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  #151    
Old September 26th, 2012, 04:33 PM
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Well then what's the point of this thread if we know the answer?
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  #152    
Old September 27th, 2012, 12:15 AM
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To share theories on the subject, contemplate them, and point out any obvious holes or contradictions, to narrow down the possibilities to a handful as close to the truth as the available info allows us to go.

For me its also an occasion to bring up the idea that Arceus' creation story might be merely a myth in the games too, to see if I'm the only one looking at this as a serious possibility.

After that, I intend to wait 5 years until GF releases a game with an Arceus replacement in another region, so I can come back here and say "I told ya so" xDDd /jk
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  #153    
Old September 27th, 2012, 06:31 AM
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@ShinyUmbreon189 You shouldn't feel like you're being attacked just because someone disagrees with you. And for the record, I've been playing the games since Mew was still a secret character. (I was one of the many who tried to move that truck because Mew was supposedly under it, only to be disappointed...) But I don't remember the Mewtwo movie stating Mew was the ancestor Pokemon. They said it was the rarest and most powerful (at the time) but not the ancestor, at least in the dub. I have no idea how the Japanese version described it. We know that sometimes the dubbed versions change things, such as Mew's "real strength comes from the heart" speech was originally it telling Mewtwo that all clones should be destroyed.

XanderO actually mentioned something interesting: there are several man-made Pokemon too. And the possibility that the Regis of Hoenn could have been created by Regigigas (though, I think it said somewhat that humans actually may have made them)

And something else XanderO pointed out, Mew has never been said to have created anything. It could very well be the ancestor of modern Pokemon, but it can't CREATE anything. (I think the word "create" got thrown around too much.)

Then it comes down to whether or not Mew could have "devolved" into all modern Pokemon or not. But what about the existence of the fossil Pokemon and creatures like Relicanth? Is it logical to believe Pokemon not only go through their own Pokemon evolution but Darwin's evolution as well? To me, I don't believe so. If you get a Charmander and raise it, it will eventually become a Charizard. But if you breed your Charizard with another Charizard or other dragon or Ditto, the offspring will be a Charmander, meaning that the line resets itself to the original species every time. Of course, that's just how I see it.

Also, concerning Mew, one of the moves it has been known for using the most is Transform. (The one in the Lucario movie is seen using it several times) What purpose could the ancestor have for a temporary transformation if it would eventually become these creatures permanently? And assuming it existed before Ditto or any other modern Pokemon, why would it need the transformation ability? (That would seem to suggest that Transform is Mew's ability originally but was passed on to Ditto.) Any ideas on this?
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  #154    
Old September 27th, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
Also, concerning Mew, one of the moves it has been known for using the most is Transform. (The one in the Lucario movie is seen using it several times) What purpose could the ancestor have for a temporary transformation if it would eventually become these creatures permanently? And assuming it existed before Ditto or any other modern Pokemon, why would it need the transformation ability? (That would seem to suggest that Transform is Mew's ability originally but was passed on to Ditto.) Any ideas on this?
There is the theory that Ditto were created in experiments in the Pokemon mansion, when they were trying to create a superior Mew.
Some of the most prominent locations it appears in include the Mansion basement and the Cerulean cave, where Mewtwo hid.
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  #155    
Old September 27th, 2012, 12:22 PM
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@ShinyUmbreon189 You shouldn't feel like you're being attacked just because someone disagrees with you.
I never said I was getting attacked I said you guy's bashed my theory. Actually to completely honest you were the only one to bash it at least MiTjA and XanderO backed their theory up to why they disagree with mine. You posted saying my theory was wrong kinda way. Your actually the one I was directing that post to, not everyone else. I don't mind that you disagree with me but I wouldn't of said anything if you would of backed it up. Now let's just forget this ever happened cos I know your gonna quote back denying when you know it's true. So let's just move on.

Mew is still the ancestor of all Pokemon, there were only 151 Pokemon discovered in the 1st gen then as more games came out they discovered more and more. But I realized something, since there is Pokemon like Kabuto, Aerodatyl, Omanyte, etc they could of lived before Arceus and Mew. If you ask me they're kind of like dinosaurs, so how do we know if they didn't live before them? Scientist have found fossils and believed them to be thousand's of years old.

Arceus didn't for say created the world it just shaped it. There's a big difference between creating and shaping something. So we still don't know who created the universe in Pokemon. Something had to created Arceus after it created the world for Arceus to shape the world. After Arceus was created it created Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina to create dimensions.

There's also another theory that could of happened with Mew. How do we not know mew was floating around the universe waiting. Mew could of been created with the creator of the world. These are things that we don't know yet. Hell they both could of been created at the same exact time. Actually in the world of Pokemon what you call the "Big Bang Theory" could of happened and it created Arceus and Mew, we don't know. I'm not saying that it happened but it's definitely a possibility. But if Arceus doesn't need a universe to live then why should Mew?

Now lot's of Pokemon could for say be man made. I mean look at Porygon; it's said to have been hand made by humans. What about Mewtwo? He was created by Team Rocket so they can created the worlds strongest Pokemon to go on with they're plans. Other Pokemon like Onix, could of been created, it's very unlikely because rocks don't have a brain or move but in the world of Pokemon scientist can do different things. Scientist aren't like our scientist where they try to make the best electronical device they try to discover Pokemon and find out about the fossils and the legendary's, that's what I think.
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  #156    
Old September 27th, 2012, 01:21 PM
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This has been said before, but I think it is possible. I like to think of it like Arceus is God in Pokemon world and he created 2 Mews(Adam and Eve). They had baby Mews which all eventually transformed into all the different species of Pokemon eventually producing a species of each Pokemon.
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  #157    
Old September 28th, 2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MiTjA View Post
There is the theory that Ditto were created in experiments in the Pokemon mansion, when they were trying to create a superior Mew.
Some of the most prominent locations it appears in include the Mansion basement and the Cerulean cave, where Mewtwo hid.
Eh...I'm not sure. I think that's just a coincidence. The original story of Mewtwo in RBY was that the scientists captured a Mew and impregnated it with Mewtwo, to which it gave birth to. This was changed I think in remakes since Eggs were now present, but since Mewtwo was born in that universe and not "created", I question how there could be endless Ditto all over the Earth. (Recently in Black, I've been catching as many Ditto as I can in the Giant Chasm to get all the Natures. Mewtwo isn't related to the Giant Chasm.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
Mew is still the ancestor of all Pokemon, there were only 151 Pokemon discovered in the 1st gen then as more games came out they discovered more and more.
Remember though, the only reason new Pokemon are "discovered" are because Game Freak makes more games. Though Sinnoh was only introduced in Gen 4, it has always existed in that universe. And there have been a few in-game references to the existence of Pokemon beyond the games. (In Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, you encounter Bonsly and Munchlax before Gen 4 was released.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
But I realized something, since there is Pokemon like Kabuto, Aerodatyl, Omanyte, etc they could of lived before Arceus and Mew. If you ask me they're kind of like dinosaurs, so how do we know if they didn't live before them? Scientist have found fossils and believed them to be thousand's of years old.
Mew is said to have devolved into every common Pokemon, while Arceus is supposed to have been the first living creature to ever exist. For Mew, it is assumed to have became the fossils too, only they died out. For Arceus, they repeatedly hinted at it being the first Pokemon. I think the fossils were just unlucky Pokemon that died out for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
Arceus didn't for say created the world it just shaped it. There's a big difference between creating and shaping something. So we still don't know who created the universe in Pokemon.

Something had to created Arceus after it created the world for Arceus to shape the world. After Arceus was created it created Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina to create dimensions.
Arceus's legend says it was born from an Egg that emerged out of a void of nothing but chaos. Then it is said to have created the world (possibly the universe). However, whether or not it created the world specifically to do it, or if something happened to Arceus after its birth that resulted in it sort of accidently creating the universe though is unknown. I feel that Arceus doesn't necessarily have to have played God and the universe's creation doesn't have to have been on purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
There's also another theory that could of happened with Mew. How do we not know mew was floating around the universe waiting. Mew could of been created with the creator of the world.
These are things that we don't know yet. Hell they both could of been created at the same exact time. Actually in the world of Pokemon what you call the "Big Bang Theory" could of happened and it created Arceus and Mew, we don't know. I'm not saying that it happened but it's definitely a possibility. But if Arceus doesn't need a universe to live then why should Mew?
The main problem I have with Mew being the first Pokemon is that there isn't anything in-game to suggest it. Arceus has several in-game references to its origin and an Event to show its creation powers. Mew has always just been there. The only in-game reference made to Mew at all is in the documents about Mewtwo. But even those documents can be pretty much simplified to "We found a Mew and cloned it, then the clone got mad and flew away."

And I'm not sure about suggesting there is a deity beyond Pokemon in that universe. We already have Pokemon that can control time, warp space, and represents antimatter. And since Arceus created those 3 Pokemon, I don't think creation of the universe is out of the question for a Pokemon.

Quote:
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Now lot's of Pokemon could for say be man made. I mean look at Porygon; it's said to have been hand made by humans. What about Mewtwo? He was created by Team Rocket so they can created the worlds strongest Pokemon to go on with they're plans.
Yes, there are plenty of man-made Pokemon. Porygon and its evolutions are always the first to come to mind. Then we have Castform for weather. And some poison Pokemon can be linked to human pollution, like Grimer and Trubbish. I'm sure there are others (is the Klink line said to be man-made?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
Other Pokemon like Onix, could of been created, it's very unlikely because rocks don't have a brain or move but in the world of Pokemon scientist can do different things. Scientist aren't like our scientist where they try to make the best electronical device they try to discover Pokemon and find out about the fossils and the legendary's, that's what I think.
But just because a Pokemon is Rock-type doesn't mean it is man-made. Just plain rocks may not have brains, but that doesn't mean a Rock Pokemon doesn't. I wouldn't consider a Pokemon to be man-made unless it is specifically said to be.
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  #158    
Old September 29th, 2012, 12:39 PM
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The only Artificial Pokemon (Ones to have been created by humans or created because of human development) are all listed in this link here

They actually don't list any Rock Types and very few steel types. Everything that isn't listed on there are natural born Pokemon.
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  #159    
Old September 29th, 2012, 04:36 PM
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I never really try to explain these kind of things. Pokemon is full of contradictions everywhere. Watching the anime I realize many differences in the facts provided in between seasons. However, from what I understand, Mew was the ancestor of all Pokemon, not the creator. Yes, there's a difference. The story is that Mew used to populate Earth in ancient days, then they started to die off (And there's a theory that they mutated into different Pokemon, which is why they can learn all other moves), leaving room for other Pokemon.

So, technically, Arceus created Mew and a few other species (Because it was indicated that Mew formed the majority of Pokemon back then, not all of them), then Mew differentiated into other Pokemon. Arceus is the creator, and Mew is the ancestor. :)
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  #160    
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
Eh...I'm not sure. I think that's just a coincidence. The original story of Mewtwo in RBY was that the scientists captured a Mew and impregnated it with Mewtwo, to which it gave birth to. This was changed I think in remakes since Eggs were now present, but since Mewtwo was born in that universe and not "created", I question how there could be endless Ditto all over the Earth. (Recently in Black, I've been catching as many Ditto as I can in the Giant Chasm to get all the Natures. Mewtwo isn't related to the Giant Chasm.)



Remember though, the only reason new Pokemon are "discovered" are because Game Freak makes more games. Though Sinnoh was only introduced in Gen 4, it has always existed in that universe. And there have been a few in-game references to the existence of Pokemon beyond the games. (In Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, you encounter Bonsly and Munchlax before Gen 4 was released.)



Mew is said to have devolved into every common Pokemon, while Arceus is supposed to have been the first living creature to ever exist. For Mew, it is assumed to have became the fossils too, only they died out. For Arceus, they repeatedly hinted at it being the first Pokemon. I think the fossils were just unlucky Pokemon that died out for some reason.



Arceus's legend says it was born from an Egg that emerged out of a void of nothing but chaos. Then it is said to have created the world (possibly the universe). However, whether or not it created the world specifically to do it, or if something happened to Arceus after its birth that resulted in it sort of accidently creating the universe though is unknown. I feel that Arceus doesn't necessarily have to have played God and the universe's creation doesn't have to have been on purpose.



The main problem I have with Mew being the first Pokemon is that there isn't anything in-game to suggest it. Arceus has several in-game references to its origin and an Event to show its creation powers. Mew has always just been there. The only in-game reference made to Mew at all is in the documents about Mewtwo. But even those documents can be pretty much simplified to "We found a Mew and cloned it, then the clone got mad and flew away."

And I'm not sure about suggesting there is a deity beyond Pokemon in that universe. We already have Pokemon that can control time, warp space, and represents antimatter. And since Arceus created those 3 Pokemon, I don't think creation of the universe is out of the question for a Pokemon.



Yes, there are plenty of man-made Pokemon. Porygon and its evolutions are always the first to come to mind. Then we have Castform for weather. And some poison Pokemon can be linked to human pollution, like Grimer and Trubbish. I'm sure there are others (is the Klink line said to be man-made?).



But just because a Pokemon is Rock-type doesn't mean it is man-made. Just plain rocks may not have brains, but that doesn't mean a Rock Pokemon doesn't. I wouldn't consider a Pokemon to be man-made unless it is specifically said to be.
Just cos GameFreak mentions events about Arceus being the first Pokemon doesn't mean it's true. GameFreaks not just gonna go out and say, "Yea Arceus is the first ever Pokemon so no more theories." GameFreak purposely does these things in the games cos it adds more excitement to them. They want us to make theories on which Pokemon could of came first without giving us the answers. The scrip in the games are there just to get you into it more. I got a feeling that GameFreaks gonna release another Pokemon in the future that ties with Arceus and Mew both. I still believe the world of Pokemon happened from the big bang theory and both Mew and Arceus were created as a result. The egg Arceus supposebly came from might of been a myth, we can't prove it just cos GameFreak mentioned it. It's all part of they're plane to trick us, that's what I think.

When Arceus was created it finished creating the world after the big bang theory (I believe it created the universe in Pokemon) by adding regions, water, and land. Then it created Kyogre to spread the sea and Groudon to spread the land so Mew can create the Pokemon that goes on the land and in sea. You also mentioned something about Pokemon controlling time and warping space. Well why do you think Arceus created Palkia, Dialgia, and Giritina? I believe that Arceus is the creator of most legendaries but not all. There are thousands of theories on which could of happened and there are no flaws in mine nor yours. I don't think there's any flaws in Pokemon other than saying Caterpie existed first or something.
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  #161    
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
Just cos GameFreak mentions events about Arceus being the first Pokemon doesn't mean it's true. GameFreaks not just gonna go out and say, "Yea Arceus is the first ever Pokemon so no more theories." GameFreak purposely does these things in the games cos it adds more excitement to them. They want us to make theories on which Pokemon could of came first without giving us the answers. The scrip in the games are there just to get you into it more. I got a feeling that GameFreaks gonna release another Pokemon in the future that ties with Arceus and Mew both. I still believe the world of Pokemon happened from the big bang theory and both Mew and Arceus were created as a result. The egg Arceus supposebly came from might of been a myth, we can't prove it just cos GameFreak mentioned it. It's all part of they're plane to trick us, that's what I think.
Uhm, Pokemon is fictional! (I know you know that xD, I'm just getting to a point). Seeing as how the games always come out before the show (Or traditionally at least), Game Freak shapes the Pokemon world as it wants to, it's creating it as it goes. What they say happened happened, they can't create a fictional world that is all a lie to the fans, cause if it is, there is no truth cause there is nothing to compare it to (i.e. there is no real Pokemon world where what Game Freak says can turn out to be false)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
You also mentioned something about Pokemon controlling time and warping space. Well why do you think Arceus created Palkia, Dialgia, and Giritina? I believe that Arceus is the creator of most legendaries but not all. There are thousands of theories on which could of happened and there are no flaws in mine nor yours. I don't think there's any flaws in Pokemon other than saying Caterpie existed first or something.
The official Pokemon story also goes to say that Arceus created Dialga, Giratina, and Palkia. And because of Giratina's destructive nature, it was locked in the Distortion/Reverse World. Again, Game Freak created this concept, it can't be a lie, per se.
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  #162    
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
Eh...I'm not sure. I think that's just a coincidence. The original story of Mewtwo in RBY was that the scientists captured a Mew and impregnated it with Mewtwo, to which it gave birth to. This was changed I think in remakes since Eggs were now present, but since Mewtwo was born in that universe and not "created", I question how there could be endless Ditto all over the Earth. (Recently in Black, I've been catching as many Ditto as I can in the Giant Chasm to get all the Natures. Mewtwo isn't related to the Giant Chasm.)



Remember though, the only reason new Pokemon are "discovered" are because Game Freak makes more games. Though Sinnoh was only introduced in Gen 4, it has always existed in that universe. And there have been a few in-game references to the existence of Pokemon beyond the games. (In Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, you encounter Bonsly and Munchlax before Gen 4 was released.)



Mew is said to have devolved into every common Pokemon, while Arceus is supposed to have been the first living creature to ever exist. For Mew, it is assumed to have became the fossils too, only they died out. For Arceus, they repeatedly hinted at it being the first Pokemon. I think the fossils were just unlucky Pokemon that died out for some reason.



Arceus's legend says it was born from an Egg that emerged out of a void of nothing but chaos. Then it is said to have created the world (possibly the universe). However, whether or not it created the world specifically to do it, or if something happened to Arceus after its birth that resulted in it sort of accidently creating the universe though is unknown. I feel that Arceus doesn't necessarily have to have played God and the universe's creation doesn't have to have been on purpose.



The main problem I have with Mew being the first Pokemon is that there isn't anything in-game to suggest it. Arceus has several in-game references to its origin and an Event to show its creation powers. Mew has always just been there. The only in-game reference made to Mew at all is in the documents about Mewtwo. But even those documents can be pretty much simplified to "We found a Mew and cloned it, then the clone got mad and flew away."

And I'm not sure about suggesting there is a deity beyond Pokemon in that universe. We already have Pokemon that can control time, warp space, and represents antimatter. And since Arceus created those 3 Pokemon, I don't think creation of the universe is out of the question for a Pokemon.



Yes, there are plenty of man-made Pokemon. Porygon and its evolutions are always the first to come to mind. Then we have Castform for weather. And some poison Pokemon can be linked to human pollution, like Grimer and Trubbish. I'm sure there are others (is the Klink line said to be man-made?).



But just because a Pokemon is Rock-type doesn't mean it is man-made. Just plain rocks may not have brains, but that doesn't mean a Rock Pokemon doesn't. I wouldn't consider a Pokemon to be man-made unless it is specifically said to be.
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Originally Posted by PEDRO12 View Post
Uhm, Pokemon is fictional! (I know you know that xD, I'm just getting to a point). Seeing as how the games always come out before the show (Or traditionally at least), Game Freak shapes the Pokemon world as it wants to, it's creating it as it goes. What they say happened happened, they can't create a fictional world that is all a lie to the fans, cause if it is, there is no truth cause there is nothing to compare it to (i.e. there is no real Pokemon world where what Game Freak says can turn out to be false)


The official Pokemon story also goes to say that Arceus created Dialga, Giratina, and Palkia. And because of Giratina's destructive nature, it was locked in the Distortion/Reverse World. Again, Game Freak created this concept, it can't be a lie, per se.
What does Giratina gotta do with this theory?

I never said GameFreak is lying but they might not be giving out the whole truth. I believe the truth's gonna come out when GameFreak quits making Pokemon game cos they will eventually but idk if they will anytime soon; and when that time comes in the last game it's gonna show how all the events happened from the beginning to the end, that's how I think they're gonna end it. While in the game they're gonna give out the REAL truth to it all. Right now where just using little bits and pieces GameFreak gave us and we don't even know if it's all 100% true. Like I said, GameFreak's not gonna say who or what the creator of the Pokemon world is.... at least not yet. Yes, they did mention Arceus a lot but how do you not know GameFreak is making the game about the scientist that discovered these and they're still trying to figure it out? Put that into consideration.
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  #163    
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:47 PM
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What does Giratina gotta do with this theory?

I never said GameFreak is lying but they might not be giving out the whole truth. I believe the truth's gonna come out when GameFreak quits making Pokemon game cos they will eventually but idk if they will anytime soon; and when that time comes in the last game it's gonna show how all the events happened from the beginning to the end, that's how I think they're gonna end it. While in the game they're gonna give out the REAL truth to it all. Right now where just using little bits and pieces GameFreak gave us and we don't even know if it's all 100% true. Like I said, GameFreak's not gonna say who or what the creator of the Pokemon world is.... at least not yet. Yes, they did mention Arceus a lot but how do you not know GameFreak is making the game about the scientist that discovered these and they're still trying to figure it out? Put that into consideration.
I doubt they'd contradict themselves further. They haven't given bits and pieces of information, they've made it very clear that Arceus created the Pokemon world.

Also, the subject of this thread is considering that Ancestor and Creator are the same thing, while that is far from true. My great great grandfather is one of my ancestors, he didn't create the world though O.o

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What does Giratina gotta do with this theory?
Giratina is the master of anti-matter. Everything scientifically has an opposite, for matter there is anti-matter, for good there is evil... etc.

Therefor, Arceus having created Giratina, which has also been made very clear, proves it created matter, and thus the world (The world is a pile of matter and anti-matter, along with areas of absence of matter)...
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  #164    
Old September 29th, 2012, 05:49 PM
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It has been put into consideration, but legends and myths from the games clearly state that Arceus was the first thing in the universe. Its all Myth and Legend, which is the same info that Mew has. Mew's myth and legend are less extravagant.

Gamefreak who created Pokemon said that so its a fact based on offical saying. By saying that they don't know what they are talking about you've discredited your own support so now your theory is simply, its this way cause I say its this way which makes it an opinion.

Either way, there is information supported by both the games and the Anime that say Arceus was the only thing in existence before any other Pokemon did. They give out more info as the games progress, but right now we have all the information we need. You can't really argue that Arceus wasn't first when both his in game Pokedex info and legends surrounding him, as well as the Anime both say the same thing. In game they even allow Arceus to create one of the three "Creation" Trio members.

In game events for mew don't have any support for it being first. Most just highlight how rare it is and/or its relation to Mewtwo.

If Gamefreak says it, then its a fact because its their world. They may contradict some small details, but they usually correct this later on. Still its a fact presented by Gamefreak Arceus came before Mew.


Quote:
Giratina is the master of anti-matter. Everything scientifically has an opposite, for matter there is anti-matter, for good there is evil... etc.

Therefor, Arceus having created Giratina, which has also been made very clear, proves it created matter, and thus the world (The world is a pile of matter and anti-matter, along with areas of absence of matter)...
To add to this. Arceus existed in nothingness. It "shaped" the world from absolutely nothing. Since it had nothing there to "shape" it had to create something to be able to shape the world into what it is now. So in order for it to take nothing and shape that into something it had to create materials. Using your example, you "create" a pot or urn by "shaping" clay into a desired form and shape. Once you've shaped it, you finished it by firing it in a kiln and decorate it. Once you've given it shape you changed clay into its new form and created a pot or an urn. You can play with words easily, but the meaning still exists. The world in the Pokemon Universe exists because of Arceus making it the creator and being the first Pokemon in existence gave it the name "Alpha" Pokemon.

Last edited by Khrysta; September 29th, 2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 05:54 PM
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It has been put into consideration, but legends and myths from the games clearly state that Arceus was the first thing in the universe. Its all Myth and Legend, which is the same info that Mew has. Mew's myth and legend are less extravagant.

Gamefreak who created Pokemon said that so its a fact based on offical saying. By saying that they don't know what they are talking about you've discredited your own support so now your theory is simply, its this way cause I say its this way which makes it an opinion.

Either way, there is information supported by both the games and the Anime that say Arceus was the only thing in existence before any other Pokemon did. They give out more info as the games progress, but right now we have all the information we need. You can't really argue that Arceus wasn't first when both his in game Pokedex info and legends surrounding him, as well as the Anime both say the same thing. In game they even allow Arceus to create one of the three "Creation" Trio members.

In game events for mew don't have any support for it being first. Most just highlight how rare it is and/or its relation to Mewtwo.

If Gamefreak says it, then its a fact because its their world. They may contradict some small details, but they usually correct this later on. Still its a fact presented by Gamefreak Arceus came before Mew.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Actually, come to think of it there was never any mention the Mew created the world. It was said to be the ancestor of Pokemon, not the creator of Pokemon. As I have tried to make very clear, ancestor and creator are two completely different concepts.

*Ancestor: A person from whom one is descended, especially if more remote than a grandparent; a forebear.
*Creator: One that creates.
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  #166    
Old September 29th, 2012, 06:02 PM
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I think GameFreak put it in Pokemon scientist view, kinda like first person or whatever. They could be making the game based on what "scientist" have gathered up from research meaning it might not be true. You see scientist all over in game and they're always talking about Pokemon discoveries. Put it this way. Imagine the world of Pokemon being real and we're all the scientist trying to figure the universe and Pokemon development out. We find a little piece of evidence stating Arceus might of done this and Arceus might of done that when we might not be 100% right. Instead we go and put it in our studies and say, "Yes, this is how this happened and this is how this was created" and so forth. But we could be wrong. That's the way I think GameFreak is making the games. GameFreak is not just basing the game on the main character "us the player" they are also basing it on what scientist have found from they're studies meaning they could be right or they could be wrong. Only GameFreak knows the outcome, why do you think were talking about this now? If it was a fact that Arceus was created first then we wouldn't even be here, that's how I came up with the scientist point of views in game.

This is kinda the same concept of saying God is the creator of the universe when we the people don't know 100% sure of.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Even though in-game scientist support the Arceus creation theory since Arceus isn't an omni-potent being that can neither be seen or heard. Arceus even shows us his power in front of Cynthia who by her own rite is a researcher of Myths and Legends dealing around Sinnoh Pokemon.

Gamefreak gave us our info and from a science stand point, push Arceus as well since there is no other in game theories or even events to contradict Arceus' place of power. Even his Classification given to him by the scientists and researchers, calling him the "Alpha Pokemon", help his role. He is the top of the Pokemon world, the number one Pokemon. Again word play.

Mew didn't create anything. There was no game events or movies to help push this fact. Mew's reason for research is cause it can learn every TM, a trait no other Pokemon has as well as it being one of few Pokemon to exist since older times and still have very few living members.
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  #168    
Old September 29th, 2012, 06:36 PM
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I think GameFreak put it in Pokemon scientist view, kinda like first person or whatever. They could be making the game based on what "scientist" have gathered up from research meaning it might not be true. You see scientist all over in game and they're always talking about Pokemon discoveries. Put it this way. Imagine the world of Pokemon being real and we're all the scientist trying to figure the universe and Pokemon development out. We find a little piece of evidence stating Arceus might of done this and Arceus might of done that when we might not be 100% right. Instead we go and put it in our studies and say, "Yes, this is how this happened and this is how this was created" and so forth. But we could be wrong. That's the way I think GameFreak is making the games. GameFreak is not just basing the game on the main character "us the player" they are also basing it on what scientist have found from they're studies meaning they could be right or they could be wrong. Only GameFreak knows the outcome, why do you think were talking about this now? If it was a fact that Arceus was created first then we wouldn't even be here, that's how I came up with the scientist point of views in game.

This is kinda the same concept of saying God is the creator of the universe when we the people don't know 100% sure of.
I see what you're getting at. However, the possibility that Game Freak is gonna use that as an excuse to dispute any assumptions they made previous to future generations is a long shot. I doubt they'd do such a thing, and thus we must turn towards the more probable explanation, and mind you, I say probable, not possible. Arceus created Mew, and other Pokemon spawned from Mew.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 07:01 PM
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i am a Mewologist Not a Arceist
Reasons
1)Can use transform and metronome and learn every TM basically enabling it to use very move
2) Mew was viewed Powerful enough to clone If Arceus was God I'm sure he would have been cloned
3) Mew has every pokemon's DNA and hard to get how many Acreus' events are thier
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Old September 29th, 2012, 07:06 PM
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Some of you are saying how Arceus can be all types, and Mew can learn any move, but really that means there is no difference between the two type and move wise, because since Mew can learn any move, it can be all types, and Arceus is all types therefore can learn any move. The only weakness would be Mew's natural type weakness, and Arceus' types.
Arceus fire weak against water.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 07:13 PM
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I see what you're getting at. However, the possibility that Game Freak is gonna use that as an excuse to dispute any assumptions they made previous to future generations is a long shot. I doubt they'd do such a thing, and thus we must turn towards the more probable explanation, and mind you, I say probable, not possible. Arceus created Mew, and other Pokemon spawned from Mew.
They're not gonna use it as an excuse. I can tell by the way it's scripted that it's in the scientist point of view. Just wait your gonna be coming back to this post when there's another Pokemon that GameFreak releases that say's it created Arceus not in those exact words but it's gonna say it's the creator beyond Arceus. Just like I had a feeling another Pokemon was gonna be discovered questioning Mew's creation. Then your gonna figure that I was right about the whole scientist point of view thing. Give it 3 years before they discover a Pokemon beyond Arceus's creation.

I say its very possible that GameFreak is using the scientist point of view. If they weren't then how would the game be getting this information, it's not like the Pokemon bible fell from the sky and they're using that. No, they're basing it off scientist discoveries. Every year the scientist find out more and more on they're theories and gain more knowledge to how it could of happened.

Just put it into the same concept as real life stuff. Evolution, big bang, God, etc. Real scientist are still trying to figure it out (probably never will).

And to whoever said something about it showing it's power to us. Did Arceus create a Pokemon in front of you? No. Did Arceus create another part of the world? No. Did Arceus ascend from the skies like it's the god of Pokemon and appear that it's the God? No. Plus that has nothing to do with GameFreak putting it into scientist point of view.
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  #172    
Old September 29th, 2012, 07:17 PM
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1) Smeargle can Sketch every move, that doesn't mean he's related to every Pokemon though. Smeargle is superior to mew in the "I can use any attack ever made" deparment, because unlike Mew who lacks the ability to learn the special Tutors, Smeargle can use every move in the Pokemon Arsenal except Chatter which Mew cannot use either.

2) Not viewed as powerful enough to clone. Mew was cloned because the rumor that it has every Pokemon's DNA (which neither the games nor the movies actually support. They stopped mentioning the DNA thing) Top that the fact that Arceus lives in another dimension that no one can get to while Mew exists in the same dimension as the trainers and has left traces of its own DNA somewhere made it easier to get to than Arceus.

3) Mew has had more events than Arceus. Mew's Event count is 14 Arceus's event count is 3. Both have fairly long lists but a majority of them listed on Arceus are two different events with extended times or locations. Such as Arceus' Movie Promo which is 1 type of Promo event, the Tour of Europe where they hit different malls and Arceus was a download and the PAL Global link distribution where Fans voted for his event. So Arceus is harder to get based on the Event giveaways.

Still in game proof, Arceus' Pokedex says it was born in nothing and used that nothing to shape the world we know. Mew doesn't say anything like that.
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  #173    
Old September 29th, 2012, 07:18 PM
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Didn't he descend from the skies in the movie/create a legendary in front of you in the Sinjoh Ruins?
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  #174    
Old September 29th, 2012, 07:21 PM
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Didn't he descend from the skies in the movie/create a legendary in front of you in the Sinjoh Ruins?
He opened a dimensional rift when he descended before.

When it showed him in the past he was out in space blowing up a meteor that was falling towards the planet. His plates were used to destroy it and were scattered about afterwards. When the human helped him recover, Arceus turned the desolate, lifeless wasteland into a paradise.

And yes, Arceus creates a Palkia, Giratina, or Dialga based on what circle you stand on in the Sinjoh Ruins.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 07:35 PM
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I think a lot of assumptions are tied up in the word "god" that are being argued here when they don't really need to be. For example, I've seen the argument that Arceus can't be god because it doesn't have 9999 in each stat, or because it can be captured. We seem to equate "god" with "omnipotent", although it's highly possible that the creator of the Pokemon world is limited in its power. Maybe it drew its power from the possibilities of what it could create, and now that the world is pretty much set in what it's going to do, it has much more limited power? Maybe over time it used its powers less and less, becoming less powerful? Maybe its powers are imprecise and can't change small, specific events, but only massive life-changing ones.
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