Never say never... except when describing NeverUsed! [NU Discussion] (PotF #2 posted)

[Forever]

Originally Posted by RandomTrainerWhoCould

HOLY ****!!!!
Snover dropped to NU? When did he tiers shift I didn't even notice. Omg this is news, be prepared to see more blizzard spammers and walreins. The hayday of hail is back for glacéon, and it can now spam its notorious blizzards :]

Uhhh well it was unbanned, so it wasn't tier shifts, they're happening next month altho may be in February for some reason icr from reading in the thread. I'm not sure I'm really a fan of Hail in NU considering everyone will use it and it'll become like OU, or just get banned. :3

[Zeffy]

I remember using Stallrein back in DPP OU and it was a bomb. I even won against Vrai with the team! >:D

[Wolflare]

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you folks be interested in holding some sort of "Pokémon of the Week" in here? Basically, one Pokémon is (randomly?) picked every week and everyone is given the task to try and use it. This thread can be used for discussing strategies and interesting moments regarding it, since people claim that there's nothing to talk about.

If you support the idea and don't have much to add, just "like" this post.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Wolflare

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you folks be interested in holding some sort of "Pokémon of the Week" in here? Basically, one Pokémon is (randomly?) picked every week and everyone is given the task to try and use it. This thread can be used for discussing strategies and interesting moments regarding it, since people claim that there's nothing to talk about.

y :)

I don't see why people would be against that I shall rally people up to reply (like the totally-not-annoying person I am!)

[Archer]

Originally Posted by Wolflare

I don't mean to interrupt, but would you folks be interested in holding some sort of "Pokémon of the Week" in here? Basically, one Pokémon is (randomly?) picked every week and everyone is given the task to try and use it. This thread can be used for discussing strategies and interesting moments regarding it, since people claim that there's nothing to talk about.

If you support the idea and don't have much to add, just "like" this post.

I think it's a great idea. I'm often lost as to what I should use or structure my team around, so this could be excellent motivation.

Whatever it is could be randomly chosen from the bottom half of the NU usage list. Ditching stupid pokemon is probably a good idea, though. We don't want to be using Ledian, Plusle or Luvidisc - let's be honest. Maybe knock off the bottom xx%?

I think you should start this ASAP.

Also, if Snover is now NU, I can see Rotom-F getting very popular.

[Zeffy]

This sounds sort of like Smogon's research thingie, wherein people chooses somewhat viable Pokemon and have the participants test the Pokemon with their own sets and see how it would fare in the metagame. It sounds fun really and I'm all up for it. Let's do Snover! xD

[Archer]

Originally Posted by Zeffy

This sounds sort of like Smogon's research thingie, wherein people chooses somewhat viable Pokemon and have the participants test the Pokemon with their own sets and see how it would fare in the metagame. It sounds fun really and I'm all up for it. Let's do Snover! xD

I think Snover's going to get a lot of attention as it is - no point. Was thinking mre along the lines of Torterra, Swanna, Magmar. That sort of thing.

Edit: the more versatile and open to interpretation, the better.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Zeffy

This sounds sort of like Smogon's research thingie, wherein people chooses somewhat viable Pokemon and have the participants test the Pokemon with their own sets and see how it would fare in the metagame. It sounds fun really and I'm all up for it. Let's do Snover! xD

Originally Posted by Archer

I think it's a great idea. I'm often lost as to what I should use or structure my team around, so this could be excellent motivation.

Whatever it is could be randomly chosen from the bottom half of the NU usage list. Ditching stupid pokemon is probably a good idea, though. We don't want to be using Ledian, Plusle or Luvidisc - let's be honest. Maybe knock off the bottom xx%?

I think you should start this ASAP.

Also, if Snover is now NU, I can see Rotom-F getting very popular.

Originally Posted by Archer

I think Snover's going to get a lot of attention as it is - no point. Was thinking mre along the lines of Torterra, Swanna, Magmar. That sort of thing.

I think we're better off going with a good Pokemon first, rather than a PU mon. ;( Mainly because we're trying to get more people to play NU and they're not going to play it if you're making teams around Pokemon that see very little use in the current metagame. Top 50, maybe.

[Zeffy]

Mold Breaker Sawk was already released right? How did it affect the metagame thus far? I haven't really been updated lately.

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Originally Posted by Zeffy

Mold Breaker Sawk was already released right? How did it affect the metagame thus far? I haven't really been updated lately.

Almost all the people would agree that sturdy is a far superior ability, so it doesn't really "affect" the metagame at all lol.

Spoiler:

Know what does though? My stabless flareon :]

[Forever]

Ummm...

Woohoo, are you forgetting about Snover? Sturdy has no use whatsoever, as Hail exists. SR is on almost every team and Mold Breaker can allow it to hit out things like Weezing which it otherwise can't, defeat Sturdy leads, etc...

It's -very- beneficial. ;(

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Even with Snover running around and summoning perma hail, sturdy is still a GREAT ability. You still get to live a hit from something that would normally OHKO a mold breaker sawk(like scarfed glacéon going for blizzard). Besides, the only benefits of mold breaker that I could think of is to OHKO bastiodon and probopass through sturdy and hit levitate pokes with eq. And while those benefits are nice, if you have proper team support(rocks and a good check to weezing and misdreavus), you can forgo mold breaker and put on the much better(IMO) ability in sturdy and fire off some powerful close combats and don't care about the defense drops that much.

[Keiran777]

Not only does it bypass Levitate and Sturdy, but also Thick Fat; something you will see a lot with the advent of Snow Warning. Thick Fat isn't a major issue if you aren't running Ice/Fire Punch as coverage moves, but if you are being able to bypass it makes Sawk a much larger threat to Pokemon who think they can switch in and take the hit easily.

It also ignores Snow Cloak, but that was banned a while ago. Dodrio abusing Tangled Feet with Thrash isn't very common, but it can be a problem if you are unlucky.

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

The only usable thick fat pokes in NU are grumpig, miltank, and walrein(lol stallrein). Those pokes will NOT appreciate a close combat AT ALL. In fact, with a band slapped on, close combat ohkos miltank and walrein 100%, while grumpig(a really underrated special wall IMO) is 2hkod after rocks. As for the tangled feet dodrio, that set isn't used much at all, but dodrio naturally out speeds and ohkos mold breaker sawk. Sturdy Sawk lives the brave bird thanks to, well, sturdy and ohkos dodrio in return after the BB recoil. While mold breaker definitely has a niche, I still prefer sturdy vastly

[Keiran777]

What I'm saying is that you're a lot less predictable and safe to switch into. Choice banded Sturdy Sawk is very easy to play around, especially since Sturdy will most likely always be broken before it can be abused.

With a combination of Mold Breaker/Expert Belt, I consistently snag 2 early KOs by feigning a choice set.

IDK just feels like Sturdy Sawk gets less useful with each new change brought into NU. Hail will definitely be used a lot, no doubt.

[Forever]

Yeah like, SR and Hail... you need a lot of support to make Sturdy the "superior" ability, whereas Mold Breaker works right off the bat.

As for the Thick Fat comment, yeah it's a little irrelevant given Sawk won't be using Ice Punch against them. :( However really, unless you want to dedicate the whole team to supporting Sawk keeping Sturdy in-tact (meaning you'll need something with Rain Dance or Sunny Day, as well, to prevent ~hail~), and a reliable spinner then things to counter those other mons etc, while Mold Breaker can take out those that are setting up SR anyway (because yes, some people do leave them in lol) and allow your other Pokemon to ~shine~ such as Scarfed Rotom-F, Swellow, Articuno... etc. As well as this, it can also hit Eelektross, the Pokemon that can avoid being hurt by SE anything, and can abuse its Ground-type weakness. Seems p good to me, without needing four other slots dedicated to making Sturdy the "superior" ability. ;(

[shnen2]

Firstly to Keiran777, you do realise cc does more to every single thick fat pokemon in the game (let alone NU) than ice punch / fire punch?

Anyway Probopass/Bastiodon/golem aren't going to be staying in on sawk now that it has mold breaker so meh, and weezing's use will decline even more so that's not particularly relevant either. Carracosta is legit but do people still use the bulky solid rock set and do they stay in on Sawk with it? If so that counts. It still doesn't do enough to Missy with eq anyway, and kills Haunter regardless.

for eel: 252Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk (+Atk) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Eelektross (Neutral): 101% - 118% (378 - 445 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

so yeah I can't see anything that justifies it being better than sturdy, although sturdy is admittedly not too useful either

both are equal I guess

[Forever]

Pokemon of the Fortnight (12/12/12 - 26/12/12)



So as mentioned earlier, there will be a Pokemon of the ________. We agreed on fortnight due to allowing enough time to fully get into a Pokemon. What does this mean, you ask? Well, you make teams using the Pokemon and discuss about its benefits, use different sets etc. Due to hail being allowed in NU, and the fact that Comm Day is changed around a little, Glaceon fits in well. This Pokemon will also be compulsory to be used in a special Comm Day tourney. You can read about that in the Comm Day thread. As for now, get discussing/experimenting!

(You can continue the Sawk discussion but feel free to discuss the PotF in here and get to know its benefits, etc).

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

I agree with shnen completely

Sawk's main jobs(IMO) is to either punch holes through the other team's core(band) or clean up weakened teams(scarf). Mold breaker could work on a band set as weezing is 2hko'd by earthquake(after rocks) and misdreavus is severely damaged by EQ also. Scarfed sets greatly appreciates sturdy, as it allows sawk to live a priority after defense drops. It requires a bit of team support, but scarfed sawk is one of the best late gamers. You don't really HAVE to have a counter to weezing or misdreavus, as strong hits and rocks will wear them down over time to a point where stone miss/close combat kos.
Sawk is really predictable regardless of ability, and most teams usually pack at least one solid counter to fighting types, so you must've been playing against some really bad players if your expert belt mold breaker sawk got two kills right off the bat, and even worse players if they stayed in with their probopass/bastiodon. 
But with hail back in NU, I guess sturdy sawk has lost some usefulness. Still, not all teams run Snover, and sturdy sawk is(again) one of the best late game cleaners.

[Jake♫]

I feel like the one thing that people don't expect (and as you wrote off as extremely rare on the OP) was setting hazards. Yes, from the very little experience I have full-on stall doesn't appear like it's going to work well in NU. However, laying down SR (duh) and Spikes as a way to reduce switching from the opponent, limit spamming Volt Switch/U-Turn, and just help net extra KOs is really underrated. Honestly, Cacturne is extremely cute useful for setting down hazards. Helps with pesky Psychic types via Sucker Punch, Water Absorb is extremely helpful (especially since Sand Veil is banned grrrr), and it's just rather strong in general.

Plus on top of that, the majority of NU spinners are extremely entry hazard weak themselves (re: Armaldo), and even that one turn is going to hurt them from switching in. Spin blocking is entirely possible too, so it's not like hazards are useless. Just my two cents though =x

[Forever]

Cacturne is also extremely frail and poison types are everywhere in NU, and even Amoonguss can OHKO it (iirc), so while it has all that, there's a lot of negatives and a lot of things that can easily beat it. There's also a lot of part-flying types, hail is around now so expect Blizzard spam, and even psychic types can sub then Signal Beam and Cacturne is like "ononokusu" (except it isn't in that tier but W/E).

I'd say the best hazard setter (w/ spikes at least, that is) is Garbodor due to its defenses, speed, access to tspikes and spikes and can do well against a lot of opponents.

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

There're no "best" entry hazard setter because it all depends on if it fits your team well. Offensively, I prefer cacturne and glalie. Yes, glalie. Glalie is a very underrated poke, and with access to explosion and blizzard as well as spikes, glalie is a very good "suicide" hazard setter that can also fire off some blizzards.

Defensively speaking, garbordor is the premier hazard setter, due to its decent defenses, access to a plethora of support moves(including spikes and t-spikes), and okay poison typing. Some other nfe spikers can also work, but they're mostly outclassed by Garbo.

An interesting aspect about hazards in NU is that almost nobody uses a spinner(cough ANGRY SNOWFLAKE cough) because all of them are terrible and have no recovery(outside of the "nerfed" rest). The most popular spinner, armaldo, is weak to Sr and is affected by spikes and tspikes. With a couple of good predictions and forcing it out, you won't need a spinblocker because most STAB attacks can ko it after two switch ins to sr.
So yeah, go hazards :]

[Forever]

I wanted to share that I tried to use Cacturne for a bit the other day. It let me down completely. ;( It dies after like one hit p much and it's not even a safe switch in to psychic types, unlike Skuntank which can usually take one or two Signal Beams (typing, but still!) Plus it can't even use Night Slash (iirc??) unlike Absol and has to rely on the opponents attacking. Honestly I don't really like it.

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Originally Posted by Forever

I wanted to share that I tried to use Cacturne for a bit the other day. It let me down completely. ;( It dies after like one hit p much and it's not even a safe switch in to psychic types, unlike Skuntank which can usually take one or two Signal Beams (typing, but still!) Plus it can't even use Night Slash (iirc??) unlike Absol and has to rely on the opponents attacking. Honestly I don't really like it.

lol. And that will be the entire message

Cacturne is a "high risk- high reward poke". Its offensive stats are unrivaled, but its bulk is ****. You need to predict and get it in on a double or get it in after something died. It can't take hits for crap(even against psychics), but if you do manage to get it in safely, and you are good at predicting, then IT WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. You can also lead w/ it because it makes an excellent check to lead golems because of bullet seed. Treat it as something like Deoxys-Attack(except cacturne's bulk is not that terrible). It's meant to be an OFFENSIVE spiker, but if you want a DEFENSIVE spiker, use Garbordor

[Red_Star_Chris]

I personally don't call these Pokemon NU (Neverused). I think NOU (Not Often Used) suits them better. Don't you agree?