupts the flow.
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  #7    
Old July 8th, 2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPika View Post
Checklist: Harder and Complicated E4 teams
More places to explore
Balanced stats...
Gangster up the Pokemon and stats of trainers

Which ROM do you like as a base eg. Fire Red

Thanks guys... Anything else that you think would be great in a hack? Do you want more gen 4 and 5 Pokemon?
For me, I enjoy when the game poses a realistic challenge.
Take for example, Light Platinum. The game was fun in the beginning, as you couldn't just sweep everything in your path.

But the game soon became too easy for me after the second gym. My Electabuzz sweeped the Water-based third Gym, and later my other Pokemon sweeped the remaining gyms. So I'd say to keep the gym leaders' Pokemon level high.

I also suggest a difficulty spike around level 27-36 to prevent the game from becoming too easy, as there is when you expect most players to have fully evolved their Pokemon, meaning they will have more stats. This is even without their EV gain in mind.

Something else that irked me in Light Platinum was how the rivals and gym leaders in the second region would limit themselves to about 3 Pokemon, this in turn makes the battle a cakewalk.

If you want to see some difficult post-game content you should check Life of Guardian. The post-game there usually revolves around either fighting fakemon with insanely high stats or fighting several series of many trainers with extremely high-leveled Pokemon.
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  #8    
Old July 9th, 2012, 06:49 AM
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iPika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach7AC View Post
For me, I enjoy when the game poses a realistic challenge.
Take for example, Light Platinum. The game was fun in the beginning, as you couldn't just sweep everything in your path.

But the game soon became too easy for me after the second gym. My Electabuzz sweeped the Water-based third Gym, and later my other Pokemon sweeped the remaining gyms. So I'd say to keep the gym leaders' Pokemon level high.

I also suggest a difficulty spike around level 27-36 to prevent the game from becoming too easy, as there is when you expect most players to have fully evolved their Pokemon, meaning they will have more stats. This is even without their EV gain in mind.

Something else that irked me in Light Platinum was how the rivals and gym leaders in the second region would limit themselves to about 3 Pokemon, this in turn makes the battle a cakewalk.

If you want to see some difficult post-game content you should check Life of Guardian. The post-game there usually revolves around either fighting fakemon with insanely high stats or fighting several series of many trainers with extremely high-leveled Pokemon.
What do you mean by post-game? Yes, I have played Light Platinum and I can understand also what you mean. I have also played LoG but I don't understand what you mean...

Anyway, I wish not to copy any of the above hacks as I wish to get something 'new'. Thanks anyway...
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  #9    
Old July 9th, 2012, 08:46 AM
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Ach7AC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPika View Post
What do you mean by post-game? Yes, I have played Light Platinum and I can understand also what you mean. I have also played LoG but I don't understand what you mean...

Anyway, I wish not to copy any of the above hacks as I wish to get something 'new'. Thanks anyway...

By post-game, I meant things to do after the E4&Champion(Such as additional dungeons like the Cerulean Cave and the Sky Pillar, or facilities such as the Battle Tower/Frontier/Subway). And I didn't mean to copy anything. I was just giving examples on how a game can be made hard or easy. Since the leveling curve sorts of evens out on itself, you need different manners of controlling the difficulty. In LoG and many other hacks, the creator usually adds other elements other than levels in order to make the game difficult.

Elements include long series of battles, battles against overpowered fakemon, and limiting healing outside of Pokemon centers. The problem with solely relying on levels is that once the player's whole party reaches level 100, the game becomes a walk in the park, so new tricks must be pulled during the endgame phase. You should also play-test your hack often to see if there are any parts which are too easy. Try playing around with A-Trainer, and you'll find several ways of making the game difficult, such as customizing a gym leader's Pokemon moveset, or even giving them underleveled Pokemon(Such as Lance's Dragonite in GenI)
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  #10    
Old July 11th, 2012, 02:08 AM
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Pinta77
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I think the advance generation games are pretty balanced. As mentioned above, it all depends on how much you level up.

In a hack I'm making, I start the player off with a level 40 marshtomp, followed by a level 40 politoed given to you by an NPC. Then around the whole beginning of the game, the trainers have primarily ground and fire type pokemon between lv 25-45 ish. So I kind of tilted the odds in the favor of the player.

Why? Because no one likes to get stuck in the game just because they can't beat a trainer. Yes, it needs to be somewhat challenging, but I'd prefer a strong story line and a nice map over ridiculously tough trainers.
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  #11    
Old July 13th, 2012, 02:17 AM
sangajin
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In hack, the second gym uses dragons.
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  #12    
Old July 13th, 2012, 04:19 AM
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iPika
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I asked my friend if it world be fun if the gym leaders had their own custom Pokemon instead of like in types. He said it was a good idea. So what do you think?
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  #13    
Old August 4th, 2012, 08:48 PM
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Make it harder.
Everything got easy after we all beat Cynthia's over-leveled Garchomp.
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  #14    
Old August 10th, 2012, 08:22 PM
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RichterSnipes
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I think the 3rd generation games have a perfect difficulty considering the limitations of "story" play. Players might be able to get past the first couple of gyms without much thought, but they'll need to grasp the more crucial elements of the battling system to succeed throughout the rest of the game. In other words, they aren't pushover games. Of course almost the in-game will be easy if you grind a lot, but this comes at the fair cost of time. Competitive battling strategies can't apply anywhere except in places like the Battle Tower, so hoarding items can almost always ensure victory.

If anything, include optional events in your hack that provide a higher challenge for the player if he or she so chooses to participate in. This can typically only be done by bringing in trainers with level 100 Pokémon. Otherwise, players will find ways to make battles be more easily beatable, even if it requires grinding. The only truly effective methods of increasing difficulty for non-Battle-Tower-esque areas of Pokémon games are if the players themselves impose their own restrictions, such as the Nuzlocke Challenge.
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  #15    
Old August 10th, 2012, 08:53 PM
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I'd say in general, they're fine the way they are. But if you HAD to choose one, I'd say they were a little too easy... but that's the whole idea of your hack; make it the way you want it - if you want people to enjoy your game longer, then make it a little harder.

In terms of trainers in the Advanced Generation, the trainers usually start off harder, and the way leveling is scaled, they get a little bit easier throughout the game (that's the way I see it, anyhow).. with exceptions. Gym typing is usually fair, but adding some obscure types here and there give it that extra challenge. Also, the main Pokémon games usually don't have many, or any, puzzles, so adding those in are fun too.
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  #16    
Old August 11th, 2012, 05:10 PM
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Maybe you can lower the levels of the wild pokemon/or decrease the base exp given by pokemon so when the player tries to grind it will take longer and they will get bored and try to progress through the game, but then have the gym leaders/trainers high levelled to make the gap between the pokemons level high.
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  #17    
Old September 10th, 2012, 02:11 AM
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For me Harder as I like a challenge while choosing my team along the way
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Pokemon Fire Red Hack
-3rd Gen game
- more rival
- New Tiles
- New Trainer sprites
- New Map for Hoenn (replace Sevii islands)
Finished making the Hoenn & Kanto Gym leaders
Finished making the Hoenn & Kanto Elite four and Champions

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  #18    
Old September 10th, 2012, 12:30 PM
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For most hacks, I would say about making it either borderline or just slightly hard; if you make it easier, then the game isn't really gonna be that much of a challenge. Depending on the original game, if it is too difficult, then make it easier.
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  #19    
Old September 29th, 2012, 08:08 AM
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.parado✗
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I think, that it should be not too hard but also not too easy.
In the end, you decide for yourself
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  #20    
Old October 21st, 2012, 05:05 AM
Epsilon7
 
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I want the game to be hair-pullingly difficult, so that you need to think and plan, rather than grind and sweep.
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