[B2/W2] SPOILERS: Ghetsis censorship

[Darthrai]

So Ghetsis doesn't try to murder Nate/Rosa after all in the English version. He simply tries to freeze them solid. But not only that, he does it so that they can "watch his glorious ascent".



What do you guys think?

Personally, I think this was kind of a stupid move. Lots of kids' shows and movies use "kill" and "die" without hesitation. It makes Ghetsis sound a lot more cartoonish and less of a monster, and the fact that they made a point of the protagonist still being alive isn't a good sign either (even "I'll freeze you solid right here and let you be" would have been way better while still being safe for little kids).

It reminds me a lot of "Han shot first" in Star Wars, where a change to a tiny little scene to make it more politically correct kinda ruins the characterization of a major character. I can see this becoming the "Han shot first" of the Pokemon fandom ("Ghetsis tried to kill you" T-shirts, anyone?)

And just for fun, here's a Dolan comic about it (warning: some (albeit misspelled) language):
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/414357-dolan

[Sydian]

Can you fix the link on the comic? lol Can't watch the vid cause I'm in class...anyway, I didn't even know he tried to kill you in the Jap versions. But hey, censorship is nothing new. Nothing new at all. If you're not Japanese, you're automatically in a super-sensitive country so there you go!

[Killjoy]

Whatever. Generally freezing someone solid would kill that someone.... So I wouldn't read into it that much.


That being said, a lot of parent groups have it out for Pokémon. I think GF would just like to avoid giving them anymore ammo than they already have

[shengar]

This is suck really
Their effort to maturized the series still hindered by needless censorship.
Like you said, there are A LOT of show where the character threaten another character with "kill" or "die". Why should they censor it at all? There are worse thing out there and it not even censored.

EDIT: Actually, in my opinion freezes someone alive while they still conscious considere as fate worse than dead
Just imagine being frozen for Arceus-know-when while you still have your mind.
Seriously this kind of censorship would get us to nowhere as it only make things even worse than before

[Darthrai]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Whatever. Generally freezing someone solid would kill that someone.... So I wouldn't read into it that much.


That being said, a lot of parent groups have it out for Pokémon. I think GF would just like to avoid giving them anymore ammo than they already have

Well... at least to me, it looks like Ghetsis is making a point of keeping the protagonist alive.

As for parent groups, I do remember that they complained about Pokémon a lot in the '90s. Maybe that's why they're so prudish about censorship (this and censoring "Afro Break" and the word "afro" too, though that might have had more to do with the Jynx controversy too). Still, it's been 15 years, and I'm sure that they can safely stop doing that kind of thing...

Originally Posted by shengar

This is suck really
Their effort to maturized the series still hindered by needless censorship.
Like you said, there are A LOT of show where the character threaten another character with "kill" or "die". Why should they censor it at all? There are worse thing out there and it not even censored.

Exactly - suddenly, BW1 seem like the darker games than BW2. I know it was only one line, but still, "Han shot first".

And the comic link has been fixed

[shengar]

Originally Posted by Darthrai

Well... at least to me, it looks like Ghetsis is making a point of keeping the protagonist alive.

As for parent groups, I do remember that they complained about Pokémon a lot in the '90s. Maybe that's why they're so prudish about censorship (this and censoring "Afro Break" and the word "afro" too, though that might have had more to do with the Jynx controversy too). Still, it's been 15 years, and I'm sure that they can safely stop doing that kind of thing...



Exactly - suddenly, BW1 seem like the darker games than BW2. I know it was only one line, but still, "Han shot first".

And the comic link has been fixed

Yeah, Pokemon past experience with controversy in US make Nintendo take really conservative approach when handling this franchise. Just look at the needless redesign of Lenora.

Also you can check my edited comment

[Darthrai]

Originally Posted by shengar

Yeah, Pokemon past experience with controversy in US make Nintendo take really conservative approach when handling this franchise. Just look at the needless redesign of Lenora.

Also you can check my edited comment

Actually, the Lenora redesign made sense in my opinion - from what I read, they even recursively applied it to Japan too. She seemed like less of a racist stereotype and more of a positive character in the English version, and IMO it's one of the few good censorship changes they've made (along with Jynx).

Being frozen alive being a "fate worse than death" is probably unintentional Fridge Horror rather than an honest attempt on their part to keep Ghetsis scary while censoring. They're probably trying to give the impression that Nate/Rosa are just frozen in the same (relatively minor) way that Pokemon are frozen during battles. >.<

You know things are bad when the ANIME is the incarnation of the franchise that uses "kill" and "die" the most often.

EDIT: And meanwhile, the game has this in it too... inconsistent standards anyone?

[Retribution]

'eh, I'm not too fussed. As long as they're not removing content *cough* Game Corner *cough* or changing the storyline massively (such as getting rid of a character, completely changing the plot or whatever) then I don't really mind.

[Darthrai]

Added a poll so you guys can express your opinions

[shengar]

Originally Posted by Darthrai

Actually, the Lenora redesign made sense in my opinion - from what I read, they even recursively applied it to Japan too. She seemed like less of a racist stereotype and more of a positive character in the English version, and IMO it's one of the few good censorship changes they've made (along with Jynx).

Being frozen alive being a "fate worse than death" is probably unintentional Fridge Horror rather than an honest attempt on their part to keep Ghetsis scary while censoring. They're probably trying to give the impression that Nate/Rosa are just frozen in the same (relatively minor) way that Pokemon are frozen during battles. >.<

You know things are bad when the ANIME is the incarnation of the franchise that uses "kill" and "die" the most often.

EDIT: And meanwhile, the game has this in it too... inconsistent standards anyone?

Woa, that was something new to me
I always though that Lenora's "apron" supposed to keep the dust away from her clothes while see cleaning up relics and stuff.
Well, it just me but I never saw Lenora as racist stereotype whatsoever. Because yeah, her character

Unintentional Fridge Horror, yeah so damned true >__>
Does Nintendo give a further thought about this when censoring? It already gave me the chill how Ghetsis keeps you alive while he doing his evil deeds. Its the same when Bane keeps Batman alive just toa make sure he witness the destruction of Gotham. Even Batman ask someone to kill him outright.


I even vote poll number 2 for the sake of sarcasm

EDIT: uhh, what that picture supposed to mean? Is the biker getting......

[Ash493]

Well... American versions... I'm always saying that censorship destroys American versions... and that's why I hate them...

[Rodriguezjames55]

damn soccer moms ruining america i think its stupid

[BZW Golem]

Well, freezing means dying in most cases anyway.

But that sharp icicles don't make it look like trying to "freeze", but to pierce o.0

Oh well, I HOPE that my european version will not have this change.. but that may be only my hope >..>"

[redjacketalchemist]

Originally Posted by shengar

Does Nintendo give a further thought about this when censoring? It already gave me the chill how Ghetsis keeps you alive

BAHAHAHA pun *smacked*

Anyway, I'm not too upset over it. I figured they would do something like this- in fact, I was under the impression that when Ghetsis said 'kill' he was just going to have Kyurem freeze the protagonist anyway...although that doesn't exactly guarantee death, but meh.

[Blade_of_darkness]

Here's the way I see it: Being frozen alive is a slower & more horrible way to die, so I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about with this regard.

Think about it, you've got hypothermia & frostbite mixed together, & if left that way, your going to die. Also, if Ghetsis threatens to kill the MC, we won't know how he's going to kill him/her - It might be some quick & painless method, or the worst thing anyone can imagine. We'll never know.

[droomph]

I mean, English has a much bigger vocabulary by default - and in Japanese, how they say it is a lot different, though they use the same word.

I don't really care but I'm kinda disappointed that that would happen?

[Nintendork15]

To be fair, The general rule in gaming, is you can't harm the children. Which makes every single pokémon trainer main character invincible.

And in my eyes, Freezing em alive and killing them would have the same outcome.
EDIT: Also, unless you speak and read fluent japanese, do you really know what ghetsis said, and if he was trying to kill you, or still freeze?

[droomph]

I never said they were, I just said that it cld be a possibility.

[Nintendork15]

I never said the post was directed at you. xD
And i didn't see your post.

[Darthrai]

Originally Posted by Nintendork15

To be fair, The general rule in gaming, is you can't harm the children. Which makes every single pokémon trainer main character invincible.

And in my eyes, Freezing em alive and killing them would have the same outcome.
EDIT: Also, unless you speak and read fluent japanese, do you really know what ghetsis said, and if he was trying to kill you, or still freeze?

It's possible that they might have been trying to give the impression that it's "temporary freezing that can be undone by the tears of poor Pokémon to bring you back". You know, just like in the Pokémon movies! *facepalm*

Or, they might have translated it so that little kids interpret it that way, while older players take it more seriously and know how lethal it is. I wish we had an interview of some kind where we could find out what they intended when they translated it...

It's also possible that they bowdlerized it just to prevent the games from getting an E10+ rating, anyone think of that?

[DenCabe]

Cutting stuff out/Censoring when Translated is messed up.:cer_shifty:

[Wobbachomp]

Well, I can't really say I care about this much.

[PokeRaidenFighter350Z]

Eh... don't care of the change. This is like a localization thing. I was expecting something like this from the start. It's obvious the Japanese are more tolerant to violent actions such as Ghetsis trying to actually kill the protagonist. This may seem a little off topic but in the US version of Final Fight 1 & 2 for the SNES, there were NO female enemies because the issue of "domestic violence".

[Para-Dox]

What's the difference, and why are we making such a deal over it.

In short Death = Frozen Alive. It's just another way of killing someone. No actual censorship here.

[Yuzuru Otonashi]

... I don't get it, what's the issue?

Honestly, if Japanese DOES say kill, then the localized version does it better. Freezing to death, especially to watch as they die, is a lot more fitting than just killing them, and I honestly cant see the issue.