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  #76    
Old October 9th, 2012, 01:24 PM
the__end's Avatar
the__end
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by 'alongside collision tiles'. In essence I would agree with you but the current system using .png uses no more resources than that method (if not less - RMXP has to load the entire tileset, whether or not certain tiles are being used, definitely a waste of resources) so it isn't on my list of priorities. When the time is right and user-friendliness is the only thing left, I will think of ditching the .pngs and using tilesets,
hmm depending on the tileset you can use 1 to create 20-30 maps if not more...
so i am sure that a tileset will take much less space then 20 maps would do...
just think about routes...
making all the routes with one tileset is easy...
making all indor maps with one tileset is possible...
making all cities with one tileset would be harder to do if you dont use the same houses in every city...
but well lets say we need 3 tilesets for the cities...
so a game with 100 maps or so would require 5 tilesets...
well it was a pretty rough description...
but it should just show you that tilesets actually save a lot of space...
but i dont care if you have to use png or tilesets if there isnt any differences in performance... :D
i mean it shouldnt lag when changing maps...

and you still didnt explained how autotiles will work...
i mean animated water or flowers...
and of course we need to know how the character sheets should look like...
like in rpg maker or are they different?
how will you manage adding pokemon in the game?
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  #77    
Old October 9th, 2012, 02:00 PM
Alexandre's Avatar
Alexandre
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the__end View Post
hmm depending on the tileset you can use 1 to create 20-30 maps if not more...
so i am sure that a tileset will take much less space then 20 maps would do...
just think about routes...
making all the routes with one tileset is easy...
making all indor maps with one tileset is possible...
making all cities with one tileset would be harder to do if you dont use the same houses in every city...
but well lets say we need 3 tilesets for the cities...
so a game with 100 maps or so would require 5 tilesets...
well it was a pretty rough description...
but it should just show you that tilesets actually save a lot of space...
but i dont care if you have to use png or tilesets if there isnt any differences in performance... :D
i mean it shouldnt lag when changing maps...

and you still didnt explained how autotiles will work...
i mean animated water or flowers...
and of course we need to know how the character sheets should look like...
like in rpg maker or are they different?
how will you manage adding pokemon in the game?
I can't really explain it any differently than I have so I will just say this. DS Game Maker will never have to see the tileset you are using in Tiled or RMXP. It will however, have the same performance as RMXP (or better).

I haven't yet figured out the implementation of autotiles. I'm still thinking of a way similar to RMXP's. Currently, the only way to do it would be to use events which of course will get laggy and consume more resources than necessary. Not to worry though, they will get done!

Here's an example of a character sheet:

RMXP charsheets will work absolutely fine as long as each frame is spaced out correctly and positioned in the order left right up down. But don't worry if they're not in that order. DS Game Maker allows you to rearrange each individual frame once the charset is imported.

For the Pokemon, I will probably nick Poccil's idea of a stand alone program that allows you to add/remove pokemon, trainers etc etc - all that will come in due time. All that's done so far is the map and the teleporting - which by the way still needs a bug kinking out, the screen fades back in before actually teleporting.
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  #78    
Old October 9th, 2012, 10:11 PM
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I looked into ds game maker and I understand your kit is being developed for the software/engine, I dont see how this is a good idea ds Game Maker seems to be very limited even if you buy the pro..also to fully develop a game using your kit they would have to but the pro version and I am not sure if many people would even want to do that.. because lets face it most of the ppl here probably use a pirated version of RMXP unless their parents bought it for them... but what about other game makers for DS? Is there no other solution out there to use?
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  #79    
Old October 10th, 2012, 07:01 AM
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Umbreon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
It will however, have the same performance as RMXP (or better).
What? You are giving it a chance to be the same speed and not going "it will be better than RMXP"? C is MUCH FASTER than ruby (considering ruby was programmed in C) so as for that it HAS TO BE FASTER! (Unless you are planning to add a ton of extra unneeded things into the system which could be erased from the CPU's memory)

With that said, I do like the way charsets are put together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
I haven't yet figured out the implementation of autotiles. I'm still thinking of a way similar to RMXP's. Currently, the only way to do it would be to use events which of course will get laggy and consume more resources than necessary. Not to worry though, they will get done!
The auto tiles (un animated) are just loaded each as different tiles the animated are loaded as animation arrays I believe, either way all auto tiles take tiles 0 - 383 (or 393 not sure anymore) so in this case tile sets are needed instead of map images.
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  #80    
Old October 10th, 2012, 08:56 AM
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I agree that tilesets do seem to be a better method than map images. RMXP has rather severe limitations on what tiles can do (7 autotiles limit, 7 terrain tags limit, 3 tile layers plus events), all of which you can easily improve on, but I think the ability to "define once, map infinitely" is much better and more efficient than requiring 3 picture files per map.

If you're worried about huge tilesets, then you could be inspired by the GBA games, wherein each map has two different small tilesets defined for it to use. You don't need to limit it to just 2 tilesets per map, though; the user could import whichever tilesets/autotiles they want to use on that map. This would also make it much easier to add custom tilesets.

Having images for each map requires that the user create those images. This in turn requires that they place graphics so that they match up to a grid, which many claim to be incapable of (it's like creating a Town Map picture, but hundreds of times over). There would need to be a map creator program which uses tilesets to properly draw maps anyway (half of RMXP is such a program), and if you're creating maps like that, you might as well just use the raw data from that program rather than convert it to three pictures then into usable data.

Space is also an important factor (remember, people need to download these games). One map in Essentials has an RMXP map file which is 28kB in size, which includes the graphics data and all the events in it. A screenshot of that map is 77kB (and you'd need 2 full-size screenshots plus a movement picture in your system, plus events on top of that).

You don't need to be different for the sake of it. It's no coincidence that even the official games use the tileset approach. I severely doubt there would be any noticeable lag caused by drawing maps on the fly during the game - there is none in RMXP, and you claim your system will be better and faster. I don't think tilesets are even that difficult to work with, once you understand what is needed.
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  #81    
Old October 10th, 2012, 09:47 AM
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You have a point Maruno. I'll see if I can work on a system. I don't think it should be too hard as all the hooks exist already in PaLib. I just need to be able to import the map information from Tiled.

Edit:

Just a little update for you guys. I figured out exactly how the backend loads tiles and I got it working with dummy values. I've spent a good 2/3 hours trying to find an XML Parser (Tiled spits out only xml files) that actually compiles for the DS but I had no luck. I've decided to use regular plaintext parsing (i.e searching for specific text and then using that as a reference to cut out the needed data) in order to extract the arrays from the Tiled maps. Then all I have to do is filter the CSV out and I'll have the array imported. Since tiled backgrounds are registered in the same way as image backgrounds, nothing else has to change.

I also updated the preview image in the OP. Running animation is now fixed (hold b to run) and collisions make that characteristic bump noise.

Last edited by Alexandre; October 10th, 2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
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  #82    
Old October 14th, 2012, 05:19 AM
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Rayquaza.
Lead Dev in Pokémon Chaos
 
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How does any of this work? I made a map with tiled, exported it as a PNG, imported it into DSGM as a background but it wouldn't load.
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  #83    
Old October 14th, 2012, 06:21 AM
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You need to set it as a background for the current room. Open the room settings and add that background. PokeDS wont work like that though. There will be a custom action to initialise a room and you select all the properties such as the map.

Guys I'm afraid I'll have to leave the tile mapping till later. I found out PaLib does some optimisation that Tiled doesn't do and hence the tile numbers don't match up.
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  #84    
Old October 17th, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Rafael-animal
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Really PAlib is an old library.
I recommend you to use libnds and programe your own library.
I'm working in a similar project and I'm doing that, if you program your own library you can optimize it for Pokemon Games (;
Sorry for my english.
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  #85    
Old October 21st, 2012, 04:51 AM
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Alexandre
 
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Guys, small update for you. I'm thinking about moving away from DS Game Maker due to horrible limitations with the library and the interface itself. I'm looking towards using a better and maintained library in conjunction with Visual Studio. We'll see how that goes.
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  #86    
Old October 28th, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Update: Been working hard on the message system, reduced it to two simple functions! Prepare text: does what it says on the tin, loads a couple of variables for use in the messageboxes. Pokemon Text: Displays a textbox with the desired text. We also have Yes/No Choice for selection of choices. Couldn't be easier! I have updated the first post with a newer preview. Try talking to the guy in Pallet town.
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  #87    
Old October 28th, 2012, 06:43 PM
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I've always been interested in a DS Pokemon engine myself. This one looks really promising, so I'm looking forward as to where this is going to go. Will you also be implementing FAT functions as well for people using flashcards?
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  #88    
Old October 29th, 2012, 06:06 AM
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Both FAT and NitroFS are automatically supported by the libraries that PokeDS is built upon. NitroFS is a file system that is tagged onto the end of the .nds ROM file therefore allowing you to circumvent the 4mb resource limit. (PokeDS is already nearly 1MB, NitroFS will be very useful). I haven't looked into it but I'm fairly certain we will be able to copy files directly into the NitroFS making things like files lying around on the FAT which may be prone to user modification non-existant. However, the support for loading files from the FAT is definitely there and is easily used.

Looks like I was wrong! NitroFS has no write permissions once it is baked into the ROM.

Last edited by Alexandre; October 29th, 2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
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