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  #1    
Old December 14th, 2012, 09:58 AM
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There's been a shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut in the US northeast.

Some reports say up to 20 have been shot. Others say perhaps 10 children are dead.

This is awful. Why do we let this happen? Why don't we talk about gun control?

[click here to read more] [or click here] [or just go to any news source]


Edit: Watching the news on TV right now. MSNBC is saying it's been told that there are 24 killed, 17 of them children.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 10:24 AM
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How many more incidents like this to we need before gun control gets a serious look at from our law makers?
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  #3    
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:43 AM
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How many more incidents like this to we need before gun control gets a serious look at from our law makers?
Hopefully this is it. While some may argue "they'll always find a way to kill people", preventing some incidents is better than none.

Lately our government is trying its darndest to get rid of our first amendment rights, why not the second?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 10:48 AM
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This breaks my heart in so many ways. And even for those not killed, this is so traumatic, especially for children that might have witnessed their best friend being shot. A big kicker for me is that this was in an elementary school. It's just awful. What kind of...thing could do that? That's not a human. Not by my standards, anyway.

I'm literally almost in tears now, so I just...can't. I just don't know what to think about all this. It's terrifying. I'll have children someday, I'll have students of my own someday, and in an elementary school like this one most likely. I just can't imagine how these families and teachers must be feeling, and so close to Christmas. Just...disgusting.
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  #5    
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Gun control won't do anything. If you're in a situation like this, you'd rather have a civilian armed and protect you than wait for police.

Statistically speaking, if a civilian (or in this case teacher, imo they should be armed) is at the scene, then fatalities average 2. With nobody armed, fatalities average 18.

Only in an ideal world there would be no weapons. In a realistic world, that's not going to happen.

It's a bitter truth that makes me angry, especially in situations like these. Most of the victims were kindergartners and latest news upped the death toll to 27, 18 of which being children. I don't understand what motive the man could have had for doing this, that sick bastard.

Apparently there's a second shooter in custody, but it's not confirmed. There's also a rumor that in a nearby home of the school, a woman's body was found and news is speculating it was the shooter's mother.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 10:57 AM
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i'm watching the news and this is ridiculous. it says now that 27 have been shot and killed. this is so sad especially these children being so young that they possibly don't know what's going on. my prayers are out there for everyone~
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  #7    
Old December 14th, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Christ, this is terrible. I'm watching the news on the TV right now and it's all that's being shown and... yeah. I have no idea what to say here.

Other than two words: "gun control". This isn't the first time something like this has happened relatively recently and both incidents could have been avoided with proper gun control.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
Gun control won't do anything. If you're in a situation like this, you'd rather have a civilian armed and protect you than wait for police.

Statistically speaking, if a civilian (or in this case teacher, imo they should be armed) is at the scene, then fatalities average 2. With nobody armed, fatalities average 18.

Only in an ideal world there would be no weapons. In a realistic world, that's not going to happen.

It's a bitter truth that makes me angry, especially in situations like these. Most of the victims were kindergartners and latest news upped the death toll to 27, 18 of which being children. I don't understand what motive the man could have had for doing this, that sick bastard.

Apparently there's a second shooter in custody, but it's not confirmed.
The deal is, people will always do bad things, but it is best to tell them then that it's not allowed.
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  #9    
Old December 14th, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Razor Leaf View Post
Other than two words: "gun control". This isn't the first time something like this has happened relatively recently and both incidents could have been avoided with proper gun control.
I'm not so sure about that, a desperate person will go through whatever means necessary. Heavier gun control or not, there's always going to be illegal gun activity. If someone wants will to kill so many small children, something like procuring a gun legally isn't very likely to stop them. If someone's just angry? Yeah, then it'll do some good, but if you're as far gone as seeing nothing wrong with killing so many children, you'll find a way.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by droomph View Post
The deal is, people will always do bad things, but it is best to tell them then that it's not allowed.
But the issue is do you think someone with the capability to do this is going to be hindered by something like a gun law? There are many ways people can get access to guns, even with more gun control.

Ryoutarou beat me to it lol, exactly the point I'm making.
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  #11    
Old December 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryoutarou View Post
I'm not so sure about that, a desperate person will go through whatever means necessary. Heavier gun control or not, there's also going to be illegal gun activity. If someone was will to kill so many small children, something like procuring a gun legally isn't very likely to stop them.
Oh, there will be some incidents in a country so large certainly, but the lack of gun control is just asking for it. I don't have any actual figures to hand so don't hold me to this and feel free to prove me wrong, but the frequency of crimes related to fire arms is much higher in countries without proper gun control from what I've seen... unsurprisingly. We can't stop incidents like this but we can definitely make them less likely to happen.

I just don't see why anyone should be legally given the ability to do something like this. It's absolutely senseless.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
But the issue is do you think someone with the capability to do this is going to be hindered by something like a gun law? There are many ways people can get access to guns, even with more gun control.

Ryoutarou beat me to it lol, exactly the point I'm making.
There are many ways people can commit mass murders, sure. But why are we forcing everyone to take off their shoes at an airport after a single person made a shoe-bomb, and not even attempting to keep guns out of the wrong hands after MANY gun-involved incidents?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:18 AM
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Holy ****. What kind of sick wacko would go and shoot a bunch of innocent children? R.I.P. to the victims and thoughts and prayers to their families.

This is worse than Columbine!
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:22 AM
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My thoughts and prayers are out to all these families that were involved. Not only is the fallout from this going to be massive, there's going to be oodles of debates regarding gun control in the US.

Not only that, but how many of these massacres happened in recent memory? How many more will have to occur before something happens?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryoutarou View Post
I'm not so sure about that, a desperate person will go through whatever means necessary. Heavier gun control or not, there's always going to be illegal gun activity. If someone wants will to kill so many small children, something like procuring a gun legally isn't very likely to stop them. If someone's just angry? Yeah, then it'll do some good, but if you're as far gone as seeing nothing wrong with killing so many children, you'll find a way.
I don't want to be the ones to explain to the victim's families that we just care more about our right to have a machine gun than the lives of their children. And I don't want to be the one explaining that we don't want to "bother" with stricter gun laws since it won't stop all shootings everywhere forever, although it would have stopped their child/brother/cousin/best friend from being murdered.

Do you want to explain to them then?
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  #16    
Old December 14th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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The news is saying that shooter has been identified and that his mother was a teacher at the school. Also, it seems the suspect's father was found dead in his home in New Jersey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
But the issue is do you think someone with the capability to do this is going to be hindered by something like a gun law?
Yes, I do. Not every time, but it will make massacres like this less likely. If they, the people who might do things like this, have to spend more time or effort trying to get a gun it gives them more time to calm down or others more time to stop them or calm them down. It's a roadblock to their ability to do harm.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:34 AM
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The news is saying that shooter has been identified and that his mother was a teacher at the school. Also, it seems the suspect's father was found dead in his home in New Jersey.
That makes this whole case even more messed up. My God.

Edit: He killed his mother while he was there as well. More ****ery. I just can't with this anymore. Children and his parents? Just...there are no words.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
Gun control won't do anything. If you're in a situation like this, you'd rather have a civilian armed and protect you than wait for police.

S
Yes it will. Notice how almost all the shooters involved in these killings are either mentally deranged or unstable in some way? Harsher and stricter guidelines on purchasing firearms would prevent people like them from buying them - the easiest way to get a firearm. Background checks and mental health evaluations are designed to do just that. Less psychos with easy access to weapons, less killings. Simple arithmetic.

It's not like you can just walk out on the street and get one off the black market from some shady guy in a trench coat. That's simply not true.



Anyways, the shooter used semi-automatic hand guns with extended magazines. Firearms that are designed for military and paramilitary use only. Are you a soldier or in the FBI? No? Then you have no need to own one.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:45 AM
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Yadda yadda yadda gun control in Europe and Canada yadda yadda yadda gun crime rates a thousand times lower yadda yadda yadda trying to kill someone with a knife is much harder and all those things we people who feel in danger when we are surrounded by guns -not safer in any way- repeat every 4 months when this happens.

It's true that if there is a guy armed around they can deal with the criminal but it's also very true that if a guy with mental problems, who suddenly decides that life sucks and wants to kill someone, has to go through a very complex and expensive illegal process to buy a gun, he's muuuuuch less likely to end up acquiring the gun, and it will take a longer time in which they can make a mistake and be caught or just get over their depression and think twice. If you give them a 100% legal gun the very second they want to kill, chances are someone is going to die.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:46 AM
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The common thing in most of these shootings though is always, "I never expected this, he always seemed okay, etc." from the shooter's friends/families/acquaintances. That aside, it's not as difficult to buy parts and build the gun yourself, borrow someone's, etc. As long as there are guns, there will be gun crimes. This person is murdering children and his parents, he won't give two hoots how hard it is to get a gun. He's going to get it if he wants, he has nothing to lose. The delay in acquiring a gun isn't going to give them time to just 'get over it' which isn't how mental disorders work, lol.

I still stand by my aforementioned statistic that if a civilian, or in this case a schoolteacher or security guard, were armed then this tragedy could have been stopped early in its tracks.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:47 AM
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I don't want to be the ones to explain to the victim's families that we just care more about our right to have a machine gun than the lives of their children. And I don't want to be the one explaining that we don't want to "bother" with stricter gun laws since it won't stop all shootings everywhere forever, although it would have stopped their child/brother/cousin/best friend from being murdered.

Do you want to explain to them then?
That correlation makes no sense. I would never stop anyone from trying to enact harsher gun control laws, I just think they won't stop much of any crime in a country this size, that doesn't mean I'll be happy to tell people they've lost their loved ones and frankly, it's insulting for you to believe that nonsense is true. My own brother was held up at gun point by a criminal with multiple convictions, a criminal who was out on the streets less the two weeks after he robbed my brother feet from our doorsteps. If an individual is intent on working outside of the law, they will find a way to procure weapons. I find it hard to believe that many of these shooters would have been stopped by tighter gun control laws - they would have just found other means of getting what they need. I'm not focusing on a random guy who has a small grudge and threatens someone with a gun, but someone with the wherewithal to even think about attempting something like this. We need to work on keeping criminals off the streets and getting people the help they need first and foremost.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
The common thing in most of these shootings though is always, "I never expected this, he always seemed okay, etc." from the shooter's friends/families/acquaintances. That aside, it's not as difficult to buy parts and build the gun yourself, borrow someone's, etc. As long as there are guns, there will be gun crimes. This person is murdering children and his parents, he won't give two hoots how hard it is to get a gun. He's going to get it if he wants, he has nothing to lose. The delay in acquiring a gun isn't going to give them time to just 'get over it' which isn't how mental disorders work, lol.

I still stand by my aforementioned statistic that if a civilian, or in this case a schoolteacher or security guard, were armed then this tragedy could have been stopped early in its tracks.
Give two men a gun and someone might get shot.

Give zero guns to either and chances are nobody is going to get shot.

And again, criminals can get their hands on weapons if they try badly enough -definitely not as many-. But if you sell them in Wal-Mart, you are begging for this to happen.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:50 AM
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This is just so horrible D: 27 children and the shooter's parent dead. I just have no words, it's horrifying. What kind of horrible person would do this, they're little kids ;_; and it appears this is the case now, he shot his own mother and it appears his father too, that's just sick.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:50 AM
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That makes this whole case even more messed up. My God.

Edit: He killed his mother while he was there as well. More ****ery. I just can't with this anymore. Children and his parents? Just...there are no words.
Okay, now the news is taking back what it said about his father. No one outside of the school was killed.

Also, I think they've said there are still at least 3 people in hospital.

We're also going to get some words from the president within the next half-hour or so. I would hope he's say something about the need to talk about gun control, but it's always "not the time" to talk about that.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:55 AM
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I still stand by my aforementioned statistic that if a civilian, or in this case a schoolteacher or security guard, were armed then this tragedy could have been stopped early in its tracks.
I hate to say it, but even teachers can turn out to be the crazy ones...so I don't think giving teachers a weapon would really help. It wouldn't make the situation more controlled, it would possibly make it more...I hate to say common, but that's really the only word I can think of here.
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