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  #1    
Old October 18th, 2012, 05:31 PM
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Perhaps a music forum can be created. I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally love remixing, and listening to other's versions of Pokemon Themes. Maybe this can be a new sub forum in the creative discussion forums.
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  #2    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:24 AM
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I cannot remix a song to save my life, but I do really love to listen to other people's remixes. Not only of pokémon themes. It's also nice to listen to original music that's different from what we hear and see from the record labels. And as for now, the only place someone could post and talk about their music creations on PC is... General Entertainment or, like, Other Chat or Technology and the Internet, really. Right?

I think there's been mentions about a board like this before, but I can't remember what was said. Probably that it wouldn't be too popular.

Youtube is (probably) the obvious place to post the songs themselves on, but it doesn't invite discussions and possible guidance as much as a forum can. What I mean is, It would be fun to try out at least a subforum to Art & Design or Technology and the Internet or something like that.
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  #3    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:29 AM
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As much as I wish we had a bigger audience for that, I don't think it'd be popular enough to warrant an entire forum. :(
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  #4    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:35 AM
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I guess so.

But, so, hm. If someone want to create a thread for showcasing their remixes and perhaps letting others post their own creations as well, should it be made in Art & Design? It's creative, I mean. As opposed to someone who want to create a thread just for discussing and linking to other people's music, because that could go in Technology and the Internet?
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  #5    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:38 AM
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That goes in the creative media showcase thread in General Emtertainment.
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  #6    
Old October 19th, 2012, 03:01 AM
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I've thought about suggesting this a couple times before, but like they said above I don't think there's a big enough audience for it here to warrant one, it probably wouldn't be used that much. As it stands the Creative Media Showcase thread doesn't get used often at all, so a sub-forum probably wouldn't be viable...

However, I do like the idea. One thing that has always bugged me about the Showcase thread is the lack of people commenting/critiquing other people's work and instead just ignoring the other posts to share their own stuff, so perhaps a section/sub-forum would help encourage this kind of discussion and therefore make people want to post their work more often as they know it'll likely be evaluated by someone? Also as shown above it seems that not everyone is aware of where this kind of work should be posted (even half the posts in the Showcase thread had to be moved there from other places since people didn't know where to post their work), so perhaps if there was a distinct section for it then people would realise it's there and become more interested? That is a completely hypothetical assumption of course and is a bold comment to make, but I'd wager money that it'd turn out to be true.

If it was implemented, the section could host a lot of threads to get less musical members involved such as karaoke, how-to videos (eg people upload lessons of how to play certain songs or instruments for other members to use), lyrics writing, group projects, etc, and the amount of different competitions that the section could run is staggering, so I think it certainly would be an easy area to keep fresh and active if it had the right amount of interest. It'd most likely be a slow-starting section whilst people get to grips with what they can post there and actually get round to making the work to post, but I feel like it could most likely grow quite large given the right members using it.

As a side note, I have seen quite a few people around the forum that record/produce music (original and covers) that have sent work to other members in VM/etc to be commented on, so I don't think the proposal is completely off. It depends on whether they'd actually use a section for it I guess. Personally I too have been looking to post some of my own work to get critiqued, but since the Showcase thread rarely ever brings comments I've posted it on other sites instead, and I expect I'm not alone in this.

If only we could trial sections for a few weeks haha.
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  #7    
Old October 19th, 2012, 06:47 AM
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Yes, a trial section! I've never actually paid attention those things, but if there was a subforum for that that was a bit less disorganized than that thread, I would definitely pay attention.

I'm sure lots would think the same!
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  #8    
Old October 19th, 2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by droomph View Post
Yes, a trial section! I've never actually paid attention those things, but if there was a subforum for that that was a bit less disorganized than that thread, I would definitely pay attention.

I'm sure lots would think the same!
Pretty sure we haven't had trial sections before, but it's surely something I'd want to see. Sure, as Alex mentioned, right now it looks like people just aren't really interested in music, but instead of shunning of the idea, then I agree that giving it a chance for a limited amount of time would be an idea, and then decide from the activity whether it's something that's needed or not. Of course the section would be way more active when its new than later on, but still, it's something I'm sure quite a few members would want to see, and it'd really make stuff like collaborations and reviewing music, and everything to it a lot easier. So yeah, I'm fully for the implemention of such a forum, even if it just starts out as a "trial forum" :>
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  #9    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Think about it, I can tell you that even if everyone doesn't follow music exactly, most people still have a general interest in music. A trial sub forum could be great to draw attention to it. Once people start seeing it, maybe things would be different!
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  #10    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:17 PM
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And just to be sure, this can be all music, right? From like Pokémon music all the way to like field shows? I'm sure I would have quite a few from my school that my band director would be pleased to get "civilian" feedback on, and this could encourage Pokémon hacks to incorporate music a bit more (as I have noticed that a popular resource thread for graphics has been moved to art, so starting up a shop and displaying your hack work and stuff would be cool too!)
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  #11    
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tman109ner View Post
Think about it, I can tell you that even if everyone doesn't follow music exactly, most people still have a general interest in music. A trial sub forum could be great to draw attention to it. Once people start seeing it, maybe things would be different!
It'd be pretty cool to see a trial forum for it, but I don't think PC would opt to do that, but you never know. If a trial board was made, I'd definitely make use of it.
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  #12    
Old October 19th, 2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexOzzyCake View Post
One thing that has always bugged me about the Showcase thread is the lack of people commenting/critiquing other people's work and instead just ignoring the other posts to share their own stuff, so perhaps a section/sub-forum would help encourage this kind of discussion and therefore make people want to post their work more often as they know it'll likely be evaluated by someone? Also as shown above it seems that not everyone is aware of where this kind of work should be posted (even half the posts in the Showcase thread had to be moved there from other places since people didn't know where to post their work), so perhaps if there was a distinct section for it then people would realise it's there and become more interested? That is a completely hypothetical assumption of course and is a bold comment to make, but I'd wager money that it'd turn out to be true.
If people were more willing to talk about their or other people's creations in the CMS, then I'd be more amenable to the idea of a subforum. As it stands though, I really don't think there's the interest for any subforum of that nature, if a single thread can't get a massive response.
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Old October 19th, 2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Cat Dog View Post
If people were more willing to talk about their or other people's creations in the CMS, then I'd be more amenable to the idea of a subforum. As it stands though, I really don't think there's the interest for any subforum of that nature, if a single thread can't get a massive response.
That is an entirely valid point, but I think there are reasons that people aren't posting in that thread as much as they should. I don't know to what extent (if any) these reasons are true, but I'd like to propose a few possibilities:

Firstly, a fair amount of people don't actually seem to know that the thread exists, proven by the amount of posts that have to be moved their with comments like "I don't know where to post this so I'll post it here -> moved" and the people in this thread that weren't aware it existed. I'm not saying this stops other people from commenting, but it seems logical that if more people were aware of the thread then more people would be likely to post there, and then the increased activity would make the thread seem more inviting to post in causing an exponential effect (this is of course a big assumption, but I feel the logic is reasonable). This leads to the second possible reason, being that very few of the posts there at the moment are actually comments on people's work. With the space between each post and the lack of comment posts in the thread, it may feel like posting something that's not a media showcase would be spam as no one else has done it and therefore people don't want to try. However, I'd still say that the main issue here is that people simply aren't aware of the thread's existence or don't know what it's for. Once again, this is a big assumption, but looking at past responses I wouldn't say it's out of the question. Therefore, if these reasons are true, creating a section (be it a forum or sub-forum) for posting the media showcases would A) Let members know that they're able/encouraged to post comments on the work as each piece of work will be in it's own thread, and B) Show members that there's somewhere to actively post their work or listen to other people's work to comment on, as well as giving them an area to find WIPs to continue and tutorials/other media creations to look at. This would give members a place to post a wider range of material, for example tuition videos or lyrics/riffs they've written, and then other members could use those lyrics/riffs (with permission of course) to create songs from etc. In summary, I think that making a section in which to post this stuff would give people the knowledge and reassurance of where to post their work, will open up the possibilities to a much larger range of hobbies/talents to be posted, will give people the ability to collaborate on their works much more easily, and will make it much more likely for people to get their work critiqued and commented on. There's also the possibility that since all media showcases are bundled into one umbrella thread, it may not seem as inviting/important and instead feel like a throw-away pile for anything left over from the other creative sections.

All-in-all it's certainly a risky endeavour as most of the arguments in favour of the forum being created are hypothetical and there's not too much evidence to suggest that people will use it other than an unsupported "I know members that have done similar in VMs" and the posts in this thread, but I personally think it would pay off based on the responses so far. I do entirely understand if hypothetical reasons aren't enough though as I'd definitely be iffy about accepting them myself in most cases haha. I think my attitude at the moment is "It's worth the risk if it does pay off" as it has the potential to be an extremely diverse and unique section if it does kick off, but the risk is pretty large so it's completely understandable if the section isn't made.

One thing I would suggest if the forum isn't made is a possible revamp of the current showcase thread, possibly accompanied with a forum-wide announcement so people are aware that it exists? It's not in the most obvious place right now (not that there's really anywhere else to put it at the moment) so the publicity would help. It could be used as a test to see if a forum would actually be viable some time in the future and if not, it would hopefully at least lead to the thread getting some more constructive activity if it's explained properly. I'd also suggest coming up with a new name for the thread since honestly the current name isn't that clear on what's meant to be in the thread, but that's just a matter of opinion haha.
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  #14    
Old October 20th, 2012, 01:44 PM
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i see everyone saying theres not a big audience but personally i would love to have a music subforum
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Old October 20th, 2012, 04:14 PM
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I'm not very often on PC, but if there was a music sub-forum I would definitely take a look now and then. I don't actually remix/produce anything myself, but I do love music and I would like to hear what others create.
So I would encourage that thought.
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  #16    
Old October 21st, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexOzzyCake View Post
One thing I would suggest if the forum isn't made is a possible revamp of the current showcase thread, possibly accompanied with a forum-wide announcement so people are aware that it exists? It's not in the most obvious place right now (not that there's really anywhere else to put it at the moment) so the publicity would help. It could be used as a test to see if a forum would actually be viable some time in the future and if not, it would hopefully at least lead to the thread getting some more constructive activity if it's explained properly. I'd also suggest coming up with a new name for the thread since honestly the current name isn't that clear on what's meant to be in the thread, but that's just a matter of opinion haha.
I have no problems with this. Publicity for the thread certainly can't hurt, and would definitely be the best test for determining if a potential sub-forum would be used. As for the name, I'd definitely be all ears for hearing a better one. Names/titles for anything are not my strong suit, and the name as it stands was easily the best out of a bunch that were suggested: it was short, snappy and relatively to the point. Having said that, I need to quibble with a few other points that you made in your previous post.

First off, there have definitely some posts moved into the Creative Media Showcase (CMS), but the number is very, very small. As a percentage of total submissions, ones that were not started in the CMS itself totalled about 6%. And of those, most of them were started in C&M/GE, meaning that people would have hopefully seen the CMS before choosing not to post in it. That implies that there's a lack of awareness of the purpose of the CMS; not that there is a demand that isn't being currently met. If there was a demand, either a) the CMS itself would be more active or b) more posts would be merged into the CMS through lack of awareness. None of these are happening at the moment, implying that there isn't a hidden demand that we're not seeing.

Second, the lack of commentary is also concerning. However, the ability to comment upon posts in the CMS is highlighted in the first paragraph of the CMS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative Media Showcase
If you've seen something in this thread that you like and want to comment upon it, great! That's what this thread is here for too
Of the people who have posted in the CMS, 70% have only done so once. And most of my posts are administrative in nature, meaning that the true 'community' of the CMS couples about 25% of the thread. I honestly wish the CMS were a more thriving, vibrant community... and maybe the problem is simply lack of awareness. However, to be honest, I've never really thought there was all that much demand for this kind of stuff on PC. It's all very well people saying that they'd post in threads and contribute and make their own remixes/videos/whatever, but when push comes to shove very few people are willing to put their money where their mouths are. (And yes, I'm aware that I'm speaking entirely in idioms! :P)

The creation of a sub-forum/new forum in general is something not to be taken lightly. Obviously not on the same level as curing cancer, but on PC, it's a pretty big deal. Of the two most recently created sub-forums, there was either a) clear demand for a sub-forum (Pokemon Voting Polls) or b) a strong basis to open up forums further, but in a natural progression (Competitive Team Help/Character Discussion & Shipping). With the CMS, it's been established that there's not a demand at present, and it doesn't naturally flow from the main points of GE. So, at this present time, I don't see the value of adding a sub-forum that would probably end up being a wasteland.

But, like I mentioned at the start of this very tl;dr thread, the lack of awareness is a serious issue, and I'll try my best to improve that.
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Old October 21st, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Fair enough, that's perfectly reasonable :) The only thing I would say regarding the lack of commentary is that perhaps if the thread is relaunched, commenting/critiquing should form a more noticeable section of the first post - currently it's only one sentence in the middle of a paragraph without any highlighting or anything, so if we were to make the notice more prominent and make commenting seem like a much bigger part of the thread then hopefully we'll get more people pay attention to it? Then if everyone starts off with commenting it'll become the norm for others to follow in their posts. Also maybe adding some headings/CSS and splitting up the sections will make it seem like more of an official thread if we're using it partially as a test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cat Dog View Post
As for the name, I'd definitely be all ears for hearing a better one. Names/titles for anything are not my strong suit, and the name as it stands was easily the best out of a bunch that were suggested: it was short, snappy and relatively to the point.
I have a few suggestions but nothing too snappy yet, I'll tell you if I think of any haha.

The only thing that does throw me off about this situation is that there'll be nowhere to post projects/group work/tutorials/etc as they'd most likely require a singular thread, or at least one thread per category mentioned. I supposed a way around this would be to include a section about posting half-finished projects or group work requests in the new showcase thread (although that still doesn't allow for tutorials), but if there's little demand for this stuff then maybe they just belong in blogs for now. I suppose we've coped without having them thus far so it's not the end of the world not having them now :p
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