[Discussion] The Food Industry

[Scarf]

It's no secret that lots of our food is processed, engineered, or otherwise created with the help of labs and scientists. More and more people are growing overweight, developing diabetes and other health problems. Connection? I think so. What about you?

Are we not really as bad off as some people say? Should we live in a "buyer beware" system that puts the burden on the individual to know what they're eating and stay healthy? Do we need more transparency? More nutritional education? Is the answer to the obesity problem a matter of exercise rather than diet? Anything else you want to bring up?

[Shiny Celebi]

I think it's mostly up to people to choose what they put in their bodies, but I feel food items need to be labeled correctly in order for people to make the right food choices. If people want to eat nothing except potato chips its up to them to make the choice to eat healthy. The food industry puts out food products that aren't nessesariy heathy, in fact I eat some of these foods, like instant noodles, which contain a ton of salt and other stuff and has little nutricion but I enjoy it. I mostly try to eat healty foods. Its difficult to control what goes in food unless you are making it all from scratch, which is a lot of work and fresh ingredients are expensive. Most people depend on at least some processed food nowadays. I think the information about what is healthy and not needs to be put out there but people also need to seek it out and do research. People need to want to eat healthy food, know where that is and need to be able to get it and afford it. As for Obesity, its not all the food industry's fault or people's. Some people have health conditions that lead them to becoming obese, if they can help it, however, people need to want to be healthy, eat right and exercise.

[TRIFORCE89]

I don't think the problem is that the food is processed or mass-produced necessarily. But the amount of unnecessary sugar and salt (and their strange-sounding derivatives) that are present that are there to lengthen the shelf life and add "flavour" as our North American diets are so saturated with sugar and salt.

At the same time it mostly applies to prepared foods. If you're buying meat or produce there shouldn't be a huge problem

[⊗Slenderman⊗]

I find this subject interesting. There's some pretty scary stuff in food, including petroleum-based dyes and preservatives. Carcinogen candy, anyone?

Apparently the artificial stuff in food can actually cause mental and behavioral problems (the latter being similar to ADHD). A friend of mine can't eat anything modified or artificial because he gets emotional, aggressive, etc. I know from experience that it can really mess with your head.

As for obesity and the like...I'm not really sure. I think people need to stop eating junk and actually exercise. But I'm not exactly a doctor. So that's not really valid. :T

[Livewire]

If you live in a western developed country, then most of your food is garbage. Unless you buy Free trade organic or all natural, then it's essentially processed and laden with all sorts of yummy preservatives and chemical additives. Just look at the U.S. and any old McDonalds. There you go.

[Volcanix769]

I think that people should think before eating those foods so they might be safe and make the right choice. But the companies that processed this should tell the truth and for what they have caused. Like more people are getting overweight be these over the period of years. They should probably do something to remove that weight or manage themselves.

[Rain Dancer]

Overweight, cancers, diabetes, tumors, heart disease, premature aging and death, malnutrition, ect.

Caused in part by poisons as HFCS (High fructose corn syrup), sugar, aspartame (neurological damage), preservatives, pesticides, GMO's or plants producing their own pesticides, soups of antibiotics, pus, growth hormones in cattle, aluminum and barium in the skies by the lovely chemtrails, that sneak into everything including our food and water sources, fast food junk, acrylamide (cancerigenous substance found mainly in potato chips), sucralose and neotame, cousins of aspartame, fluoride in the water (A common and popular poison.) Well, the list is neverending..


Not to mention organically grown and health supplements, as well as most of the variety in health food stores devours your wallet in an instance.. it's hard to avoid all the crap everywhere.

[Squidchan]

Originally Posted by Rain Dancer

Overweight, cancers, diabetes, tumors, heart disease, premature aging and death, malnutrition, ect.

Caused in part by poisons as HFCS (High fructose corn syrup), sugar, aspartame (neurological damage), preservatives, pesticides, GMO's or plants producing their own pesticides, soups of antibiotics, pus, growth hormones in cattle, aluminum and barium in the skies by the lovely chemtrails, that sneak into everything including our food and water sources, fast food junk, acrylamide (cancerigenous substance found mainly in potato chips), sucralose and neotame, cousins of aspartame, fluoride in the water (A common and popular poison.) Well, the list is neverending..


Not to mention organically grown and health supplements, as well as most of the variety in health food stores devours your wallet in an instance.. it's hard to avoid all the crap everywhere.

Depending on where you live, fluoride in the water is not dangerous, the levels are monitered to be safe, and its actually beneficial. Otherwise they wouldn't add it.

There is a lot of media hype and scare tactics in regards to food and water... However I do believe humans as a race have lost the skills of cooking and farming, besides those that do it for a living. Just imagine if you had your very own vegetable garden, and your neighbour had a small chicken farm, the neighbour next to him had a dozen cows, as did the neighbour 5 doors down... Others in your area, or even in the next area had other things that you needed. Food items should not have added preservatives or be processed, considering we have better preserving method than they did hundreds of years ago... I am inclined to blame the ever increasing population, and as a result the lack of room.

[Rain Dancer]

It's actually a belief, that fluoride is beneficial, according to newer studies. I was surprised, look it up. It's very recent.

But still, look at it's other uses. Rat poison, chemical waste. Causes fluorosis, nerve damage, pineal calcification, it piles up inside you.. It may be a small dose, but in the long term, say, how many times you take a bath, drink water, for a year? :X

Luckily there's Vitamin D and/or coconut oil. They work better.


Oh and true, about the loss of skills. Convenience it seems.
We could group up and make community gardens and grow our own crops, as easily as in our backyards. Solves alot of things. Still, ocupations to earn a living would clash with this, as well as everyday commodities like TV.

[Squidchan]

I barely know what to believe in studies these days, I take everything with a grain of salt, however I have never really heard of anyone dying because they drank too much tap water, though I tend to believe the WHO in this case, but everyone can be proven wrong.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../fluorosis/en/

I just think sometimes how times used to be more simple, everyone knew how to either cook or farm, there was no need for fast, processed, convenient food. However, in regards to the original topic, I believe that if you are really serious about being healthy, you choose your lifestyle and you choose to be obese (unless you have a condition that prevents you from being able to exercise, or you are unable to afford healthy food).

[Rain Dancer]

In the end it all comes down to choice, yes

Choice is limited, it's the system we're in.. But the more informed the people are, the more they can change it with their choices. It's hard to live healthy with the monopoly Monsanto and other agri-giants have on the industry. Makes one wish we were living in the simpler times as you say.

Both sides have their pros and cons. You had to slave off and dedicate time to prepare food before, now, it's more standarized and convenient, faster, but at the cost of making you dependent on it, and slowly dumbing your health down with the by-products of the automation process, like pesticides.


Being healthy is priceless, though, and worth the setbacks, I add.

[Yoshikkko]

People who are overweight eat too much. It doesn't matter what you eat as long as you don't eat too much of it, and if you do, it's important you try to lose the excess calories. You can eat a hamburger everyday and lose weight, or eat 50 fruits a day and gain weight. It's all about the amount of calories you take in, in relation to the amount you lose. The problem is not necessarily the food either - we have the choice to buy natural products instead of processed, we have that choice when we are in the store. The problem is that food isn't as scarce as it used to be and instead it's become too available, but it's still in our genetics to eat as much as we can since that is how we used to survive. There is an abundance of food, but we don't have to work for it anymore like we used to, so the problem lies with us. It's pure laziness. Instead of buying natural products and making your own pasta sauce, you can just buy it canned and that's what people do, thus I firmly believe that being overweight is a choice. I know there are exceptions, but most of the time it's because people do not make a healthy choice when they can.

Also, I don't believe in diets. Some are good, but most of them teach you to eat less and that is not a good way to lose weight. As a matter of fact, eating less only slows your metabolism and you end up gaining weight faster than you used to. The key to losing weight is of course eating healthy, but mostly eating more often a day, and in smaller portions. And a little walk of 30 minutes a day is enough to keep it balanced.

[AzaleaLightning]

The problem with the whole 'people's choice' argument is that not a lot of people know just what they are putting into their bodies. All produce that isn't labeled as organic is genetically engineered and very, very likely to have had pesticides used on it. The problem with this is organic produce is more expensive because it's so difficult for farmers to get it tested to be correctly labeled, and it's a more demanding process, which makes the genetically engineered, pesticide-ridden produce more easily available at a much cheaper price.

The only way to get real produce that you don't have to doubt at all is to grow it yourself, and realistically a very small minority of the population wants to do it, let alone has the motivation for it.

That's just for produce, going into other dietary staples would make this post huge...

Yoshikkko nailed it about losing weight, but I think diets can help if they focus on toxicity cleansing or strength training.

[Luck]

People are just too paranoid and have this common misconception that something natural is inherently better than something artificial. It's understandable to an extent, but at some point they have to realize that the chemicals used in Unit 731 aren't the same chemicals found in your tomatoes and lettuce.

And there's plenty of transparency enough as is. There's a nutrition label, and it's not particularly hard to find. If you don't look at it, then you have only yourself to blame.

[brane]

I watched something on television about this topic a while back. It was shocking when they went through all these chemicals and additives in our foods that keep them longer-lasting or allow them to be produced the way they are. I can't pick exactly what was what, but I do remember them saying that most foods have chemicals in them that are identifiable by the code letter E (example being E334 etc). Virtually all of these chemicals are actually harmful to us in large doses, but I guess currently they're only doing a whimsical amount of damage (unless you're chowing down on all the bad foods).

I will always have this opinion, and I encourage everyone else, but growing your own vegetables and fruit and making whatever else you can naturally is infinitely better and worth it then constantly buying something that is being processed. I still remember a breakfast I had on a farm a few months back (we were staying there) and the food was unbelievable for something as simple as potato salad, tomatoes, home-made toast and eggs and bacon (from the farm). I love the food we grow, and it really makes me regret all those years spent eating processed food.

[Scarf]

I would personally like to have my own garden, but as I have no yard space I've nowhere to grow anything. It's kind of funny (but not actually) that the people who are most in need of healthy food, that being the poorest people who can only afford fast food and similar stuff, probably don't have space to grow their own food.

Community gardens would be a great thing to help this, that is, if you could get people to actually feel like they're part of a community.

[twocows]

Originally Posted by Scarf

It's no secret that lots of our food is processed, engineered, or otherwise created with the help of labs and scientists. More and more people are growing overweight, developing diabetes and other health problems. Connection? I think so. What about you?

Medicine also happens to be created with the help of labs and scientists, and people are using more of that than they used to, too. I suppose next you'll be telling me that medicine causes obesity? The problem is that people aren't eating a balanced and nutritious diet, not that their food isn't "100% all natural." That doesn't matter in the slightest.

Are we not really as bad off as some people say? Should we live in a "buyer beware" system that puts the burden on the individual to know what they're eating and stay healthy? Do we need more transparency? More nutritional education? Is the answer to the obesity problem a matter of exercise rather than diet? Anything else you want to bring up?

Educating people on nutrition is precisely the solution, and the inanity of your first paragraph actually makes me surprised that you'd suggest it. People should be educated on what sorts of foods available to them at local stores are healthy or unhealthy and in what portions they should eat them. They should be educated on the role of exercise and how it affects weight and overall health. And then, they should be left to their own designs; if they choose to eat unhealthy and not get enough exercise, that's their choice to make. I eat a mix of unhealthy and healthy foods and exercise very little. It's my decision to make, I'll probably die a bit early because of it, but that's none of your business.

[Squidchan]

Using medicine a lot more than we used to is slowly becoming harmful to us as well, believe it or not. The most notable example of this is antibiotics. The more we use, the more resistant bacteria becomes, until eventually it no longer works and we have no defence against it. But that's another topic altogether.

The reason why people as a whole care about obesity is because of the health problems that go along with it. It costs nations millions of dollars in health care to look after people that are obese and unhealthy because of it. Where does this money come from? Taxpayers. Money that could be beneficial in other areas is being used for this, and that does make it other people's business.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by twocows

Medicine also happens to be created with the help of labs and scientists, and people are using more of that than they used to, too. I suppose next you'll be telling me that medicine causes obesity? The problem is that people aren't eating a balanced and nutritious diet, not that their food isn't "100% all natural." That doesn't matter in the slightest.

Processed sugar (not to mention salt, and fat) is addictive in a way that natural sugar isn't. It's not a stretch to say that processed foods, by which I mean ones that contain these non-natural fats and sugars, are contributing to people being overweight because they make us want to eat those foods more than we should. It really is more of an addiction than anything else that is the issue with processed foods.

Obviously medicine is different, starting with the fact that we consume a much greater volume of food than we do medicine.

Originally Posted by twocows

Educating people on nutrition is precisely the solution, and the inanity of your first paragraph actually makes me surprised that you'd suggest it. People should be educated on what sorts of foods available to them at local stores are healthy or unhealthy and in what portions they should eat them. They should be educated on the role of exercise and how it affects weight and overall health. And then, they should be left to their own designs; if they choose to eat unhealthy and not get enough exercise, that's their choice to make. I eat a mix of unhealthy and healthy foods and exercise very little. It's my decision to make, I'll probably die a bit early because of it, but that's none of your business.

Would you then be in favor of more food labeling laws so that people can know what they are getting when they buy food? And what would you suggest be done about the so-called "food deserts" where people have no ready access to healthy foods?

[twocows]

Originally Posted by Scarf

Processed sugar (not to mention salt, and fat) is addictive in a way that natural sugar isn't.

Do you have a credible source for that (as in a peer-reviewed study published in a noteworthy journal of science)? I've never heard that before, not even from the organic foods crowd.

Obviously medicine is different, starting with the fact that we consume a much greater volume of food than we do medicine.

The point is that being engineered has little to do with whether it is dangerous or not. But if there is credibility to your claim that some of those processed ingredients are addictive, that would be something I believe should be printed on the box, much in the same way tobacco comes with a surgeon's general warning.

Would you then be in favor of more food labeling laws so that people can know what they are getting when they buy food?

Foods are already labelled like that. I can go into my cupboard and look at any particular store-bought item and there will be an ingredients list.

And what would you suggest be done about the so-called "food deserts" where people have no ready access to healthy foods?

I don't think there's much that can be done about it. Form a group to research what, if any, healthy foods are cheaply available to those communities that still provide enough caloric intake. Educate those communities on the findings. Increase funding to charities trying to bring cheaper food to those communities. That's about all I can think of.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by twocows

Do you have a credible source for that (as in a peer-reviewed study published in a noteworthy journal of science)? I've never heard that before, not even from the organic foods crowd.

Here is one study. This is the abstract:

Obesity is a major epidemic, but its causes are still unclear. In this article, we investigate the relation between the intake of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and the development of obesity. We analyzed food consumption patterns by using US Department of Agriculture food consumption tables from 1967 to 2000. The consumption of HFCS increased > 1000% between 1970 and 1990, far exceeding the changes in intake of any other food or food group. HFCS now represents > 40% of caloric sweeteners added to foods and beverages and is the sole caloric sweetener in soft drinks in the United States. Our most conservative estimate of the consumption of HFCS indicates a daily average of 132 kcal for all Americans aged ≥ 2 y, and the top 20% of consumers of caloric sweeteners ingest 316 kcal from HFCS/d. The increased use of HFCS in the United States mirrors the rapid increase in obesity. The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose. Hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis. In addition, unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production. Because insulin and leptin act as key afferent signals in the regulation of food intake and body weight, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased energy intake and weight gain. Furthermore, calorically sweetened beverages may enhance caloric overconsumption. Thus, the increase in consumption of HFCS has a temporal relation to the epidemic of obesity, and the overconsumption of HFCS in calorically sweetened beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity.

[Livewire]

I assumed that the fact that processed foods and artificial sweeteners/sugars, etc were the main culprit in the case of rising Obesity/Diabetes/most heath issues was common knowledge.

[Scarf]

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about things relating to health. I don't claim to be an expert or anything, but I sort of assume I shouldn't assume things about food that I thought. Like the food pyramid, which has this big grain base, and grains are healthy, right? Maybe not so much.

[droomph]

Obesity

food eaten - energy exerted = how much fat you're going to gain.

Laboratory is bad/Organic is good

The only reason we've gotten so far as to invent the computer and discuss these things over the internet is precisely the thing that we're talking about - processed foods. These things make it faster for us to find food, rather than spend all day searching for it. Now, are preservatives necessary? Debatable. But other than the preservatives, new techniques in farming and new ways to turn the raw materials into food are the only reason we have technological advances.

Also, pesticides and preservatives? And whenever we find out a chemical used in insect or freshness control is no longer effective or dangerous, we stop using it. There are safe pesticides and preservatives, and don't obsess over the ones that are - science is working hard every day to take those out, and the government wouldn't be as mean as to give you poisonous chemicals.

Food Addiction based on newfangled forms of sugar

Anything can be addictive - even exercising and being healthy (you've seen these people). All you can do is to help the people who have fallen into the trap of addiction, and educate those who haven't already to work to avoid that trap.

High Fructose Corn Syrup

Let's take a look at HFCS, shall we?

What is the main ingredient in High Fructose Corn Syrup? Fructose.

What is fructose? A sugar.

What do we need to have energy? Sugar.

HFCS alone is not a killer - even if you just indulged in sodas and processed foods with cane sugar, you could get fat and sick if you didn't eat it in balance with your activity and main diet. It's more rather, the misuse of food in a lifestyle that doesn't need activity that kills.

Our civilization is going through a period where our primitive, active bodies are competing with our complex, sedentary civilization, and that's the real killer. Go get a jog, and stop complaining about HFCS.

[CarcharOdin]

Originally Posted by droomph

Obesity

food eaten - energy exerted = how much fat you're going to gain.

Laboratory is bad/Organic is good

The only reason we've gotten so far as to invent the computer and discuss these things over the internet is precisely the thing that we're talking about - processed foods. These things make it faster for us to find food, rather than spend all day searching for it. Now, are preservatives necessary? Debatable. But other than the preservatives, new techniques in farming and new ways to turn the raw materials into food are the only reason we have technological advances.

Also, pesticides and preservatives? And whenever we find out a chemical used in insect or freshness control is no longer effective or dangerous, we stop using it. There are safe pesticides and preservatives, and don't obsess over the ones that are - science is working hard every day to take those out, and the government wouldn't be as mean as to give you poisonous chemicals.

Food Addiction based on newfangled forms of sugar

Anything can be addictive - even exercising and being healthy (you've seen these people). All you can do is to help the people who have fallen into the trap of addiction, and educate those who haven't already to work to avoid that trap.

High Fructose Corn Syrup

Let's take a look at HFCS, shall we?

What is the main ingredient in High Fructose Corn Syrup? Fructose.

What is fructose? A sugar.

What do we need to have energy? Sugar.

HFCS alone is not a killer - even if you just indulged in sodas and processed foods with cane sugar, you could get fat and sick if you didn't eat it in balance with your activity and main diet. It's more rather, the misuse of food in a lifestyle that doesn't need activity that kills.

Our civilization is going through a period where our primitive, active bodies are competing with our complex, sedentary civilization, and that's the real killer. Go get a jog, and stop complaining about HFCS.

I've gained newfound respect for you.

Props.

Originally Posted by Yoshikkko

The key to losing weight is of course eating healthy, but mostly eating more often a day, and in smaller portions.

I've heard that the downside to eating more often is that you're overexerting your digestive system, so I don't really think that's such a good idea. Also, smaller portions don't mean a thing if the stuff you're eating has a high calorie and/or fat count, healthy or not.

I've limited myself to one or two meals a day while keeping calories/fat at a reasonable level most of the time while also doing more physical activity and it's worked wonders for me.

http://www.natural-health-restored.c...meal-plan.html