[Discussion] The American Politics Discussion Thread

[Stand Alone]

Biden wrecked Ryan, enough said. Yet, despite that, he is being deemed the loser by many people because he hasn't been acting very dignified and people are saying he was being obnoxious. Joe Biden was being Joe Biden. And he was doing exactly what people said Obama should have done and called out his opponent and challenged him when he knew the opposition was lying. However, he is now being criticized for it (and, if I may add, Romney was just as rude during the last debate, even going so far as to tell the moderator how to run the debate.) I will admit though that, while dancing around the questions and while being called out, Ryan did hold his own against Biden, if only for how he handled his opponent's criticism (which, again, I would like to point out reminded me a bit of how Obama acted last week, minus all the ahs and ums.)


I agree with Went: The one thing I think that it probably did was (hopefully) galvanize supporters. Not because of the policies, but because again: he stood up and criticized what he knew or believed wrong. People on the non-Conservative side (I'm including independents as well, not just liberals) haven't been doing that as much in this election cycle I don't think. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out from here. Things are probably about to get much messier.

[Scarf]

Biden won this one. He had the passion and a response for every assertion that Ryan made. Ryan stayed cool, which is good for him, and he presented his points which will make Republicans happy, but he had no zingers, no defining moments, and fell apart on foreign policy. Funny how Ryan said, basically, that he pretty much agrees with the president on Syria, Iran, and Afghanistan, but then at the same time criticizes the president for his stance on Syria, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Also, glad that 47% got brought up and women's issues a.k.a. abortion. Fantastic job by Martha Raddatz in moderating this. She might be the real winner overall.

[LividZephyr]

I'm not watching any of the debates. I just don't want any more reasons to hate most of the people involved in this, because that's all this election is doing. Whatever happened to honesty being the best policy? Whatever happened to promoting oneself, as opposed to attacking the other guy? Why are we voting against someone instead of for someone?

I really am sick of the way this system is going... and I need a rock to crawl under.

[Shdwj]

Biden may have spoken for a longer time (a little more boldly) than Ryan, but let's face it: Joe Biden was outright rude last night. He showed absolutely no decency or respect except at the beginning and end of the debates. Ryan would bring up ideas that I believe would be of interest to the American people (ideas to promote and establish jobs, which are much needed in America today) and Biden would cut him off and keep him from fully explaining the policies he and Romney plan to establish. Hardcore liberals and democrats might praise him for such behavior, but I believe that Biden left a negative impression upon many who remain undecided this election.

[Livewire]

Originally Posted by Shdwj

Biden may have spoken for a longer time (a little more boldly) than Ryan, but let's face it: Joe Biden was outright rude last night. He showed absolutely no decency or respect except at the beginning and end of the debates. Ryan would bring up ideas that I believe would be of interest to the American people (ideas to promote and establish jobs, which are much needed in America today) and Biden would cut him off and keep him from fully explaining the policies he and Romney plan to establish. Hardcore liberals and democrats might praise him for such behavior, but I believe that Biden left a negative impression upon many who remain undecided this election.

Being rude to a two-faced liar kinda cancels out.

[-ty-]

I would give the edge to Biden, especially on substance, but he did appear too aggressive and, at times, impolite. If he would have cut back just a bit on the attack, he would have been the decisive winner in the public eye. Undecided voters might see him as more partisan and combative after this debate. Style can trump substance for many voters.

Both candidates did well and produced an overall better discussion than did the presidential candidates.

The impact of this debate was essentially a bandage over the bleeding of Obama support. It is really up to the President to have a more than terrific debate next week if he wants to make any shift in the polls for the election. If Mitt Romney out-performs, or even matches, the President's performance next week, Mitt will probably claim the presidency. At this point in time, I would say it's a 40/60 percent chance that Obama/Romney will win respectively.

[Scarf]

I can see how Biden could be off-putting to people who aren't too familiar with the stuff that was discussed, but Ryan bends the truth too much and you can't do what Obama did and let your opponent get away with lying. You have to call him on it. That's the part of politics that I find disheartening, that some would lie and then act all indignant and offended that you aren't being polite to them. Especially during a debate where appearances usually trump substance in the eye of the undecided voter.

But all this aside I'm more indignant about the voter ID laws and similar voter suppression tactics that have been going on lately. If your guy can't legitimately win an election, well, don't worry about it because we'll just make sure the other guy doesn't get as many votes as he would.

[FreakyLocz14]

Romney and Ryan should call the Dems out on their lie that they want to end Medicare! This is such a big lie that it won PolitiFact.com's "Lie of the Year" award for 2011 (Source). The GOP's plan preserves Medicare for current seniors, and gives future retirees a choice between traditional Medicare, or a premium support payment to purchase a private plan. The private option is just that, optional, not mandatory.

That being said, neither major party ticket has my vote in this election.

[Netto Azure]

Seems Moderate Mitt is out in full force today. "We need more Pell Grants" You mean the one that your VP partner's plan completely get's rid off?

And damn Obama is out swinging.

[Keiran777]

Mitt Romney finally reveals his tax plan. http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

Also, he is getting thrown under his fleet of limos at this debate.

[Stand Alone]

All I can say in response to that link is: while I can't say I approve of the plan, the site itself is ooooh so very amusing ;3

Being fair, I think both did a fairly excellent job at defending their positions (or in Mitt's case, defending the flavor of the week), though I felt Mitt was (and I'll admit that the President did this somewhat as well, though nowhere near to Mitt's degree) a bit uneducated in how the debate "procedure" goes, and seemed to once again give off this air of authority that seemed, to me, to reek of feelings of superiority.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Keiran777

Mitt Romney finally reveals his tax plan. http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

I spent twenty minutes trying to catch the button.

Yes, I am easily amused.

[93Aiwass]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I'm voting for Aleister Crowley in 2012. The reason why is because he's clearly the best choice for president and Boulder County/Colorado is swinging blue anyway, so I don't have to worry about Romney getting elected.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

[Toujours]

Not surprised that Romney's comment about how he has binders full of women isn't going over well on the internet...

http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/

[93Aiwass]

Originally Posted by Toujours

Not surprised that Romney's comment about how he has binders full of women isn't going over well on the internet...

http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

If he weren't Mormon, I would think that he would have binders full of...

Well, you get the idea. But Binders full of Women isn't the first nor only stupid thing Romney has said on the campaign trail. He just seems like he is working for the Guiness World Record for stupid stuff said by a candidate on the campaign trail.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

[Scarf]

Romney said "I recognized that if you’re going to have women in the workforce, that sometimes you need to be more flexible." Little late there, aren't ya? Their ain't no "if" about it. Women be working for a long time before your binders, Mittens.

And that moment when Romney thought he'd caught Obama in a lie about his response to the attack in Libya...



Priceless. Can't wait to see parody gifs of this.

[93Aiwass]

Originally Posted by Scarf

Romney said "I recognized that if you’re going to have women in the workforce, that sometimes you need to be more flexible." Little late there, aren't ya? Their ain't no "if" about it. Women be working for a long time before your binders, Mittens.

And that moment when Romney thought he'd caught Obama in a lie about his response to the attack in Libya...



Priceless. Can't wait to see parody gifs of this.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I don't understand why you'd need to be more flexible - just be non-misogynistic. I can see where that would require flexibility for Romney and any other Republican running for office but yeah, not for those of us who are actually human.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

[Winter's Dew]

All I have to say is this:

I'm looking forward to the Foreign Policy debate on Monday.

Knowing how Went flipped out on the first debate on how Romney got his facts wrong about Spain, I'm actually eager to see how this is going to play out. XD

[Mr. X]

$5 right here, right now, says that that debate will be about China, Iran, and Israel.

[Nuke]

Being British I obviously am not as up to date as some on the US election, but due to my general interest in politics and surplus free time in school earlier I watched through the full second debate.

Now I'm well aware Romney has made more than a few blunders during his campaign, but based on my limited knowledge of the general situation and the evidence of this debate I think I'm more partial to him at this point. Maybe I'm just a bit obsessed with budgets being balanced, but it seems very important to me the deficit caused during the Obama adminstration compared with Romney's previous displayed ability at balancing budgets as a governor. It's a shame that he would prefer to keep his nation in the dark on his tax plan because it could be the key point that swings the election his way, but maybe that's just how US politics is meant to go.

Feel free to correct me on all mistakes I have managed to make there, as I say I'm not from the US and therefore no expert on their politics. :P

[Stand Alone]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

$5 right here, right now, says that that debate will be about China, Iran, and Israel.

Instead of just Iran, China, and Israel, can we just go ahead and say the Middle East and China? Might as well, seeing as how not only will Afghanistan surely be a hot point, but so might Pakistan and Syria. Chances are good too that they'll talk about Egypt and Libya as well.

[FreakyLocz14]

Originally Posted by Keiran777

Mitt Romney finally reveals his tax plan. http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

Also, he is getting thrown under his fleet of limos at this debate.

I actually caught the button! My mouse pointer was at the edge of it, but it did catch it.

I'll give Obama credit for winning this debate by lying. Romney also really had to debate two opponents: Obama, and the liberal moderator who helped Obama out.

I'm more concerned with the fact that a U.S. presidential candidate and her running mate were arrested at the debate for attempting to share her views on the issues with the American voters! http://rt.com/usa/news/police-jill-stein-debate-589/ I am referring to the Green Party's presidential nominee, Jill Stein, and VP nominee, Cheri Honkala.

I don't agree with much of what the Green Party is proposing, but I do believe that the people deserve to hear from all of the candidates, so that they can make an informed decision as to who they want to lead our country.

[Mr. X]

By that logic, you also have to give credit for Romney for lieing through the first debate, because he did a complete 180 on pretty much everything he talked about, when compared to earlier statements.

Anyway,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1974906.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

With as many times as he's shot himself in the foot this election, I'm surpised that he's still walking.

Also, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1972236.html

I think its good that she was forcing the candidates to follow the agreed upon rules, tried pressuring Romney for more direct answers to questions, and tried to keep the debate moving to new topics instead of letting it turn into a argument about one or two topics.

Also, love when she called Romney out on his blatant lie about how long it took Obama to call the Bengazi attacks a 'Act of Terror'.

[93Aiwass]

Originally Posted by Nuke

Being British I obviously am not as up to date as some on the US election, but due to my general interest in politics and surplus free time in school earlier I watched through the full second debate.

Now I'm well aware Romney has made more than a few blunders during his campaign, but based on my limited knowledge of the general situation and the evidence of this debate I think I'm more partial to him at this point. Maybe I'm just a bit obsessed with budgets being balanced, but it seems very important to me the deficit caused during the Obama adminstration compared with Romney's previous displayed ability at balancing budgets as a governor. It's a shame that he would prefer to keep his nation in the dark on his tax plan because it could be the key point that swings the election his way, but maybe that's just how US politics is meant to go.

Feel free to correct me on all mistakes I have managed to make there, as I say I'm not from the US and therefore no expert on their politics.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Here's where you got it wrong - it's not Obama's tax plan that caused the deficit, it's Bush's. The fact of the matter is that Obama hasn't had the courage to stand up and work to revoke the Bush-era tax cuts on the rich and actually renewed them, thus making sure the deficit would get bigger.

The sad truth is that we do need to raise taxes in order to help pay down the deficit and repair the economy. I think we should start by revoking the Bush era tax cuts and then work our way from there. After all, when the rich were paying their fair share... we built the Interstate system - one of this country's most ambitious public works projects.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by 93Aiwass

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Here's where you got it wrong - it's not Obama's tax plan that caused the deficit, it's Bush's. The fact of the matter is that Obama hasn't had the courage to stand up and work to revoke the Bush-era tax cuts on the rich and actually renewed them, thus making sure the deficit would get bigger.

The sad truth is that we do need to raise taxes in order to help pay down the deficit and repair the economy. I think we should start by revoking the Bush era tax cuts and then work our way from there. After all, when the rich were paying their fair share... we built the Interstate system - one of this country's most ambitious public works projects.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

Personally, I don't see why they are having so many issues on this. It's real simple. If your going to reduce the deficit, get half by reducing the budget and half by increased taxes.

Here's the thing though, the Interstate system? It wasn't, originally, built for the average person. Thats not why it got funding. It was funded as a way to ensure rapid movement of military hardware and material in the case that we got invaded.