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Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.

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  #1    
Old December 16th, 2012 (09:16 PM).
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Sarah Morgan
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From R/B/Y(G) to B/W2 we've started an epic journey with either a Grass Pokemon, A Fire Pokemon, or a Water Pokemon. I want to know why? I understand that there is a certain balance with those three types of pokemon; but surely Dark, Ghost and Psychic could work just as well. What makes Fire, Grass and Water so special?

Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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  #2    
Old December 16th, 2012 (09:24 PM).
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It has to go both ways, which is why F/G/W is different

Fire is strong against Grass is strong against Water is strong against Fire.
Fire resists Grass resists Water resists Fire.

Dark/Ghost/Psychic works one way, but not the other, as Dark is immune to Psychic. There are a few that work both ways that aren't Fire/Water/Grass though:

Rock/Fighting/Flying
Rock/Fire/Steel
Grass/Poison/Ground

Flying would have to have a double type because of how Flying-types work, which would mess up the starter triangle, and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
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  #3    
Old December 16th, 2012 (09:29 PM).
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I mostly agree with what Toujours said, there aren't that many good elemental triangles outside of Grass/Fire/Water, the reason why G/F/W worked for starters was because it's like a rock-paper-scissors.

Fire > Grass
Water > Fire
Grass > Water

See how it works?

The reason for an elemental triangle to occur is one of the three types being super-effective against one, and resisted by the other type.

I know Dark/Fighting/Psychic would have made an interesting starter type, but Dark is immune to Psychic and thus it's not an elemental triangle.
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Old December 16th, 2012 (09:33 PM).
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Yeah, once I read his explanation it all kind of made sense, I must not use enough psychic types because I didn't know Dark types were immune.

Starting with different types would be awesome.
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  #5    
Old December 16th, 2012 (09:37 PM).
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I'd think Hikari's use of the phrase "elemental triangle" does a lot to explain it too. Water, fire and grass(earth sort of) are main elements, the other being air. /lastairbenderlol

These are essentially what the real world boils down to, thus it seems appropriate that they'd be represented by the starters instead of something obscure such as psychic/dark/fighting.
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  #6    
Old December 16th, 2012 (09:51 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy Milkshake View Post
I'd think Hikari's use of the phrase "elemental triangle" does a lot to explain it too. Water, fire and grass(earth sort of) are main elements, the other being air. /lastairbenderlol

These are essentially what the real world boils down to, thus it seems appropriate that they'd be represented by the starters instead of something obscure such as psychic/dark/fighting.
The triangle you have is the basic elemental triangle from any RPG really. Earth/Air are usually interchangable or Air can be added into with both Fire and Water in some cases. Earth does the same thing. A lot of the times its the three base colors, Red, Blue and Green which are found in many video games as well. Squares are common as triangles when the four are present, but two of the four are always interchanged.

Most common is Fire/Water/Wind(Air). That's really the reason its used so often. In the RPG world its just the basic of the basics.
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  #7    
Old December 17th, 2012 (10:12 AM).
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Toujours pretty much hit the nail on this thread, and it's also why they'll never abandon the Grass/Fire/Water starter trio. They could use the Rock/Fighting/Flying trio, but as secondary types for our starters. The Grass/Ground/Poison trio isn't too bad either, but they're only going to use Ground and Poison as secondary types for Fire and Water, which I'll be looking forward to.
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  #8    
Old December 17th, 2012 (11:15 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
Rock/Fighting/Flying
Rock/Fire/Steel
Grass/Poison/Ground

Flying would have to have a double type because of how Flying-types work, which would mess up the starter triangle, and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
"Because of how Flying types work" - Who's to say Game Freak don't have plans abolish this tradition? We've had one pure Flying type already (albeit a legendary, but still).

Sure, the Steel type is overpowered with resistances, but so what? If you decide to choose the Rock type, your rival will be extra challenging. And if you decide to choose the Steel type for yourself, Fighting or Fire type Pokemon could be included amongst the first wild Pokemon you encounter.

As for Ground, I don't think one immunity is enough of a reason to reject it as a starter possibility, especially considering that electric types aren't usually encountered until later on in the game.

Obviously Fire/Water/Grass is the most suitable triangle, but it wouldn't be impossible for Game Freak to consider another.
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  #9    
Old December 17th, 2012 (11:36 AM).
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It's probably the easiest way for the newer players to figure out how the game works.
Fire > Grass
Grass > Water
Water > Fire

Imagine if they started with the other types, it would be more difficult to properly understand the game mechanics instead of fire, grass and water.

That's my reasoning :C
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  #10    
Old December 17th, 2012 (03:44 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto_Johto View Post
"Because of how Flying types work" - Who's to say Game Freak don't have plans abolish this tradition? We've had one pure Flying type already (albeit a legendary, but still).
Once we have some kind of proof that Game Freak is planning to act otherwise, there's no reason to assume they would have a pure Flying-type Pokemon, much less a starter. Just because one legendary was pure Flying doesn't mean that it's something Game Freak has a pattern of doing.

Quote:
Sure, the Steel type is overpowered with resistances, but so what? If you decide to choose the Rock type, your rival will be extra challenging. And if you decide to choose the Steel type for yourself, Fighting or Fire type Pokemon could be included amongst the first wild Pokemon you encounter.
There's a reason why the starter Pokemon, while different enough to provide a different playthrough of the game, are somewhat similar in strength. That's not a coincidence.

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As for Ground, I don't think one immunity is enough of a reason to reject it as a starter possibility, especially considering that electric types aren't usually encountered until later on in the game.
I agree, that's a weak argument, but it's the only reason I can think of as to why Game Freak wouldn't use that triangle. As far as when electric-types are found, I had a Mareep before the second gym leader in W2. You can get a Shinx in the second route in D/P/Pt. In G/S/HG/SS, there's a Mareep on the route just after the first gym. There are more games where an Electric-type is available before the third gym than not.

In addition, in two regions (Kanto and Hoenn) one of the first 3 Gym Leader is Electric-type. If you go up to the first half of gym leaders, there are 3 regions. It does seem logical that they wouldn't want to start you with a Pokemon that is immune to a Gym Leader entirely.

Quote:
Obviously Fire/Water/Grass is the most suitable triangle, but it wouldn't be impossible for Game Freak to consider another.
Not impossible but unlikely.
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  #11    
Old December 17th, 2012 (04:23 PM).
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Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
and Steel as a starter isn't viable since it's so OP with resistances. I would guess with the last one that they wouldn't want a starter with an immunity maybe? Like Ground?
Empoleon is Steel/Water, which is a really strong typing, but it doesn't stick out as an OP starter. (Or do you mean a pure steel stage 1 starter? >.>)

I think LilJz1234 has the best theory about starter types. Each Pokemon guide I've bought since Gen 1 has come with a section about building teams depending on your starter. I think it's all about simplicity for new players.

But regardless, it would be nice to see some variety in secondary typing and ability. I'm still holding out for a part Dragon starter (Charizard?:'( ).
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  #12    
Old December 17th, 2012 (05:52 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
As far as when electric-types are found, I had a Mareep before the second gym leader in W2. You can get a Shinx in the second route in D/P/Pt. In G/S/HG/SS, there's a Mareep on the route just after the first gym. There are more games where an Electric-type is available before the third gym than not.

In addition, in two regions (Kanto and Hoenn) one of the first 3 Gym Leader is Electric-type. If you go up to the first half of gym leaders, there are 3 regions. It does seem logical that they wouldn't want to start you with a Pokemon that is immune to a Gym Leader entirely.
I was referring more to the fact that you don't really encounter trainers with Electric types until later on in the game (around the 3rd badge), and by this point it is usually possibly to obtain a ground type.

For example, in Kanto, all you have to do is take a trip to Diglett's Cave, catch a Diglett/Dugtrio and you're set. Or you may already have a Nidoking/Nidoqueen in your arsenal. And in the case of Hoenn, if you chose Mudkip, it will surely have evolved before you get to Mauville Gym. And Marshtomp itself is part of a starter line.
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  #13    
Old December 20th, 2012 (04:01 PM).
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Ice/flying/fighting Character limit
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  #14    
Old December 20th, 2012 (05:15 PM).
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Ice/flying/fighting Character limit
Unfortunately that won't work cos the only thing Ice is resisted by is Ice itself.

One type needs to be super-effective against one and resist the other to make an elemental triangle.
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  #15    
Old December 21st, 2012 (10:45 AM).
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Originally Posted by LilJz1234 View Post
It's probably the easiest way for the newer players to figure out how the game works.
Fire > Grass
Grass > Water
Water > Fire

Imagine if they started with the other types, it would be more difficult to properly understand the game mechanics instead of fire, grass and water.

That's my reasoning :C
That's my reasoning too. It's not so much that Grass/Fire/Water is the only workable triangle (it's not) or the best (that's debatable) - it's that it's the easiest for newcomers to the games to grasp, and that's ultimately the main point. It's to ease new players into the whole concept of types being strong to some types and weak to others, and it works quite well for that, since it's a triangle that makes sense to pretty much anyone.
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