[Discussion] "Heaven is real"

[Winter's Dew]

Call me gullible, but I believe him.

I'm(possibly) in the minority that thinks he isn't lying, but there's no definite proof out there to say that he's telling the absolute truth, either. In that sense, my response is more or less with droomph's.

Either way, I personally wouldn't be so quick to shoot this down. I'm pretty skeptical myself, but I'm not dismissing it in any manner.

[PiemanFiddy]

Originally Posted by Winter's Dew

Call me gullible, but I believe him.

I'm(possibly) in the minority that thinks he isn't lying, but there's no definite proof out there to say that he's telling the absolute truth, either. In that sense, my response is more or less with droomph's.

Either way, I personally wouldn't be so quick to shoot this down. I'm pretty skeptical myself, but I'm not dismissing it in any manner.

I know this is off-topic, but there was this other news story about a man who is going to jump off of a desert mountain somewhere in Nevada on the day of the 2012 "apocalypse", and he claims that Jesus will reappear and save him from the fall.

Now... go ahead and color me a horrible person, but I would LOVE to see this televised.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

I'm not buying it, simple as that. He may be telling the truth but theres not enough evidince to convince me otherwise. There's so many factors that it could be, out of body experience, dream, lucid dream, etc. In an out of body experience, if handled right you can do or believe what you want even though it's not true. Lucid dreams are the same exact way but it's only with the mind. I really find it hard to believe someone actually seen the afterlife, and this brings science into the equation.

Some people go by science as they're answers for religion, and science hasn't found anything to prove heaven, God, or Jesus exists. Christians only believe in God or Jesus through the bible, belief, or maybe the way they were raised. I myself am a christain but I don't follow religion, and I have my doubs about things but It's all my belief that God of Jesus is real. But, he could be telling the truth or he could be lying. I kinda agree with droomph's theory tho.

[Livewire]

Originally Posted by Insomniac

Could've been tripping, though.

Given that he was in an out of body experience at the time, then yeah, this is probably the most accurate depiction of what he went through. The brain does all sorts of weird things when it thinks its dying.

[outfox]

Don't doubt he had the experience, do doubt he had the experience during the time his cortex was "off," or whatever. I don't get why he assumes is vision didn't occur in the time the functions of his cortex were functioning again. I also don't get why he rejects its uncanny similarity to a DMT experience. Not only is it in the same ball park, it's indistinguishable from just about any DMT report you could randomly select from Erowid. I'm not trying to invalidate the significance of this experience to his spiritual growth, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the evidence this man is using to back the extraordinary claim that consciousness is independent of the brain, was, at best, lazily constructed and tendentiously presented. Maybe I have to read the book, though.

Now I hate to derail the topic, but brief question to those who hold onto the belief that science and religion contradict each other. While they are very different fields, I've only seen religious literalists make claims that go against verifiable evidence. Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. e: forgot to post the question, great job. Must science be seen as something that can "disprove" religion? Why? What does that even mean? I don't feel like making a separate thread. pm me your thoughts.

[Rain Dancer]

Originally Posted by Livewire

Link

Any thoughts? A textbook out of body experience, or divine intervention?

I think the experience might have been real, but not his 'christianized' interpretation.. From my personal experience, OBE's and such are natural when consciousness (Soul/spirit) goes for a stroll outside dense body matter.

Maybe the religion part came when he came back from his experience and then the old self kicked in. Interpretation + christianity + book = profit?

Or there's something more to it, some things he might be hiding.

But I haven't read his book so I don't really know what to say other than speculate.



I feel like my views differ from that of all the professional neurosurgeons who posted in this thread.

[twocows]

He probably came out of the coma in his sleep and had a dream right before he woke up. Clearly not a scientist, as a scientist wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that he'd been to heaven.

[Wandering~Leaf]

Ehh...I'm not saying that guy didn't experience that experience, since it's completely possible. But I don't really know much about him, soo...

But of course, I do believe Heaven and Hell exist, along with God and Jesus Christ. *Shrugs*. Deal.

[Shiny Bidoof]

Originally Posted by Livewire

Given that he was in an out of body experience at the time, then yeah, this is probably the most accurate depiction of what he went through. The brain does all sorts of weird things when it thinks its dying.

A lot of "near-death" experiences have been attributed to DMT. It gives people very "real" dreams that they believe actually happened. Many of them are influenced by religion.