Competitive Team Questions (and Incomplete Team Help)

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by AdrianD

Two things. Can B2/W2 be transfered back to B/W? Two Ive been breeding cursed body, is that an acceptable ability to use?

Yes, B2/W2 can trade between the original B/W, but like before, you must have the first badge to do so.

Also, Cursed Body is viable on the first set I mentioned, but Water Absorb is preferred on the other two.

[dragonomega]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

Yes, B2/W2 can trade between the original B/W, but like before, you must have the first badge to do so.

Also, Cursed Body is viable on the first set I mentioned, but Water Absorb is preferred on the other two.

Actually Water Absorb is the preferred ability on all sets. Having a Water immunity is better than having a 30% chance to disable a move imo.

WA > CB.

[RyannLarge]

I'm putting a team together, very slowly, as I learn. I have an idea for a suicide lead, but, I need to know how to get its health as high as possible. Do I need IVs or EVs and is there an item that promotes health growth? I've done some research and I don't fully understand IVs and EVs and can't seem to find any items that promote health gain, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. Any and all help would be great.

I need at least three turns to utilize its move set. I was thinking 252 Health 252 attack and 6 in one of the defenses.

Move set on the edit..

Bronzong
EVs haven't been figured out yet but I want high hp and whatever is left split between its already decently high sp.d and def
nature undetermined/ I could go with calm/sassy/careful +sp.d with no damage to its defense
ability heatproof
item undetermined
stealth rock
undetermined/hypnosis/block
undetermined/dream eater/toxic
explosion

kind of a stall and suicide deal goin' on there

[SoulRed12]

First I'll say that Bronzong, being slow, may not necessarily be ideal for a suicide lead due to its susceptibility to taunt. With the moveset you list, if it's taunted, it'll be forced to switch out or explode.

Nevertheless, I'll give you a quick primer on IVs and EVs. IVs are "individual values," and they are like "innate ability." In other words, they're set when a pokemon is either met in the wild or hatched from an egg. They range from 0-31, and at level 100, a pokemon with a 0 in an IV will have 31 fewer points in that stat than will a pokemon with an IV of 31. So at level 100, it's a 1:1 relationship.

EVs are "effort values," and they're what you get through training. You get specific effort values, in addition to experience, by defeating specific pokemon; you can see what effort values certain pokemon give by looking them up on e.g. serebii. For example, defeating a Magikarp, in addition to a bit of experience, always gives the pokemon that defeated it one speed EV.

Essentially, every pokemon can have 510 EVs total, with a max of 255 in any given stat, and every 4 EVs you put in a stat adds an extra 1 point to the stat at level 100. So a pokemon at level 100 with 80 EVs in a stat will have 20 more points in that stat than would the same pokemon with 0 EVs in the stat. Notice that 252 is the most you should put in any stat despite the limit of 255, because those extra three EVs are one short of increasing the stat. So if you have, say, 252 EVs in one stat, and 252 in another, four of the remaining 6 available EVs can be put into another stat to increase it by 1 point. The remaining 2 would simply be garbage.

So, to answer your question, to get the most HP possible, you should breed until you get as high of an HP IV as possible (look up breeding guides for how to do this; you might also want to go for a desirable nature, though there isn't one that increases HP), and then battle the pokemon needed so that it gets 252 HP EVs (plus whatever others you want). You can also give it HPUp's, which add 10 HP EVs every time. (but you can only give it 10 total) Health Wings, which you can get on the bridges where you meet Ducklett (west Unova) and Swanna (east Unova) do the same thing but by 1 EV every time, though there's no limit to how many you can give. Then just level it up to level 100 and you're done.

Good luck!

[PlatinumDude]

To build on to what Soulred said, Bronzong is better off as a bulky supporter; it plays similarly to Ferrothorn, minus Leech Seed. Levitate is also the preferred ability because a Ground immunity is more important than losing a Fire weakness.

A suicide lead is a lead that gets hazards/support up as fast as possible before dying. Azelf, Aerodactyl, Froslass, Scolipede and Infernape are good roles for suicide leads:

Azelf:
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-U-turn
-Fire Blast/Psychic
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash

or
-Stealth Rock
-U-turn
-Explosion
-Zen Headbutt/Fire Blast/Ice Punch
Nature: Jolly/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Aerodactyl:
-Stealth Rock
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast/Taunt
Nature: Hasty/Jolly
EVs: 100 Atk/152 SAtk/252 Spe or 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure

Froslass:
-Spikes
-Taunt
-Destiny Bond/Pain Split
-Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body

or
-Spikes
-Taunt
-Destiny Bond
-Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body

Scolipede:
-Spikes
-Toxic Spikes
-Megahorn
-Earthquake/Rock Slide
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash/Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Swarm

Infernape (Gen IV only):
-Fake Out
-Stealth Rock
-Fire Blast
-Close Combat
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 64 Atk/252 SAtk/192 Spe
Item: Focus Sash

or
-Stealth Rock
-Endeavor
-Vacuum Wave
-Fire Blast/Overheat
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash

[AdrianD]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

What Ash493 said. In Gen V, it's possible to breed for a Pineco with Stealth Rock using a female Pineco and a male Dwebble/Crustle, but as I said, you're better off waiting for B2/W2, since Stealth Rock is available as a move tutor there. And it's not recommended to have all 3 entry hazards on one Pokemon because:
-Forretress becomes Taunt/setup bait
-You're forced to give up Rapid Spin or an attacking move (Gyro Ball for STAB, Earthquake to hit Steels and Volt Switch to escape Magnezone or give a teammate a free switch in, considering that Forretress is a very slow Pokemon) both of which are essential for Forretress.

Regarding Frillish/Jellicent, these sets are your best bets:
-Scald/Surf
-Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
-Recover
-Taunt
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP/216 Def/44 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Scald
-Shadow Ball/Ice Beam
-Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
-Recover
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/36 Def/220 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

or
-Water Spout
-Shadow Ball
-Surf/Scald/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam/Giga Drain
Nature: Modest
EVs: 172 HP/252 SAtk/84 Spe
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb

Would cursed body be good as well?

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by AdrianD

Would cursed body be good as well?

As I said before, while Cursed Body is viable on the first set, Water Absorb is preferred on the other two, for the reasons that Dragonomega pointed out.

I'll elaborate: The Specially Defensive set puts more emphasis on recovery than the physically defensive set, since the specially defensive Jellicent will take more damage from physical moves than before, and it might not have time to use Recover to heal itself. The Choice Specs set forgoes recovery completely in favor for hitting the opponent hard. Water Spout also gets weaker the lower Jellicent's HP gets, so switching in to a predicted Water move is very useful to help get Water Spout back to full power, or at least close to it.

[AdrianD]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

As I said before, while Cursed Body is viable on the first set, Water Absorb is preferred on the other two, for the reasons that Dragonomega pointed out.

I'll elaborate: The Specially Defensive set puts more emphasis on recovery than the physically defensive set, since the specially defensive Jellicent will take more damage from physical moves than before, and it might not have time to use Recover to heal itself. The Choice Specs set forgoes recovery completely in favor for hitting the opponent hard. Water Spout also gets weaker the lower Jellicent's HP gets, so switching in to a predicted Water move is very useful to help get Water Spout back to full power, or at least close to it.

Ok, Id been working on this Sassy Jellicent with 252 Hp; 150 Sp Def and the rest Sp atk. With Surf, Ice beam Toxic and shadow ball. Kind looks like a wreck typing it out lol

[Angelroid]

Butterfree @ Soothe Bell
Timid Nature
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe EVs
Compoundeyes Ability
-Sleep Powder
-Stun Spore
-U-turn
-Protect (Gonna use Bug Buzz later on)

This is in Heartgold, i don't know what to use for EV training. Carbos or Protein?

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Angelroid

Butterfree @ Soothe Bell
Timid Nature
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe EVs
Compoundeyes Ability
-Sleep Powder
-Stun Spore
-U-turn
-Protect (Gonna use Bug Buzz later on)

This is in Heartgold, i don't know what to use for EV training. Carbos or Protein?

A max Special Attack/max Speed or max HP/max Speed spread are the preferred spreads. So, Carbos

[Angelroid]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

A max Special Attack/max Speed or max HP/max Speed spread are the preferred spreads. So, Carbos

OK, thanks.

It's status are:
Attack: 27
Defense: 36
Sp.Atk: 57
Sp.Def: 55
Speed: 49

[Live in Color]

Looking for help with a Keldeo set, specifically the Resolute Form. I just got the event from EB games and would like to get a decent nature, IVs, etc. so I can build one into a competitive team eventually. I had two sets in mind, a bulkier somewhat similar to Suicune build, or a quick Sp. Atker.

What I had in mind:

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Bold
EVs: 252 Def, 252 HP, 4 Speed
-Calm Mind
-Secret Sword
-Scald/Surf
-Hidden Power [Ice/Fire/Electric]

Not too sure on the Hidden Power really, I want to utilize Keldeo's amazing special attack and it's decent defenses, but it has really no other decent special attacks.

Another build I had in mind would just be an all out Sp. Atker:

Keldeo @ Life Orb/(Not too sure on the item)
Modest/Timid
Evs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
-Secret Sword
-Scald/Surf
-Hidden Power [Ice/Fire/Electric]
-xxx

Not really sure on the last move either :/ really need some help with this, Keldeo's one of my favourite Pokemon now and I'd love to implement him into a team.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Live in Color

Looking for help with a Keldeo set, specifically the Resolute Form. I just got the event from EB games and would like to get a decent nature, IVs, etc. so I can build one into a competitive team eventually. I had two sets in mind, a bulkier somewhat similar to Suicune build, or a quick Sp. Atker.

What I had in mind:

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Bold
EVs: 252 Def, 252 HP, 4 Speed
-Calm Mind
-Secret Sword
-Scald/Surf
-Hidden Power [Ice/Fire/Electric]

Not too sure on the Hidden Power really, I want to utilize Keldeo's amazing special attack and it's decent defenses, but it has really no other decent special attacks.

Another build I had in mind would just be an all out Sp. Atker:

Keldeo @ Life Orb/(Not too sure on the item)
Modest/Timid
Evs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
-Secret Sword
-Scald/Surf
-Hidden Power [Ice/Fire/Electric]
-xxx

Not really sure on the last move either :/ really need some help with this, Keldeo's one of my favourite Pokemon now and I'd love to implement him into a team.

While a bulky spread seems tempting to use on Keldeo, it's not worth it because Keldeo really likes using its base 108 Speed to outspeed as much as it can. It also likes to hit opponents before being hit itself. Even if its defenses are uninvested, it can still take a neutral hit or two. Suicune still does bulky CM better because of its naturally higher defenses:
-Calm Mind
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Secret Sword
-Hidden Power (Ghost/Ice)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers

If you want to stick with the bulky spread, use HP Ghost or Ice to give Keldeo a chance to hit Jellicent and Ghost + Fighting is unresisted, while HP Ice gives Keldeo a way to hit Dragonite and Salamence. Both HP types also hit Lati@s supereffectively. Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor are hit hard enough already by Secret Sword and Hydro Pump/Surf respectively.

IMO, Choice Specs is the way to go with a 4-attacks Keldeo to make it hit harder off the bat. Hydro Pump is preferred as Keldeo's main STAB move. The last move can go to Icy Wind to hit Dragonite, Salamence and Lati@s on the switch, while slowing them down at the same time or Surf for a more reliable Water STAB. Use HP Ghost/Ice for the reasons I explained above, though you may not want to use HP Ice with Icy Wind.

[Live in Color]

Thanks a bunch for your help, I haven't played since 4th gen and I have no clue what the competitive style is like anymore. I think I'll try out the special sweeper instead of trying to go bulky. I'd probably go for HP Ghost and then go with Icy Wind. So:

Keldeo @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Timid
252 Sp. A, 252 Speed, 6 HP
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Secret Sword
-Hidden Power [Ghost]
-Icy Wind

[AdrianD]

hatched a Relaxed one. Keep it or should I look for an (atk+) Beldore?

[Forever]

Originally Posted by AdrianD

hatched a Relaxed one. Keep it or should I look for an (atk+) Beldore?

It has good attack and defense already, and with -speed it doesn't matter since your speed sucks anyway, so yeah, Relaxed is fine since it helps increase one of its best stats. While Adamant would definitely be a good thing, Relaxed can work too especially if you need a good defensive wall. Plus you can also have a Pokemon to set up TR to help Boldore sweep with its negative speed stat.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by AdrianD

hatched a Relaxed one. Keep it or should I look for an (atk+) Beldore?

I'm assuming you're talking about Boldore here (that's how you spell it).

Anyway, Boldore/Gigalith is better off with a +Attack nature, preferably Adamant. Its Defense is naturally high, so there's no need for an Impish one.

To make finding the Pokemon of the right nature easier, put a Pokemon with the Synchronize ability of the appropriate nature in front of the party. A Synchronize Pokemon in the lead slot increases the odds of you finding a wild Pokemon with the same nature as that Pokemon by 50%.

Edit: Accelgor'd, to an extent

[Angelroid]

I am thinking of using a Serperior movesets with Frenzy Plant & Glare.

Would that combo work?

[Wolflare]

Frenzy Plant generally isn't good in battles with real people (and not AI) because it gives the opponent one turn to do anything they'd like. It's really easy to take advantage of that free turn by using it to set up a sweep, switch in a very threatening Pokémon, etc. That could easily decide whether you win or lose right there. You essentially lose momentum, and that isn't a good thing. You're better off using a different Grass-type move, like Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, etc.

[Angelroid]

Originally Posted by Wolflare

Frenzy Plant generally isn't good in battles with real people (and not AI) because it gives the opponent one turn to do anything they'd like. It's really easy to take advantage of that free turn by using it to set up a sweep, switch in a very threatening Pokémon, etc. That could easily decide whether you win or lose right there. You essentially lose momentum, and that isn't a good thing. You're better off using a different Grass-type move, like Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, etc.

I understand, so Frenzy Plant shoudn't be used then and use Leaf Storm in it's place for battling real people on Wi-fi & stuff. since you waitting after using frenzy plant would make it harder to win a battle with some one.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Angelroid

I understand, so Frenzy Plant shoudn't be used then and use Leaf Storm in it's place for battling real people on Wi-fi & stuff. since you waitting after using frenzy plant would make it harder to win a battle with some one.

Leaf Storm isn't a good idea on Serperior either because it weakens Serperior's already subpar Special Attack after each use. Leaf Storm does see use when Contrary Serperior is released; said ability turns Leaf Storm's drops into boosts. You're better off using Giga Drain or Leaf Blade as Serperior's Grass STAB.

[Wolflare]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

Leaf Storm isn't a good idea on Serperior either because it weakens Serperior's already subpar Special Attack after each use.

You could say the same about any other Pokémon that uses Leaf Storm, Draco Meteor, etc. The Pokémon will have to be switched out regardless, unless it's mixed.

Still, Serperior's Leaf Storm isn't very powerful so it's better off sticking with set up moves like Calm Mind, Coil, etc. But Glare isn't very good on those movesets because Serperior has to give up a coverage move.

[Angelroid]

Can i get movesets for this pokemon.

Serperior
Weezing
Raticate
Mandibuzz
Cloyster
And would Bisharp work in this team?

[Wolflare]

I'm just going to recommend using Smogon's BW Pokédex for finding movesets instead of pasting all of their movesets here. I don't have any experience with using any of those Pokémon so I can't give any personal advice.

Bisharp could work but you might not find much success with it in standard play; the same goes for most of the other Pokémon you're using. You would have to support Bisharp very well to have any chances at winning with it. Your choice though.

[Live in Color]

I need help trying to find a good balanced team, I've got 3/6 planned that I'm working on currently. Right now I'm more concerned with finding a Stealth Rocker/Spiker and a Spinner as well as two walls.

The 3/6 Pokemon I'm going to have so far are my sweepers.


Cobalion @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Justified
Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-X-Scissor
-Earthquake


Volcarona @ Leftovers
Flame Body
Bold
240 HP, 216 Def, 52 Spe
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Roost


Hydreigon @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Levitate
Mild
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Super Power
-Earthquake/Dark Pulse

So, yeah I've got no walls really, Volcarona is somewhat but takes a bit of setting up, and can't rely on it for defense. I was thinking having a Jellicent and Skarmory combo, but that still leaves me with no Spinner.