The PokéCommunity Forums  

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > General Pokémon Gaming Discussions > Pokémon Gaming Central
Register New Account FAQ/Rules Chat Blogs Mark Forums Read

Notices

Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.



Reply
Thread Tools
  #1  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:16 AM
Sarah Morgan's Avatar
Sarah Morgan
Mime Jr.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Gender: Female
From R/B/Y(G) to B/W2 we've started an epic journey with either a Grass Pokemon, A Fire Pokemon, or a Water Pokemon. I want to know why? I understand that there is a certain balance with those three types of pokemon; but surely Dark, Ghost and Psychic could work just as well. What makes Fire, Grass and Water so special?

Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:24 AM
Toujours's Avatar
Toujours
Howling Poros
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Nature: Sassy
It has to go both ways, which is why F/G/W is different

Fire is strong against Grass is strong against Water is strong against Fire.
Fire resists Grass resists Water resists Fire.

Dark/Ghost/Psychic works one way, but not the other, as Dark is immune to Psychic. There are a few that work both ways that aren't Fire/Water/Grass though:

Rock/Fighting/Flying
Rock/Fire/Steel
Grass/Poison/Ground

Flying would have to have a double type because of how Flying-types work, which would mess up the starter triangle, and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
__________________
Feed me Poro Snax!
Mod | Pair | MAL | Theme
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Hikari10's Avatar
Hikari10
Attentione il est Micallef
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Nature: Quirky
I mostly agree with what Toujours said, there aren't that many good elemental triangles outside of Grass/Fire/Water, the reason why G/F/W worked for starters was because it's like a rock-paper-scissors.

Fire > Grass
Water > Fire
Grass > Water

See how it works?

The reason for an elemental triangle to occur is one of the three types being super-effective against one, and resisted by the other type.

I know Dark/Fighting/Psychic would have made an interesting starter type, but Dark is immune to Psychic and thus it's not an elemental triangle.
__________________

forget your troubles and just get happy
chase all your cares away say hallelujah
get ready for the judgement day


PC SupporterTumblrPC Battle ServerEver Grande City
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:33 AM
Sarah Morgan's Avatar
Sarah Morgan
Mime Jr.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Gender: Female
Yeah, once I read his explanation it all kind of made sense, I must not use enough psychic types because I didn't know Dark types were immune.

Starting with different types would be awesome.
__________________
Pokemon White 2: Sarah
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Sassy Milkshake's Avatar
Sassy Milkshake
It's ok to cry.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Nature: Sassy
I'd think Hikari's use of the phrase "elemental triangle" does a lot to explain it too. Water, fire and grass(earth sort of) are main elements, the other being air. /lastairbenderlol

These are essentially what the real world boils down to, thus it seems appropriate that they'd be represented by the starters instead of something obscure such as psychic/dark/fighting.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 05:51 AM
XanderO's Avatar
XanderO
King Froakums III
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gender: Male
Nature: Hasty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy Milkshake View Post
I'd think Hikari's use of the phrase "elemental triangle" does a lot to explain it too. Water, fire and grass(earth sort of) are main elements, the other being air. /lastairbenderlol

These are essentially what the real world boils down to, thus it seems appropriate that they'd be represented by the starters instead of something obscure such as psychic/dark/fighting.
The triangle you have is the basic elemental triangle from any RPG really. Earth/Air are usually interchangable or Air can be added into with both Fire and Water in some cases. Earth does the same thing. A lot of the times its the three base colors, Red, Blue and Green which are found in many video games as well. Squares are common as triangles when the four are present, but two of the four are always interchanged.

Most common is Fire/Water/Wind(Air). That's really the reason its used so often. In the RPG world its just the basic of the basics.
__________________
Pokemon Black 2
Xander | Male
FC: 4170-2318-4041

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Pinkie-Dawn's Avatar
Pinkie-Dawn
Member #150
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: California
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Quirky
Toujours pretty much hit the nail on this thread, and it's also why they'll never abandon the Grass/Fire/Water starter trio. They could use the Rock/Fighting/Flying trio, but as secondary types for our starters. The Grass/Ground/Poison trio isn't too bad either, but they're only going to use Ground and Poison as secondary types for Fire and Water, which I'll be looking forward to.
__________________

Credit goes to SylphyStarr for the sig
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 07:15 PM
Kanto_Johto's Avatar
Kanto_Johto
Never glimpse the truth
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: A Silver Sun
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Bold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
Rock/Fighting/Flying
Rock/Fire/Steel
Grass/Poison/Ground

Flying would have to have a double type because of how Flying-types work, which would mess up the starter triangle, and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
"Because of how Flying types work" - Who's to say Game Freak don't have plans abolish this tradition? We've had one pure Flying type already (albeit a legendary, but still).

Sure, the Steel type is overpowered with resistances, but so what? If you decide to choose the Rock type, your rival will be extra challenging. And if you decide to choose the Steel type for yourself, Fighting or Fire type Pokemon could be included amongst the first wild Pokemon you encounter.

As for Ground, I don't think one immunity is enough of a reason to reject it as a starter possibility, especially considering that electric types aren't usually encountered until later on in the game.

Obviously Fire/Water/Grass is the most suitable triangle, but it wouldn't be impossible for Game Freak to consider another.
__________________
Arrive without traveling
See all without looking
Do all without doing
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 07:36 PM
LilJz1234's Avatar
LilJz1234
Katy Cat
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Nature: Quiet
It's probably the easiest way for the newer players to figure out how the game works.
Fire > Grass
Grass > Water
Water > Fire

Imagine if they started with the other types, it would be more difficult to properly understand the game mechanics instead of fire, grass and water.

That's my reasoning :C
__________________
♥Plusle bro of synerjee♥ | ♥Pink Mommy & Hikari10♥
|HeartGold FC | Diamond FC | White FC|
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread December 17th, 2012, 11:44 PM
Toujours's Avatar
Toujours
Howling Poros
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Nature: Sassy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto_Johto View Post
"Because of how Flying types work" - Who's to say Game Freak don't have plans abolish this tradition? We've had one pure Flying type already (albeit a legendary, but still).
Once we have some kind of proof that Game Freak is planning to act otherwise, there's no reason to assume they would have a pure Flying-type Pokemon, much less a starter. Just because one legendary was pure Flying doesn't mean that it's something Game Freak has a pattern of doing.

Quote:
Sure, the Steel type is overpowered with resistances, but so what? If you decide to choose the Rock type, your rival will be extra challenging. And if you decide to choose the Steel type for yourself, Fighting or Fire type Pokemon could be included amongst the first wild Pokemon you encounter.
There's a reason why the starter Pokemon, while different enough to provide a different playthrough of the game, are somewhat similar in strength. That's not a coincidence.

Quote:
As for Ground, I don't think one immunity is enough of a reason to reject it as a starter possibility, especially considering that electric types aren't usually encountered until later on in the game.
I agree, that's a weak argument, but it's the only reason I can think of as to why Game Freak wouldn't use that triangle. As far as when electric-types are found, I had a Mareep before the second gym leader in W2. You can get a Shinx in the second route in D/P/Pt. In G/S/HG/SS, there's a Mareep on the route just after the first gym. There are more games where an Electric-type is available before the third gym than not.

In addition, in two regions (Kanto and Hoenn) one of the first 3 Gym Leader is Electric-type. If you go up to the first half of gym leaders, there are 3 regions. It does seem logical that they wouldn't want to start you with a Pokemon that is immune to a Gym Leader entirely.

Quote:
Obviously Fire/Water/Grass is the most suitable triangle, but it wouldn't be impossible for Game Freak to consider another.
Not impossible but unlikely.
__________________
Feed me Poro Snax!
Mod | Pair | MAL | Theme
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread December 18th, 2012, 12:23 AM
Keiran777's Avatar
Keiran777
Meet Me In Montauk
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Careful
Send a message via Skype™ to Keiran777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
Empoleon is Steel/Water, which is a really strong typing, but it doesn't stick out as an OP starter. (Or do you mean a pure steel stage 1 starter? >.>)

I think LilJz1234 has the best theory about starter types. Each Pokemon guide I've bought since Gen 1 has come with a section about building teams depending on your starter. I think it's all about simplicity for new players.

But regardless, it would be nice to see some variety in secondary typing and ability. I'm still holding out for a part Dragon starter (Charizard?:'( ).
__________________
Little solace comes to those who grievethisisnotforyouthisisnotforyouthisthis is not for you
thisisnowhen thoughts keep driftingthisisnotforyouthisisnot
thisisnotfas walls keep shiftingthisisnotforyouthisisnotfor
thisisnotforyouand this great blue world of oursthisisnotforyouthisisnotforyouthisis
seems a house of leavesthisisnotforyoumoments before the wind.
There isn't much that I feel I need, a solid soul and the blood I bleed.
Wandering Allowed, Wondering Aloud
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread December 18th, 2012, 01:52 AM
Kanto_Johto's Avatar
Kanto_Johto
Never glimpse the truth
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: A Silver Sun
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Bold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
As far as when electric-types are found, I had a Mareep before the second gym leader in W2. You can get a Shinx in the second route in D/P/Pt. In G/S/HG/SS, there's a Mareep on the route just after the first gym. There are more games where an Electric-type is available before the third gym than not.

In addition, in two regions (Kanto and Hoenn) one of the first 3 Gym Leader is Electric-type. If you go up to the first half of gym leaders, there are 3 regions. It does seem logical that they wouldn't want to start you with a Pokemon that is immune to a Gym Leader entirely.
I was referring more to the fact that you don't really encounter trainers with Electric types until later on in the game (around the 3rd badge), and by this point it is usually possibly to obtain a ground type.

For example, in Kanto, all you have to do is take a trip to Diglett's Cave, catch a Diglett/Dugtrio and you're set. Or you may already have a Nidoking/Nidoqueen in your arsenal. And in the case of Hoenn, if you chose Mudkip, it will surely have evolved before you get to Mauville Gym. And Marshtomp itself is part of a starter line.
__________________
Arrive without traveling
See all without looking
Do all without doing
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread December 21st, 2012, 12:01 AM
Heracles4
Togepi
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Gender: Male
Ice/flying/fighting Character limit
__________________
Arceus Drops ~ Remembering







I don't calculate stat values, I don't breed my way to perfection, and I don't care about natures. I catch my Pokemon the way they are, and treat them like individuals instead of brainless drones. If you use this philosophy, copy & paste this into your signature.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread December 21st, 2012, 01:15 AM
Hikari10's Avatar
Hikari10
Attentione il est Micallef
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Nature: Quirky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles4 View Post
Ice/flying/fighting Character limit
Unfortunately that won't work cos the only thing Ice is resisted by is Ice itself.

One type needs to be super-effective against one and resist the other to make an elemental triangle.
__________________

forget your troubles and just get happy
chase all your cares away say hallelujah
get ready for the judgement day


PC SupporterTumblrPC Battle ServerEver Grande City
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread December 21st, 2012, 06:45 PM
Arlo's Avatar
Arlo
Psyduck
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilJz1234 View Post
It's probably the easiest way for the newer players to figure out how the game works.
Fire > Grass
Grass > Water
Water > Fire

Imagine if they started with the other types, it would be more difficult to properly understand the game mechanics instead of fire, grass and water.

That's my reasoning :C
That's my reasoning too. It's not so much that Grass/Fire/Water is the only workable triangle (it's not) or the best (that's debatable) - it's that it's the easiest for newcomers to the games to grasp, and that's ultimately the main point. It's to ease new players into the whole concept of types being strong to some types and weak to others, and it works quite well for that, since it's a triangle that makes sense to pretty much anyone.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are UTC. The time now is 01:40 AM.


Style by Perdition Haze, artwork by Sa-Dui.
Like our Facebook Page Follow us on TwitterMessage Board Statistics | © 2002 - 2013 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to Pokémon USA, Inc. and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company, Pokémon USA, Inc., The Pokémon Company International, or Wizards of the Coast. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2013 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User posts belong to the user.