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  #201    
Old October 26th, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
You're saying DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) didn't try to change the definition of marriage? 'Cuz if you're arguing that "man + woman = marriage, but man + man =/= marriage" I disagree with your prescriptivist notion of marriage.

At the federal level Obama has already told his people not to defend DOMA which does have an impact on, for instance, married same-sex couples where one is a citizen of the US and one is not. And he's weighed in on the measures (or whatever they're called) in Washington and Maine.

Granted, he could be doing a lot more, but at least he's pushing in the right direction, which his political opponents are not doing.
DOMA defines marriage for federal purposes, but it actually doesn't affect whether or not a same-sex couple can get married in any give state.
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  #202    
Old October 27th, 2012, 07:28 AM
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Anyway... there's a final independent debate to be hosted Tuesday evening in DC between the two major third party candidates, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson, on the issues of foreign policy. I highly doubt it will stick to foreign policy though, seeing as how they have some (though not all) very similar ideas. Not like it really matters, but it should be interesting to see something that doesn't involve more war.

Update: Forgot to do this a couple of days ago, but the debate between those two is actually going to be Monday, November 5, the night before the election.
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  #203    
Old November 4th, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Has anyone heard of the felony Romney was charged with on 11/02/12? I can't find an article about it from a source that I personally trust. This is where I first heard of it, but Google isn't producing many results for actual articles. So I'm assuming it isn't really true/the whole story or just being kept quiet.
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  #204    
Old November 4th, 2012, 07:05 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ite-house.html

Anyway, the only thing I can find relates to SEC filings and his position in Bain Capital.

Edit - Violating Federal Ethics Law, because he 'supposedly' profited from the automotive bailout (To a tune of 15.3 to 113 million dollars) and hid the money in his wife's blind trust account. It's not a official charge, but it was put foward by UAW. CREW is to file a official complaint with the Office of Government Ethics in hopes of having these claims investigated.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/c...get&id=6426757

Edit 2 - And somethings about him improperly training poll watchers in Wisconsin and Iowa.
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  #205    
Old November 4th, 2012, 09:15 PM
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Almost Tuesday! Regardless of the outcome, we can finally put this behind this and move on with our lives :D

On the blind trust thing... I'd have an issue if he were in a position of power at the time that happened, or if had a hand in developing or executing it (the bail-out). Then there would be a conflict of interest. Without question. Should he win, that must change and he should have an approved trust.

But, just as a citizen or an investor, I see no problem with how that went down.
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  #206    
Old November 4th, 2012, 10:49 PM
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The states of Colorado and New Mexico aren't as blue as they seem. Most polling has excluded third party candidates, which is a fatal error. Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson gets double digits in his home state of New Mexico when he is included, and he is polling at 5% in Colorado. His presence is more to Obama's detriment than Romney's, considering that the presence of Colorado's pro-pot initiative is also helping Gary Johnson.

Low turnout in general will hurt Obama. The strong performance of Johnson tells us that those who choose to stay home are likely those who are unhappy with President Obama, but are also not happy with Mitt Romney, and see voting for a third party candidate as a waste. Others who choose to stay home will also likely be somewhat fine with Obama, but no enthusiastic enough about him to wait in long lines. Mitt Romney has more enthusiasm, but that isn't everything.

Low turnout in general is bad for Democrats, but good for Republicans. That's because there are statistically slightly more Democrats than there are Republicans, but Republicans tend to be more principled than Democrats, so are more enthusiastic about voting than Democrats are.

Last edited by FreakyLocz14; November 4th, 2012 at 10:58 PM.
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  #207    
Old November 4th, 2012, 11:31 PM
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In New Mexico, the RCP average reads Obama 51, Romney 41, 8 Others. So Gary would have to almost double his projected results and get all those votes off Obama for Romney to have a chance.

Colorado is a Obama-leaning tossup (Obama +0.6 -not what you'd call a "blue state"), and, according to RCP, the "Others" option is polling at 4.2 so there you have Johnson.

And all the current polls already factor in the probability of the person showing up to vote- that's why in "registered voters" polls, Obama has a +4/+5 extra lead compared to the "likely voters" polls. Which he is also leading. Romney needs all the polls in the country to have consistently underestimated him (or overestimated Obama) to win.
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  #208    
Old November 4th, 2012, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Went View Post
In New Mexico, the RCP average reads Obama 51, Romney 41, 8 Others. So Gary would have to almost double his projected results and get all those votes off Obama for Romney to have a chance.

Colorado is a Obama-leaning tossup (Obama +0.6 -not what you'd call a "blue state"), and, according to RCP, the "Others" option is polling at 4.2 so there you have Johnson.

And all the current polls already factor in the probability of the person showing up to vote- that's why in "registered voters" polls, Obama has a +4/+5 extra lead compared to the "likely voters" polls. Which he is also leading. Romney needs all the polls in the country to have consistently underestimated him (or overestimated Obama) to win.
"Other" is not the same as naming the third party candidates. Because these candidates will appear on the ballot, they should be included in polls. Gary Johnson has been as high as 13% in his home state when he is named.

The Green Party also has a candidate who is on the ballot in enough states to theoretically win the election, as does the Constitution Party.

Also, more people say that they're going to vote third party than actually do. They end up feeling that its not worth waiting in line to cast a purely symbolic vote.
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  #209    
Old November 4th, 2012, 11:44 PM
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The Alburquerque Journal, Public Opinion Strategies, Research & Polling, Fairbank Maslin and WeAskAmerica polls in NM specifically include Gary Johnson. All of them give Obama something close to a +10 point lead.
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  #210    
Old November 4th, 2012, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Went View Post
The Alburquerque Journal, Public Opinion Strategies, Research & Polling, Fairbank Maslin and WeAskAmerica polls in NM specifically include Gary Johnson. All of them give Obama something close to a +10 point lead.
Public Policy Polling found him at 13%. They also found that most of his support comes from would-be Obama voters. The poll is dated, but he still has a reasonable shot at a double-digit finish in New Mexico if he's getting 8% with a +/- 4% margin of error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public Policy Polling
He gets 24% of the independent vote, and a lot of his support is coming from more Democratic leaning independents.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/m...declining.html

Recently, CNN has Johnson polling at 5% in Ohio, and at 4% in Colorado. They also found that Johnson is taking away Democratic-leaning independents instead of Republican-leaning ones. If this is true, then Colorado looks realistic for Romney if Obama is only up by 1% when Johnson is not included.
http://newmexico.watchdog.org/16467/...ma-more-in-co/
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  #211    
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:07 AM
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I really worry about what will happen with the world if Mitt Romney wins the election. US-UK relations could be really damaged, Obama restored a strong relationship between us and holds many similar ideals to the current government and people.
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  #212    
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:22 AM
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You know that there are a lot of election shenanigans when the UN sends in elections monitors.

If Obama wins this election it will be in spite of all the attempts at purging legitimate voters from the rolls, "loosing" absentee ballots, buggy software at polling places, super long lines, closing polling sites with people still in line to vote, fake robocalls with incorrect voting information (vote November 7th, y'all), intimidating billboards in poor neighborhoods telling you it's a crime to commit voter fraud, heavy-handed ID laws, extra restrictions on new voter registration, and I'm sure a bunch of other things I'm forgetting at the moment.

Dang. Republicans really meant it when they said their one goal was to see Obama be a one-term president.
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  #213    
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:28 AM
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I'm just glad for tomorrow to be over soon. I like politics but I prefer politics when the people that are talking about them actually care about them. Too many people that want to talk politics around election time and haven't actually done any research. >_o
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  #214    
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
I'm just glad for tomorrow to be over soon. I like politics but I prefer politics when the people that are talking about them actually care about them. Too many people that want to talk politics around election time and haven't actually done any research. >_o
Ugh, my life in a nutshell right here. To be a political science student in an election year is hellish to say the least.
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  #215    
Old November 5th, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Aw. I'm actually excited and I don't know what I'll do when I'm bored at job from Thursday on when I won't have any reasons left to refresh RealClearPolitics, FiveThirtyEight and the HuffPost like a madman and have fun reading trollfights all over. At least, save for a gigantic surprise, Obama looks en route to 303 EV's, so that's something less to be worried about.
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  #216    
Old November 5th, 2012, 03:57 PM
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It looks like the election hangs on one thing: Ohio!

If Romney wins Ohio, then Obama's chances look dim. Let's give him the tossups where he is leading: Nevada, Colorado, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Iowa (also note that only in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan is he leading by more than the margin of error).

Romney has Indiana and Missouri solidly in his column, has a significant lead now in North Carolina, and is tied with Obama in the traditionally red state of Virginia and the swing states of New Hampshire and Florida, so we'll Virginia. See as how Obama only won these state by a slim margin due to high turnout among minorities in 2008, let's give those states to Romney this time.

This all means that if Romney wins Ohio, then Obama has to win either Virginia or Florida to win, and the latest polls out of those states show that they're true tossups, but given that they've trended Republican for the past 10 years, Obama will have a tall mountain the climb.

It all hangs on Ohio!
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  #217    
Old November 5th, 2012, 06:14 PM
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the last presidential debate is on http://www.youtube.com/RTAmerica discuss and watch
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  #218    
Old November 5th, 2012, 06:24 PM
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Yeah.... the debate was well over a week and half ago, and it's political discussion, which we have this super thread for in the first place. It goes here.

Also, for the record, it's Libertarian, not Liberaltarian. XD
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  #219    
Old November 5th, 2012, 06:27 PM
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i cant spell and their the FINAL debate is on live not the last debate with democrat and rebulicans
and it is officially over as of 10:30 eastern time
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  #220    
Old November 5th, 2012, 09:30 PM
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We're talking a lot about the Presidential race, but control of Congress will also be determined tomorrow night.

It looks like the Republicans will keep the House, but the Senate is unpredictable. While the Republicans looked set to take back the Senate a year ago, a number of gaffes by GOP Senatorial candidates has renewed hope for the Democrats. A 50-50 Senate is likely. Add the fact that Maine will likely elect a Senator who is not a Democrat or a Republican, and things get even more unpredictable.
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  #221    
Old November 5th, 2012, 09:42 PM
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I have been getting tired of this election season and can't wait for it to be over, but at the same time worry about the outcome.
What good has Obama done to America, other than:
  • Cause food and energy prices to skyrocket, doing nothing to combat the rampant speculation on the commodity exchanges like he said he would do during his 2008 campaign?
  • Enact a health insurance mandate that is really about helping boost insurance company profits?
  • Ram through a financial "reform" package that is so watered-down, that it escalated, rather than abated, Wall Street greed and recklessness, and allowed our already too-large megabanks to get even larger, when such institutions should have been broken up, like Ma Bell was in '83?
  • Continued our utterly ridiculous open-borders policy that allows illegal immigrants and terrorists to enter our country unabated?
  • Passed even more unfair NAFTA-style trade agreements, even though he said he opposed them during his 2008 campaign?
  • Threatened huge tax increases on the middle class and poor with schemes such as Cap-and-Trade and his strangulation of the energy industry, while still allowing mega-corporations like Verizon to spin off parts of their operations without paying any taxes? (I was one of the millions of Verizon rural landline customers divested to Frontier Communications using tax-dodging techniques, and I'm sure those of you in Northern New England know how a similar deal with FairPoint turned out.)
  • Continue Bush's warmongering, despite promising to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?
What will Mitt Romney do to make things better?
On the first question, I have expected many of the things I listed above to happen under Obama the moment he was elected. On the second, Mitt likely won't be that much different from Obama-I expect he may continue many of Obama's policies, just as Obama continued (and escalated) many of Bush's policies.

Most of the campaign advertising on broadcast outlets in Michigan have been over the six statewide proposals, five of which are to amend the state Constitution. The official ballot language and my commentaries for each are included in the spoiler (which I used to reduce the post length).

Here's how I plan on voting, aside from the Presidency and U.S. Senate for Michigan:
Spoiler:
Congressional House (MI-10):
Candice Miller (R-Harrison Twp.) (incumbent)

State Representative (District 82):
Kevin Daley (R-Lum) (incumbent)

State Board of Education:
Todd Courser (R-Silverwood)
Karen Adams (T-Lake Odessa)
I know both of these candidates are long-shot, due to their positions, but both candidates are opposed to Obama's globalist-oriented, power-consolidating Common Core Standards federal curriculum mandates (which I also absolutely loathe). In addition, Courser is Tea Party-supported and is pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-Second Amendment, pro-expanded school choice, and pro-homeschooling.

University of Michigan Regents, Michigan State University Trustees, Wayne State University Governors:
Abstain, I usually don't vote on these offices anyway.

Lapeer County Prosecutor:
Byron Konschuh (R) (incumbent) (unopposed)

Lapeer County Sheriff:
Jeff Fick (D) – Incumbent Ron Kalanquin (R) has been in office for 32 years, being elected for the first time in 1980 (when Ronald Reagan was elected President for the first time), which is too long for any elected office, IMO. Besides, during the primary campaign, where Kalanquin faced Mike Gepfrey, some dirt was dug on both the Republican Primary candidates. Had Gepfrey won the primary, I probably would be voting for him. I have not heard much from Kalanquin's campaign since the primary, and Fick has been running a pretty decent campaign.

County Clerk:
Theresa M. Spencer (R) (unopposed)

County Treasurer:
Dana Miller (R) (unopposed)

Register of Deeds:
Melissa DeVaugh (R) (unopposed)

Road Commissioner:
Gary Howell (R) (unopposed)

Drain Commissioner:
Joe Suma (R) (unopposed)

Surveyor:
Ray Davis (R) (unopposed)

County Commissioner - District 1:
Cheryl Clark (D) (incumbent)

Marathon Township Supervisor
Dale A. Fuller (I)

Marathon Township Clerk
Dawn Johnson (D) (incumbent) (unopposed)

Township Treasurer
Pam Jaksa (I)

Township Trustees:
Jim Chaffer (D) (incumbent)

Michigan Supreme Court:
Kerry Morgan
Bob Roddis

Michigan Supreme Court - Partial Term ending Jan. 1, 2015:
Mindy Barry

Court of Appeals District 4 (full term and partial term ending Jan 1, 2015) and Probate Court:
Abstain

LakeVille Community Schools Board of Education:
Chad Carriero
Holly Selesky (two positions, both incumbent and unopposed)

Quote:
PROPOSAL 1 - A REFERENDUM ON PUBLIC ACT 4 OF 2011 - THE EMERGENCY MANAGER LAW
Public Act 4 of 2011 would:
Establish criteria to assess the financial condition of local government units, including school districts.

Authorize Governor to appoint an emergency manager (EM) upon state finding of a financial emergency, and allow the EM to act in place of local government officials.

Require EM to develop financial and operating plans, which may include modification or termination of contracts, reorganization of government, and determination of expenditures, services, and use of assets until the emergency is resolved.

Alternatively, authorize state-appointed review team to enter into a local government approved consent decree.

Should this law be approved?
No - While I have read accounts saying that Gov. Snyder's EM law is better than Chapter 9 Bankruptcy, I understand that most people do not like how it takes away local control, and is so far-reaching. A no vote in this case would reinstate the previous Emergency Manager law enacted under Jim Blanchard's governorship.

Quote:
PROPOSAL 2 – A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION REGARDING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

This proposal would:

Grant public and private employees the constitutional right to organize and bargain collectively through labor unions.

Invalidate existing or future state or local laws that limit the ability to join unions and bargain collectively, and to negotiate and enforce collective bargaining agreements, including employees' financial support of their labor unions. Laws may be enacted to prohibit public employees from striking.

Override state laws that regulate hours and conditions of employment to the extent that those laws conflict with collective bargaining agreements.

Define “employer” as a person or entity employing one or more employees.

Should this proposal be approved?
No - This is a power grab by Big Labor to force their agenda into the State Constitution for all eternity. Not only would many laws that regulate labor conditions be overturned, it would give Big Labor unions veto power over virtually all legislation moved through Lansing. It would also ban attempts to make Michigan a Right-To-Work state (which would prohibit forced union membership as a condition of employment). This proposal is being backed by an extensive ad campaign called "Protect Working Families", which claims that this proposal is about protecting ordinary Americans' jobs and wages, including those working in factories, when this proposal will really help government employee unions more than anything (private sector unions are already governed by the federal National Labor Relations Act.)

Quote:
PROPOSAL 3 – A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION TO ESTABLISH A STANDARD FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY

This proposal would:

Require electric utilities to provide at least 25% of their annual retail sales of electricity from renewable energy sources, which are wind, solar, biomass, and hydropower, by 2025.

Limit to not more than 1% per year electric utility rate increases charged to consumers only to achieve compliance with the renewable energy standard.

Allow annual extensions of the deadline to meet the 25% standard in order to prevent rate increases over the 1% limit.

Require the legislature to enact additional laws to encourage the use of Michigan made equipment and employment of Michigan residents.

Should this proposal be approved?
HELL NO - Sure, a tougher renewable energy standard sounds good on paper, but the wind doesn't always blow, and the sun doesn't always shine. This is another attempt by the radical environmental lobby to blame global warming on human activity and force “sustainable development” (such as the sovereignty-destroying United Nations Agenda 21) on the general populace. Such efforts are best left to statutory law, not the Constitution. Michigan's big two electric utilities, Detroit Edison and Consumers Energy, are also opposed to this amendment. While many other states have passed renewable energy mandates with similar teeth, none of them are locked into their state constitutions.

Quote:
PROPOSAL 4 – A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION TO ESTABLISH THE MICHIGAN QUALITY HOME CARE COUNCIL AND PROVIDE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING FOR IN-HOME CARE WORKERS

This proposal would:

Allow in-home care workers to bargain collectively with the Michigan Quality Home Care Council (MQHCC). Continue the current exclusive representative of in-home care workers until modified in accordance with labor laws.

Require MQHCC to provide training for in-home care workers, create a registry of workers who pass background checks, and provide financial services to patients to manage the cost of in-home care.

Preserve patients' rights to hire in-home care workers who are not referred from the MQHCC registry who are bargaining unit members.

Authorize the MQHCC to set minimum compensation standards and terms and conditions of employment.

Should this proposal be approved?
HELL NO - From what I have read, the Michigan Home Health Care program being proposed by this amendment already exists for the most part in state statutory law. Despite a barrage of TV ads from elderly home care patients endorsing this proposal in the name of "safe, quality, affordable home care", this is merely a scheme by the Service Employees International Union to permanently enshrine in the state Constitution their withholding of dues from Medicaid stipends given by the state to home health care workers, many of who are taking care of family members. This scheme was concocted by former Governor Jennifer Granholm, and since this scheme was first implemented, the SEIU has skimmed over $32.7 million from home care providers, about $3 million of that since state Attorney General Bill Schuette ordered the scheme to stop (upholding a law passed by the state Legislature and signed by Gov. Snyder that strips home care workers of their classification as government employees) back in late May. Even many SEIU Healthcare members who work in hospitals and other healthcare facilities are critical of this scheme, saying that home health workers don't get the same benefits that facility workers do.

Quote:
PROPOSAL 5 – A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION TO LIMIT THE ENACTMENT OF NEW TAXES BY STATE GOVERNMENT

This proposal would:

Require a 2/3 majority vote of the State House and the State Senate, or a statewide vote of the people at a November election, in order for the State of Michigan to impose new or additional taxes on taxpayers or expand the base of taxation or increasing the rate of taxation.

This section shall in now way be considered to limit or modify tax limitations otherwise created in this Constitution.

Should this proposal be approved?
No - While this sounds good on paper, from what I have read, other states that have similar super-majority requirements for tax increases are already in serious financial trouble. It would cause gridlock among state legislators when debating ways to bring in additional revenue in times of need, which would ultimately lead to increasing state fees and fines. This proposal is mostly backed by billionaire (slumlord) Ambassador Bridge owner Matty Moroun, who owns many heavily blighted and vandalized properties in the city of Detroit, including the historic Michigan Central Railroad Station. Just ask the 1.8 million 700,000 people remaining in Detroit about Mr. Moroun and see what they have to say :p .

Quote:
PROPOSAL 6 – A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION REGARDING CONSTRUCTION OF INTERNATIONAL BRIDGES AND TUNNELS

This proposal would:

Require the approval of a majority of voters at a statewide election and in each municipality where “new international bridges or tunnels for motor vehicles” are to be located before the State of Michigan may expend state funds or resources for acquiring land, designing, soliciting bids for, construction, financing, or promoting new international bridges or tunnels.

Create a definition of “new international bridges or tunnels for motor vehicles” that means “any bridge or tunnel which is not open to the public and serving traffic as of January 1, 2012.”

Should this proposal be approved?
No - This is another proposal backed by Matty Moroun, who is seeking to block construction of a new government-proposed bridge between Detroit and Windsor that would break his monopoly on truck traffic crossing between those two cities via his aforementioned Ambassador Bridge (the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel is too small to accommodate commercial freight). This proposal is backed by an extensive ad campaign, with one ad claiming "How can they tell us there's no money for education and schools, but there's money for a bridge?" An agreement between the State of Michigan and the Canadian government puts Canada on hook for the entire bridge project targeted by this proposal. Other ramifications of passing this proposal could show up much later, including the possibility that, if a terrorist attack takes out an existing border-crossing bridge, voters will have to approve construction of a replacement bridge. The Michigan Truth Squad, a blog that analyzes political advertising in Michigan, has called foul on the vast majority of the pro-6 ads.

Lapeer County Department of Veterans Affairs Millage Proposal:
No
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Last edited by Otter Mii-kun; November 5th, 2012 at 10:19 PM.
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  #222    
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:01 PM
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FreakyLocz14
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THE FIRST ELECTION RETURNS ARE IN!!!

Dixville Noth, New Hampshire
Barack Obama: 5 votes
Mitt Romney: 5 votes

I'm still looking to see if there's any news out of Hart's Location, yet.

UPDATE:
Hart's Location, New Hampshire
Barack Obama: 23 votes
Mitt Romney: 9 votes
Gary Johnson: 2 votes

Last edited by FreakyLocz14; November 5th, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
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  #223    
Old November 6th, 2012, 05:58 AM
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TRIFORCE89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
We're talking a lot about the Presidential race, but control of Congress will also be determined tomorrow night.

It looks like the Republicans will keep the House, but the Senate is unpredictable. While the Republicans looked set to take back the Senate a year ago, a number of gaffes by GOP Senatorial candidates has renewed hope for the Democrats. A 50-50 Senate is likely. Add the fact that Maine will likely elect a Senator who is not a Democrat or a Republican, and things get even more unpredictable.
In that case, should Obama win, looks like nothing will be accomplished.

Similarly in the unlikely reverse of Romney win but Democrat controlled House and Senate. The Democrats have pledged similarly.

You win everything or nothing happens. They should all lose their jobs
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  #224    
Old November 6th, 2012, 09:49 AM
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I went and voted about an hour ago at my local voting place in town. I mentioned in an earlier post that I registered to vote for this year's election. I gave my vote to Obama-Biden since my Mom would kill me if I voted for Romney, whom she hates with a passion.

We also had a major Senate race in my state with Scott Brown and Elizabeth Warren. I went for Scott Brown because unlike Warren, he would compromise with the other side on things.

In all fairness, if Obama or Romney win, they'll never get anything done if the House and Senate remain where they are. Status Quo election.
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  #225    
Old November 6th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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I voted straight democrat in Wisconsin. I know Romney isn't a traditional Republican and rarely catered to the religious right, however, the fact he catered at all while the evangelicals ignored the fact he's Mormon and largely socially liberal is disheartening. I support gay marriage, equal rights for women, and socialized healthcare (we need to stop acting like a third world country), Obama got my vote
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