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Competitive Team Help Having trouble with your competitive Pokémon team? Be sure to check here if you need any help on it. Any teams intended for in-game and casual play should be posted in the In-Game Team Help sub-forum.


 
 
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  #1    
Old October 24th, 2012, 06:38 PM
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Sira420
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Gender: Male
Nature: Rash
Mienshao @life orb
Ability: Regenerator
Fake out
drain punch
Uturn
stone edge
He is my tide turner, I know he's frail so my plan is to apply instant damage with fake out. Then if its a bad type like a psychic then uturn will hurt the foe and give me a free dwitch to one of my counters. His ability will restore life orn damage and drain punch for dark, ice, rock, and steel and stone edge for flying weakness... But thats only when he neefs to attack

scizor
Tecnician*
agility
Metal claw
arial ace
baton pass
while sword dance is preferred over agility, this set is still to not be under estimatec! With a base 130 attack and technician, scizor will be able to use moves more concentred on effect rather than strength. For example metal claw: its weak but technician will double its power making it a wondetf STAB plus metal claw has a chance to up attack. With agility scizor doulbles his speed and becomes a hard to stop pokemon. Now imagine this, botyon passing an agility to a sweeper!!! (like back mienshao, or a counter)

Chandelure @lum berry
Heat wave
Shadowball
Energy ball
Painsplit
with the highest non uber sp. Atk stat he is dynamite waiting to be lit. The only bad thing is his mediocre speec which lets him get revenge killed... But imagine a batton pass agility!!! He'll have a base 160 speed and 147 sp atk!! So heat wave, energy ball, and shadowball will ohko many a pokemns. And pain split is when he's low on hp. Because he has a measley 65 base hp, pain split will bring your opponent down. Then any moves will pick it off ^-^

Hydreigon
Nasty plot
Dragon pulse
Flame thower
Dark pulse
Nasty plot + his bulk make him an exceptional bulky sweeper. Add in a baton agility and you have a super sweeper

Garchomp
Earthquake
Sword dance
Dragon claw
Fire fang
same a hiedregon (super sweeper) except its a physical wall breaker instead

Azelf
Nasty plot
Psychic
thunderbolt
grass knot

Azelf is for type coverage for mienshao (weak to flying- thunderbolt) and chandelure (water- eneryball)
I want to add flame thrower but I dunno I really want to keep nasty plot.

I want to add in excadrill (rhapid spin, earthquake, sword dance, iron head) but I haven't decided on whether to take out chandelure or azelf (._.) So um, any advice???

Last edited by awolffromspace; October 27th, 2012 at 03:14 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #2    
Old October 24th, 2012, 07:16 PM
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PlatinumDude
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Hi Jump Kick is the better option for Mienshao over Drain Punch. Sure, the recoil stings a bit, but Mienshao can already heal some HP via Regenerator by switching out.

While Agility on Scizor seems tempting to fix its low Speed, and while it's also tempting to BP it, Smeargle can BP boosts more easily. It's better off scouting or smashing things with Choice Band or setting up Swords Dance and smashing things from there:
-U-turn
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Pursuit/Quick Attack
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Technician

or
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower/Brick Break
-Bug Bite/Roost/Quick Attack
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Technician

or
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite/Brick Break/Superpower
-Roost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/40 Atk/216 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Iron Plate
Ability: Technician

Volcarona is a better alternative over Chandelure; despite the enhanced Rock weakness, it has a higher Speed to utilize its high Special Attack:
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Roost
Nature: Bold
EVs: 240 HP/216 Def/52 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Quiver Dance
-Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Rest
Nature: Modest
EVs: 160 HP/252 SAtk/96 Spe
Item: Chesto Berry

or
-Quiver Dance
-Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hidden Power (Rock/Ground)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Hydreigon can't learn Nasty Plot. The only offensive setup move it learns is Work Up. Hydreigon should take advantage of its high-powered moves to break down walls:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Superpower
-Roost/Earthquake/Earth Power/Dark Pulse
Nature: Rash/Mild
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt

or
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Fire Blast/Roost
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb

or
-Draco Meteor
-Focus Blast
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-U-turn/Dark Pulse
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs

Azelf isn't good honestly; there are other Pokemon in OU who can do its job better. Rotom-W is a good option so that you have Volt-Turn access:
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Trick/Thunderbolt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
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  #3    
Old October 25th, 2012, 07:07 AM
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Sira420
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Nature: Rash
The base of this team is "agililty" and baton pass., it seems kinda stupid to rely on that but if scizor only uses agility and baton passses he will be alive to do a couple more passes. passing a,sword dance to Azelf, hiedregon, or chandelure is completely useless.
And Chandelure IS slow and volcarona has quiver dance, but a volcarona would have to use quiver dance twuce to do the same amount of damage as a chandalures heat wave. So what would you prefer (in,this specific team, I'm a big volcarona fan)
A). Quiver dancing twice then attacking
B). Or walking into a baton pass and then attaking with uber high sp. Atk
With mienshao, I know hi jump kick is much stronger (about 30%) BUT life orb lessens the gap and it will aslo power up fake out and uturn- I'll be using the last 2 more often. And since I'll be switching back constanly he usually turnd out to be my last pokemon, and drain punch saved me lots of times.
And about hiedregon, I actually went and did some research and you have to breed a hiedregon to teach it nasty plot ^-^ its a hassle to get a nature, iv, and correct moves on it but with him its definetely worth it.

This is how many battles will be like:
Mienshao: goes in fake out, (sturdy, focus sash eliminated) then uturn, hp lost by life orb will be recovered with regenerator.
Scizor: goes in uses agility, baton passes agility to either-
Hiedregon
Chandelure
Garchomp
Azelf

All of which will abuse the speed boost. Think about: hydriegon goes in gets double speed. Its next move is nasty plot... What do your pokemon say to themselves... "oh sh¡t, we're screwed"

And I was thinking about your advice, I thought about taking ariel ace out of scizor and using sword dance. Then replacing azelf with excadrill (earthquake, iron head, shadow claw, RHAPID SPIN) this will make scizzor a support mono attacker but a metal claw from sword dance + technician is not something to pass lightly. And I can now add sworddance+agility to a sword dance dance and set up any physical sweeper.
  #4    
Old October 25th, 2012, 11:59 AM
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While Agility + Baton Pass is uncommonly seen, it's not seen often because it can easily be countered; for instance, if Dragonite survives a hit from one of your Pokemon, which is likely considering that it has Multiscale, it can potentially use Dragon Tail to force out your boosted Pokemon. A similar situation can be applied to Copycat + Roar Prankster Riolu. Also, Excadrill is an Uber Pokemon, so you can't use it in OU teams. You're still better off using Scizor for wallbreaking purposes with Swords Dance or Choice Band. Use the sets I suggested above.

To elaborate as to why Hi Jump Kick is preferred on Mienshao, if Mienshao opts for Drain Punch, it loses out on a lot of power behind its STAB, resulting in it missing OHKOs.

Also, some of your Pokemon's defenses are on the low side, so a Dual Screener is needed here to either compensate for lesser Speed or to give your Pokemon an easier time setting up. Latias or Latios can provide that for you:

Latias:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Healing Wish
-Dragon Pulse
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay

Latios:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Memento
-Dragon Pulse
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
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  #5    
Old October 25th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Sira420
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: in a box made of legos
Gender: Male
Nature: Rash
Can starmie learn both screen moves? So I can use it as rhapid spinner?
Ie: starmie @light clay
Reflect
Light screen
Rhapid spin
Surf

And if the pokemon is phased or killed I'll restart yhe process again
Fake out -> uturn -> agility-> baton pass ->sword dance/nasty plot-> die and repeat.
This pattern will make each of my pokemon take down atleast one other pokemon or even a whole team (as long as exremely fast or extremely bulky pokemon phaze it. But only a handful of pokemon can survive a STAB boosted + either sword dance/ nasty plot.... So walls will haveva gard time walling and annoyers will not have a chance to annoy... Only problem is a team full of priority moves like extreme speed, mach punch, ice shard etc...
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  #6    
Old October 25th, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sira420 View Post
Can starmie learn both screen moves? So I can use it as rhapid spinner?
Ie: starmie @light clay
Reflect
Light screen
Rhapid spin
Surf

And if the pokemon is phased or killed I'll restart yhe process again
Fake out -> uturn -> agility-> baton pass ->sword dance/nasty plot-> die and repeat.
This pattern will make each of my pokemon take down atleast one other pokemon or even a whole team (as long as exremely fast or extremely bulky pokemon phaze it. But only a handful of pokemon can survive a STAB boosted + either sword dance/ nasty plot.... So walls will haveva gard time walling and annoyers will not have a chance to annoy... Only problem is a team full of priority moves like extreme speed, mach punch, ice shard etc...
Starmie could do that, but that set wastes its true potential of sweeping by hindering its coverage severely. Lati@s have considerably better bulk than Starmie does as well.

Priority is also another reason why Agili-Passing isn't seen often in OU. Agili-Passing also wastes Scizor's potential as a strong revenge killer with Technician-boosted Bullet Punches, as well as scouting with Choice Band-boosted U-turns. Just because Scizor can BP Speed boosts doesn't mean it should, as it has better things to be doing, like wallbreaking or revenge killing with Choice Band- or Swords Dance-boosted attacks.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Sira420
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I see no point in using scizor as a sweeper when alot of the others are much better sweepers. And a scizor with agility, sword dance, metal claw, could potentially sweep any pokemon who doesn't resist it.
I feel like adding in a danphon (since excadrill is uber) by passing him a sword dance and an agilitu he will surprise anybody.
scizor needs to be my support cause he needs to pass the speef boost to plow through an unprepared team. With baton pass I can also, if needed pass the boosts to mienshao. So drain punch will ohko and restore life orb, stone edge for coverage, making him hard to counter... Actually this whole team will be hard to counter. Wich ever pokemon comes in play will be ripped to shreads by this wall breaking team.
Many people depend on setting up and wearing an appoment down. But toxic teams will useless. After 2 sword sance a gatvhomp can kill 6 pokemon with 6 earth quakes( if it resists earthquake I have dragon claw or fire fang) this sweep can be achieved by one pokemon. I have 6, thats six diffetent chances to sweep. Any team will be caught off gaurd by this set. But youre right a dual screener like latias will fill in the open spaces. So I'll most likey take out ch cauelure or mienshao

Last edited by Sira420; October 25th, 2012 at 06:19 PM.
  #8    
Old October 25th, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sira420 View Post
I see no point in using scizor as a sweeper when alot of the others are much better sweepers. And a scizor with agility, sword dance, metal claw, could potentially sweep any pokemon who doesn't resist it.
I feel like adding in a danphon (since excadrill is uber) by passing him a sword dance and an agilitu he will surprise anybody. also if I need to, I can always pass the boosts to mienshao. So drain punch will ohko and restore life orb, stone edge for coverage so this team will be hard to counter. Wich ever pokemon comes in play will be ripped to shreads by this wall breaking team
Scizor is a good sweeper in its own right. Sure, its movepool isn't the best and its Speed is rather low, but it has Technician-boosted Bullet Punch to revenge kill frail opponents, U-turn for scouting purposes, Bug Bite as a slightly stronger alternative to X-Scissor (factoring in STAB and Technician), Pursuit for hitting fleeing Psychics and Ghosts hard, Quick Attack for alternative priority, Roost for recovery and Superpower/Brick Break for taking out Heatran, Tyranitar and Blissey. Its defensive typing is excellent as well; it leaves Scizor weak to only Fire attacks, but you should have your teammates handle those. Metal Claw doesn't cut it because while it's stronger than Bullet Punch, it doesn't provide much utility besides the 10% chance of boosting Attack (which is rather low). STAB Iron Head still outpowers it (and Bullet Punch, but it should be Scizor's Steel STAB because of the boost from Technician + STAB, and it has priority), but it's better off on Scizor's Choice Scarf sets. You're just not using Scizor right. Plus, Baton Pass Scizor is outclassed by Shell Smash + Baton Pass Gorebyss (and Huntail) because Shell Smash boosts offenses and Speed by 2 levels at the cost of 1 level of each defense.

Even then, BPing boosts sometimes takes dedication, and OU is rather fast-paced, so sometimes your Baton Passer can be KOed before they get the pass in. Some exceptions are Celebi, Vaporeon, Gliscor (who are bulky enough to get BPs in), Jolteon (who can force switches at times), Huntail/Gorebyss (who can Baton Pass Shell Smash as mentioned above), Espeon (who has Magic Bounce to reflect status moves back) and Smeargle (who can easily Baton Pass whatever it wants thanks to Spore).
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  #9    
Old October 26th, 2012, 06:50 AM
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Sira420
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Yes I agree with you on the fact that a scizor with bullet punch and sword sance is easy to set up and sweep, but he would provide no support what so ever to this specific team. As a scouter, well I alreadyy have a scouter, mienshao, and he fulfills his job pretty damn good. Fake out and uturn do around 60% damage ti any base 100 pokemon. Add a life orb and its a sure 75 to 80%. & stone edge not only covers his flying weakness but also wrecks any fire pokemon. So then by uturning to scizor his bulk and type resistance will assure a set up ^-^
As for a different batton passer they don't gave the bulk or type advantage of scizor( I need a pokemon to hit icetypes hard) and while iron head, and x-scissor are strong( having their bp at 80), I prefer bullet punch over both the other stab moves. Bullet punch with technician does the same amount of damage as the other 2 but with added priority. Metal claw falls within range of technician so metal claws 50 bp gets double to 100 (its like an iron earthquake) ;D true story bro ... With One agility many pokemon will be at his mercy. Right now for the kast move slot I'm debating between roost, sword dance, or bullet punch. Sword dance plus technicuan metal claw will be amazingly strong.
the only good counter to this team is a cursing lapras with iceshard. Not a very commom, and its hard to set up. Mienshao with drain punch will do massive damage at first. or scizor to sharply boost attack and destroy with steel stab move.
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Last edited by Sira420; October 26th, 2012 at 07:26 AM. Reason: ....
  #10    
Old October 26th, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Wallbreakers don't need much support outside of dual screening, type synergy and entry hazards. Scizor can be a wallbreaker on its own, while having another teammate to cover for its extreme Fire weakness. Baton Pass support isn't really necessary for your team, given how fast or strong some of them are already.

Don't bother with Metal Claw on Scizor. Ever. Like I said before, it provides little utility besides the low chance of boosting attack. Technician and STAB boosted Metal Claws (50 x 1.5 Technician x 1.5 STAB = 112.5) are also just as strong as STAB elemental punches and Rock Slide (75 x 1.5 STAB = 112.5), which aren't very strong at all for STAB moves. True, Bullet Punch is weaker than Metal Claw (40 x 1.5 Technican x 1.5 STAB = 90), but it provides better utility than Bullet Punch by having priority to compensate for Scizor's low Speed. Iron Head still outpowers both moves (80 x 1.5 STAB = 120), but it's only useful for Choice Scarf sets, as I already mentioned. Also, if you want a better STAB move that benefits from Technician look no further than Bug Bite (60 x 1.5 Technician x 1.5 STAB = 135).

Scizor was made with wallbreaking or scouting in mind. While it can Baton Pass, this leaves it strapped for moveslots for what it's really supposed to achieve, which are wallbreaking and scouting.

Also, BPing boosts to Mienshao is a bad idea, given that it may be forced to use U-turn to leave the battle, erasing the boosts it received in the first place.
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